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Will signing abuse papers come back to haunt FLDS?
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Bruce | 7:09 p.m. May 25, 2008
What don't people get?
If there is no higher percentage of abuse going on in the FLDS community than in secular society (which IS the case) than what has happened is an illegal witch hunt. Those responsible for the raid, the lies, and the rights violations must be punished.
Everyone that researches this past what's on tv seems to come to the same conclusion.
Texas better find some more spots to drill oil wells. They are going to need more than they have to pay for this one when it's all said and done.
If there is no higher percentage of abuse going on in the FLDS community than in secular society (which IS the case) than what has happened is an illegal witch hunt. Those responsible for the raid, the lies, and the rights violations must be punished.
Everyone that researches this past what's on tv seems to come to the same conclusion.
Texas better find some more spots to drill oil wells. They are going to need more than they have to pay for this one when it's all said and done.
Anonymous | 7:20 p.m. May 25, 2008
"sosueme" and "its all crazy", I agree with you. The scary
part of this is the precedent that it sets for government agencies to take
children from their parents in groups. Or with no evidence of wrongdoing. I do
not condone polygamy and certainly not forced marriage of anyone, especially
young girls. Any wrongdoing in this community needs to be pursued on an
individual case basis, not as a group.
I hope that the Texas Supreme Court will follow thru with this, and return these children to their families NOW. The CPS of Texas is causing terrible emotional trauma to 400 children. Who will come after them?
I hope that the Texas Supreme Court will follow thru with this, and return these children to their families NOW. The CPS of Texas is causing terrible emotional trauma to 400 children. Who will come after them?
Comments continue below
The Texan | 7:21 p.m. May 25, 2008
Thomas lies plus=FLDS
Mr. Jones,
You're part of the problem. Fix you and there is no problem. I have no faith you're intelligent enough to understand that. No wonder you lost. You left the country rather than do what was right?
Mr. Jones,
You're part of the problem. Fix you and there is no problem. I have no faith you're intelligent enough to understand that. No wonder you lost. You left the country rather than do what was right?
POLYGAMY IS A CRIME | 7:24 p.m. May 25, 2008
Grow brains, people. Polygamy is a CRIME. These people are not only nuts, they
are CRIMINALS. Rationalization isn't going to work. 50 year old men
marrying 13 year old girls in the name of some wacky 'religion' is NOT
tolerable. Throw them in prison, remove the children so they can have a chance
in teh 21st century and sell that fake temple to pay back the taxpayer fraud.
These are NOT good people. Birth defect are rampant from the inbreeding. It is very difficult to determine who the rightful parents are since so many are related and are swapped out. This is a nightmare. Warren Jeffs admitted he was a FRAUD and NEVER a prophet. These people need correction. Now.
These are NOT good people. Birth defect are rampant from the inbreeding. It is very difficult to determine who the rightful parents are since so many are related and are swapped out. This is a nightmare. Warren Jeffs admitted he was a FRAUD and NEVER a prophet. These people need correction. Now.
to: Old Geezer in Vegas | 7:25 p.m. May 25, 2008
to Old Gee
A German's opinion | 8:03 p.m. May 25, 2008
I am not at all fond of the FLDS's 'Weltanschaung' !
Nevertheless, what worries me much more, is that the performance of the law enforcement units and the CPS remind me inevitably of the German NAZIS under Hitler and the methods then used to impair an unwanted society (in those times: the Jews).
Confronting a complete public group with general suspicion has nothing in common with legitimate law enforcement.
Well, strangely enough, the American language doesn't seem to have a one-word translation for the German word "Rechtsstaat" in which it should be common practise to first collect evidence and THEN indict and try suspected abusers - case after case, on an individual base.
Nevertheless, what worries me much more, is that the performance of the law enforcement units and the CPS remind me inevitably of the German NAZIS under Hitler and the methods then used to impair an unwanted society (in those times: the Jews).
Confronting a complete public group with general suspicion has nothing in common with legitimate law enforcement.
Well, strangely enough, the American language doesn't seem to have a one-word translation for the German word "Rechtsstaat" in which it should be common practise to first collect evidence and THEN indict and try suspected abusers - case after case, on an individual base.
honest wayne | 9:15 p.m. May 25, 2008
Where are the arrest warrants
COHOUSING | 9:33 p.m. May 25, 2008
===
"COHOUSING" (SECULAR LEGAL TERM)
FITS POLYGAMISTS
REDEFINE OR RECAST "POLYGAMIST COMMUNAL HOUSING PROBLEM" AS COHOUSING.
REDEFINE OR RECAST "POLYGAMIST LIVING ARRANGMENT PROBLEM" IN RANCH-COMPOUNDS OR MULTI-UNITS
AS
COHOUSING WITH COMMON FACILITIES
shared common facilities and ongoing connections with neighbors
Intentional Communities
COHOUSING IS LEGAL.
====
"COHOUSING" (SECULAR LEGAL TERM)
FITS POLYGAMISTS
REDEFINE OR RECAST "POLYGAMIST COMMUNAL HOUSING PROBLEM" AS COHOUSING.
REDEFINE OR RECAST "POLYGAMIST LIVING ARRANGMENT PROBLEM" IN RANCH-COMPOUNDS OR MULTI-UNITS
AS
COHOUSING WITH COMMON FACILITIES
shared common facilities and ongoing connections with neighbors
Intentional Communities
COHOUSING IS LEGAL.
====
SLIPPERY-SLOPE | 9:38 p.m. May 25, 2008
==
ARGUMENT AGAINST TEXAS CPS
"POLYGAMY CHILDREN: SLIPPERY-SLOPE ARGUMENT IS A FALLACY."
TEXAS SLIPPERY-SLOPE ARGUMENTS (THREE DOMINO FALLACIES)
THE TEXAS-CPS COMPLAINT, AND AFFIDAVITS, AND JUDGE'S ORDER AGAINST THE FLDS CUSTODY CASE IS BASED ON:
(X) [POLYGAMY "SLIPPERY-SLOPE ARGUMENT"] AS A FALLACY," AND
(X) [RELIGIOUS FREEDOM "SLIPPERY-SLOPE"] ARGUMENT AS FALLACY,
(X) [CHILD PROTECTION "SLIPPERY-SLOPE"] ARGUMENT AS FALLACY.
THE CORE OF THIS CASE IS BASED on AT LEAST THREE (DOMINO FALLACIES) OR SLIPPERY-SLOPE FALLACIES
FIND THE DEFINITION OF (48) OR MORE TYPES OF FALLACIES. (WITH OR WITHOUT A PRIORI PROBABILITY)
==
ARGUMENT AGAINST TEXAS CPS
"POLYGAMY CHILDREN: SLIPPERY-SLOPE ARGUMENT IS A FALLACY."
TEXAS SLIPPERY-SLOPE ARGUMENTS (THREE DOMINO FALLACIES)
THE TEXAS-CPS COMPLAINT, AND AFFIDAVITS, AND JUDGE'S ORDER AGAINST THE FLDS CUSTODY CASE IS BASED ON:
(X) [POLYGAMY "SLIPPERY-SLOPE ARGUMENT"] AS A FALLACY," AND
(X) [RELIGIOUS FREEDOM "SLIPPERY-SLOPE"] ARGUMENT AS FALLACY,
(X) [CHILD PROTECTION "SLIPPERY-SLOPE"] ARGUMENT AS FALLACY.
THE CORE OF THIS CASE IS BASED on AT LEAST THREE (DOMINO FALLACIES) OR SLIPPERY-SLOPE FALLACIES
FIND THE DEFINITION OF (48) OR MORE TYPES OF FALLACIES. (WITH OR WITHOUT A PRIORI PROBABILITY)
==
Laurie | 9:47 p.m. May 25, 2008
I pray that the paperwork these FLDS members are being "advised" to
sign won't come back to bite them in their bum. Are we not all advised to
read contracts thoroughly before reading them? These poor mothers are desperate.
Are they just being set up? I pray that this will shed light on the problems
that can face all people, NOT just the FLDS members. Too much focus is being put
on this group of Christian people, yet how many children are being abused that
don't belong to this group? I think they've got a witch hunt going on
here. Anybody guilty of child abuse or neglect should be prosecuted. I myself
grew up being sexually, physically and mentally abused as a member of the
Seventh Day Adventist Church. This does happen no matter whether there is
religion involved or not. Bless all the little hearts who have no idea what is
going on in their lives. My prayers are with each of the children, the mothers,
and any other innocent people being persecuted in this horrible situation. As a
mother, you would be forced to kill me before you'd EVER get my child from
my arms.
Laurie | 9:57 p.m. May 25, 2008
I too should learn to proof read my words before I hit send. Let's try this
again. I pray that the paperwork these FLDS members are being
"advised" to sign won't come back to bite them in their bum. Are
we not all given counsel to read contracts thoroughly before signing them? These
mothers are simply desperate. I pray that this will shed light on the problems
that can face ALL people, NOT just the FLDS members. Too much focus is being put
on this group of people, yet how many children are being abused that don't
belong to this group? I think they've got a witch hunt going on here.
Anybody guilty of child abuse or neglect SHOULD be prosecuted. I myself grew up
being sexually, physically and mentally abused as a member of another prominent
religion. This sickness happens no matter if religion is involved or not. My
prayers and concerns are with each of the children and their heartbroken
mothers. As a mother, you would be forced to kill me before you'd EVER get
my son from my arms.
Thankful for Fair Press in SLC | 11:45 p.m. May 25, 2008
I'm not a Mormon, and don't live in Utah, so I didn't know until
recently that the Deseret News was owned by the Church of Jesus Christ of the
Latter Day Saints (LDS).
I know there has been a fractious history between the LDS leadership and other Mormon groups. So, I could expect "sloppy and biased reporting" from the Deseret News, just like I am reading in the Texas newspapers, press services, and national press.
But God bless you Deseret News, your journalists, management and owners. You are doing a great job in reporting the sophisticated detail on the legal issues in the case, and its the legal and Texas political issues which will tell us how this story turns out.
I know there has been a fractious history between the LDS leadership and other Mormon groups. So, I could expect "sloppy and biased reporting" from the Deseret News, just like I am reading in the Texas newspapers, press services, and national press.
But God bless you Deseret News, your journalists, management and owners. You are doing a great job in reporting the sophisticated detail on the legal issues in the case, and its the legal and Texas political issues which will tell us how this story turns out.
Deaf Ears | 1:21 a.m. May 26, 2008
As a general rule ALL citizens should be wary of signing any document or
agreement with the government, period! Attorney's representing the FLDS
that did not advise their client to reject the CPS blackmail agreement did them
a disservice and was working for the government. kidnapping a whole community,
individually depriving them of their constitutional rights and obtaining coerced
confessions/agreements under duress should void any CPS/FLDS agreements if the
high court finds against the state. I know they won't give up but if CPS
and Texas family services were smart(yikes) they would cut political loses and
restore the children to their mothers.
yo desnews | 8:06 p.m. May 26, 2008
Have you ever heard of the 5th amendment? Sure doesn't sound like it.
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But in a jury trial, and a criminal case, with a vague agreement that only spoke generally about child abuse counsling, a jury would likely believe a mother who said she only said yes to understanding the agreement because the state said she needed to do that to get her kids back.
If I were on the jury I would consider the plan prepared by state on a take it a leave basis much more negative for the prosecution that the defendent.