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Will signing abuse papers come back to haunt FLDS?

"If you sign off on all these agreements in the service plans, then CPS can continue to beat them over the head as to what they did or did not do," she said.

So, by not signing the document, they can continue to abuse the children.

Yes signing those boilerplate plans will be a problem. You can count on the state of Texas to fight dirty. They always do.

If you did not do something, then do not cave in and sign the papers. Papers that have been signed by persons over 18 who are not mentally disabled Count and they should count. Just because you get a highly questionable court ruling in your favor, later on does not mean what you signed did not count. People that did not do the crime, take a plea most of the time. Because they are scared of what might happen. If you stand your ground the State has got to prove their case. Often if the manipulation does not work, it is the State that that folds. Remember The State consists of paid Public Services Employees, who do not have a personal attachment to anything besides their, Jobs, Retirement, Promotion, Family, Faith Group and Social Network. Perhaps not exactly in that order. They themselves may be victims of Abusive or less then Stellar Personal Relationships. You do not quit the game just because you Lost Your Queen. You wait for your opponent to make a mistake. Example the recent Court Ruling. You have to endure to the end and see what pieces fall and what opens up. You may Win.

1. I understand the
A. A child is at risk of abuse and or neglect as determined by DFPS;
B. A child has been removed from his/her home and placed in DFPS care or
C. A child formerly in DFPS care is in danger of being returned to DFPS care.
>>> actually it says one of the following. A B C. etc. I see no admission of anything by signing this acknowledgement formm.

If the parents conceded abuse and neglect, why would CPS give the children back? The action of returning the children prove the paperwork invalid. It won't hold up in court since it is coercive and signed under duress.

Texas is as dirty as the Judicial system in Utah
The people are doing something to get their children back
This admission is a dirty trick of the State

Those parents signed those papers under duress. It was coercion as real as if they had a gun to their heads.

I have delt with CPS many times because of my special needs children. I would never sign anything that accuses me of abuse. I truly feel for these parents and I would tell them to not sign anything that would allow the courts to come back and say that they are guilty and take their children again. These poor kids have been through enough and should be given back to the families and CPS should keep their nose out of religious matters. God is the only one that can truly judge us. He is the one that can see what is going on. Texas needs to get their act together and give the kids back. the families have been through enough.

CM, I have not seen real concrete evidence of abuse. A photo of Jeffs with a young girl? Do you know how many photo's of men I have with my daughter? Grandfathers hugging my daughter. Uncles. close friends of our family. So, by Texas standards, I can't take my kids to that state, because they are 'abused'?

Please.

I'm not condoning abuse in any form at all. I'm not FLDS. But I think Texas and Judge walther has over played it's hand. I hope they get their heads handed to them on a silver platter by the Texas SC.

The millions of dollars that this is going to cost the taxpayers of Texas is staggering.

I have children and I would sign my soul to the devil himself to get my children returned.

In the stumble to give the children back, the bit that no one wants to discuss is...some of them most decidedly were abused. Most of them, probably. We've got to get past the 'wholesome and uplifting' image of religious white folks dressed as little house on the prairie cast who can do no wrong. The sex that goes on in those religious prisons can't be voluntary.
What can be done in the name of religion has to be curtailed somewhere. Somewhere before what these people do is acceptable.

Can you imagine if Judge who called for round up of all the children if others called in to cps and claimed abuse ???/ And the CPS workers themselves have a very bad history of abuse themselves. The FLDS are being prosecuted and persecuted and it is an OUTRAGE WE LDS DO NOTHING....we are discendants of polygamous kin for goodness sakes..these poor saints, the women, were under duress, I agree, can't wait for the whole state of Texas to be sued and for the feminist judge to be thrown out, de barred...it is so obvious cps spam this board and pic of Jeffs with the girl: absolutely fabricated, i am senior citizen photographer, and all FABRICATED. Return the children to their mothers....The Feminists are outraged some women want to be stay HOME MOTHERS. deep respect to the flds women....Not for any wrongdoing, but I don't see any, neither does CPS. boy, we LDS truly hate these saints, don't we?

Of course they were tricked and coerced. Let's hope if there are criminal charges the judge will throw that out because of the circumstances. Parents take desperate measures when it comes to getting their children back under such conditions. This whole debacle will hopefully teach Texas a thing or two about constitutional rights and due process. Hopefully CPS will get off their high horse and do things in a more appropriate manner with the goal of preserving families; not tearing them apart.

Yes, proceed with real allegations of abuse on a case-by-case basis but taking a child from a non-abusive parent is even greater abuse by the government and its agencies (CPS, courts, etc.) Someone needs to be monitoring the added abuse and mental trauma, as well as expenses, this mess is costing. Somehow government agencies are protected and allowed to break laws others are expected to abide by. People are guilty until proven innocent (and this has involved hundreds; not just one or two). I am embarrassed about this whole mess but I am a vocal and active opponent to abuse of women and children by violent, threatening or controlling partners, whatever religion. Running over rights is not helping.

There is a problem in trying to hold these agreements against the parents. In the purely legal aspect the papers might hold water. But every honest person in the USA that has followed this case knows they were signed under duress. CPS said, �Sign these papers or you may never see your kids again.� If it were one or two cases they might get away with it. But with this many people involved it would probably blow up in their face in the court of public opinion, the same court they tried to try this in.

Every honest person in the U.S. knows these kids are in grave danger in they are returned to the ungodly circumstances in which they lived. Some on here amaze me. Lost boys? Heard of them? Oh, that was made up. Numerous testimonies from women who escaped? Oh, those were made up too. So just return the children to a situation where girls will be raised to mindlessly obey men who they are ordered by a "prophet" to marry, where boys will be taught that women and children have no rights and can be beaten and humiliated with impugnity. Right-thinking people can only hope the state of Texas stands strong.

"Eyes On The Prize," if you want to do some complaining, go to where there are single moms who live in a world of Rap and "MTV Culture," X-Boxes and teen access to internet porn.

Where is your condemnation of "sexual prison" in places like this?

Obviously, you and too many other people (including the CPS) all consider this the "norm;" a bunch of white folks right out of 'Little House On The Prairie" seems weird to you and Must Be PUNISHED.

PS, I am an Atheistic Jew from New York City and a bona-fide "Red Diaper Doper Baby;" this whole FLDS case just smacks of McCarthyism; it's just another witchunt.

I am an honest person and I do not find the children in grave danger. The court psychiatrist also found the children not in grave danger. The FLDS expert that testified also stated that the children were not in grave danger. While there are some women that left the FLDS church, they did not testify. Ask yourself why not. Many additional women left the FLDS to return, while others left without harboring ill feelings. What of those women? Do you choose to ignore their experiences for the few that are anti? Stick with the facts over gossip.

Those Children should be removed from the homes for nothing more than simply neglect of the mind. They (FLDS) create mindless children. Come down here to Southern Utah, and meet some. They have zero interpersonal skills, and are taught that the whole world is against them. Although I think that the matter was handled very poorly, in the end, it will be good to let the pligs know, that they arent above the law. Maybe some of those kids will be introduced to the idea that not everyone on the outside is evil. Maybe Some free thought will introduced.

C'mon folks, who on this forum really believes these documents will stand up in the Supreme court given that they were signed under duress, and coercive emotional pressure?

Who really believes that the summary taking of a whole community's children into custody without due process on a child-by-child, case-by-case basis will be upheld by the Supreme court as a 'lawful' and acceptable to the court action?

Texas has created a legal morass for itself on this one, not too dissimilar to how the Bush administration has dealt with this nation's economy, etc.

Remember, every village has its idiot, and there's a village in Texas that's been missing its village idiot for the past seven years.