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Texas fights return of FLDS kids
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Phil | 12:59 a.m. May 24, 2008
Any members of one religion who calls other members 'brother' and
'sister' should have all of their children removed when one case of
abuse pops up, that is what I got out of reading CPS filing with the supreme
court.
Guardian | 1:16 a.m. May 24, 2008
Read the response to the supreme court. It reveals the whine about orchestrated
denial of ID is a lie. All CPS knows to do is lie. This entire fiasco is a
lie.
lie
lie
lie
lie
lie
Let them people go!
lie
lie
lie
lie
lie
Let them people go!
Guardian | 1:17 a.m. May 24, 2008
amen brother
oops!
oops!
Comments continue below
CG | 4:18 a.m. May 24, 2008
Voss's statement about babies is a virtual admission that the CPS removed
the vast majority of the children on the basis of their religious beliefs,
without even an attempt to show they were in imminent danger of abuse, as the
law requires. It reeks of bigotry and feminist contempt for any woman who would
hold up childbearing to be her greatest duty in life.
Yet the CPS must continue to engage in this constitutionally violative line of argument, or else find itself setting the precedent that whenever a CPS worker sees a pregnant girl who looks "young," immediate state custody is in order.
Yet the CPS must continue to engage in this constitutionally violative line of argument, or else find itself setting the precedent that whenever a CPS worker sees a pregnant girl who looks "young," immediate state custody is in order.
Hey Phil | 4:30 a.m. May 24, 2008
Lots of religions seem to have its adherents call one another brother or
sister...it's wording from the New Testament.
The only issue I have with this case is simple application of the law. Because these people are FLDS, TX and its citizens, think it acceptable NOT to apply the rights granted every citizen of the U.S. The rest all remains noise, even if it causes a knee jerk response.
The only issue I have with this case is simple application of the law. Because these people are FLDS, TX and its citizens, think it acceptable NOT to apply the rights granted every citizen of the U.S. The rest all remains noise, even if it causes a knee jerk response.
Re Phil | 4:40 a.m. May 24, 2008
So since nuns are called sisters we should remove all the children from the
parents that attend catholic church where we have proven child abuse.
The CPS needs to wake up and return the children Now.
Hopefully the Texas supreme court will agree with the court in Austin and return all the children soon.
The CPS needs to wake up and return the children Now.
Hopefully the Texas supreme court will agree with the court in Austin and return all the children soon.
Anon | 5:07 a.m. May 24, 2008
There is a clear case of abuse here: the judge is clearly out of control and not
impartial. She should recuse herself or be disbarred.
Freethinker | 5:21 a.m. May 24, 2008
The appeals court decision was a big, fat black eye for CPS. The agency is now
trying to save face and gain time by appealing the decision to the Supreme
Court. Its argument for the appeal is as flimsy and hollow as was it reasoning
for invading the YFZ Ranch in the first place. Don't the over-zealous
bureaucrats at CPS realize that when you are in a hole you quit digging?
jwats0560 | 5:23 a.m. May 24, 2008
CPS is a ninety pound gorilla. No one knows how to stop it. Somebody sometime is
gonna have to put that sucker on a diet. I hope it will be the State Supreme
Court. What chance do you give that the State Supreme Court is going to overturn
three very conservative Republican judges? I say two chances, slim and none.
Hawkeye | 5:28 a.m. May 24, 2008
The Texas DFPS is engaged in a transparent game of sandbagging and footdragging.
By this point they must realize they have no hope of making a case against the
FLDS. Despite strident claims and their best propaganda effort, most of their
claims have vaperized back into the smoke they came from.
No, I'm not FLDS, nor a Utahan. I'm an Iowan. I'm just a US citizen sickened by the demonstrated abuse of power, the willingness to ignore due process and the continued willingness to fabricate the truth, desplayed by this agency.
No, I'm not FLDS, nor a Utahan. I'm an Iowan. I'm just a US citizen sickened by the demonstrated abuse of power, the willingness to ignore due process and the continued willingness to fabricate the truth, desplayed by this agency.
Pat | 6:02 a.m. May 24, 2008
The harm to these children, which is going to affect them a lifetime, was all
caused by the FLDS itself. There are, and should be, consequences to how we live
and treat those around us. FLDS dispises the very people who have assisted them
through the years and arrogantly hold the belief that everyone other than
themselves are wicked, damned and to be shunned.
The only way this sect has survived in this country is by deliberate lying and self-isolation so that their law-breaking fraud is "overlooked". They feel justified in perfecting the art of lying (from early childhood) since it means (to them) survival of their beliefs. Any state with these or similar sects within its boarders have a choice: Overlook (Utah) or tackle the problem (Texas).
Overlooking has produced readers of this story to add "comment" to this paper such as "...MY tax money goes to support these people with welfare and medical assistance?" Incredible. By the hundreds these FLDS citizens are gov`t-supported for decade after decade and the state has ignored it. In the meantime, FLDS has (even within their children) perfected the "righteous lying" to implement the "wicked world`s" roll in helping them to survive.
The only way this sect has survived in this country is by deliberate lying and self-isolation so that their law-breaking fraud is "overlooked". They feel justified in perfecting the art of lying (from early childhood) since it means (to them) survival of their beliefs. Any state with these or similar sects within its boarders have a choice: Overlook (Utah) or tackle the problem (Texas).
Overlooking has produced readers of this story to add "comment" to this paper such as "...MY tax money goes to support these people with welfare and medical assistance?" Incredible. By the hundreds these FLDS citizens are gov`t-supported for decade after decade and the state has ignored it. In the meantime, FLDS has (even within their children) perfected the "righteous lying" to implement the "wicked world`s" roll in helping them to survive.
Anonymous | 6:09 a.m. May 24, 2008
It is truly amazing how much of the 'Jack-
booted Thug" activities the citizens of this Grand State will tolerate as long as ". . . it's for the children". The 3d Court Judge seems to really understand the 4th Amendment (from the Bill of Rights for those educated in government schools). This differed from Waco only in that the FLDS had no guns, otherwise the govewrnment in their rush to 'protect' might have killed all these children too.
E. Ross Craft, J.D.
Houston, Texas
booted Thug" activities the citizens of this Grand State will tolerate as long as ". . . it's for the children". The 3d Court Judge seems to really understand the 4th Amendment (from the Bill of Rights for those educated in government schools). This differed from Waco only in that the FLDS had no guns, otherwise the govewrnment in their rush to 'protect' might have killed all these children too.
E. Ross Craft, J.D.
Houston, Texas
Texas Sheriff | 7:19 a.m. May 24, 2008
This week a sheriff was charged with sex with an underage girl. Were his
biological children removed from his wife? I'm just curious. I would think
them in immediate and imminent danger.
dissident | 7:33 a.m. May 24, 2008
Now these FLDS will know the pain we dissidents have felt to have our children
who are married to FLDS men taken from our association. Our grand kids have been
told we are wicked appostates because we do not love the prophet. The FLDS
proclaim they are free but I have a daughter who has been made prisoner to her
own home. she cannot leave the home for fear she might meet up with her mother
who could influence her.
C'mon Willie let our children free. I quote your saying to the media "do unto others as you would have them do to you" Release these young women who have been sealed to the prophet only to live the life of a Catholic Nun. What future have they got hidden up in some house of hiding? Time to get the "Mormon aspect back into the church.
It's time for all the FLDS to break free from the bondage they have put themselve in. Let the Articles of our Faith and the Ten Commandments of our God be your Moses to lead you free.
C'mon Willie let our children free. I quote your saying to the media "do unto others as you would have them do to you" Release these young women who have been sealed to the prophet only to live the life of a Catholic Nun. What future have they got hidden up in some house of hiding? Time to get the "Mormon aspect back into the church.
It's time for all the FLDS to break free from the bondage they have put themselve in. Let the Articles of our Faith and the Ten Commandments of our God be your Moses to lead you free.
wrz | 7:32 a.m. May 24, 2008
What I got out of the CPS filing is that the girls will be taught to have
children, that the boys will be taught to impregnate girls, and that older men
who already have wives may well take younger girls to wife and get them
pregnant. And that this all adds up to abuse of children. This all may well be
true. And in some respects and in some circles it could be considered
despicable and even wrong. But in no way does it show that these kids are in
IMMINENT danger requiring their removal. CPS is wrong, exceeded its authority,
and will lose.
Bruce | 8:01 a.m. May 24, 2008
My goodness, what are they going to do with the Catholics that call nuns
"sister" and priests "father".
Bring on the buses.
Bring on the buses.
Freedom Mann | 8:14 a.m. May 24, 2008
This country, from colonial times onward, has had to endure various witch-hunts
from time-to-time, and this is just another one.
So far, Phil, there have been no SPECIFIC CHARGES leveled at ANYONE; people who have a belief system where they call each other "brother and sister" may indicate what you claim it does (much as Communists all calling each other "comrade") but that's not the point.
The point IS, Phil, that there is something called Personal FREEDOM in this country; it's codified in the US Constitution and it all seems non-applicable to the FLDS simply because a bunch of bigots just flat-out don't like them and that seems to include YOU.
Yes, there are a few girls who are very, very underage and pregnant. That said, the percentage of unmarried teen pregnancy amongst the FLDS is WAY lower than that of this nation and/or the State of Texas. If you want to use this as a standard for state-wide Custody of Children, you'd have to empty out the Naval Air Station at Corpus Christi to handle them all.
This whole business with the FLDS is just one big double-standard.
So far, Phil, there have been no SPECIFIC CHARGES leveled at ANYONE; people who have a belief system where they call each other "brother and sister" may indicate what you claim it does (much as Communists all calling each other "comrade") but that's not the point.
The point IS, Phil, that there is something called Personal FREEDOM in this country; it's codified in the US Constitution and it all seems non-applicable to the FLDS simply because a bunch of bigots just flat-out don't like them and that seems to include YOU.
Yes, there are a few girls who are very, very underage and pregnant. That said, the percentage of unmarried teen pregnancy amongst the FLDS is WAY lower than that of this nation and/or the State of Texas. If you want to use this as a standard for state-wide Custody of Children, you'd have to empty out the Naval Air Station at Corpus Christi to handle them all.
This whole business with the FLDS is just one big double-standard.
Helga | 8:29 a.m. May 24, 2008
I think People need to obey the Law, and since Polygamy is illegale, I think
this schould be inforfoced. Takink the children away from their Mothers is quite
another. Yes they seem to leave in a different World of their own that
doesn't mean they abused.
Concerned citizen | 8:43 a.m. May 24, 2008
Absolutely ridiculous accusations, which they just keep escalating in severity,
yet have yet to prove a SINGLE ONE OF THEM which is cause for removal of all of
the children.
If the Supreme Court sides with CPS, then all hope is lost for the State of Texas. It seems clear that rioting and just about anything else will ensue. It won't be safe to work for CPS. Time to look for other work?
If the Supreme Court sides with CPS, then all hope is lost for the State of Texas. It seems clear that rioting and just about anything else will ensue. It won't be safe to work for CPS. Time to look for other work?
BeeCareful | 8:43 a.m. May 24, 2008
Of course kidnapping the kids was an overreach by CPS. The appeals court has now
confirmed it. And the supreme court will uphold that verdict unless they are
incredibly stupid or biased. The kids should be speedily returned to their
mothers -- with certain conditions attached.
What is really needed here is prevention of further child sexual abuse by some in the FLDS community. They simply must give up any notion that impregnating girls under the age of 18 is allowed period, end of story. If any future girl turns up pregnant, the father will be tracked down and tossed in jail. In order to get the kids back, all men women and children in that community must submit to DNA testing, especially the men. The all girls in that group must give their true age (and there must me some kind of medical test that can confirm the age. If they can find out the age of trees or horses, they certainly should be able to do the same with children.) If any girl under the age of 18 becomes pregnant, a simple scan of the DNA database would reveal the perpetrator and he would go to jail.
What is really needed here is prevention of further child sexual abuse by some in the FLDS community. They simply must give up any notion that impregnating girls under the age of 18 is allowed period, end of story. If any future girl turns up pregnant, the father will be tracked down and tossed in jail. In order to get the kids back, all men women and children in that community must submit to DNA testing, especially the men. The all girls in that group must give their true age (and there must me some kind of medical test that can confirm the age. If they can find out the age of trees or horses, they certainly should be able to do the same with children.) If any girl under the age of 18 becomes pregnant, a simple scan of the DNA database would reveal the perpetrator and he would go to jail.
Anonymous | 8:46 a.m. May 24, 2008
Quote the article: "The department justifies the removal of babies from
the ranch, citing a Child Protective Services supervisor's statement that
"the little boys, the babies, the girls, what I have found is that they are
living under an umbrella OF BELIEF that having children at a young age is a
blessing and therefore any child in that environment would not be safe."
Emphasis added.
In other words, these babies and young children are being withheld from their parents because of the parents' BELIEFS. I didn't know that in the United States of America we could have our children removed from our homes because of what we believe. The little children should be returned to their parents until it can be determined what real laws were broken and by whom. This whole situation is very sad. And very dangerous.
In other words, these babies and young children are being withheld from their parents because of the parents' BELIEFS. I didn't know that in the United States of America we could have our children removed from our homes because of what we believe. The little children should be returned to their parents until it can be determined what real laws were broken and by whom. This whole situation is very sad. And very dangerous.
Hummm | 8:55 a.m. May 24, 2008
Lets see....mothers who do not identify their children, children who lie about
their ages and their names....fathers who do not step up to the plate and claim
their children....pregnant teenagers with no teenage boys around to possibly be
the fathers...
What do you people expect to happen when there is no cooperation. It is not about religion, it is about abuse pure and simple. Children have a right to be protected and that is the job of CPS. As an agency they often have to fight both the parents and the courts, particulary when the case involves Risk of Abuse.
Can there just be some cooperation among the adults here? FLDS stop posturing and crowing and cooperate.
Ya'll would all be yelling and screaming just like you are if CPS did nothing about abuse....seems to me the only winners in this entire case are the attorneys....oh wait, they are volunteering their time to people who have a compound worth millions. Go figure.
What do you people expect to happen when there is no cooperation. It is not about religion, it is about abuse pure and simple. Children have a right to be protected and that is the job of CPS. As an agency they often have to fight both the parents and the courts, particulary when the case involves Risk of Abuse.
Can there just be some cooperation among the adults here? FLDS stop posturing and crowing and cooperate.
Ya'll would all be yelling and screaming just like you are if CPS did nothing about abuse....seems to me the only winners in this entire case are the attorneys....oh wait, they are volunteering their time to people who have a compound worth millions. Go figure.
Thomas | 8:54 a.m. May 24, 2008
CPS could certianly continue an investigation based on real evidence. Innocent
children have unecessarily harmed by being seperated from their parents. CPS
have some decency and return the children.
Yeah Phil | 8:57 a.m. May 24, 2008
Amen, brother.....
Matt | 9:00 a.m. May 24, 2008
CPS apparently forgot they are in America where the US Constitution protects us
from improper governmental intervention in our lives. Moreover, CPS has shown a
willingness to overstep its bounds and should be better controled by the State
of Texas, especially the Legislature. This whole saga demonstrates what an
out-of-control state agency can do to people. Next time they may be at your
door to take your childrn away b/c you let them watch too much TV. This is the
time to draw the line before they damage other people's lives.
Conrad | 9:15 a.m. May 24, 2008
To Phil
Most Christians call each other Brother and Sister, should we all have our children taken away without due process of law..
Remember nobody has been convicted of anything yet. I agree that the child abuse should be dealt with severely, or are the Amish next because they live differently..
Most Christians call each other Brother and Sister, should we all have our children taken away without due process of law..
Remember nobody has been convicted of anything yet. I agree that the child abuse should be dealt with severely, or are the Amish next because they live differently..
chris | 9:20 a.m. May 24, 2008
Phil - you got that right. The CPS is only trying to delay delay delay the
inevitable. I predict the Texas Supreme Court will keep the appeals court
ruling intact sometime Sat, Sun or Mon to stay within the holiday weekend
newscycle. This is bad for Texas.
John Lambert | 9:30 a.m. May 24, 2008
I quote fromk the CPS statement. "These child-mothers were
married". By this admission they have just destroyed their argument for
child abuse. Texas grants a clear exemption for sexual relations with a spouse
who is a minor. They can push polygamy charges, but by their own logic have
admitted calling it a child abuse case is pure lies.
Another outrage is they continue to hold up Rozita as a worthwhile example of what is going on.
I have not gotten through their whole Writ of Mandamus but just felt compelled to comment on the fact of their own internal illogic.
Another outrage is they continue to hold up Rozita as a worthwhile example of what is going on.
I have not gotten through their whole Writ of Mandamus but just felt compelled to comment on the fact of their own internal illogic.
Anonymous | 9:35 a.m. May 24, 2008
the problem with this from the very beginning is that the state has to prove the
child(ren) are at immediate risk of harm. And this has to be done individually.
This child will be harm now if not removed. That is what the court based their
decision on. If I was a parent I would never live in Texas. The court said
they lacked that proof.
Let them Pay now! | 9:38 a.m. May 24, 2008
Everything about this story is rotten. It's the textbook example of a
zealous government destroying the United States Constitution in order to
grandstand and pretend that they are only interested in protecting the children.
John Lambert | 9:38 a.m. May 24, 2008
The CPS is arguing that the children can be taken because they believe they
should follow the dictates of God more than the dictates of the law.
By this logic they should also try to take all Jehovah's Witnesses children. Jehovah's Witnesses consistently consider and respect for the law to be idol worship.
I have yet to be convinced that "emotional abuse" is a legally defined term. I also dislike the notion of taking children because their current life might lead them to break laws. Should we also try to take away the children of parents who allow them to listen to music that promotes drug use? What about groups where there are consistent and common occurances of underage drinking?
Actually, since the Rastafarians believe that smoking marijuana is a way to connect with God should we remove all their children?
By this logic they should also try to take all Jehovah's Witnesses children. Jehovah's Witnesses consistently consider and respect for the law to be idol worship.
I have yet to be convinced that "emotional abuse" is a legally defined term. I also dislike the notion of taking children because their current life might lead them to break laws. Should we also try to take away the children of parents who allow them to listen to music that promotes drug use? What about groups where there are consistent and common occurances of underage drinking?
Actually, since the Rastafarians believe that smoking marijuana is a way to connect with God should we remove all their children?
Worried about U.S. | 9:42 a.m. May 24, 2008
These families should be treated like other cases in Texas and hopefully they
are not so out of control that they are removing ALL children who are
POTENTIALLY in danger of being harmed in the next ten years based on their
religious beliefs. Also, I assume they are not removing all children of all
families who have a teenage daughter who becomes pregnant. In the U.S. it is
not at all uncommon for 20 year olds to have two or three children - still
unmarried. What is Texas doing about these (and those getting abortions
besides)? If this group is being singled out differently from the others, they
certainly aren't justified in doing it here. Let the children go back to
their mothers while the agencies study the situation as they would in other
cases of reported neglect/abuse. They need enough evidence to actually remove a
child to justify compromising the child's emotional health by disrupting
his/her environment, depriving them of the love they enjoy as a family with
their siblings and cousins and community. Even if you don't like the
community, this is America. Each case must be treated individually. Group
action like this is Nazi-ism.
John Lambert | 9:45 a.m. May 24, 2008
"Children call eachother brothers and sisters". I know
African-Americans who will call any other African-American brother or sister.
Does this mean if one person in Detroit abuses a child we can take all children
from anyone who has refered to that person as brother?
Besides this, CPS has not faced up to the issue of the actual arrangement of the homes at the ranch. The real question is if a man beats his own children would he have unrestricted access in beating any child on the ranch? I think the answer is no.
I think people should only be punished for beliefs not actions.
Besides this, CPS has not faced up to the issue of the actual arrangement of the homes at the ranch. The real question is if a man beats his own children would he have unrestricted access in beating any child on the ranch? I think the answer is no.
I think people should only be punished for beliefs not actions.
Sally | 9:44 a.m. May 24, 2008
I will believe this whole case is NOT based on polygamy and politics when I read
about CPS removing children from KKK and White Supremacy Groups homes in mass.
Parents who are KKK/White Supremacy group members teach their children it is
okay to persecute blacks and Jews. To commit crimes to drive them out. That
these groups are sub-human. So, following the Texas CPS train of thought, if a
KKK member believes it is okay to burn a cross in someone's yard (which is
a Class 6 felony in most States and a Felony under the US Code) then that child
should be taken away from his/her parent at birth because when the kid grows up
in 18 years they MIGHT stick a cross in someone's yard and set it on fire.
Take the money & RUN! | 9:46 a.m. May 24, 2008
I think the FLDS women should sue Texas, get the money, DUMP THE FLDS MEN,get
the kids, take off, find some happiness somewhere with one man/woman
relationship, and enjoy the money and kids. GET RID OF THE FLDS MEN ONCE AND FOR
ALL! And make certain the money stays with the FLDS women and kids after suing
Texas. FLDS women don't need those lying FLDS wimp bums they call men!
John Lambert | 9:54 a.m. May 24, 2008
By CPS logic anyone who advocates sex by children under age 17 is a criminal.
Can we now try to remove all the children of parents who frequent the Sterling
Heights Library because it has the pro-child sex "It's Perfectly
Normal" in its children's section?
is there sense in Texas | 9:57 a.m. May 24, 2008
I had given up on Texas, seemed like nobody had any sense there but there is a
ray of hope. Looks like CPS is totally corrupt and needs to be investigated more
so than the FLDS.
Hope the children get to go home soon. I have yet to see proof of an abused child. I know the bishop's record states underage marriage, which is wrong, but the girls named in the record don't seem to be in CPS prisons. Where are they?
Hope the children get to go home soon. I have yet to see proof of an abused child. I know the bishop's record states underage marriage, which is wrong, but the girls named in the record don't seem to be in CPS prisons. Where are they?
moniker | 10:07 a.m. May 24, 2008
This situation must be a hot potato at the hightest levels of state government
or the Texas Supreme Court Judges, more powerful than even the Governor, would
not be working over the weekend.
It's not hard to see that the outcome will affect the future standing of the Governor, State Attorney General, and DFPS officials.
The cruxt of the situation for the Texas Supreme Court places the Justices between a rock and hard place. On one hand they have state political presssure and debts pushing them toward giving the state what it wants, and on the other, that their reputation and that of the state with the United States depends upon following the US Constitution and the Bill Of Rights. If they don't uphold US citizen rights, it would likely come up again at a hearing for a more important job, such as Federal court or Supreme Court appointment.
It's no wonder that they don't want to waste any time. I personally expect that they will ensure their own futures and either uphold the Third Appeals Court decision or replace it with a modified ruling that makes some compromise.
Its unlikely that DFPS will get a blank check.
It's not hard to see that the outcome will affect the future standing of the Governor, State Attorney General, and DFPS officials.
The cruxt of the situation for the Texas Supreme Court places the Justices between a rock and hard place. On one hand they have state political presssure and debts pushing them toward giving the state what it wants, and on the other, that their reputation and that of the state with the United States depends upon following the US Constitution and the Bill Of Rights. If they don't uphold US citizen rights, it would likely come up again at a hearing for a more important job, such as Federal court or Supreme Court appointment.
It's no wonder that they don't want to waste any time. I personally expect that they will ensure their own futures and either uphold the Third Appeals Court decision or replace it with a modified ruling that makes some compromise.
Its unlikely that DFPS will get a blank check.
God Bless America | 10:08 a.m. May 24, 2008
Why cant Texas drop this and start over with due process? Why do they insist on
breaking thier own rules? The laws of Texas? Fedral laws? The constitution?
These Crimes are being dealt with every day within the bounds of the law. Why
cant Texas do the same here?
Patriot | 10:18 a.m. May 24, 2008
Prep your selfes People, it�s just getting started. If
there ever was a good reason for a civil war this would be it. It
don�t matter who says what, what matters is the
Constitution and the Bill of rights be protected from all Terrorists no matter
what they call themselves. We are all about to see if the Justice System has
what it takes to defend those most Precious Documents that our Fathers have died
to get us, in the case that it fails we will then see if the people are willing
to protect them. I hope the system has what it takes. As far as the FLDS go
currently I view them as fellow Americans, and would consider it a privilege for
them to view me the same.
Spike | 10:29 a.m. May 24, 2008
I do not agree with the doctrine of plural marriage and I believe people found
guilty of child abuse should recieve at the minimum a mandatory life sentence,
but I am glad that the court ruled against CPS. My family was nearly torn apart
by Utah CPS based on a false accusation by an extremely mentally ill
(documented) relative. Except for perhaps the military or the CIA, I cannot
think of any other organization that operates so covertly. You are
automatically presumed guilty, and even if you are cleared, you have a record
that will follow you for a lifetime. Every citizen in the United States is
entitled to due process, and I believe that the raid on the FLDS compound
splitting up families, amounted to child abuse in and of itself.
Ruthie's Girl | 10:29 a.m. May 24, 2008
How can the children be returned to their parents when we don't know who
they are?
Repeated lies about names, ages and family ties only make this cluster "mess" worse.
DNA results are just around the corner and alot of FLDS men and women are starting to sweat.
When the results are in I think alot of people will be shocked to find out just who "Baby Daddy" really is.
Repeated lies about names, ages and family ties only make this cluster "mess" worse.
DNA results are just around the corner and alot of FLDS men and women are starting to sweat.
When the results are in I think alot of people will be shocked to find out just who "Baby Daddy" really is.
The sad thing | 11:03 a.m. May 24, 2008
The sad thing is that the heavy-handed actions of the Texas CPS is going to
solidify the leaders' control over the members of the FLDS--after all,
hasn't the very thing the people have been warned about now come to pass?
The mothers and children have been torn apart and the children terrorized. They
will believe even more firmly than before that the outside world is both cruel
and dangerous to them. NOT the way to free these people.
Deaf Ears | 11:24 a.m. May 24, 2008
Take note of this case America! It's not over by a long shot. Real
terrorism exists in America and it is the government doing it. As we witness
the FLDS events unfolding before our eyes, we are seeing what happens everyday
in all 50 states of the US. It�s not just about the FLDS
families anymore; it�s about all of us. Since when can a
state agency
march into our homes with scant evidence, innuendo, disinformation, gossip, implication and without any real justification kidnap children and terrorize whole families; in many cases without a real warrant. Either they are ignorant of judicial procedures, grossly incompetent or out of control. What little good they may have ever done is not worth further abuse; they should be abolished. This stuff happens everyday in all the 50 states not just in Texas. Hopefully the FLDS case has revealed to the public the horror of what CPS/family services really are and states will be pressured to review their existence.
march into our homes with scant evidence, innuendo, disinformation, gossip, implication and without any real justification kidnap children and terrorize whole families; in many cases without a real warrant. Either they are ignorant of judicial procedures, grossly incompetent or out of control. What little good they may have ever done is not worth further abuse; they should be abolished. This stuff happens everyday in all the 50 states not just in Texas. Hopefully the FLDS case has revealed to the public the horror of what CPS/family services really are and states will be pressured to review their existence.
DC | 11:28 a.m. May 24, 2008
To Hummm
You appear not to have read the submissions to the Supreme Court. CPS's claim that the FLDS mothers and children did not identify themselves does not appear to be true. I will refrain from calling it an intentional lie, although it is getting harder and harder to give the CPS any benefit of the doubt. To cite only the most obvious fact noted in the court filings, CPS has produced hundreds of "service plans" identifying what specific parents must do to get specific children back and was in the process of holding hearings on those service plans when the the 3rd Appellate Court intervened. So obviously, CPS feels it has received the information it needs to identify which children go with which mother and father. I have yet to read any comment on this board in favor of the CPS action that does not repeat at least one -- and usually many -- slanderous rumors that according to the Texas Court have no evidence to support them. Not just insufficient evidence -- no evidence at all. What kind of backwoods bigots are you that you would condemn people as scum without evidence?
You appear not to have read the submissions to the Supreme Court. CPS's claim that the FLDS mothers and children did not identify themselves does not appear to be true. I will refrain from calling it an intentional lie, although it is getting harder and harder to give the CPS any benefit of the doubt. To cite only the most obvious fact noted in the court filings, CPS has produced hundreds of "service plans" identifying what specific parents must do to get specific children back and was in the process of holding hearings on those service plans when the the 3rd Appellate Court intervened. So obviously, CPS feels it has received the information it needs to identify which children go with which mother and father. I have yet to read any comment on this board in favor of the CPS action that does not repeat at least one -- and usually many -- slanderous rumors that according to the Texas Court have no evidence to support them. Not just insufficient evidence -- no evidence at all. What kind of backwoods bigots are you that you would condemn people as scum without evidence?
Slippery Slope | 11:28 a.m. May 24, 2008
What the FLDS ought to do is relocate their ranch in California. Poligamy would
probably not be an issue there since the California Suprmem Court is giving
everyone a marriage license these days.
On the other extreme side of the case, the State of Texas has shredded the U.S. Constitution. Texas, you better clean your house. The head of the CPS should lose his/her job today and the judge in the case should be recalled by the good citizens of Texas.
Today, the FLDS. Tomorrow, you or me.
On the other extreme side of the case, the State of Texas has shredded the U.S. Constitution. Texas, you better clean your house. The head of the CPS should lose his/her job today and the judge in the case should be recalled by the good citizens of Texas.
Today, the FLDS. Tomorrow, you or me.
Sokol | 11:28 a.m. May 24, 2008
I hope these children have not dissappeared for good.I wonder if people are
aware of how much abuse
goes on in foster homes..ALOT.
CPS officials are trying to save face...and they
are more worried about that and ascertaining money
from this human jackpot..
goes on in foster homes..ALOT.
CPS officials are trying to save face...and they
are more worried about that and ascertaining money
from this human jackpot..
John Lambert | 11:30 a.m. May 24, 2008
If you read all of Phil's post you will see he actually feels that CPS
has way overstretched the bounds of logic and decency.
They will misconstrue and misquote anything to advance their goals. Their constant use of the "no age was to young to be married" ignores the real issue. The FLDS felt sex should only occur in the bonds of marriage which is far different than many others feel. If there have been people under 3-years-old raped in Texas foster care than maybe CPS should clean their own homes before they attack other homes.
They will misconstrue and misquote anything to advance their goals. Their constant use of the "no age was to young to be married" ignores the real issue. The FLDS felt sex should only occur in the bonds of marriage which is far different than many others feel. If there have been people under 3-years-old raped in Texas foster care than maybe CPS should clean their own homes before they attack other homes.
wyogirl | 11:38 a.m. May 24, 2008
To FLDS posters: Maggie � who appeared on Larry King,
said that we outsiders are
�uneducated� and because of that you
are persecuted because of your religion. So, please help me understand your
theology. We all see what you DO, but I don�t understand
the reasoning behind your actions. I�m trying to understand
what you believe -please tell me where I�m off base:
*We are all children of God � or at least white people born into your religion are ALL children of God � right?
*God is perfect. He is all knowing, all powerful. His justice is perfect as is his mercy. He has perfect love for all his children. Good?
*Gods spirit children are on earth to gain qualities like his. Family relationships prepare his children for the next life and help them gain the qualities he wants them to have. Families are forever � you claim to have authority from God to make them so. These family relationships are important to God.
*God gave his children guidelines. Do you believe in the 10 commandments? The articles of Faith written by Joseph Smith?
this will take two posts.
*We are all children of God � or at least white people born into your religion are ALL children of God � right?
*God is perfect. He is all knowing, all powerful. His justice is perfect as is his mercy. He has perfect love for all his children. Good?
*Gods spirit children are on earth to gain qualities like his. Family relationships prepare his children for the next life and help them gain the qualities he wants them to have. Families are forever � you claim to have authority from God to make them so. These family relationships are important to God.
*God gave his children guidelines. Do you believe in the 10 commandments? The articles of Faith written by Joseph Smith?
this will take two posts.
nantz | 11:39 a.m. May 24, 2008
Hopefully, when these childern are returned to their "many"
mothers they will have been taught that it's wrong and unlawfull, for men
to sexually abuse them, and when it happens-to come forward and report it to
their mother or the proper athorities. Oh, right, they're confined behind
the secret walls of the compound, so they can't report abuse. Well, then
hopefully, when they return, the mothers will all agree not to let the men have
these little girls, until they reach legal age, henceforth no crime.......unless
the "legal age women" says NO,.....as this is considered RAPE, and at
this point, they just might press charges against you!... Oh wait, I keep
forgetting that the compound has WALLS. Darn!......what a mess!!!!!
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