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Appeals court rules Texas acted improperly in removing FLDS children
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Aussie | 4:18 p.m. May 22, 2008
How sad. Poor kids. I hope that someone is going to fight for THEIR (the
children) rights to keep them away from the sexual predators who practice under
the guise of religion.
Simple Question | 4:22 p.m. May 22, 2008
If I fail to Teach my children in the belief system of the FLDS am I depriving
my children of there rights, or is it only if the FLDS fail to teach there
children in my belief system that that applies?
Comments continue below
re: re: Re: Mormons 3:15 p.m. | 4:27 p.m. May 22, 2008
I'm confused about what "old way" or "true way" we
(LDS) do not follow. My own personal opinion is that polygamy was taken from
the earth (and yes, it was) for some very good reasons. When the gospel was
restored, God's highest priority was for said gospel to be spread to every
corner of the world. If the LDS were still practicing polygamy, that would not
have been possible. Roundy scornfully labels us "friends to the
world," but who will the world open their doors to, friends or fanatics? I
don't believe God ever intended for us to be locked up in our ivory towers
with our 3 wives each thinking of nothing but our own personal salvation. If
polygamy is truly God's plan, he will restore it in His own time, not
yours. Just because the "way" is old doesn't mean it is right.
Matt | 4:30 p.m. May 22, 2008
Wonder if we can send ol' William T. Sherman through "Southern
Girl's" town again. Apparently, she didn't get the message that
bigotry doesn't pay...
hey reality check | 4:31 p.m. May 22, 2008
I am glad you are finally admitting that information is entering one of your
ears and going out the other. That is the first step to understanding. Now
that you have admitted your error, go search out the facts over gossip just as
the appeals court judges did.
G | 4:36 p.m. May 22, 2008
"You should want them to have as much information as possible so they can
form their own opinions rather than hiding them from the world."
Kind of like teaching David Hume and Richard Dawkins in Sunday School?
Kind of like teaching David Hume and Richard Dawkins in Sunday School?
Disgusted with ignorance | 4:43 p.m. May 22, 2008
Ref: Southern Girl, You are ten times as ignorant as you claim
"Mormons" to be nuts. Mormons are LDS, NOT FLDS. The LDS people are
taught to be law-abiding, God-fearing, citizens. It's like saying
Methodists are Mormons because they have Bibles. "Cult babies???" Get
a clue!!!! I would much rather see the breeding of babies rather than the
breeding of hate that eminates from you!
It Aint Over | 4:44 p.m. May 22, 2008
Americans should not underestimate the depths to which Texas CPS leaders will
stoop to defend their misguided and overzealous perception of
�right.� The ruling of the 3rd Court
of Appeals will be perceived them as a
�liberal� ruling, especially since it
was generated out of Austin (a much more liberal politic), and will undoubtedly
be appealed by the Agency. Unfortunately, the case against the FLDS is a very
visible symptom of a much more massive disease within Texas CPS. As evidence of
this please refer to their statement at their website. In other words,
that�s our story and we�re sticking to
it, ya�ll.
to realitycheck 4:15 | 4:50 p.m. May 22, 2008
WOW man you are messed up. You are saying that if i dont tell my kids about all
the possibilities, even tho I feel they are damaging, I am abusing them?
Abortion? Gay sex? Animal sex? Guns? War? Drugs? Mindless cartoons? Sex-ed?
Gangs? Porn? Alcohol? Wake up! If the FLDS teach their children to rise early,
study the scriptures, work, bless others - be good people basically - you say
they are abused because they dont know another way??? Wake up, and quit drinking
the media coolaid. There is NO EVIDENCE of any abuse.
Sales, sales, sales... | 4:51 p.m. May 22, 2008
As one might expect, Elissa Wall is standing by, waiting for anyone who is
interested to get her "inside scoop" on the situation. Never mind she
has never been to the ranch. Never mind she committed adultery with and was
impregnated by a man older than her husband while she was yet a minor. Never
mind she has a book to sell. KSL is giving her a platform now and she alleges
the children could "just disappear now".
Utah girl | 4:55 p.m. May 22, 2008
I don't know why everyone is getting so excited about this. It just proves
our court systems aren't working right either! Kids needs to protected and
now Texas isn't going to be protecting them any better than Utah has.
Wake up Aussie | 4:54 p.m. May 22, 2008
You are really one to preach tolerance there Aussie! Your country's past
abuses and negligence towards it aboriginal peoples is a shining example of how
not to treat people with dignity, civility and respect. Go save the Barrier
Reef instead of believing the damnable nonsense you read in the media about the
FLDS people.
realitycheck | 5:00 p.m. May 22, 2008
to Doug S 4:12pm
sorry - had to do this last post to address Doug.
Where did I say they kill children? You again try to twist my words, which said that if they are cruel enough to kill everyone's dogs because the "prophet" told them, with no questions asked, then they could be cruel to their kids if the "prophet" told them to. Do you not understand that cruelty breeds cruelty and is wrong?
And the dogs in shelters are kept as long as they can be so someone can adopt them. FLDS went out and killed all the little kids' pets simply because your "prophet" said to do it. You talk about trauma to a kid's psyche....
And we all note here that AGAIN you didn't deny it happened - you simply tried to divert attention from it by twisting my words. Nice try. Coward.
and why would I sell my house? you gonna sue me for slander? slander only works when statements aren't true and I haven't said anything that's not true. Just because you don't like to be called Taliban doesn't mean it isn't true. You preach of freedom but deny it to your people.
sorry - had to do this last post to address Doug.
Where did I say they kill children? You again try to twist my words, which said that if they are cruel enough to kill everyone's dogs because the "prophet" told them, with no questions asked, then they could be cruel to their kids if the "prophet" told them to. Do you not understand that cruelty breeds cruelty and is wrong?
And the dogs in shelters are kept as long as they can be so someone can adopt them. FLDS went out and killed all the little kids' pets simply because your "prophet" said to do it. You talk about trauma to a kid's psyche....
And we all note here that AGAIN you didn't deny it happened - you simply tried to divert attention from it by twisting my words. Nice try. Coward.
and why would I sell my house? you gonna sue me for slander? slander only works when statements aren't true and I haven't said anything that's not true. Just because you don't like to be called Taliban doesn't mean it isn't true. You preach of freedom but deny it to your people.
Hey Interloper | 5:02 p.m. May 22, 2008
That great sucking sound we hear is your head coming out for a breath of fresh
air.
wyogirl | 5:05 p.m. May 22, 2008
A sad day. I hope these mothers have learned what scum-bags their
"husbands" are - most of them didn't even show up in court. At
least these women had back bone enough to try and get their kids back - I hope
they have back bone enough to leave those men (who won't make them
'real' wives) and make homes of their own for their kids.
It might not be illegal but it is WRONG to treat women and children the way the FLDS do. So, I guess the FLDS benefit from the same system that says its o.k. to kill unborn babies. Children don't have much of a voice in our country do they?
It might not be illegal but it is WRONG to treat women and children the way the FLDS do. So, I guess the FLDS benefit from the same system that says its o.k. to kill unborn babies. Children don't have much of a voice in our country do they?
Stephen | 5:06 p.m. May 22, 2008
Jon: Has anything that you said about abuse been proven in a court of law, or
are you just parroting the liberal press?
RE: Utah Girl | 5:09 p.m. May 22, 2008
You misunderstand the ruling. The appeals court made it very clear that where
EVIDENCE showed abuse, the lower court should act. That's been the problem
with this from the start. The evidence didn't match the actions of Texas
officials.
Too many posting think we who support the appellate court decision support the FLDS. For most of us, that's not the case. We support the constitution and the rule of law, and not the practices of the FLDS.
Too many posting think we who support the appellate court decision support the FLDS. For most of us, that's not the case. We support the constitution and the rule of law, and not the practices of the FLDS.
Hey mormon nickname | 5:15 p.m. May 22, 2008
While those that use the bible are not term bibles, they ALL are termed
Christians.
skeptical | 5:19 p.m. May 22, 2008
I agree that CPS went too far but the FLDS needs to be totally investigated from
the top to the bottom, not just in Texas but in Utah, Arizona, Idaho, Colorado,
South Dakota, and every other place in the U.S. where their secretive practices
have led to fanaticism and abuse. If their "religion" is of God and
wholly built on Him they have nothing to fear. If they are following His ways
the should want to be open for the eyes of all to see their witness for His
kingdom. Their group has every ear mark of a cult and a man's religion
that is a shame to the name of Jesus Christ. If this is not true, they have
nothing to fear in an open scrutiny. If the ex-members who have spoken out are
wrong let them prove it and show everyone that these children are truly in no
danger.
doug | 5:19 p.m. May 22, 2008
perhaps the FLDS should move their community to New York State, where Jewish
control has maintained laws permitting marriage to cousins and between those as
young as 14 for their own benefit.
Texas age of marriage laws were changed after the FLDS started building their ranch in that state.
Another thought. Compared to the rampant 'serial' polygamy, where fathers divorce and abandon family after family leaving them fatherless in order to pursue another woman, a man who loves, supports, and nourishes more than one woman and ALL of their children doesn't look so bad to me.
Texas age of marriage laws were changed after the FLDS started building their ranch in that state.
Another thought. Compared to the rampant 'serial' polygamy, where fathers divorce and abandon family after family leaving them fatherless in order to pursue another woman, a man who loves, supports, and nourishes more than one woman and ALL of their children doesn't look so bad to me.
Descended from polygamists | 5:20 p.m. May 22, 2008
While not defending underage forced marriages and certainly not sexual abuse of
underage girls or anyone for that matter, can't help but feel relief for
the families. CPS or whatever it is called in your state is usually an out of
control organization that most likely answers to no one. Texas should be
ashamed of how this was handled by their elected and appointed officials.
Absolutely pathetic. Kidnapping and false imprisonment is just that whether by
state agencies or criminals. The Governor and the CPS bureaucrats have much to
be held accountable for. I say charge them criminally. They deserve it. It
was all about their hatred of FLDS and their ingrained religious bigotry.
Probably be much weeping and wailing and knashing of teeth in so-called
Christian pews this Sunday.
Toyland is over! | 5:20 p.m. May 22, 2008
Sales, sales, sales... | 4:51 p.m. May 22, 2008
As one might expect, Elissa Wall is standing by,
THE FLDS MEN ARE JEALOUS OF ALISSA! She speaks the truth so these men find it to be righteous to condemn her. Thank goodness there people like Elissa to testify against the FLDS evil abuse. The evil of FLDS men, who don't want their little girl toys to be taken away from them---SOOO SAD!
As one might expect, Elissa Wall is standing by,
THE FLDS MEN ARE JEALOUS OF ALISSA! She speaks the truth so these men find it to be righteous to condemn her. Thank goodness there people like Elissa to testify against the FLDS evil abuse. The evil of FLDS men, who don't want their little girl toys to be taken away from them---SOOO SAD!
magnus | 5:21 p.m. May 22, 2008
Amazing how blind the court of public opinion can be
"Aussie" and others insist that, despite the fact that courts have declared that there is no evidence to support the allegations of abuse that CPS claimed, the FLDS people are "cultish" "abusers" and "pedophiles".
From Websters
"BIGOT (N): a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially one who regards or treats the members of a group (such as a religious, racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance"
The definition of BIGOT doesn't change just because the target of your disdain is incredibly unpopular.
Where wrongs have been done they should be punished but I think it is time to stop treating the FLDS people in general like criminals and start treating them like everybody else.
Thankfully for every bigotted comment there appears to be 10 people willing to step up and call a spade a spade.
Maybe there is still hope for America.
"Aussie" and others insist that, despite the fact that courts have declared that there is no evidence to support the allegations of abuse that CPS claimed, the FLDS people are "cultish" "abusers" and "pedophiles".
From Websters
"BIGOT (N): a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially one who regards or treats the members of a group (such as a religious, racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance"
The definition of BIGOT doesn't change just because the target of your disdain is incredibly unpopular.
Where wrongs have been done they should be punished but I think it is time to stop treating the FLDS people in general like criminals and start treating them like everybody else.
Thankfully for every bigotted comment there appears to be 10 people willing to step up and call a spade a spade.
Maybe there is still hope for America.
Heidi | 5:22 p.m. May 22, 2008
I think it is a sad day! because of the message the court has sent to
poligimasts and everyone- this court by their ruling has sent the message that
what poligimasts and flds church leaders and people of their faith believe and
do and conduct themeselves and what they do to young women and men and the
children is okay! and it's not! i am not saying people have to be LDS but,
wrong is wrong and what was going on and what lead to the raid was apparently
wrong or caused concern enough for CPS to intervene and the authorities to
ibtervene and to warrant the raid!
Answer this: | 5:26 p.m. May 22, 2008
In response to re: re: Re: Mormons, posted at 3:15 p.m., if polygamy has been,
in your opinion, taken from the earth, why did God call it "The New and
EVERLASTING" Covenant at the time it was revealed to Joseph Smith? Do you
think He made a mistake?
(P.S. I'm LDS)
(P.S. I'm LDS)
G | 5:29 p.m. May 22, 2008
"You again try to twist my words, which said that if they are cruel enough
to kill everyone's dogs because the "prophet" told them, with no
questions asked, then they could be cruel to their kids if the
"prophet" told them to. Do you not understand that cruelty breeds
cruelty and is wrong?"
I suppose they COULD harm their children, if they wanted to for some reason. They COULD have done a lot of things. CPS has come up with a lot of speculation in that department. None of that has been proven.
By the way, a lot of people seem to think that eating meat is cruelty. Some other people kill animals as a hobby and bring their six year old kids along (it's called hunting). I guess one group should call CPS on the other, huh?
I don't see why you can't seem to comprehend, realitycheck, that your opinion on how to raise children isn't worth more than anyone else's.
I suppose they COULD harm their children, if they wanted to for some reason. They COULD have done a lot of things. CPS has come up with a lot of speculation in that department. None of that has been proven.
By the way, a lot of people seem to think that eating meat is cruelty. Some other people kill animals as a hobby and bring their six year old kids along (it's called hunting). I guess one group should call CPS on the other, huh?
I don't see why you can't seem to comprehend, realitycheck, that your opinion on how to raise children isn't worth more than anyone else's.
to 4:27pm | 5:31 p.m. May 22, 2008
re: re: Re: Mormons 3:15 p.m. | 4:27 p.m. May 22, 2008
I'm confused about what "old way" or "true way" we (LDS) do not follow. I don't believe God ever intended for us to be locked up in our ivory towers with (our) 3 wives? each thinking of nothing but our own personal salvation. If polygamy is truly God's plan, he will restore it in His own time, not yours. Just because the "way" is old doesn't mean it is.
You look like a FLDS supporter. BUT WE DON"T WANT YOUR KIND!
I hate to break it to you, but YOU WILL NEVER HAVE 3 WIVES IN GODS OWN GIVEN TIME! WISHFUL THINKING ON YOUR PART! We are the true church LDS is not!
I'm confused about what "old way" or "true way" we (LDS) do not follow. I don't believe God ever intended for us to be locked up in our ivory towers with (our) 3 wives? each thinking of nothing but our own personal salvation. If polygamy is truly God's plan, he will restore it in His own time, not yours. Just because the "way" is old doesn't mean it is.
You look like a FLDS supporter. BUT WE DON"T WANT YOUR KIND!
I hate to break it to you, but YOU WILL NEVER HAVE 3 WIVES IN GODS OWN GIVEN TIME! WISHFUL THINKING ON YOUR PART! We are the true church LDS is not!
Heidi, Heidi, Heidi.... | 5:40 p.m. May 22, 2008
-- "what lead to the raid was apparently wrong"? Your right! It is
wrong for people to make hoax phone calls and lie to people who would like to
help those who really need help! It is also wrong for judges to make rulings
based on no evidence! and for religious discrimination to take place in America!
I can see all kinds of things "wrong" with this case.
Raymond Takashi Swenson | 5:43 p.m. May 22, 2008
It is clear that, in the view of the Texas Appeals Court, the state officials
could have pursued a less drastic means of investigating the condition of the
children and ensuring their safety. I have no doubt that the real goal of the
Child Protective Services agency and the police was to isolate the children from
their mothers in order to collect statements to use as evidence in criminal
prosecutions. Basically, they were treating the children the way the US
military handles terrorists that have been captured, keeping them in confined
quarters and working on them to provide information of intelligence value.
These children had, by the assertions of the Child Protective Services, done
nothing criminal themselves, but were victims. Yet CPS was handling them like
criminals or prisoners of war.
Anyone who knows children knows that one of the worst things you can do to a small child is to tear him from his home and mother. It induces anxiety that can persist for years. We worry about combat causing post-traumatic stress disorder, but CPS has intentionally inflicted trauma on all of those children, including ones as young as 12 months old! CPS are the worst abusers.
Anyone who knows children knows that one of the worst things you can do to a small child is to tear him from his home and mother. It induces anxiety that can persist for years. We worry about combat causing post-traumatic stress disorder, but CPS has intentionally inflicted trauma on all of those children, including ones as young as 12 months old! CPS are the worst abusers.
Alex | 5:45 p.m. May 22, 2008
Heidi:
"I think it is a sad day! because of the message the court has sent to poligimasts and everyone- this court by their ruling has sent the message that what poligimasts and flds church leaders and people of their faith believe and do and conduct themeselves and what they do to young women and men and the children is okay! and it's not! "
Its not the job of the court to judge what people believe. Furthermore, their judgment on how the FLDS conduct themselves is limited to what the law dictates and no further.
Why don't you relax, go get your REAL probable cause, show it to the judge, get a warrant and then go back in. Otherwise, get out of their faces. Put up or shut up.
"I think it is a sad day! because of the message the court has sent to poligimasts and everyone- this court by their ruling has sent the message that what poligimasts and flds church leaders and people of their faith believe and do and conduct themeselves and what they do to young women and men and the children is okay! and it's not! "
Its not the job of the court to judge what people believe. Furthermore, their judgment on how the FLDS conduct themselves is limited to what the law dictates and no further.
Why don't you relax, go get your REAL probable cause, show it to the judge, get a warrant and then go back in. Otherwise, get out of their faces. Put up or shut up.
Utah or Texas | 5:48 p.m. May 22, 2008
No respect for the U.S. Constitution
Incarserate the prosecutor | 5:54 p.m. May 22, 2008
The Judge needs locked up too
We the people are speaking
Everyone involved should be locked up
Including the cops
Yhey for sure should know the law and do not
We the people are speaking
Everyone involved should be locked up
Including the cops
Yhey for sure should know the law and do not
Alex | 5:55 p.m. May 22, 2008
To "to 4:27pm":
"YOU WILL NEVER HAVE 3 WIVES IN GODS OWN GIVEN TIME! WISHFUL THINKING ON YOUR PART!..."
Never? How do you figure that? Just because we don't currently practice plural marriage doesn't mean that we will never again do so.
"YOU WILL NEVER HAVE 3 WIVES IN GODS OWN GIVEN TIME! WISHFUL THINKING ON YOUR PART!..."
Never? How do you figure that? Just because we don't currently practice plural marriage doesn't mean that we will never again do so.
magnus | 5:56 p.m. May 22, 2008
@ G (5:29)
Again, excellent points.
@ to 4:27
I'm not really sure what to make of what you just said, are you LDS or not?
And if you are, or even if you arent but still consider yourself a Christian, do you really feel right telling somebody, anybody "WE DON'T WANT YOUR KIND!"??
Jesus certainly never taught anything remotely like that, quite the opposite in fact.
Matt 11:28 "Come unto me, ALL ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest."
3 Nephi 9:14 "Yea, verily I say unto you, if ye will come unto me ye shall have eternal life. Behold, mine arm of mercy is extended towards you, and WHOSOEVER will come, him will I receive; and blessed are those who come unto me."
Moreover if you are LDS I suggest you research the doctorine of the New and Everlasting Covenant of Mairage and the origins and purposes of polygamy before you go spouting off about it.
Again, excellent points.
@ to 4:27
I'm not really sure what to make of what you just said, are you LDS or not?
And if you are, or even if you arent but still consider yourself a Christian, do you really feel right telling somebody, anybody "WE DON'T WANT YOUR KIND!"??
Jesus certainly never taught anything remotely like that, quite the opposite in fact.
Matt 11:28 "Come unto me, ALL ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest."
3 Nephi 9:14 "Yea, verily I say unto you, if ye will come unto me ye shall have eternal life. Behold, mine arm of mercy is extended towards you, and WHOSOEVER will come, him will I receive; and blessed are those who come unto me."
Moreover if you are LDS I suggest you research the doctorine of the New and Everlasting Covenant of Mairage and the origins and purposes of polygamy before you go spouting off about it.
Bruce | 5:59 p.m. May 22, 2008
"If polygamy is truly God's plan, he will restore it in His own time,
not yours."
He did. The breakaway mainstream LDS traded statehood for priesthood authority, but the "new and everlasting covenant" (not some temporary one until secular law makes it rough to comply with) lives on. Read John Taylor's revelation written in his own hand.
This is why I am inactive LDS.
It is a wonderful day. I wish these families well.
He did. The breakaway mainstream LDS traded statehood for priesthood authority, but the "new and everlasting covenant" (not some temporary one until secular law makes it rough to comply with) lives on. Read John Taylor's revelation written in his own hand.
This is why I am inactive LDS.
It is a wonderful day. I wish these families well.
Malinda | 6:02 p.m. May 22, 2008
What is happening to these people IS religious persecution! If that were to
happen where I live it would have taken away two whole grade schools worth of
children. You don't know how you feel about that? How would you feel if
someone up your street did something bad and so the "State" came to
YOUR house and took your kids because you live on the same street? As a parent
this is a frightening precedent . They have separated families and traumatized
the children with no proof of wrongdoing. If someone is being abused they SHOULD
take care of them by finding out who it is that is getting hurt and take THEM. I
am not of their religion. How would we feel if these had been Catholic or
Protestant children. Would we stand by and let this happen? Do you think that
all those children were placed in great foster homes? How many of them might be
emotionally or physically hurt in the homes they were all sent to? Home where
adults do not care a bit for them. Some people really are just in the foster
care system to get a paycheck people!
Matthew | 6:05 p.m. May 22, 2008
Is anyone really surprised? One can hope not. Some may be disappointed but the
actions were so aggregeously wrong that the long term outcome was certain.
Brother Chuck Schroeder | 6:13 p.m. May 22, 2008
A liberal activist judges let these terrible law braking FLDS poeple hide behind
the Constitutionimmunity, these FLDS are not Native American people living in a
tribe on Federal protected land, they do NOT have any immunity to the law
either. We know the FLDS are not LDS Mormons, just a spin-off clut and they have
large communities in Utah, Arizona, Texas, and Canada. ALL those men who married
these underage girls and the women that married the underage boys to, should be
prosecuted to the full extent of the law and have those kid's removed from
them by the letter of the law and put in prison to rot.
Doug S | 6:24 p.m. May 22, 2008
Realitycheck, what the heck are you talking about with your "again"
talk? My previous post was the first one to this thread. Perhaps you confuse
me with "doug", or another poster here?
The meaning of your post that I responded to was abundantly clear. Perhaps now would be a good time to remind you that this isn't like the Trib boards, where when someone calls you on the bunk you spouted you get to just go back and edit your comment. What you wrote is up, and it's up to stay.
A simple "Yes, my prior post was misleading. I was carried away in the moment, and I apologize" will do nicely.
The meaning of your post that I responded to was abundantly clear. Perhaps now would be a good time to remind you that this isn't like the Trib boards, where when someone calls you on the bunk you spouted you get to just go back and edit your comment. What you wrote is up, and it's up to stay.
A simple "Yes, my prior post was misleading. I was carried away in the moment, and I apologize" will do nicely.
Fred | 6:34 p.m. May 22, 2008
"In response to re: re: Re: Mormons, posted at 3:15 p.m., if polygamy has
been, in your opinion, taken from the earth, why did God call it "The New
and EVERLASTING" Covenant at the time it was revealed to Joseph
Smith?"
Read it again. The New and Everlasting Covenant is that Covenants, contracts, bonds, etc., must be sealed by the Holy Spirit of Promise. That's it. Has nothing to do with polygamy.
"Do you think He made a mistake?"
Many do.
Read it again. The New and Everlasting Covenant is that Covenants, contracts, bonds, etc., must be sealed by the Holy Spirit of Promise. That's it. Has nothing to do with polygamy.
"Do you think He made a mistake?"
Many do.
doug | 6:38 p.m. May 22, 2008
AND FURTHERMORE:
....genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
* (e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.
Adopted by Resolution 260 (III) A of the United Nations General Assembly on 9 December 1948.
....genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
* (e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.
Adopted by Resolution 260 (III) A of the United Nations General Assembly on 9 December 1948.
Anonymous | 6:41 p.m. May 22, 2008
it's unfortunate that all this started by a prank
zoar | 6:51 p.m. May 22, 2008
Raymond Takashi Swenson:
"Anyone who knows children knows that one of the worst things you can do to a small child is to tear him from his home and mother. It induces anxiety that can persist for years. We worry about combat causing post-traumatic stress disorder, but CPS has intentionally inflicted trauma on all of those children, including ones as young as 12 months old! CPS are the worst abusers."
You have a really good point there. How much do you think a jury would award the parents for pain and suffering on behalf of a child that was taken by force from his mother and placed into the custody of strangers. That is a very traumatic experience for someone so young to go through. If I were on such a jury, I would vote for whatever monetary figure the plaintiffs were demanding.
After this is all over, there will be a lot of rich FLDS people, thanks to Texas CPS.
"Anyone who knows children knows that one of the worst things you can do to a small child is to tear him from his home and mother. It induces anxiety that can persist for years. We worry about combat causing post-traumatic stress disorder, but CPS has intentionally inflicted trauma on all of those children, including ones as young as 12 months old! CPS are the worst abusers."
You have a really good point there. How much do you think a jury would award the parents for pain and suffering on behalf of a child that was taken by force from his mother and placed into the custody of strangers. That is a very traumatic experience for someone so young to go through. If I were on such a jury, I would vote for whatever monetary figure the plaintiffs were demanding.
After this is all over, there will be a lot of rich FLDS people, thanks to Texas CPS.
Relieved Texan | 6:51 p.m. May 22, 2008
No one wants children to be abused, but to remove children from their parents
requires proof of abuse by each parent against their children. The court
conducted one mass hearing that covered over 400 kids. No family's case was
evaluated individually to prove any abuse to any one child by any specific
person. Then, under the guise of "fairness" the lower courts conducted
"hearings" this week. However, the courts didn't entertain
evidence to whether or not each parent had abused their child. The hearings
were merely to discuss family service plans.
The appellate court found that the CPS did not present enough facts under Texas law for the removal and that the lower court should not have allowed the removal to continue on the facts presented at that time.
This is nothing new. Texas CPS does this every day to thousands of individuals and I hope that the attention brought about by this case will result in some new, stricter, rules about what constitutes abuse. As a member of the legal profession here, I have seen, first hand, the abuse of power by this organization.
The appellate court found that the CPS did not present enough facts under Texas law for the removal and that the lower court should not have allowed the removal to continue on the facts presented at that time.
This is nothing new. Texas CPS does this every day to thousands of individuals and I hope that the attention brought about by this case will result in some new, stricter, rules about what constitutes abuse. As a member of the legal profession here, I have seen, first hand, the abuse of power by this organization.
How nice it will be to see | 6:55 p.m. May 22, 2008
How nice it will be to see these poor children "needing" therapy
because the Bigger and Better than thou STATE of TEXAS decided to play
Hitler.
It's one thing to question the parents, but to take children away from their mothers unlawfully and most importantly without factual evidence is above anything I have ever heard in this so called "Free Country."
I am as sad as I can be for these children and the trauma they have had to endure at the expense of mentally unstable idiots who just do what they are asked and ruin lives of many many children and mothers.
I can't wait for the reuniting not only to begin, but to be finished.
And I hope every last one of these horrible people have to answer for their actions in the guise of CPS workers. Right!!!
It's one thing to question the parents, but to take children away from their mothers unlawfully and most importantly without factual evidence is above anything I have ever heard in this so called "Free Country."
I am as sad as I can be for these children and the trauma they have had to endure at the expense of mentally unstable idiots who just do what they are asked and ruin lives of many many children and mothers.
I can't wait for the reuniting not only to begin, but to be finished.
And I hope every last one of these horrible people have to answer for their actions in the guise of CPS workers. Right!!!
bilbo | 6:57 p.m. May 22, 2008
to all you FLDS defenders....the ones who resent the adult fathers/underage
mothers being curtailed in their family duties.....A Man Who Will Not Provide
For His Family Is Worse Than An Infidel.
check out this Bliblical doctrine...a whole new slant what is going on in AZ and Utah.
I am a Constitutionalist....not a defender of old men/young girls spiritul marriages.
check out this Bliblical doctrine...a whole new slant what is going on in AZ and Utah.
I am a Constitutionalist....not a defender of old men/young girls spiritul marriages.
Ing | 7:06 p.m. May 22, 2008
I've been reading these comments with interest.
I had thought about responding to "reality check" calling me out, but other commenters have already done a great job of showing just how much "reality check" needs one.
Thanks, Doug S. and "G", for your good sense.
I'll say again what I've said before: The Texas CPS response to the allegations of abuse at the FLDS community was wrongheaded, highly unethical (should be illegal and unconstitutional), and has caused incalculable, irreparable damage to several hundred children.
The appeals court ruling, which is based on factual evidence--actually the CPS's lack of it--bears that out.
Eventually the state of Texas might get down to doing what should have been done, which was to evaluate the evidence and act on a case-by-case basis instead of traumatizing 400+ children with this travesty of a rescue.
Brings to mind a saying I've often heard: "The operation was a success but the patient died."
I had thought about responding to "reality check" calling me out, but other commenters have already done a great job of showing just how much "reality check" needs one.
Thanks, Doug S. and "G", for your good sense.
I'll say again what I've said before: The Texas CPS response to the allegations of abuse at the FLDS community was wrongheaded, highly unethical (should be illegal and unconstitutional), and has caused incalculable, irreparable damage to several hundred children.
The appeals court ruling, which is based on factual evidence--actually the CPS's lack of it--bears that out.
Eventually the state of Texas might get down to doing what should have been done, which was to evaluate the evidence and act on a case-by-case basis instead of traumatizing 400+ children with this travesty of a rescue.
Brings to mind a saying I've often heard: "The operation was a success but the patient died."
Michigan man | 7:09 p.m. May 22, 2008
As a note of correction on some previous comments it should be emphatically
stated that the LDS (WHQ: Salt Lake City), RLDS/Community of Christ, Strangite,
Hedrickite/Church of Christ-Temple Lot, and a few others splintered off from The
Church of Jesus Christ (WHQ: Monongahela, Pennsylvania, aka, The Bickerton
Organization), and not the other way around. Please do not err my friends.
peter paul | 7:13 p.m. May 22, 2008
what happened to those poor women and childern was black hearted evil in the
eyes of god,i am not a mormon,but my heart is with them for i have had mormons
that befriended me and my children,when i had nothing in my life,they were the
best friends i ever had decent god fearing people,i truely believe in my heart
that the women and childern should have never been seperated,for the men if they
were doing wrong thats a whole different matter for men must keep within
boundries of moral decency when it effects the lives of there families i truly
believe that god will prevail and open the hearts of the godless devils that
have caused so much pain to the innocent in this rush to bear false witness to
these good mothers and childern,may gods heavenly host protect them in their
suffering,i am 62yrs of age and raised two daughters,on my own,i have 8 grand
children and i can say if it were not for a mormon named phil wallace and his
mrs i would have never survived in being able to make it,if the world had more
mormons the world would be better.
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Now there is a new problem, the remaining pubescent children and their relation to or expected exposure to underage marriage. This can still proceed.
It's probably for the best, the State of Texas was estimating the cost for the childrens's housing and additional workers hours at $30 million for 2008. They still might face civil rights lawsuits on behalf of the prepubescents.
Expect the cases to devolve down to those where there is actual evidence. It's unfortunate that the San Angelo CPS and court didn't read the US Constitution before wasting the taxpayers money. It trumps all religions.