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Appeals court rules Texas acted improperly in removing FLDS children
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Heather D | 11:18 a.m. May 22, 2008
High time.
samhill | 11:24 a.m. May 22, 2008
Finally!
Despite the many examples of its paucity, I just knew there was some common sense in Texas.
I hope they haven't already messed up whatever chance there might have been to actually rectify whatever real abuse there might be at the YFZ Ranch.
It would be a double tragedy if, while ostensibly attempting to help these children and traumatizing the kids in the process, they actually impair any further efforts to help them in a proper way.
Despite the many examples of its paucity, I just knew there was some common sense in Texas.
I hope they haven't already messed up whatever chance there might have been to actually rectify whatever real abuse there might be at the YFZ Ranch.
It would be a double tragedy if, while ostensibly attempting to help these children and traumatizing the kids in the process, they actually impair any further efforts to help them in a proper way.
Sandy & Family | 11:26 a.m. May 22, 2008
Way to go court of appeals!!!!!! It is about time so CPS get off your duffs and
give these kids back. A higher court has ruled you were wrong so take your
illegal activity among each other. You are kidnappers and you should all be
thrown in jail. Better cut your losses and get out of the game. You have lost
the higher courts win.
Comments continue below
COSMO | 11:28 a.m. May 22, 2008
Marleigh Meisner; I think you are not going to get that Merit Raise. No children
to sell, no money.
Gov. Perry; start looking for another job!
TEXAS CPS;get ready for Hell!
Seig Heil, Ya'll!
Gov. Perry; start looking for another job!
TEXAS CPS;get ready for Hell!
Seig Heil, Ya'll!
59 year old dad | 11:37 a.m. May 22, 2008
YES! Finally another court with some authority has weighed in on the outrageous
actions of the CPS. Get the kids back home now! Save Texas $21,000,000 a year.
Give the FLDS a chance to adapt to existing laws. They are paying their taxes,
industriously building their community, and surely there is a middle ground to
be found that precludes possibilities of child abuse, yet allows them to
practice their religion in peace.
Gloating FLDS | 11:36 a.m. May 22, 2008
To Sandy, Cosmo, Bruce, and all of the other FLDS, congratulations on a game
well played. You're free to continue abusing your children, for now.
Don't get too comfortable in your temporary victory, however, the eyes of Texas are still on you.
Don't get too comfortable in your temporary victory, however, the eyes of Texas are still on you.
Sad Day | 11:38 a.m. May 22, 2008
I feel sorry for the FLDS children and mothers who may have lost their only
chance to escape from the clutches of Warren Jeffs.
E Plurus Unum | 11:39 a.m. May 22, 2008
To all the CPS workers who have spent their days posting here instead of doing
something useful. Get ready to be sued, personally, for your involvement in
this. And remember the bright side, criminal prosecution for unlawful
imprisonment and civil rights violations is not out of the question. You can
plead 'I was just following orders' just like the Nazi concentration
camp guards did.
Observer1 | 11:39 a.m. May 22, 2008
I have mixed feelings about this whole fiasco. On one hand, the state clearly
had no right to take the kids in the manner in which they did. However, there
are serious issues in the FLDS culture that clearly deserve attention. I
sincerely hope this whole mess gets straightened out one way or another. I
think this episode is only going to make the FLDS stronger and WEALTHIER once
the lawsuits against the state get settled.
Bruce | 11:41 a.m. May 22, 2008
Yes! Best news in awhile. I hope these good families are reunited soon.
I realize that the FLDS are not vincictive people but, just this once, I'd like to see them make Texas pay through the nose. It couldn't happen to a more deserving state.
Ms. Meisner's pants suit is going to be in a wad over this one.
I realize that the FLDS are not vincictive people but, just this once, I'd like to see them make Texas pay through the nose. It couldn't happen to a more deserving state.
Ms. Meisner's pants suit is going to be in a wad over this one.
ThankGod | 11:43 a.m. May 22, 2008
I have been following this illegal raid since it started and from all the way in
Michigan prayed that this day would come. It is wonderful to see that a judge is
able to see this for what it really was (Religious Persecution) and will finally
let these traumatized Children go home to their Mothers.
Re: Sad Day | 11:43 a.m. May 22, 2008
They have minds of their own, they will see who he really is. As for this
ruling, YEH!!! Finally, someone genuinely caring about the children!!! Now
maybe a good outcome with compromise can take place instead of just a bunch of
bullies acting on hatred and gossip.
Ken Baguley | 11:44 a.m. May 22, 2008
Well, I did make a prediction they had better have their ducks in a row or
they'd be in deep yogurt...
L. G. KIRKPATRICK | 11:45 a.m. May 22, 2008
So, when do the CPS and the Baptist buses start taking the children back to the
ranch?
I congratulate the FLDS, and sincerely thank the Court for its discernment.
I congratulate the FLDS, and sincerely thank the Court for its discernment.
ClubStyle_DJ | 11:47 a.m. May 22, 2008
Anybody got a good recipe for CROW? Maybe a nice FOOT souffle.
G | 11:48 a.m. May 22, 2008
That does not mean that this is in any way or matter, over with.
Its immoral | 11:49 a.m. May 22, 2008
The FLDS is nothing more than a disgusting cult. I hope Warren Jeffs spends the
rest of his natural life in prison. The states of Utah and Arizona should be
ashamed for allowing this to continue.
Ray | 11:52 a.m. May 22, 2008
This is GREAT news, but only for 48 of the families perhaps. Only 48 mothers
were part of the appeal. Love to see what's next!
Lilathe | 11:54 a.m. May 22, 2008
Thank God. I was beginning to think that my state was no longer a safe place to
live if you had children.
D | 11:53 a.m. May 22, 2008
If anyone thinks this is the end of the game, guess again. Those kids are going
to be caught between different courts for a long time to come.
And lets be serious, if anyone knows anything about Texas Baptists, it's that their stubborn and persistent. Do you really think their going to take this lying down? Now the FLDS really has a problem.
And lets be serious, if anyone knows anything about Texas Baptists, it's that their stubborn and persistent. Do you really think their going to take this lying down? Now the FLDS really has a problem.
Non-Texan | 11:53 a.m. May 22, 2008
Finally, there is someone that believes in applying the laws of the United
States instead of allowing Texas to practice NAZI Germany tactics. Now Texas
should focus on procesuting the guilty and leaving the innocent citizens alone.
MEMO to the FLDS, leave Texas while you still have a chance. Texans will not
stop the persecution (with or without the help of the courts) until you leave.
North Dakota has plenty of space. P.S. SUE TEXAS INTO OBLIVION.
Funny | 11:55 a.m. May 22, 2008
It's funny how when this initially happened everyone commenting was for
removal of the kids. Now that the tide has turned, they are against. Such
wishy washy people. At least Texas has the cajones to try and resolve the issue
whether or not it is a popular one. I agree with G, it ain't over with
yet.
Proud to BE an American | 11:56 a.m. May 22, 2008
This is wonderful news....It is nice to see our checks and balances system at
work. Our founding fathers were truely inspired and I hope as American Citizens
we never lose sight of that and always hold our governments accountable to the
very fibers that this great country was set up under.
SLC gal | 11:56 a.m. May 22, 2008
The gas crisis is over now that those parents no longer have to drive to see
their kids. This is a great day in America!!!
Legal Slap | 11:56 a.m. May 22, 2008
Don't spend that lawsuit windfall too quickly!
CPS may have followed their guidelines a little too closely in taking all of the children, but the FLDS would be foolish to sue the CPS.
In filing lawsuits, the FLDS could expose some nasty little secrets about their practices that they would rather not have revealed.
CPS may have followed their guidelines a little too closely in taking all of the children, but the FLDS would be foolish to sue the CPS.
In filing lawsuits, the FLDS could expose some nasty little secrets about their practices that they would rather not have revealed.
Watcher | 11:59 a.m. May 22, 2008
The FLDS are still law breaking criminals! Too bad that this stuff goes on in
the USA.
Anonymous | 11:59 a.m. May 22, 2008
Flds played the game well.. but the kids still lose because they will now be
returned to be abused more.. Way to go appeals court for allowing this to
happen!
!
!
FLDS Brother | 12:00 p.m. May 22, 2008
Since the higher courts ruling, does that mean it can be ignored by cps and
state of Texas? you and I are vindictive, I'd sue the pant suit off meisner
and all cps and Tx...but that is not the way of flds, nor the way of the
Saviour. Please let us all know if the children will now be returned and about
the high court that I asked, someone...not familiar with all of that...I love
the FLDS people and I have been in fasting and prayer. LDS convert (8 months
ago.) Hallelujah. There is Justice after all.
E Plurus Unum | 11:59 a.m. May 22, 2008
Just wait until the children can finally start telling their stories of the hell
they went through in foster care. Anyone and everyone associated with the
foster care system is well aware of its enormous short comings. Statistically
several of these children are going to have heart-breaking stories to tell of
abuse and neglect while under the care of CPS. Soon to be broadcast across
national news. Thing is, the CPS workers are legally speaking, personally
liable in cases like this.
Sue the CPS | 12:00 p.m. May 22, 2008
I am so grateful that there are judges who care about the Constitution!
Regardless of what people might think about the lifestyle and beliefs of this
group, what the CPS did was unconstitutional and wrong. In general, I think
people are too quick to sue, however, in this case, I hope the FLDS mothers sue
the CPS for violating their rights.
donn | 12:00 p.m. May 22, 2008
The longer they keep the children the bigger the pay off for the FLDS Way to go
Appeals court a court that can understand the law.
Staying Sweet | 12:01 p.m. May 22, 2008
Hopefully, DFWPS will comply with the Court order and send the children home
immediately.
Brother Chuck Schroeder | 12:01 p.m. May 22, 2008
I GUESS the Austin appeals court, that ruled?, "HA!." - the Texas
child welfare authorities acted improperly in removing more than 450 children
from the FLDS church's YFZ Ranch, likes to legislate from the bench as a
Judicial Activist. The so called "spin-off" cult Fundamentalist LDS
Church with or without a search warrant needs to START remembering, along with
their Salt Lake City attorney acting as a spokesman for the FLDS Church, remove
all their kid's, and lock up in prison the "PARENT'S" of
said children. They broke more than one law - NOW DEAL WITH IT. That's
"MY" view. If you can't do the time, than don't do the
crime. VERY SIMPLE. Lock them all up today and toss away the key.
HD | 12:02 p.m. May 22, 2008
This entire incident should open the eyes of everyone as to the practices and
teachings of groups that hide behind religion to justify their actions. I
don't believe that anyone posting to this site supports marrying off
underage girls to older men. I hope that this incident has also opened the eyes
of the FLDS and impresses upon them that they live in the US and there are laws
that we all uphold for the benefit of everyone. You cannot simply isolate
children and women by force from the rest of the world. Hopefully, the
information from both sides of the table will finally be out in the open for the
rest of us to understand.
Sad day | 12:06 p.m. May 22, 2008
Texas probably did go too far, but these kids and moms are the true losers here.
More kids will be trafficked to and from Canada. These kids have no chance. I
just hope the FLDS change their ways. Tired of them getting away with breaking
the law because of "freedom of religion"
Lawsuits against Texas | 12:06 p.m. May 22, 2008
Folks, there is a legal doctrine of "sovereign immunity" which
protects government workers in fulfillment of their official duties. FLDS is
not going to get rich on this.
uncannygunman | 12:08 p.m. May 22, 2008
Very interesting . . . .
Only affects 48 moms | 12:11 p.m. May 22, 2008
From the San Angelo newspaper:
The decision only affects the 48 mothers that Texas RioGrande Legal Aide represents in their custody cases, according to NBC, which has partnered with the Standard-Times in coverage of the sect case. Cynthia Martinez of the Texas RioGrande Legal Aide told NBC the ruling does not affect all the mothers and children from FLDS.
The decision only affects the 48 mothers that Texas RioGrande Legal Aide represents in their custody cases, according to NBC, which has partnered with the Standard-Times in coverage of the sect case. Cynthia Martinez of the Texas RioGrande Legal Aide told NBC the ruling does not affect all the mothers and children from FLDS.
Jon | 12:12 p.m. May 22, 2008
I'm not sure how I feel about this. If they're being abused then
something needs to be done, but at the same time, it probably was illegal the
way Texas went about taking the children (and according to the court, it was).
Wasn't this whole thing started with a hoax phone call? But at the same
time, girls are being forced into marriages they don't want, getting
pregnant by close relatives, being raped. It's not a good situation, but
Texas may have made matters worse by trying to help (like one poster said
earlier). Thus, it's hard to know how to feel about this.
re: Brother Chuck | 12:13 p.m. May 22, 2008
Hey, post your address, we'll send CPS over to snatch YOUR kids and throw
away the key!
You are not a child abuser? Unm, so what, we'll just make up a pitiful story which, IF TRUE, would make you the sleaziest of the low, and then we will say we must stop you from imparting your sleaze onto your kids! Oh but it's not true, you are not all that sleazy? CPS does not need facts, you idiot, they have been proudly playing this whole thing on lie after lie after lie AS IF there was abuse!!
You are not a child abuser? Unm, so what, we'll just make up a pitiful story which, IF TRUE, would make you the sleaziest of the low, and then we will say we must stop you from imparting your sleaze onto your kids! Oh but it's not true, you are not all that sleazy? CPS does not need facts, you idiot, they have been proudly playing this whole thing on lie after lie after lie AS IF there was abuse!!
Weighing in | 12:14 p.m. May 22, 2008
To the person who said that, "It's funny how when this initially
happened everyone commenting was for removal of the kids. Now that the tide has
turned, they are against. Such wishy washy people...", some of us have been
saying "Return the kids" since day one... but most of the folks who
felt that way seem to have been to scared to open their mouths and speak out
against the violation of civil rights that the Texas CPS perpetrated. It seems
that people are only willing to open their mouths about unconstitutional
behavior and gestapo-like tactics, secrecy, and civil rights violations when
they think everyone will agree with them -- like our civil rights can be
superseded by someone else's ideas of what is "moral", or
"holy". Supposedly, all these folks have the same God -- and yet they
are willing to sacrifice basic human rights in favor of repression and sectist
moralizing.
Sovereign Immunity | 12:14 p.m. May 22, 2008
Sovereign immunity only works if the law has been followed. I'd argue that
the methods imployed have violated many individual rights. If the FLDS do sue
the state it will be over violation of their rights. CPS isn't immune as
other court cases have shown.
Reason prevails | 12:14 p.m. May 22, 2008
Thank goodness the court was not depending on gossip but instead facts. The
removal of scripture was an affront to anybody that believes in ANY sort of
scripture and as an agnostic I was personally horrified yet so many here missed
the big picture for the gossip of the disenfranchised.
Agnostic mother of 3
Agnostic mother of 3
cool your jets, people | 12:16 p.m. May 22, 2008
this is only just getting started.
the only winners after it is all over will be the kids (who will be liberated, have no doubt) and the FLDS crook lawyer$
the only winners after it is all over will be the kids (who will be liberated, have no doubt) and the FLDS crook lawyer$
re: legal slap | 12:16 p.m. May 22, 2008
Violating a person's constitutional rights, lying to them to steal their
children, forcing them to have their DNA tested, lying about the ages of the
mothers to boost their claims is more, I would hope, than following "their
guidelines a little too closely". If their guidelines call for such
illegal tactics, their guidelines need to be re-evaluated.
If the children had been in imminent danger they would have been justified, but they weren't.
"Who watches the watchers?"
If the children had been in imminent danger they would have been justified, but they weren't.
"Who watches the watchers?"
DNews on site ??? | 12:17 p.m. May 22, 2008
... and/or spoke directly to the lawyer? Well, I guess it is 'church'
news.
Sovereign Immunity | 12:17 p.m. May 22, 2008
Sovereign Immunity may not apply if civil rights have been violated and I
suspect they have. If the FLD decided to sue for civil rights violations in
federal court, sovereign immunity can be pushed to the side.
CPS Give them Back NOW | 12:17 p.m. May 22, 2008
If I were a parent, I would rush to the foster home, tear up my service plan and
DEMAND my children returned to me. I would leave the court room and leave that
service plan behind and go get my children. How long will it take for CPS to
return them? I want the INNOCENT families (which it seems now only one underage
girl is there so far..not 31 but SHE should not be punished..give her children
back!) reunited ASAP..we have done enough damage and trauma that will last a
lifetime to these children apparently...we need to do what we can to help them
heal.
hamm | 12:17 p.m. May 22, 2008
Good ruling. Remember, we are only as free as our most oppressed neighbors.
Southern girl | 12:17 p.m. May 22, 2008
Maybe Utah could see to legally become a nation of there own....Then all you
crazy Mormons could live and BREED all the cult babies you'd like!!!! You
are all NUTS!
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