Deseret News | FLDS members fear possibility of a second raid

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FLDS members fear possibility of a second raid

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realitycheck | 2:52 p.m. May 22, 2008

to justthefactsmaan-

my plan? my plan is to be a good honest person my whole life. And try to help and protect the weak. That will be enough to get anywhere you could get to, but while still being my own person instead of a sheep. if your God wants you to worship Him, doesn't that mean he's vain? sorry - mine's not vain. Mine simply wants me to be a good person and do good things - like NOT subjegating women and children into servitude in His name.

must suck not having your own opinion. might as well be FLDS as that is their way too.

You still haven't figured out that a God is so powerful that doing all the whack things you do mean absolutely nothing to Him, and if you would just be a good person thats all he wants? And you can pray and worship Him all you want and it won't do you any good if you forced innocent women and children to be subservent to you. (They're not being subservent to God - they're being subservant to MEN. Now THAT'S gonna piss him off...)

realitycheck | 3:01 p.m. May 22, 2008

by the way, Justthefactsmaan -

haven't you yet figured out that MEN wrote those books, not God? God is in your heart, dude - not in some book.

Granny Relda | 3:04 p.m. May 22, 2008

If any abuse had actually occurred, the perpetrators would've been ARRESTED and placed in custody. That's the norm for criminal offences. TX CPS did what they always do: took the innocent and left the supposedly 'guilty' at large. Does that sound reasonable? No officer of the law would agree to leaving offenders running around, would they? SO... let's see. No arrests have been made. No offenders are in custody. The parents are all in plain sight, in court every few days. Hm. Why hasn't anyone been arrested so the kids can go home? Duh. The state gets LOTS of $ for every kid in the system. Give the kids back and the $ stops. CPS has bankrupted social security. Check the facts. It's all about the $. Oh, and re: warrants? Google Calabretta v Floyd. It's a CA ruling that makes it quite clear: CPS workers are held to the same standard as cops, hence warrants ARE REQUIRED. TX is gonna pay through the nose on this one, I hope.

Comments continue below

Earl re: Angry in N.H. | 3:44 p.m. May 22, 2008

"If constitutional order cannot be restored by our legitimate government, it is time to consider the possibility our right to revolt."

You no longer have the right to revolt. That part of the constitution was made illegal some time ago.
To take up arms against the government is treason by law.
The powers that control such things made it illegal to overthrow them.

dkdad in New Hampshire | 4:44 p.m. May 22, 2008

I see the CPS of TX scrambling to save face in this fiasco. Where is the outrage? Since when can any enforcement agency make accusations against the whole apartment building when the crime committed was only in one apartment. Where are the women and children leaping with joy when they were rescued by CPS and El Dorado law enforcement officials? There were none - these people were content with themselves and didn't pose a threat to anyone else. Is this a case of the pan calling the frying pan black? Who are those without sin who can cast the first stone? Why do we sit idly by and watch the trampling of rights in America - and yet champion it for other countries. I believe this is called hypocrisy. Free the children. Come up with a viable abuse case and prosecute it. Who would think we could see this travesty in this "free" and "constitutional" country? Free the children and return their religious books to them. I get more disgusted each time I read of the "strong arm of the law" and it's constitutional disregard.

Rich | 4:46 p.m. May 22, 2008

No need to worry about another raid now, folks. The CPS folks are going to have their hands full trying to keep the kids they already have taken from going back to their parents.

This whole things reminds me of "Animal Farm" and "1984," two books that were required reading in my high school. The authors of those books probably did not realize how quickly America would come to embrace socialism as well as to tolerate and even ask for increased power for Big Brother in every facet of our lives. If we pass a national health care system bill, watch for even more intervention and interference from our governments. You certainly will be prohibited from doing anything that would increase governmental costs of caring medically for its citizens. I predict you'll pay taxes on certain foods that contain high content in fat, sugar or salt. Certain activities will be outlawed, particularly skateboarding, bicycle riding and motorcycle riding. Skiing could go next. And if dangerous activities are not banned, you'll have to pay a tax to cover the perceived additional costs encumbering the government for your risky behavior. Just wait, folks.

Whitey | 4:54 p.m. May 22, 2008

The comments are full of state agents commending the state. In the US you are innocent until proven guilty. In communist Russia you had to prove your innocence. In Russia they assaulted religious folks because they folled God's law not man's (competition w/ the state). The state officials and agents commenting on here are enemies of the people. We are engaged in a massive psychological war because if they attacked us all our right we would hang them all and kick their butts out of the country, hence the incrementalism. They propagandize our children via public schools for 13 years and television. WAKE UP!!

Whitey | 5:03 p.m. May 22, 2008

"Free the Slaves:Wake up women of the FLDS! These are your children! And you have contributed to their abuse! I know you are frightened. ... but it is never right to abuse a child.

Honest people who are truly concerned about the welfare of the FLDS women and children, should be focusing their disgust and anger at the FLDS leadership and men, NOT at CPS, which is trying to protect the rights of the children."

You are dishonest beyond belief. There is NO EVIDENCE of ABUSE you liar! Honest people should be infuriated that children have been taken from their parents. It IS LEGAL to marry at the age of 16 in Texas you lying disingenuous slime bag! This is the same statist behavior that the communists engaged in. I know what I would do if I were the parent of any of these stolen children...the same thing any parent should do when their progeny are stolen...

Whitey | 5:56 p.m. May 22, 2008

"Freedom from religion: I'm for passing laws that limit religious teachings to those over 18 years of age. Children do not have religious beliefs, they are indoctrinated by their parents and communities. Once they are adults they can choose their own beliefs. Or, more likely, will not choose any religion once they've developed the ability to think for themselves and see the ridiculous and conflicting themes of scripture. Thank goodness for secular laws of common decency. "Lord" help us if we still abided by the morals of the old testiment. "

Are you also for limiting government education to only those who are over 18? If not then you are dishonest or ignorant. When children are made to "pledge allegiance" they are being behaviorally conditioned. They are too young to understand and thus they never question the pledge. Governments are responsible for more death and killing in the last century. Do you support getting rid of government indoctrination centers(public schools) and allowing the parents to decide how and what to educate their child with?

Major Problem | 6:02 p.m. May 22, 2008

Police are over agressive with the public of which there are suppost to serve
Not beat up

CPS went overboard | 6:24 p.m. May 22, 2008

BUT, have we forgotten that FLDS marry teenagers??

What is wrong with this picture? Who is really protecting these kids? It is obvious that CPS cannot. and have we also forgotten the mothers and their chanting of 'no one is forced, no one is forced, no one is forced'. (Dang, now that I just wrote that three times I almost started believing it.)

To realitycheck | 6:35 p.m. May 22, 2008

"And you can pray and worship Him all you want and it won't do you any good if you forced innocent women and children to be subservient to you. (They're not being subservient to God - they're being subservient to MEN."

WELL SAID!!!

Non-Statist | 7:02 p.m. May 22, 2008

"CPS denying FLDS women and children their rights???

The real culprit is the FLDS leaders and men."

The CPS is holding children captive. The CPS does not have any right to take children from these parents period. These people have not been convicted of any thing. There was a phone call made which was not substantiated and then these families lives have been wrecked.

Move to Russia or China if you think the state has business raising other people's children.

mypc46 | 8:42 p.m. May 22, 2008

to reality check: you are a guy..no wonder. You know them made you use rhythm.not birth control..thus 8 kids for me. and when #6 almost killed me my doctor made me go have an abortion next time when at 6 weeks i had albumin ,high bp and high blood sugar. the last time in labor i was at stroke stage& even 7 shots did not help. Then when i begged for forgiveness the priest said I could never be forgiven..tell me about the catholics again. Oh and in Italy my grandmother was promised at age 5 in marriage. she worked in a factory at age 8. yep them catholics are really grand. I was baptised at st raphaels in sunnyside NY as an infant and was captive to the nuns as well. Do NOT tell me what to say about the people who messed up my head. when my other grandparents took me I was terrified as they took me to their church where i thought I was gonna be burned in hell for going. man 61 years and still scared of the church..

Granny Relda | 9:30 p.m. May 22, 2008

Just a thought here: I have always taught my children (all 6 of them, willingly conceived, joyfully birthed) that anything and anyone who takes away your freedom of choice is not of God. Period. Now, when you look at things from that perspective, it makes it quite clear who is a prophet of God and who is not. Mr. Jeffs cannot be a prophet of God, anymore than Mohammed was. Oddly, none of the prophets contradict each other in the scriptures; Mohammed alone denies the Christ, denies the Plan of Salvation, and generally and in every detail acts as an Anti-Christ. Oh, and the Muslim faith allows marriage as young as 14, forced marriage, right in the heart of America. But because those marriages are not civil, but religious (read:spiritual) there is no record of them for the Gov't to glom onto and be forced to take notice of. It would be so inconvenient to have to enforce the law against the oh-so-peaceful Muslim community, wouldn't it? Muslims teach their children to accept forced marriages, teach their sons to hope for the day they get their own virgin(s) to take home and play with. That's polygamy and that's sick.

The Law | 10:00 p.m. May 22, 2008

If you are obeying the law their is no need to fear your compound being raided...
The problem is they are Breaking the laws of this land......

Question | 1:16 a.m. May 23, 2008

I am not a polygamist, don't want to be, don't even understand why some Old Testament Prophets or a few early church leaders practised it. What I find hypocritical and sad, is that with all the moral outrage against a man having more than one wife, why don't we see the same outrage against people who sleep around?

John Lambert | 5:47 p.m. May 23, 2008

I am tired of people acusing others of lieing about their location and their religious affiliation. I do not see any reason someone would claim they are in New Hampshire unless they actually are. I have been in Michigan through this whole thing.
I also seriously doubt there are FLDS people claiming they are other than FLDS. A few may not openly claim to be such, but I think people should start believing those who claim to be LDS or Catholic or of various protestant denominations or Jewish or Muslim or some other religion unless they have strong evidence otherwise.
Belief that the 1st, 4th and 14th admendments should be applied or that Texas CPS should follow the laws that have been put in place by the Texas legislature does not make someone FLDS. Personally I think the 4th and 14th admendments are more relevant than the 1st, but I do have issues with CPS sighting a "pervasive belief structure". I for one believe that conscientious objectors should be given exemption from the draft even if they do not belong to a recognized historical peace church.

John Lambert | 5:55 p.m. May 23, 2008

I may hold my above mentioned view about peace church's because I have Jehovah's Witnesses relatives who were thrown in jail for refusing to register for the draft during World War II.
As a faithful Latter-day Saint I have registered with the selective service. I have decided I am opposed to the draft in all cases, as a political postion.
I feel the 1990 Smith decision was wrong and I still feel that the decision in Reynolds vs. US was wrong. However I fully support the 1st and 2nd Manifestos, and will boldly testify that Thomas S. Monson is the one man who holds the keys. I also distance myself from those who try to say polygamy was in general good, since it seems that it was a hard system to live. I think we need to give more credit to the pioneer women who lived through the hardships it entailed, especially since many of them had to deal with husbands periodically called on mission abraod.
I also do not think that the FLDS methods of arranged marriages are good. However I think all people have rights.

Angry Mother | 8:19 a.m. May 29, 2008

I am angry that TEXAS thinks it is so big it can take innocent children and even nursing babies away from their mothers. This is against the law! Can you imagine the stress these poor people are under in trying to get their little ones back? THINK OF THE CHILDREN - they must be terribly traumatized.

The State of Texas needs to give those children BACK to their mothers and do it NOW! CPS kidnapped those children and they should be prosecuted under the law for doing it. They lied to these people multiple times. They cannot be trusted. They should be fired. The Governor should be taken out of office too for not doing anything.

Then the new CPS should start at the beginning again and go after those who are breaking the law! But instead they stupidly got the cart before the horse.

BTW I'm no LDS or FLDS--but I am a mother and a grandmother! You watch--if TEXAS gets away with this, your children and grandchildren will be next as well as mine!!

WE HAVE TO FIGHT THIS BREACH OF OUR CONSITITUTION!! Shame on Texas for what they have done.

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