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FLDS members fear possibility of a second raid
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awesomeron | 1:50 a.m. May 22, 2008
DO some people not realize that these people BROKEN THE LAW. Nothing to fear
except the fear of getting cought breaking the law some more. If kids where
moved onto the Ranch for any reason to include provide additional Wifes to the
males on the compound, they are in an unsafe enviroment and need to be removed.
If they are there for any reason they need to be removed. Get a Warrent go back
in and see what you can find. Bring the Dogs and the Half Track. If you find
underaged people remove them.
SJ Bobkins | 4:13 a.m. May 22, 2008
I hope Parker is getting paid a huge fee by the polygamist's because
it's likely he will never be asked to do any work outside this group. To
condone teen marriage, the taking away families from men while they are
dismissed from the compound, and the disposal of the majority of the young boys,
is more than any attorneys I know would be willing to do.
He is the fulfillment of all the lawyer jokes.
He is the fulfillment of all the lawyer jokes.
Comments continue below
Thomas | 4:19 a.m. May 22, 2008
Unlike you awesome, i am disturbed by the lack of due process in this case. The
parents have been given no chance to refute the charges against them.
avengeance | 4:45 a.m. May 22, 2008
Do some people not realize that these people ARE CITIZENS WITH RIGHTS?
Everything to fear from a civil agency with police powers, who can make blanket
accusations against your entire neighborhood, and force you to prove yourself
innocent after convicting you and sentencing you of "child abuse" and
forcing you to sign their "agreements" to get your children back. If
there are any children there, they do need to be removed- before the government
gets them!
Angry in New Hampshire | 5:18 a.m. May 22, 2008
What????
Now this is the last straw! Did you see that quote?: "Because they are a civil agency, officials noted they may not need a warrant to conduct a civil investigation."
If the governmental agencies reach they point that they feel that they do not need a warrant... then they will have crossed a line that the constitution is not just threatened, but euthanized. I have nothing to do with the FLDS, but would be willing to take up arms to protect their civil liberties (or anyone else�s) if that line is crossed.
Don't get me wrong -- I am not a whacko militia type, but kidnapping of children on unproven rumor, "genocide" (as defined by U.N. resolution), and now the discussion of warrantless searches... The country and constitution I love are crumbling, and I think that all Americans should -- must! -- start considering options. If constitutional order cannot be restored by our legitimate government, it is time to consider the possibility our right to revolt.
Wake up! The constitution is being trampled!
Now this is the last straw! Did you see that quote?: "Because they are a civil agency, officials noted they may not need a warrant to conduct a civil investigation."
If the governmental agencies reach they point that they feel that they do not need a warrant... then they will have crossed a line that the constitution is not just threatened, but euthanized. I have nothing to do with the FLDS, but would be willing to take up arms to protect their civil liberties (or anyone else�s) if that line is crossed.
Don't get me wrong -- I am not a whacko militia type, but kidnapping of children on unproven rumor, "genocide" (as defined by U.N. resolution), and now the discussion of warrantless searches... The country and constitution I love are crumbling, and I think that all Americans should -- must! -- start considering options. If constitutional order cannot be restored by our legitimate government, it is time to consider the possibility our right to revolt.
Wake up! The constitution is being trampled!
Judy | 5:22 a.m. May 22, 2008
To Which way america--This is not about traditional marriage. THis is about
child abuse, which California prosecutes aggressively. Very aggressively.
Gene Davis | 5:28 a.m. May 22, 2008
Any person living in any country must follow or or obey the law of the land. I
moved to the Philippines from the U.S. And I must obey the laws here even if I
don't agree with all of them.Same holds true for the FLDS. The U.S is a
free country.But no one is free to break the law of the land.
? | 6:02 a.m. May 22, 2008
re: awesomeron
You say that these people have broken the law, what law? The legal age to marry in Texas is 16. The girls they thought were minors they now say are adults. What law has been broken to justify what the State has done? Where are the charges? It's been almost 2 months now. No one has been charges with a crime. You say these people BROKE THE LAW, I ask what law?
You say that these people have broken the law, what law? The legal age to marry in Texas is 16. The girls they thought were minors they now say are adults. What law has been broken to justify what the State has done? Where are the charges? It's been almost 2 months now. No one has been charges with a crime. You say these people BROKE THE LAW, I ask what law?
Dave | 6:11 a.m. May 22, 2008
The problem is they are only enforcing the law against one particular religion.
If everyone under 16 that showed up at an abortion clinic where put in
protective custody and the father tracxked down and jailed it would be a
different matter.
Re: Angry... | 7:00 a.m. May 22, 2008
in New Hampshire
or would that be St. George?
Still on the "genocide" campaign I see.
Despite the hyperbole, this is not genocide or kidnapping, but an investigation of child abuse, which is taught and practiced by the FLDS in the form of forced, underage marriages.
or would that be St. George?
Still on the "genocide" campaign I see.
Despite the hyperbole, this is not genocide or kidnapping, but an investigation of child abuse, which is taught and practiced by the FLDS in the form of forced, underage marriages.
Hey Dave | 7:12 a.m. May 22, 2008
They are enforcing the law against polygamists and child abusers who try to get
away with it under the guise of religion, the worst excuse there is. I daresay
they should be charged also with running some sort of illegal prison camp. Go
texas
yeah!! | 7:15 a.m. May 22, 2008
This will only make Greg Abbott, att. general of Texas, more determined to get
these criminals behind bars. They should have played along......BIG mistake!!!
I will probebly drive up there when they begin to cuff the mom and dads and
provide snacks and water to the law officials, and applaud them for doing an
outstanding job, in breaking up this child sex slave ring!!!!
free the children | 7:18 a.m. May 22, 2008
I agree with Angry in New Hampshire! We got to start protecting ourselves and
families..... Their are no more RIGHTS IN THIS COUNTRY .. THIS CASE HAS SHOWED
THAT .. I think that Texas want these children for their own purpose-- must be
alot of people in Texas that can't have kids and this may be a way to get
them ... No one is safe at this point ! We all need to protect our rights
America !! Free the children !!! Free the children!!!
Comparing this to | 7:24 a.m. May 22, 2008
your everyday teenager that fools around with their boyfriend and gets pregnant
and an FLDS girl is comparing apples to oranges.
The FLDS are not following the laws of the land. Period. Just wait when more information gets out - child traffiking, abuse, polygamy, ect. It won't be pretty for the FLDS. They should obey the laws of the lands like the rest of us.
The FLDS are not following the laws of the land. Period. Just wait when more information gets out - child traffiking, abuse, polygamy, ect. It won't be pretty for the FLDS. They should obey the laws of the lands like the rest of us.
Wakeup Dave | 7:38 a.m. May 22, 2008
"The problem is they are only enforcing the law against one particular
religion."
Did you FLDS ever consider that they're only enforcing the law against one particular religion, because only one particular religion has institutionalized child abuse in the form of forced underaged marriages of young girls and the indoctrination of young boys to become future abusers?
Did you FLDS ever consider that they're only enforcing the law against one particular religion, because only one particular religion has institutionalized child abuse in the form of forced underaged marriages of young girls and the indoctrination of young boys to become future abusers?
Worried for our country | 7:43 a.m. May 22, 2008
Exactly, Dave! Why aren't we worried about the millions of teenage mothers
giving birth and those seeking abortions? Why aren't we finding their
perpetrators? Oh, yeah, they aren't concerned with finding the perps, just
jailing the victims. Let's round up all the teen pregnant girls, lock them
up and if they already have children, take them away. When they give birth,
take the newborn too and give them a "safe" foster home because
obviously they are likely to be groomed to become a teen mom themselves, right?
Where is their role model to do something different - if grandma helps raise the
child, isn't the child also likely to be a teen mom?
Or perhaps they have "gay" mothers or dads. Take them away too because they might be influenced that direction. If you don't like their religion, round them all up as a group without due process and warrants. Assume the worst of them all. This is America.... but as was said above, go to California or Massachusetts where anything goes. You can't prosecute someone with two wives if it's also OK to have other non-traditional marriage.
Next they may seek everyone who is not blonde, blue eyed, white.
Or perhaps they have "gay" mothers or dads. Take them away too because they might be influenced that direction. If you don't like their religion, round them all up as a group without due process and warrants. Assume the worst of them all. This is America.... but as was said above, go to California or Massachusetts where anything goes. You can't prosecute someone with two wives if it's also OK to have other non-traditional marriage.
Next they may seek everyone who is not blonde, blue eyed, white.
Ray | 7:45 a.m. May 22, 2008
'The judge hearing the case objected, saying [actual facts are] not
relevant'
How can a judge say clearing up a lie is not relevant? The truth does not matter to this judge!! Unbelievable!! Well, I believe it, I just wish it wasn't so.
Shut down this travesty and send those kids home!
How can a judge say clearing up a lie is not relevant? The truth does not matter to this judge!! Unbelievable!! Well, I believe it, I just wish it wasn't so.
Shut down this travesty and send those kids home!
Must Be Related | 7:54 a.m. May 22, 2008
Angry in New Hampshire = free the children
It's nice that you agree with yourself (same exact writing style), but the rights of the children to be protected from being abused are more important to truly caring people than the rights of the parents to abuse their children.
It's nice that you agree with yourself (same exact writing style), but the rights of the children to be protected from being abused are more important to truly caring people than the rights of the parents to abuse their children.
Live and let live | 7:57 a.m. May 22, 2008
When will CPS leave these people alone and return the children.
re: yeah!! | 7:57 a.m. May 22, 2008
Yo, Dude, what sex-slave ring? The so-called complaining pregnant 14-year-old
never existed. The other so-called pregnant 14-year-old says she is not
pregnant. One so-called pregnant teenager turns out to be 27 years old!!
Where's the sex crimes? The crimes here are the CPS lies!!
Jonathan Wurst | 7:59 a.m. May 22, 2008
Constitution? What Constitution? Only lip service is paid to it, but it really
doesn't exist anymore. The lip service paid is just to keep the masses in
their lethargic state - keep them asleep to their eventual doom.
Tell us - with the IRS - is one innocent until proven guilty, or guilty until proven innocent?
Tell us - the CPS - are the parents innocent until proven guilty, or the other way around?
With Patriot Acts 1 and 2, do any of the Bill of Rights apply? ANY OF THEM? Ever hear of WARRANTLESS SEARCHES? Ever hear of being arrested with no miranda, locked up in Guantanamo or other places, no charges filed, held indefinitely, tortured... Just because someone is "suspicious"? Ever hear that anyone can be considered a "terrorist", even someone who says that today's laws don't line up with the Constitution, and YOU can be send town to Guantanamo Bay and tortured until you say what they want you to say? Anyone can be taken...
We are talking today, in Amerika, not Nazi Germany or Communist Russia - even though they did the same things there?
Governments have killed far more people than any other group.
Tell us - with the IRS - is one innocent until proven guilty, or guilty until proven innocent?
Tell us - the CPS - are the parents innocent until proven guilty, or the other way around?
With Patriot Acts 1 and 2, do any of the Bill of Rights apply? ANY OF THEM? Ever hear of WARRANTLESS SEARCHES? Ever hear of being arrested with no miranda, locked up in Guantanamo or other places, no charges filed, held indefinitely, tortured... Just because someone is "suspicious"? Ever hear that anyone can be considered a "terrorist", even someone who says that today's laws don't line up with the Constitution, and YOU can be send town to Guantanamo Bay and tortured until you say what they want you to say? Anyone can be taken...
We are talking today, in Amerika, not Nazi Germany or Communist Russia - even though they did the same things there?
Governments have killed far more people than any other group.
to hey Dave | 8:01 a.m. May 22, 2008
You are wrong. They are not enforcing laws against polygamists. TX already
stated they will not attempt prosecution against polygamy. I am more surprised
that you are not outraged that many copies of the Book of Mormon were removed
from children. While I don't believe in any scripture, I find that action
outrageous.
Cal | 8:05 a.m. May 22, 2008
Let's see now:
1. China style 'relocation' of children is in the best interest of the State.
2. Unfettered authority for 'warrantless searches' is legal.
3. Rubber-stamped - broad-brushed justice without case related specifics is OK.
4. You should be prohibited from speaking, thinking, reading Religious material.
5. If you are a member of a religion, it is illegal for underage pregnancies to occur, but if you are from a slum somewhere, high rates are acceptable.
6. Families that stay together are bad - casual childbearing is fine.
These are just for starters - now, when do we see CPS 'invade' high rate child pregnancy innercity areas and 'relocate' all the children to 'safe' areas, swab everyones mouth and run DNA tests to determine if some 'crime' might be found and prosecuted.
While I don't favor polygamy, I question how serial childbearing in marriages is OK, casual 'live-in' relationships resulting in children are OK, one-night stands resulting in pregnancy is OK, even sodomy is OK, but providing clean homes, devoted large families, private schools,etc. is AGAINST THE LAW and MUST be punished.
Something is really screwed up here!
1. China style 'relocation' of children is in the best interest of the State.
2. Unfettered authority for 'warrantless searches' is legal.
3. Rubber-stamped - broad-brushed justice without case related specifics is OK.
4. You should be prohibited from speaking, thinking, reading Religious material.
5. If you are a member of a religion, it is illegal for underage pregnancies to occur, but if you are from a slum somewhere, high rates are acceptable.
6. Families that stay together are bad - casual childbearing is fine.
These are just for starters - now, when do we see CPS 'invade' high rate child pregnancy innercity areas and 'relocate' all the children to 'safe' areas, swab everyones mouth and run DNA tests to determine if some 'crime' might be found and prosecuted.
While I don't favor polygamy, I question how serial childbearing in marriages is OK, casual 'live-in' relationships resulting in children are OK, one-night stands resulting in pregnancy is OK, even sodomy is OK, but providing clean homes, devoted large families, private schools,etc. is AGAINST THE LAW and MUST be punished.
Something is really screwed up here!
SLC gal | 8:13 a.m. May 22, 2008
To all of you who are saying polygomy is illegal, ask this - how fair is it to
make polygomy illegal, but keep adultery legal????The boatload of allegations
the state of TX has made are based on nothing but a hoax. Every day this boat is
getting leakier and leakier. Why else would they have shown up MINUS a search
warrant yesterday? The only abuse these children have really recieved is the
abuse of ripping them from their parents and siblings, and slapping them helter
skelter whereever there's room in various citys in TX while the parents
fight lies to get them back!! That is abuse!!!!!!!!!!!!
$$$ | 8:15 a.m. May 22, 2008
It is quickly becoming clear that the intention was to get FLDS money. The TX
official went in slinging guns because of fraudulant abuse allegations that my
caller I.D. would have detected, but are checking FLDS finances and billing the
FLDS for foster care. Note that TX still refuses to acknowledge that the call
was fraudulent when simple telephone records that are easily accessible. Again,
follow the paper, not the bruise trail.
Hiding | 8:16 a.m. May 22, 2008
Hearings are being held, plans to return the children are being drawn up, but
still the "Free the Children" drum beat continues.
Why?
It makes you wonder if some of those children in Texas CPS protective custody aren't the children of child brides and the men responsible know that if Texas continues to investigate, they'll discover that some of these girls weren't actually forced into underage marriages in Texas, but they were forced into underage marriages in Utah or Arizona, where underage marriages are also illegal.
Could this be why the FLDS men keep repeating that there is NO PROOF that laws were broken IN TEXAS, when, what they're really trying to do is hide the fact that laws WERE BROKEN in UTAH and ARIZONA?
Why?
It makes you wonder if some of those children in Texas CPS protective custody aren't the children of child brides and the men responsible know that if Texas continues to investigate, they'll discover that some of these girls weren't actually forced into underage marriages in Texas, but they were forced into underage marriages in Utah or Arizona, where underage marriages are also illegal.
Could this be why the FLDS men keep repeating that there is NO PROOF that laws were broken IN TEXAS, when, what they're really trying to do is hide the fact that laws WERE BROKEN in UTAH and ARIZONA?
Anonymous | 8:21 a.m. May 22, 2008
"It was Joseph Smith who has been quoted as having said that the time would come when the Constitution would hang as by a thread and at that time when it was thus in jeopardy, the elders of this Church would step forth and save it from destruction."
where are the elders of the church who will save the constitution from destruction?
amazing the advocates for warrantless searches and other constitutional violations in the name of humanity
Hey "Yo, Dude" | 8:27 a.m. May 22, 2008
The investigation isn't finished yet. Give it time. The abusers already
know if there's evidence still to be discovered. The rest of us will just
have to wait until the investigation is complete.
Hey Angry! | 8:34 a.m. May 22, 2008
I am with you. We need to go down there, and fight for the Constitution.
There in lies the problem. While we see the problem we are unwilling to give up our homes, and jobs to defend those things that are right. The problem will contintue to get worse until either we stand up fight like our ancestors did, or one day we will wake up, and it will be to late. The way things are I really think it will be the latter.
There in lies the problem. While we see the problem we are unwilling to give up our homes, and jobs to defend those things that are right. The problem will contintue to get worse until either we stand up fight like our ancestors did, or one day we will wake up, and it will be to late. The way things are I really think it will be the latter.
Re: Cal | 8:35 a.m. May 22, 2008
Weak strawman, but the FLDS aren't being investigated for providing clean
homes, having large families, or having private schools, they're being
investigated for forcing young underage girls to be married and raped, which is
CHILD ABUSE!!!
Whether you call this a religious belief or not, it's still child abuse.
Whether you call this a religious belief or not, it's still child abuse.
Justice | 8:38 a.m. May 22, 2008
Any of you who are refuting the ethics or legality of the raid at the compound
need to read the stories of those who have escaped. I know such a woman and her
story is frightening. 'Forcing' young girls to marry men who are old
enough to be their fathers, or granfathers, or forcing them to marry at all is
against their constitutional rights, not to mention against the law. They have
no choice in the matter. The man is the law. It is not a commune full of
'love and laughter' and those who believe it is are kidding
themselves. Of course those adult women who live there will stand up for their
beliefs, it is all they have known from birth, but it is WRONG. I daresay that
any of you with daughters of your own would NEVER allow such a thing to happen
to them. Those of you who are complaining about justice in America and then
vowing to protect the rights of the FLDS adults are turning yourselves into real
live oxymorons, and, if you have to look that term up, perhaps you should just
bow out of the governmental arena all together.
What choice | 8:39 a.m. May 22, 2008
These people are caught in an impossible situation: first they are commanded by
God via the revelations of the prophet Joseph Smith to practice plural
marriages, and now they are told by the state that it is against the law, so who
do they obey; God's law or man's law. It would be best if they where
left alone to their own divises.
No Warrantless Searches | 8:47 a.m. May 22, 2008
"Because they are a civil agency, officials noted they MAY not need a
warrant to conduct a civil investigation."
To date, there have been on warrantless searches and CPS is just blowing smoke by suggesting that the MAY not need a warrant. Scare tactics or a CPS worker just spouting off.
There have been and there will be NO warrantless searches.
Sorry to disappoint all the paranoid conspiracy nuts.
To date, there have been on warrantless searches and CPS is just blowing smoke by suggesting that the MAY not need a warrant. Scare tactics or a CPS worker just spouting off.
There have been and there will be NO warrantless searches.
Sorry to disappoint all the paranoid conspiracy nuts.
Let them finish | 8:51 a.m. May 22, 2008
There is evidence that some of the current 16 and 17 year olds have 2 and 3 year
olds. Doesn't that show that there is some strange stugg going on. Wait and
see what the DNA test say, that will be interesting. The difference is that they
were forced into these spiritual relationships and got pregnant; they
weren't just fooling around with a boyfriend. Also, why would 6 of the
women in the beginning of the raid opt to leave with their children to a safe
place, something obviously isn't right here, we need to make sure that
these women are not part of the Stockholm Syndrome. They love the men that are
brainwashing them, and continue to be their sex harems.
re: Hey "Yo, Dude"!! | 8:54 a.m. May 22, 2008
Every day more disputed teenagers turn out to have been adults all along.
Between Tuesday and yesterday the only two allegedly pregnant 14-year-olds
turned out to just plain not be pregnant 14-year-olds.
Hour by hour more and more CPS lies are falling by the wayside. I expect by the time all of the hearings are done, there won't be a shread of fact to base this atrocity on.
Oh yea, facts don't matter here. The facts don't matter because some chick wrote a story book about life in Utah and said she was forced into something she didn't want. Probably the most absurd thing about this is the judge in the first place accepting passages from a story book as evidence!!!
Hour by hour more and more CPS lies are falling by the wayside. I expect by the time all of the hearings are done, there won't be a shread of fact to base this atrocity on.
Oh yea, facts don't matter here. The facts don't matter because some chick wrote a story book about life in Utah and said she was forced into something she didn't want. Probably the most absurd thing about this is the judge in the first place accepting passages from a story book as evidence!!!
Angry in New Hampshire | 8:57 a.m. May 22, 2008
In response to "Anonymous" (8:21 am):
While it is certainly premature to "take up arms" (as I irresponsibly suggested in my passion and dismay over this issue at 5:18 am -- remember, I live in a state where the state motto is "Live Free or Die"), there is still the question as to what the "elders of the church" will do to save the constitution.
I know that, personally, my shock that this abrogation of parental and religious rights has cemented my will to run for Congress in 2010 to try to restore some basic constitutional liberties. In the mean time, I will be trying to arrange a discussion with my congresswoman here to discuss what can be done (although, of course, this is a political hot potato, as action to rein in CPS could be misconstrued as supporting "sex slavery" as some people in this discussion have intimated -- which is not politically prudent). I will also be contacting the UN Special Advisor in the Prevention of Genocide. I will introduce a symbolic bill in the New Hampshire house recognizing the CPS action as "genocide."
Any other ideas? Trampling of the constitution must stop.
While it is certainly premature to "take up arms" (as I irresponsibly suggested in my passion and dismay over this issue at 5:18 am -- remember, I live in a state where the state motto is "Live Free or Die"), there is still the question as to what the "elders of the church" will do to save the constitution.
I know that, personally, my shock that this abrogation of parental and religious rights has cemented my will to run for Congress in 2010 to try to restore some basic constitutional liberties. In the mean time, I will be trying to arrange a discussion with my congresswoman here to discuss what can be done (although, of course, this is a political hot potato, as action to rein in CPS could be misconstrued as supporting "sex slavery" as some people in this discussion have intimated -- which is not politically prudent). I will also be contacting the UN Special Advisor in the Prevention of Genocide. I will introduce a symbolic bill in the New Hampshire house recognizing the CPS action as "genocide."
Any other ideas? Trampling of the constitution must stop.
AlmostFunny | 8:59 a.m. May 22, 2008
Top Ten Signs You Are A Victim of Religious Persecution
10. When people talk about where THEY live it is a four-plex, apartment building or ranch. When they talk about the four-plex, apartment or ranch YOU live at, it is a compound.
9. Your religion is constantly referred to as a cult.
8. The state decides how your children are to worship by taking away their religious documents and scriptures.
7. When you move to a state, laws are changed specifically to target your religion.
6. The only adults in your state not allowed to marry a 14 or 16 year olds are the members of your congregation.
5. Your religion cannot teach certain behaviors lead to damnation, but all other religions can.
4. The state accepts birth certificates as proof of age for everyone except those practicing your religion.
3. You can't have your children back unless you denounce your religion, and take classes learning how to think like them.
2. You have to prove to the State you can raise children, when you have been raising them just fine.
1. The children of your religion are hauled away in buses displaying the name of another church.
10. When people talk about where THEY live it is a four-plex, apartment building or ranch. When they talk about the four-plex, apartment or ranch YOU live at, it is a compound.
9. Your religion is constantly referred to as a cult.
8. The state decides how your children are to worship by taking away their religious documents and scriptures.
7. When you move to a state, laws are changed specifically to target your religion.
6. The only adults in your state not allowed to marry a 14 or 16 year olds are the members of your congregation.
5. Your religion cannot teach certain behaviors lead to damnation, but all other religions can.
4. The state accepts birth certificates as proof of age for everyone except those practicing your religion.
3. You can't have your children back unless you denounce your religion, and take classes learning how to think like them.
2. You have to prove to the State you can raise children, when you have been raising them just fine.
1. The children of your religion are hauled away in buses displaying the name of another church.
realitycheck | 9:01 a.m. May 22, 2008
I am SO happy for those children, and have NO pity for the parents. The kids
are finally free to be kids instead of mini-me slaves, and they will be able to
form their own ideas. What a concept!
And "Uncle" Warren is going away for a LONG time. So the question is:
Since being a "prophet" seems to be handed down from father to son like a monarchy, who is Warren going to make the new "prophet"? I think his kid is too young (and a little hammerheaded) so who will it be? Probably that Willie Jessop dude - he seems like he's the most extreme so he fits the bill. I'm sure he'll have a "vision" just in time.
Can anyone (besides FLDS zombies) imagine being born into this? To have to live like that simply because of who your parents are? Wow - that would suck. No freedom of choice, no clue how the world works, 80 years of servitude for something that may not even be real, when you could have had 80 years of fun and gone to the same place?
Old men told you things - if they're wrong, you wasted your life.
And "Uncle" Warren is going away for a LONG time. So the question is:
Since being a "prophet" seems to be handed down from father to son like a monarchy, who is Warren going to make the new "prophet"? I think his kid is too young (and a little hammerheaded) so who will it be? Probably that Willie Jessop dude - he seems like he's the most extreme so he fits the bill. I'm sure he'll have a "vision" just in time.
Can anyone (besides FLDS zombies) imagine being born into this? To have to live like that simply because of who your parents are? Wow - that would suck. No freedom of choice, no clue how the world works, 80 years of servitude for something that may not even be real, when you could have had 80 years of fun and gone to the same place?
Old men told you things - if they're wrong, you wasted your life.
Anonymous | 9:01 a.m. May 22, 2008
run the FLDS members up on Federal Rico and Mann Act charges
Annie Get Yer Gun | 9:03 a.m. May 22, 2008
Sounds like a couple of FLDSers are on the warpath this morning talking about
taking up arms and civil insurrection. Did Warren Jeffs anticipate this from the
beginning when he built a guard tower at the gates of the walled YFZ Ranch?
Is YFZ a ranch or a fort?
Is YFZ a ranch or a fort?
Angry in New Hampshire | 9:01 a.m. May 22, 2008
For those of you guessing that I am in Utah or associated with the FLDS-Wrong! I
did live in Utah when I was a BYU student for my undergrad and masters, before
coming to Massachusetts to get my PhD, and eventually settling in New Hampshire,
where I am active LDS. Despite being a descendant of early LDS polygamists, I do
not condone polygamy. I certainly do not condone under-age marriage, sex
slavery, etc., nor do I condone the civil disobedience espoused by the
leadership of this group.
I am angry because, though not guaranteed by the constitution explicitly, I believe parental rights are as basic as life and liberty, to be abrogated under only the gravest of circumstances, and only with due process.
The term "genocide" is not a hyperbole. This action by the state of Texas clearly falls under Article 2(e) of the UN Resolution on Genocide. READ IT.
It breaks my heart to see this happening on American soil. I am left to wonder what my patriotic duty is when the constitution has been set aside. If we allow this to happen to them, what group will be next? When will it be us?
I am angry because, though not guaranteed by the constitution explicitly, I believe parental rights are as basic as life and liberty, to be abrogated under only the gravest of circumstances, and only with due process.
The term "genocide" is not a hyperbole. This action by the state of Texas clearly falls under Article 2(e) of the UN Resolution on Genocide. READ IT.
It breaks my heart to see this happening on American soil. I am left to wonder what my patriotic duty is when the constitution has been set aside. If we allow this to happen to them, what group will be next? When will it be us?
Original Thinking | 9:03 a.m. May 22, 2008
People say this isn't about polygamy, but if that were so, they would
legalize polygamy. In Texas it is OK for any adult to marry a 16 year old with
parental consent. The only reason some of these alleged marriages to 16 year
olds are illegal is because the pligs couldn't legally marry since polygamy
is illegal. Because polygamy is illegal, the marriage then becomes statutory
rape. It's religious persecution at this point, because believe me, they
would have married legally if it could have been done.
So you see, it is about polygamy after all.
So you see, it is about polygamy after all.
mypc46 | 9:18 a.m. May 22, 2008
why should parents even go through the cps circus rings? If no abuse is found
then give the kids back and close this dumb case. Maybe many of you have never
done a thing wrong parenting your kids..I know i made plenty. I am 61 and have 8
children. I used to tell the LLUMC that I neede a revolving door for my family
with our name on it. Active children do get hurt, illness can get really bad and
sometimes accidents happen. As for the sex ed kids get..they almost encourage
the kids to experiment. Public schools are where kids learn about
sex,drugs,disbelief in GOD,foul language,evolution theory(not fact)&
disrespect. WTG for the american way. Change those FLDS kids to be good american
kids. I say this is America..the land of the not so free!
to almost funny | 9:22 a.m. May 22, 2008
Thanks, good humor if it wasn't so true. Watch out, your neighborhood can
be next...
mypc46 | 9:29 a.m. May 22, 2008
for reality check: I suppose that only htese folks lie about religion. How about
catholics where you could go to no other churech..not marry out of faith unless
you sign for kids to be raised in the church..letting a mom die if she has a
health issue when pregnant. The list goes on and then a priest tells you you are
a sinner. And then you have to go to him for forgiveness. Abuse and worse are
the way of life but no one arrested the pope. You all know it is one huge
family. Go FLDS I may not like your views but I like freedom better.
Jerry the X | 9:29 a.m. May 22, 2008
As for me I am done with anything that has to do with the F letter in front of
LDS or without the F. These blogs have cured me completely of all the deception
of these religions. Polygamy is evil! There is nothing religious about this evil
practice.
I hope the raids go well. More power to TEXAS!
I hope the raids go well. More power to TEXAS!
to original thinking | 9:34 a.m. May 22, 2008
If this were about polygamy, then the state of TX would not have stated that
they will NOT prosecute for polygamy. They have made this statement.
Has CPS lost a few? | 9:38 a.m. May 22, 2008
As it appears that CPS is looking for children gone missing from foster care,
does anyone know how long they can legally keep this a secret? (Though I know
they don't feel bound by mere legalities.)
Yo: RealtyCheck | 9:49 a.m. May 22, 2008
Your argument can (and has) been made regarding all religions in general (not
just FLDS). A few years back there was somebody at the University of New
Hampshire doing post-doc work claiming that ALL religion is abusive (although
his particular beef was with the Catholics), and was devoting his life to
"freeing children from the tyranny of the religions of their parents."
Though a PhD, he got a job teaching elementary school (my son's elementary
school, actually) for the sole purpose of saving children from religion. (I was
disturbed about THAT, too.)
Freedom is a messy thing. Allowing parents to train their children in their belief systems means that most kids will be trained in a religion that I believe is incorrect. (I will wait until they are older and try to teach them the Gospel as a member-missionary...) Freedom requires that we allow basic liberties (such as teaching your children in the way you see fit) without governmental intervention. Personally, I view freedom to teach our children as more fundamental than freedom of speech or freedom of religion. I disagree with the FLDS, but the government must not muck with religious training. That is why I am �Angry.�
Freedom is a messy thing. Allowing parents to train their children in their belief systems means that most kids will be trained in a religion that I believe is incorrect. (I will wait until they are older and try to teach them the Gospel as a member-missionary...) Freedom requires that we allow basic liberties (such as teaching your children in the way you see fit) without governmental intervention. Personally, I view freedom to teach our children as more fundamental than freedom of speech or freedom of religion. I disagree with the FLDS, but the government must not muck with religious training. That is why I am �Angry.�
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Jim Beck, who owns the ranch next door to the YFZ Ranch, takes his first upclose look at the FLDS temple on Wednesday.
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The US needs to decide which way it wants to go - you can't prosecute one form of non-traditional marriage while legalizing another. How and where do you draw the line?