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Gun permits shoot up
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Bob G | 5:39 a.m. May 22, 2008
For Curt Oda and his why not? Because the state has no control on who is getting
them and who is asking for the license. We have no way to verify citizenship or
identity of those seeking out of state gun permits. People seeking gun permits
should be in accordance with the persons state laws as laws vary from state to
state. States could invalidate licenses issued from one state to residents
living in another state. How is our state issueing board going to verify out of
state residents? Being too lienent on issuing permits to aliens and foreign
nationals is very logical to happen. Then who is going to be responsible and
liable for an unauthroized permit being issued? The state they live in or the
state that issued it? Although I believe in gun carrying and haveing guns and
our freedoms, it only makes sense that gun permits only be issued to residents
of the state they live in. It should not be the intention of the current law to
be an international licensing bureau for gun permits. Besides, can our state law
be legal in other states as acceptable in other states? Seems theres a conflict
there.
Liberal larry | 6:40 a.m. May 22, 2008
How can DN publish an entire article with explaining why all these people are
coming to Utah, to get firearm permits?
Comments continue below
Anonymous | 6:40 a.m. May 22, 2008
Private gun ownership is a joke. Only government agents (FBI, CIA, UHP, local
PD) should be allowed to have guns.
Imagine no handguns
I wonder if you can
Nothing to kill or die with
And no ammo too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace
Imagine no handguns
I wonder if you can
Nothing to kill or die with
And no ammo too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace
avengeance | 7:05 a.m. May 22, 2008
Yea, if there were no handguns, people would just stop throwing rocks, stabbing
each other with knives, setting fires, and hitting each other with baseball
bats.
CC | 7:07 a.m. May 22, 2008
Look at the states of where the out of state permits are issued. California
probably tops the list - because permits are practically impossible to get
there. By getting an out of state permit, the California resident can carry in
Utah as well as those states that Utah has reciprocity with. That's better
than nothing!
Anonymous - Now imagine the Supreme Court - finding a person's right to a concealed arms permit. Kind of like the way they found a "right" to abortion, with the exception that the right to keep and bear arms actually occurs in the Constitution!
Anonymous - Now imagine the Supreme Court - finding a person's right to a concealed arms permit. Kind of like the way they found a "right" to abortion, with the exception that the right to keep and bear arms actually occurs in the Constitution!
New Yorker | 7:15 a.m. May 22, 2008
To: Anonymous,
Guns are the only cause of death? Cars,knives, strangulation, battery,drugs, smoking, alcohol and on and on. I guess you believe criminals will turn in their guns too. You truly are a dreamer! Wake up and smell the postum, oh, that's right, they don't make it anymore....then try coffee.
Guns are the only cause of death? Cars,knives, strangulation, battery,drugs, smoking, alcohol and on and on. I guess you believe criminals will turn in their guns too. You truly are a dreamer! Wake up and smell the postum, oh, that's right, they don't make it anymore....then try coffee.
Bob , New York. | 7:17 a.m. May 22, 2008
New York does not recognize out of State handgun permits. It sounds like a
revision of the State law is over due for the safety of all who are involved,
the $ going into the State fund sounds great but at what cost to the public.
What is the motivation of out of State individuals seeking Utah handgun permits?
Annymous | 7:25 a.m. May 22, 2008
It is not a joke when you go shopping and are staring down the barrel of a gun
of a disturbed young man who didn't follow the the rules of ownership. A
legal concealed weapon would have been something appreciated at that moment, not
a joke. It was not a joke that this country was founded with the right to bear
arms.
That being said . . . why are we issuing concealed weapon permits in the State of Utah to non Utahns?? The likely hood of abuse of the system is much greater, especially concerning guns, than say . . hunting or fishing permits. With hunting and fishing permits, you still have to come to Utah to use the permit.
That being said . . . why are we issuing concealed weapon permits in the State of Utah to non Utahns?? The likely hood of abuse of the system is much greater, especially concerning guns, than say . . hunting or fishing permits. With hunting and fishing permits, you still have to come to Utah to use the permit.
Kevin | 7:27 a.m. May 22, 2008
Every person who gets a Permit, goes through a training class and has to pass a
FBI stile background check. I feel a lot better with people like that having
guns than the CRAZY that has a gun and just starts to shoot people. The truth
is that if any of us were in a place where a CRAZY with a gun started shooting
people, we all would want one of these people who had gone through the class and
background check their to protect us.
It doesn't mater to me what State they came from, I'm just glad they took the time to get it.
It doesn't mater to me what State they came from, I'm just glad they took the time to get it.
Zulu Cowboy | 7:46 a.m. May 22, 2008
Quote: "Private gun ownership is a joke. Only government agents (FBI, CIA,
UHP, local PD) should be allowed to have guns."
You sir...are ignorant! And I mean that in the most polite way. You are 'obviously' ignorant regarding our U.S. Constitution, you are ignorant regarding human nature, and how evil mankind can be to his fellow man. You live in a dream world, where no human being would ever dream of taking advantage of his fellow man. Well...WAKE UP AND SMELL THE COFFEE, BROTHER!!!
It's a violent world out there, and sometimes a man or woman has to defend themselves against those who would cut short their life, for a mere few bucks!
What color is the sky...in that dream world of yours?
Get a clue!
Zulu Cowboy
You sir...are ignorant! And I mean that in the most polite way. You are 'obviously' ignorant regarding our U.S. Constitution, you are ignorant regarding human nature, and how evil mankind can be to his fellow man. You live in a dream world, where no human being would ever dream of taking advantage of his fellow man. Well...WAKE UP AND SMELL THE COFFEE, BROTHER!!!
It's a violent world out there, and sometimes a man or woman has to defend themselves against those who would cut short their life, for a mere few bucks!
What color is the sky...in that dream world of yours?
Get a clue!
Zulu Cowboy
Paul | 7:50 a.m. May 22, 2008
I don't see what advantage there is to Utah to have Out of State people
using our permits. How does that improve my way of life? If someone outside of
Utah commits a crime while in possession of such a permit, does that somehow
make it better for Utahns? People should petition their own Government if they
want rights or privileges. If Utah isn't making money off the program and
if it is impacting the ability for Utahns to get a CCW in any way (by slowing
down processing), then the out-of-state program should be stopped. Take care of
Utahns first before worrying about the rest of the World.
common sense | 7:50 a.m. May 22, 2008
Anonymous,
If ordinary citizens were not allowed to own and bear arms, why would police and federal agents need to carry guns for protection? There would be no threat right? Nobody, not even criminals, would have guns right? Well, I wish you well there in your dream world. It must be great living in fantasy land and avoiding/denying reality. As for me, I must live in the real world, where, unfortunately, there is an ever growing element of crime and evil perpetrated by those who have no respect or regard for life, liberty, or property. While you stick your head in the sand and pretend all is well, I'll exercise my God given Constitutional right to keep and bear arms in defense of my life, my family's lives, and our liberty. I will admit that it would be nice to live in your fantasy world, but in the world I live in there are evil people with evil intent and I will do all in my power to prevent them from harming my family.
If ordinary citizens were not allowed to own and bear arms, why would police and federal agents need to carry guns for protection? There would be no threat right? Nobody, not even criminals, would have guns right? Well, I wish you well there in your dream world. It must be great living in fantasy land and avoiding/denying reality. As for me, I must live in the real world, where, unfortunately, there is an ever growing element of crime and evil perpetrated by those who have no respect or regard for life, liberty, or property. While you stick your head in the sand and pretend all is well, I'll exercise my God given Constitutional right to keep and bear arms in defense of my life, my family's lives, and our liberty. I will admit that it would be nice to live in your fantasy world, but in the world I live in there are evil people with evil intent and I will do all in my power to prevent them from harming my family.
Geno | 8:05 a.m. May 22, 2008
I flew to Utah, rented a car obtained my out of state permit, bought a handgun,
and returned back to Texas. Why? The class is shorter, and no firing of the
handgun is required in Utah. I think it is great that Utah sets the example of
those who believe in 2nd amendment rights, and not just for Utahns but also for
those of us who used to live in the state and may again.
To Anon | 8:28 a.m. May 22, 2008
Once again you show why you don't want to say who you are. Yes the world
would be a better place if everyone lived in peace, but as long as there are
creeps in the world I want to be able to defend myself.
When I can read the Des News and not see a story about drug dealers, gang activities and violence, then I'll think about putting away my gun.
When I can read the Des News and not see a story about drug dealers, gang activities and violence, then I'll think about putting away my gun.
bergstro | 8:45 a.m. May 22, 2008
I am a Californian with a Utah permit. Granted, I first applied for my permit
while I was still a full time Utah resident seven years ago, but I have since
renewed it from out of state. Curt Oda is exactly right asking the question
"why not issue permits to out of state residents?" Utah suffers no
liability because these other reciprocity states choose to recognize the permits
and could easily change their minds if they wanted to. It is not Utah's
job to set the policy in other states by restricting permits without any good
reason.
It sounds from the article like the deparment is self sustaining, pulling in more than $1 million per year. As long as it is a money maker, why in the world would you not give permits to (qualified) out of state applicants?
To the "private gun ownership" is a joke guy, you are too dumb to live. I'll trade you places; you come here to San Fransisco with the rest of the gun- hating naked nutballs, and I'll take your spot in Utah...
It sounds from the article like the deparment is self sustaining, pulling in more than $1 million per year. As long as it is a money maker, why in the world would you not give permits to (qualified) out of state applicants?
To the "private gun ownership" is a joke guy, you are too dumb to live. I'll trade you places; you come here to San Fransisco with the rest of the gun- hating naked nutballs, and I'll take your spot in Utah...
Mom, wife & proud to carry | 8:55 a.m. May 22, 2008
I'm in the process of getting my permit in a few different states at this
very moment. Those of you who are against out of state permits seem to be pretty
ignorant. Do you know about the process? The criminal background check through
the FBI? Do you know of the finger printing? Do you know the content of the
class? There's a lot more to it than just going to a class and the state
handing you a permit. Trust me. The government knows ALL about those who get the
permits, no matter what state it was issued in. Before my permit, I would wear
my hand gun in it's shoulder holster in plain sight. I did only do this
when I would go trail running alone. My point is that I have a right to bear
arms. I have a right to feel safer by carrying my gun(s). I have a right to
protect myself and my family. I have these rights, and I exercise them freely.
Anonymous | 8:56 a.m. May 22, 2008
I received my concealed permit about two months ago. I am a Utah resident for
about 17 years now. I agree with the gentleman that out of state fee increases
should apply. People come to Utah for a permit because it is accepted in a lot
of other states and the cost is minimal. We should make a bit more money off
the out-of-staters.
Nevadan (former Utahn) | 9:13 a.m. May 22, 2008
Any one suggesting that Utah should cease issuing out of state ccw permits is
shortsighted and ignorant. 1) The program makes money from the fees it charges
and Utah loves to charge fees and tax anything it can. 2) Florida and many other
states issues ccw permits to non residents and Utah recognizes those permits
issues from other states therefore the fees now going to utah would then go to
other states. 3) CCW permit holders are not the ones committing crimes as
suggested by paul, they are more likley to stop a crime than commit one. Permit
holders go through an background check, attend classes and are finger printed.
This issue is a no brainer Utahans!
a method to the madness | 9:28 a.m. May 22, 2008
With society in free-fall decline and populations exploding everywhere,
it's probably a good idea for everyone to pack heat.
Then go out into the streets and do their NRA thing on each other and the herd will automatically become thinned.
Then go out into the streets and do their NRA thing on each other and the herd will automatically become thinned.
Reason why not | 9:56 a.m. May 22, 2008
My concern with Utah issuing CCWs to people from out of state including foreign
nationals is exactly the issue that Bergstro brought up:
"Utah suffers no liability because these other reciprocity states choose to recognize the permits and could easily change their minds if they wanted to."
If Utah gains a reputation for freely giving CCWs out to everyone, then other states are likely not to join in reciprocity agreements with Utah or to cancel them due to Utah's lack of strict standards. I am more concerned that a Utah resident with a Utah CCW can freely carry in other states due to reciprocity agreements than I am about whether or not a Californian can carry outside of California with the aid of a Utah CCW.
"Utah suffers no liability because these other reciprocity states choose to recognize the permits and could easily change their minds if they wanted to."
If Utah gains a reputation for freely giving CCWs out to everyone, then other states are likely not to join in reciprocity agreements with Utah or to cancel them due to Utah's lack of strict standards. I am more concerned that a Utah resident with a Utah CCW can freely carry in other states due to reciprocity agreements than I am about whether or not a Californian can carry outside of California with the aid of a Utah CCW.
To method to the madness | 10:02 a.m. May 22, 2008
If we "go out into the streets and do the NRA thing", the herd most
certainly will NOT be thinned!
The NRA is the predominent proponent of gun safety and responsible gun use and ownership! Good try mouth-breather!
The NRA is the predominent proponent of gun safety and responsible gun use and ownership! Good try mouth-breather!
Dan | 10:05 a.m. May 22, 2008
I clicked on this article to find out WHY, but just got the WHAT. Why has the
number of concealed handgun permits shot up? Why do out of state folks want a
Utah permit?
This kind of makes me want to get one, for the simple reason that so many others around me have one. Or to get one even if I do not intend to carry a handgun, just to skew the numbers.
Kind of sounds like the old joke about the guy that carries a bomb onto an airplane because the odds of being on an airplane with one bomb is high, but the odds of being on one that has two bombs is astronomical. Doesn't really make sense. Back in the old west I guess.
This kind of makes me want to get one, for the simple reason that so many others around me have one. Or to get one even if I do not intend to carry a handgun, just to skew the numbers.
Kind of sounds like the old joke about the guy that carries a bomb onto an airplane because the odds of being on an airplane with one bomb is high, but the odds of being on one that has two bombs is astronomical. Doesn't really make sense. Back in the old west I guess.
Roger | 10:30 a.m. May 22, 2008
I'm an non-resident of UT, UT CHL instructor. People want the permit
because it is so widely recognized by other states and their home states'
permits are not. Many states do not have as require the student to learn about
deadly force laws as the state of UT and that is one reason why the permit is
recognized by the other states. People who take my classes are concerned for
their safety and are law abiding. If they weren't law abiding, why would
they submit themselves to the background exam? There is no evidence to suggest
that UT residents with permits are any more law abiding than non-residents (US
citizens at least) with permits.
I don't think UT should stop issuing permits to non-residents because it is a win-win situation for all involved. If anything, raise the application fee for non-residents to cover the costs, but don't stop issuing the permits.
I don't think UT should stop issuing permits to non-residents because it is a win-win situation for all involved. If anything, raise the application fee for non-residents to cover the costs, but don't stop issuing the permits.
Nick | 10:33 a.m. May 22, 2008
The problem I see with stopping CCW permits for people from out of state is
this: what about active duty military who are stationed here? Just because my
home of record is in North Carolina, I have to fly back to my home state to get
a concealed handgun permit? It's nonsense. Personally, I wouldn't mind
paying a little extra for being from out of state. I'm sure it would be
quite a bit cheaper than paying for a plane ticket home.
Anonymous: Take a look at countries that banned firearms, and how crime statistically has increased after the firearms bans. Britain's crime has had no real change, and in some cases has increased. Most gun control measures are just feel-good methods that have no real end-effect.
Anonymous: Take a look at countries that banned firearms, and how crime statistically has increased after the firearms bans. Britain's crime has had no real change, and in some cases has increased. Most gun control measures are just feel-good methods that have no real end-effect.
Nathan Turner | 10:48 a.m. May 22, 2008
I'm glad to see this article and related comments. Not because i'm
looking for information on UT State laws, or on UT State Concealed Carry
permits, but rather that the article and comments themselves show the shift that
has occurred in this nation since the dark-days of the late 1980's and
early 1990's. Drink it in people. we are LIVING through a " Second
Amendment Renaissance". daily, more people exercise their rights. daily,
more people realize what great freedom we have as Americans, and take the place
of the near-extinct anti-gunner. 15 years ago, this article would have been
filled with anti-gun rhetoric, and the comments full of hate for all who own
guns. today we see [finally] neutral reporting, and a comments section full of
pro-gun responses. minus a couple of turds. you know the tides have shifted when
two (D) presidential candidates debate eachother on which is more PRO-gun.
Paul C | 11:16 a.m. May 22, 2008
The prophesy that The LDS would preserve the constitution is being manifest
again. One of the first times was the defeat of the "equal right
ammenment" in the 1970's which would have destoyed the American
family. Now Utah is on the forefront of protecting the 2nd Ammendment enabling
Americans everywhere to bear arms and protect themselves and their families.
Maybe the 3rd will be preservation of marriage as between male and female.
Rudy Kohn | 11:25 a.m. May 22, 2008
Wow. Lots of anti-rights people showing up.
That Utah's non-resident CCW licenses are skyrocketing in number because so many states accept the UT permits should be seen as a boon, not a problem. Reciprocity for most other states' permits is not nearly as complete as for Utah's.
If the costs are exceeding the inputs from fees, raise the fees. Don't make it harder for good people to carry. Having the ability to legally exercise your right to defend yourself in as many places as possible is a good thing.
That Utah's non-resident CCW licenses are skyrocketing in number because so many states accept the UT permits should be seen as a boon, not a problem. Reciprocity for most other states' permits is not nearly as complete as for Utah's.
If the costs are exceeding the inputs from fees, raise the fees. Don't make it harder for good people to carry. Having the ability to legally exercise your right to defend yourself in as many places as possible is a good thing.
Anonymous | 11:36 a.m. May 22, 2008
I see our neocon/NRA freaks are at it again screaming about their guns and
paranoid that their precious automatic weapon toys will be taken from them.
I also see the recent NRA national meeting was jam-packed with GOP loyalists, Romney included. All saying the anti-right messages.
What utter nonsense!
I also see the recent NRA national meeting was jam-packed with GOP loyalists, Romney included. All saying the anti-right messages.
What utter nonsense!
John | 12:07 p.m. May 22, 2008
Like driver's licenses, huh? If you're going to compare them to
DL's, then let's not overlook the fact that _anyone_ over the age of
16 can obtain a DL, regardless of the state of residence. Now if you want to
make CCW's truly like DL's and make them available to anyone in every
state, that's fine with me.
If UT doesn't want this Californian's permit renewal fees, tourist dollars, or online business dollars, that's their prerogative. Go ahead and shoot yourselves in the foot.
As for the benefit to UT of out-of-state permit holders... um... how about more GOOD guys on the street armed with guns! In case you haven't figured it out, we're not the problem, but we're sure a better solution to crime than any gun control legislation. Duh....
If UT doesn't want this Californian's permit renewal fees, tourist dollars, or online business dollars, that's their prerogative. Go ahead and shoot yourselves in the foot.
As for the benefit to UT of out-of-state permit holders... um... how about more GOOD guys on the street armed with guns! In case you haven't figured it out, we're not the problem, but we're sure a better solution to crime than any gun control legislation. Duh....
Clark Aposhian | 12:25 p.m. May 22, 2008
To Geno who says that he flew to Utah and obtained his permit and bought a
handgun and flew back. I submit that you are less than honest.
First the permit can take up to 60 days to be processed and 2nd. As a non Utah Resident you CANNOT purchase a handgun in Utah, only in your state of residence.
Out of state instructors are in fact monitored and Utah's BCI does revoke instructor credentials.
And for Bob G, Utah has the same ability to check credentials and residency, and citizenship status and criminal history as if the person applying was a Utah resident.
The Federal Government does NOT restrict firearm ownership to just U.S. Citizens either, nor does Utah with the CCW permits.
I know of a neighbor who has lived here all her life, has a job, paid taxes and raised a family. He is not a citizen, even though he has probably lived here longer than many of you. You want to deny him the right of lawful self-defense?
First the permit can take up to 60 days to be processed and 2nd. As a non Utah Resident you CANNOT purchase a handgun in Utah, only in your state of residence.
Out of state instructors are in fact monitored and Utah's BCI does revoke instructor credentials.
And for Bob G, Utah has the same ability to check credentials and residency, and citizenship status and criminal history as if the person applying was a Utah resident.
The Federal Government does NOT restrict firearm ownership to just U.S. Citizens either, nor does Utah with the CCW permits.
I know of a neighbor who has lived here all her life, has a job, paid taxes and raised a family. He is not a citizen, even though he has probably lived here longer than many of you. You want to deny him the right of lawful self-defense?
Anonymous | 12:41 p.m. May 22, 2008
You do not have to be a Utah resident to buy a gun from an individual.
an idea | 12:54 p.m. May 22, 2008
Why don't the NRA freaks meet in the West desert with their assault rifles,
pretend they are Rambos, and start thinning the herd?
Clark Aposhian | 12:59 p.m. May 22, 2008
a do if it is a handgun. Check usc 18 921
Clark Aposhian | 1:11 p.m. May 22, 2008
Oops I meant USC 18 922 A 5
and that applies to ALL firearms.
(a) It shall be unlawful -
(5) for any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed
manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) to
transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to
any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed
manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) who the
transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not
reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business
entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in
which the transferor resides
and that applies to ALL firearms.
(a) It shall be unlawful -
(5) for any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed
manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) to
transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to
any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed
manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) who the
transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not
reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business
entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in
which the transferor resides
To "An idea" | 1:16 p.m. May 22, 2008
Because most NRA freaks are honest, law abiding citizens that want to protect
themselves and their loved ones from people with warped senses of morality and
reality, like someone that would suggest they all get together and kill
themselves.
Anonymous | 1:34 p.m. May 22, 2008
I think a lot of you are missing the picture, Utah is trailblazing! The
reciprocity between Utah and other states is one of the best in the union. Why
do you want to strip others of their rights, CCW's are in my opinion
unconstitutional anyway, but Utah is helping to restore that by offering out of
state permits. They are making money off the deal and helping fellow Americans.
Whats the beef?? So what if you can't keep track of everybody. Its not
BCI's duty to police everybody with a permit. They issue them according to
the law, and we as holders follow the law. If not we go to jail, in the state
where the offense occurred, Utah isn't going to "extradite" just
because the person holds a Utah CCW.
I understand that most of you have no clue to whats really going, so before you write back and lecture me on how society should work, read and understand the Constitution, Declaration of Independence, and try to gain a small understanding of our Founding Fathers intent. And stay out of the way of my God given, constitutionally protected rights!
I understand that most of you have no clue to whats really going, so before you write back and lecture me on how society should work, read and understand the Constitution, Declaration of Independence, and try to gain a small understanding of our Founding Fathers intent. And stay out of the way of my God given, constitutionally protected rights!
nothing new here to report | 1:40 p.m. May 22, 2008
No, no To "An idea" -
NRA freaks are just another twisted GOP sub-group that bamboozles each other into thinking they are the "only true Americans" and that the demon un-Americans are out to take their guns (and rights) away from them.
And these poor souls have yet to realize they are being played for chumps by the GOP (What else is new?).
NRA freaks are just another twisted GOP sub-group that bamboozles each other into thinking they are the "only true Americans" and that the demon un-Americans are out to take their guns (and rights) away from them.
And these poor souls have yet to realize they are being played for chumps by the GOP (What else is new?).
Carl in Chicago | 3:16 p.m. May 22, 2008
"NRA Freaks?"
Please have some respect. The prejudice and discrimination is hurtful and narrow-minded.
I personally suspect the main reason they do it is because they sell. It's a good source of revenue, people want them, they are legal, and they are not harmful to society at large. It's simply the free market at work.
Someone opined that "private gun ownership is a joke." I submit that it is no joke. To the contrary, it is a fundamental right and perhaps the gravest of all rights. It's a huge responsibility, and of tremendous importance to freedom and decency. If you fail to acknowledge that, then I suspect you fail to grasp human history.
Please have some respect. The prejudice and discrimination is hurtful and narrow-minded.
I personally suspect the main reason they do it is because they sell. It's a good source of revenue, people want them, they are legal, and they are not harmful to society at large. It's simply the free market at work.
Someone opined that "private gun ownership is a joke." I submit that it is no joke. To the contrary, it is a fundamental right and perhaps the gravest of all rights. It's a huge responsibility, and of tremendous importance to freedom and decency. If you fail to acknowledge that, then I suspect you fail to grasp human history.
hamm | 3:22 p.m. May 22, 2008
Reason why not said: "If Utah gains a reputation for freely giving CCWs out
to everyone, then other states are likely not to join in reciprocity agreements
with Utah or to cancel them due to Utah's lack of strict
standards."
Utah has had this reciprocity standard since 1994. No state has complained in the last 14 years, why now?
Utah has had this reciprocity standard since 1994. No state has complained in the last 14 years, why now?
nuthin' new? | 3:32 p.m. May 22, 2008
You have to ask yourself why the Democrat candidates would prefer to not talk
about gun control. Could it be there are Democrats out there that still believe
in the Second Amendment?
DJ | 4:25 p.m. May 22, 2008
To the person who wrote:
"Imagine no handguns
I wonder if you can
Nothing to kill or die with
And no ammo too"
I wonder if the people of Rwanda, where a million people were massacred with machetes (no guns), see it that way?
My wife and I keep guns because there are only five deputies on duty for an area larger than the County of Los Angeles, and it could take an hour or more for help to come. The first time a drunk showed up at our gate (not easy to do way out where we are) at 6 am on a Sunday morning, with me out of town, I bought my wife a 12-gauge. And she knows how to use it. Plus there's the overpopulation of jackrabbits that'll eat our garden and our trees if we don't thin them. Try doing that without a firearm.
"Imagine no handguns
I wonder if you can
Nothing to kill or die with
And no ammo too"
I wonder if the people of Rwanda, where a million people were massacred with machetes (no guns), see it that way?
My wife and I keep guns because there are only five deputies on duty for an area larger than the County of Los Angeles, and it could take an hour or more for help to come. The first time a drunk showed up at our gate (not easy to do way out where we are) at 6 am on a Sunday morning, with me out of town, I bought my wife a 12-gauge. And she knows how to use it. Plus there's the overpopulation of jackrabbits that'll eat our garden and our trees if we don't thin them. Try doing that without a firearm.
DJ | 4:27 p.m. May 22, 2008
Oh, and by the way, I've only voted GOP once in my life, so don't lump
all of us gun owners together-- besides gun ownership, we may have little in
common. I also don't believe (nor do most people) that the 2nd Amendment
is without limits. For example, do I have the right to keep and bear my own
personal nuclear weapon? Few people would say yes.
As to firearms, I think Obama said it best: what makes sense in the country may not make sense in the city. Deal with it.
As to firearms, I think Obama said it best: what makes sense in the country may not make sense in the city. Deal with it.
Clark | 7:30 p.m. May 22, 2008
The whole "nuke weapons" argument as it relates to the 2nd A has
already been addressed by the SCOTUS.
Look it up.
Look it up.
Clark Aposhian | 7:39 p.m. May 22, 2008
Does the Second Amendment give me the right to own a nuclear bomb?
A: No, that's a strawman argument. US vs. Miller (supreme Court)
(1939) tells us what arms are meant in the Second Amendment:
"These show plainly enough that the Militia comprised all males physically capable of acting in concert for the common defense...
And further, that ordinarily when called for service these men were expected to appear bearing arms supplied by themselves and of a kind in common use at the time."
A: No, that's a strawman argument. US vs. Miller (supreme Court)
(1939) tells us what arms are meant in the Second Amendment:
"These show plainly enough that the Militia comprised all males physically capable of acting in concert for the common defense...
And further, that ordinarily when called for service these men were expected to appear bearing arms supplied by themselves and of a kind in common use at the time."
Clark Aposhian | 7:41 p.m. May 22, 2008
Does the Second Amendment give me the right to own a nuclear
bomb?
A: No, that's a straw man argument. US vs. Miller (Supreme Court)
(1939) tells us what arms are meant in the Second Amendment:
"These show plainly enough that the Militia comprised all males physically capable of acting in concert for the common defense...
And further, that ordinarily when called for service these men were expected to appear bearing arms supplied by themselves and of a kind in common use at the time."
bomb?
A: No, that's a straw man argument. US vs. Miller (Supreme Court)
(1939) tells us what arms are meant in the Second Amendment:
"These show plainly enough that the Militia comprised all males physically capable of acting in concert for the common defense...
And further, that ordinarily when called for service these men were expected to appear bearing arms supplied by themselves and of a kind in common use at the time."
.45 | 9:15 p.m. May 22, 2008
Headline: "Gun permits shoot up." Was a pun intended?
GC | 4:27 a.m. May 23, 2008
Egads. I've been considering picking up a Utah permit for some time as it
would simplify my business travels due to its' broadly accepted reciprocity
and enhance my safety in those travels.
Utah makes money(i.e., turns a profit) on the program, its' permit program is one of the most respected in the nation, its' objective standards strongly support civil rights, and the existing permit program creates no liability for Utah.
You want to mess with that why? How many other state programs MAKE money?
Utah makes money(i.e., turns a profit) on the program, its' permit program is one of the most respected in the nation, its' objective standards strongly support civil rights, and the existing permit program creates no liability for Utah.
You want to mess with that why? How many other state programs MAKE money?
jack | 6:31 a.m. May 23, 2008
I have a TX CHL (in fact, I am a CHL instructor). I was trained for a UT CHL by
another TX/UT CHL instructor in TX.
TX has reciprocity w/28 states, including UT.
My UT license give me 3 states - NV, WA and OH.
The reason TX does not have recip w/NV is we license 18 year olds (soldiers). I'd like recip w/NV but given the choice, I'd rather see our Irac vets be able to get licenses.
A UT license is half the cost of a TX or FL license.
TX has reciprocity w/28 states, including UT.
My UT license give me 3 states - NV, WA and OH.
The reason TX does not have recip w/NV is we license 18 year olds (soldiers). I'd like recip w/NV but given the choice, I'd rather see our Irac vets be able to get licenses.
A UT license is half the cost of a TX or FL license.
James Cameron | 2:00 p.m. May 23, 2008
Florida brings in substantial revenue from non-resident permitting and uses it
gladly. I fwe don't give other permits, tehy may cancel our reciprocity,
we will not have their intel in our system, we will not have them trained to our
standards, they will carry anyway in our state without our knowing it.
Hmmm. Dump all non-Utah permitting and turn away millions of free money that can supplement the program and other benefits for Utah. Then DPS will dig deeper into your tax dollars for funds to run the program. Yea, that make sense. After all I love paying more taxes! Stupid is as stupid does.
Hmmm. Dump all non-Utah permitting and turn away millions of free money that can supplement the program and other benefits for Utah. Then DPS will dig deeper into your tax dollars for funds to run the program. Yea, that make sense. After all I love paying more taxes! Stupid is as stupid does.
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It is easy to imagine laws that could be passed by other states allowing Utah residents to run businesses or sell products that we, as a society, find objectionable.
So why would we undermine the efforts of other states to control gun ownership?
This seems to violate the "golden rule" -- and I would hope that we, as a state, would set the example on such moral issues.