Deseret News | FLDS mother wins victory in court

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FLDS mother wins victory in court

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Anonymous | 8:58 a.m. May 17, 2008

This article reads "Authorities are still investigating if the original call was a hoax". It's well beyond common knowledge now the original call that led up to this whole mess was in fact a hoax, so why do all these articles continue to state that. The investigation will never be concluded, since it would destroy all credibility of Texas officials on how they handling this raid.

Sagacious Inquisitor | 9:13 a.m. May 17, 2008

Rich,

You are so right.

Law breakers "should be denied the right to have their children".

If one uses drugs (which is a crime) they should loose their children.

If one steals (which is a crime) they should loose their children.

If one drives recklessly or over the speed limit (which are crimes) they should loose their children.

If one is a polygamist (which, at least in Utah, is not a crime; regardless of what anyone might consider it to be) they should loose their children.

If one breaks any law, or violates any standard that others feel is a good justification, they should loose their children.

Sure. You are rignt . . . in a totalitarian State!

Which the USA is not supposed to be.

urwinnin | 9:15 a.m. May 17, 2008

Rich...polygamy is only a political crime...it was made illegal only so the feds would allow Utah to become a state. It was legal before that!! People who practiced it before weren't criminals then suddenly they were committing a crime....the difference was paper.

If they made food storage illegal, how many families in Utah would suddenly become criminals?

OH WAIT!!! The Clintons DID make food storage illegal!!!

Comments continue below

Jonathan Wurst | 9:20 a.m. May 17, 2008

"Sol Vason said:
"FLDS is not a licensed religion nor does it appear on the Texas Approved Religions list. Child Welfare is doing the right thing rescuing these children from an unapproved religion. Children should not be taught just any religion - it MUST be an Approved Texas religion."

Jonathan: You have GOT to be kidding me! "Licensed religion"??? "Approved Religions list"??? You're saying this "tongue in cheek", right?

And here I thought there was supposed to be a "separation of Church and State".

Sol seems to think that, no, there isn't a separation, but the State rules over religions, and that religions can only exist if the State says so. That the churches need to teach State approved doctrines. And, it appears that the State of Texas also believes this. Oh, wait, numerous other states also believe(d) this as well as the US Govt. by their persecution and tacit approval of the mobs actions towards the "Mormons".

Resistance, anyone?

Rich....think about this | 9:29 a.m. May 17, 2008

When people are only criminals because of the laws of man the law is the criminal ...polygamy is only a political crime...it was made illegal only so the feds would allow Utah to become a state. It was legal before that!! People who practiced it before weren't criminals then suddenly they were committing a crime....the difference was paper.

If they made food storage illegal, how many families in Utah would suddenly become criminals?

OH WAIT!!! The Clintons DID make food storage illegal!!!

the real fight | 9:35 a.m. May 17, 2008

Based on Lawrence v Texas and the recent CA Supreme Court ruling, I believe any attempt to prosecute a polygamous relationship between consenting adults will quickly become the test case that results in any ban on group marriage being declared unconstitutional. Only by each state adopting a contitutional definition of marriage as between one man and one woman can this be avoided. Get ready people. We are about to reap the whirlwind.

Observer from afar | 9:53 a.m. May 17, 2008

Take action, Americans! Don't sit back and talk, or post stuff on blogs. Do something about it! There's some excellent thinking going on now, more so than at first when 460+ kids were rounded-up by the CPS, Texas Rangers, etc. Put the kibosh on this matter. There are other ways to tackle suspected child abuse.
Correct me if I'm wrong: It's not illegal in the non-FLDS world for a husband/wife to have multiple partners, or for any man/woman to have sex with dozens of men/women, but when the FLDS have more than one partner then it is? I may not agree with their beliefs, but there's something wrong with the equation.
Verifiable statistics show that young people today are more sexually active than ever.
If, however, there is abuse with older men taking child "wives" - then go after them - but don't punish every kid on the block.
And don't jump to conclusions (ie that the 18-year-old's husband was some dirty old man -- he was 22). This is truly a sad era in American history.
You have a wonderful Constitution. Don't give it up!

Michigander | 10:15 a.m. May 17, 2008

When the DNA get's tangled out you will see a lot of children returned to their mothers, with a parenting plan. I am sure that the druggie mother you talked about had a parenting or servicing plan,I never heard of children being released without one.This is temporarily, not final, all is getting sorted out now.
But the sorting out may be difficult when you are dealing with over 400 kids and only have maybe 10 last names to tag them to.The mothers living in monogamous relationships, have proper ID, their husbands, too, will get their children back the earliest.But there will be strict supervision for some time to come.The mothers who messed with the ID bracelets int he coliseum, who fudged on the ages, will have to jumpt through more hoops...

Ed T | 10:25 a.m. May 17, 2008

Wow, let's get her child back to her so the circle can continue. Married at 14 for girls or tossed out at 16 for boys. Where is the right for a parent to raise their children so they can submit them to abuse as soon as they reach puberty? Texas is spot on on this one. Sad that Utah's Attorney General still stands idle.

To: Observer from afar | 11:49 a.m. May 17, 2008

ummmmmm.
Where have I heard the word: "afar" in the context of the FLDS?

Samme | 12:23 p.m. May 17, 2008

Correct me if I'm wrong: It's not illegal in the non-FLDS world for a husband/wife to have multiple partners, or for any man/woman to have sex with dozens of men/women, but when the FLDS have more than one partner then it is?'

Texas thinks it's wrong, apparently, if it's taught as a religion. The actual act of multiple partners, sans religion, is OK.

Freddie | 12:34 p.m. May 17, 2008

"That children see their attorneys as evil-gentiles indicates severe emotional abuse."

Emotional abuse? Ha-ha. Lawyers are seen by many across this country to be evil.

Crying in California | 1:01 p.m. May 17, 2008

Last time I checked, the Second Amendment was about the right to bear arms. That aside, we can all kiss our butts goodbye because the Constitution is being trampled on every day, and we sit by and squawk, but basically do nothing. Hmm....maybe the Second Amendment will be what it takes to sort this mess out. I believe someone quoted the Founding Fathers on that earlier. Oh, wait, they already took our Second Amendment rights away here. Wow. So...exactly HOW do we go about preventing/solving/dealing with government abuses? Oh, and the whole "approved religion in Texas" idea- now THAT is scary. Soon, all of our kids will be taken away if we don't believe what the government is pushing? I'm sick. Does anyone see where this is leading?

To: Crying in California | 1:06 p.m. May 17, 2008

you say: "Does anyone see where this is leading?"
-------------
I just got done reading an indepth piece at the trib about Uncle Warren. Hopefully this is leading to the end of tyranny in the guise of religion and a chance to live an at-choice life for many now trapped by the Uncle Warren's of the world.

Mary | 1:11 p.m. May 17, 2008

Okay, so polygamy is not a crime, you are all right. But bigamy is a crime in all states. These people practice polygamy, but they are guilty of bigamy. The states and the feds do have the right to enact and enforce the laws, they don't have the right to enforce religious behavior.
Just as the Commandment says, "thou shalt not kill", there are no laws against "killing", but there are laws against MURDER, HOMICIDE, or MANSLAUGHTER. So, for those who say that there is no law against polygamy, you are right, but only spewing 1/2 facts.

COSMO | 3:09 p.m. May 17, 2008

Well my friends,what will you have to say by next year,when polygamy is declared constitutionally protected? After the Court decision in California, this will be what happens. This act will open the flood gates. I think we are in for a treacherous ride.

wrz | 3:38 p.m. May 17, 2008

"Okay, so polygamy is not a crime, you are all right. But bigamy is a crime in all states. These people practice polygamy, but they are guilty of bigamy."

They are not committing bigamy or polygamy. They marry one civilly and the others spiritually. Then have relations with them all. Not unlike most of the rest of the world.

"The states and the feds do have the right to enact and enforce the laws, they don't have the right to enforce religious behavior."

What the state of Texas is doing is tantamount to making laws regarding religion when they insist that these people give up their religious practices and teachings in order to get their children back.

To: wrz | 4:16 p.m. May 17, 2008

"What the state of Texas is doing is tantamount to making laws regarding religion when they insist that these people give up their religious practices and teachings in order to get their children back."
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Wrong as usual. What has to be given up is tyranny, oppression and abuse. They can prey to rocks or horses for all anyone cares ....

Bryan | 5:24 p.m. May 17, 2008

Unfortunately, Texas is not the only state that allows and supports unbridled power to Protective Services. The ability to yank children from homes and from custody of lawful parents that DCFS posesses is simply frightening. Guilty until proven inocent on the grounds of protecting the children is the policy. What is really frightening is what happens to children in foster families and "ranches" and inpatient facilities designed to protect them. The entire nation should revolt.

Judy | 5:52 p.m. May 17, 2008

To Mahershalalhashbaz

The Jews in the western world have not practiced polgamy for about 1000 years. It was outlawed by Rabbi Gershon ben Judah. This ruling was extended to Jews from Arab countries (where polygamy is alive and well) with the establishment of the State of Israel. A friend of mine whose family came from Morocco grew up with an "aunt' who was her father's first wife but the younger wife was one legally registered as the wife when they came to Israel because she was still having children. In Israel, Bedouin still practice polygamy (illegally) and the problems are very similar to those with FLDS--welfare fraud, spousal abuse, underage marriage and sexual abuse. Israel has found that female education and skills training are the best preventative measures, better than direct enforcement against an underground practice

I pray for the children | 5:56 p.m. May 17, 2008

The issue here is not about religion. It's about child abuse. Forcing anyone to marry anyone is abuse no matter what the age. But forcing children to marry old men is beyond abuse. The men should be locked up. I feel sorry for the women. They are taught that they have to obey the "Prophet" at all costs. Can't they see that the Prophet is only satisfying his own lust with these young girls. Open your eyes women of polygamy. Your rights are being violated as human beings by the FLDS. You would lose your children for a false prophet? Jeffs admitted he was not really a prophet so why can't you see that it's true. I pray that these women see the light and do the right thing. I pray that the children are returned to their mothers and that the mothers will protect them at any cost. Even excommunication from the FLDS. God gave us women children to protect not give to dirty old men.

To: Bryan | 5:57 p.m. May 17, 2008

Bryan writes: "The entire nation should revolt."
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I'm 51 years old, born and raised in Texas, have lived all my adult life in California and I've NEVER met ANYONE whose had their child taken away and believe me, California is that capitol of weird.

While I know that it happens, i'll be willing to bet that there is ALWAYS a reason behind a removal.

The nation won't revold Mr. Poly guy. This isn't 1953. The word is out about Uncle Warren and his abusive ways by his own mouth (many many recordings) in addition to indepth articles like at the trib archives.

Millstone | 6:27 p.m. May 17, 2008

CPS is out of control in Texas and it is scary to watch especially for parents living in Texas. Things have changed in the last twenty years and not for the better.

Crying in California | 6:26 p.m. May 17, 2008

I did not mean to imply that I condone what happened to some of those girls. I am a mother of four, and I would DIE before I let anyone touch one of my kids or try to force them into anything against their will. My concern is that CPS in Texas (or anywhere, for that matter) can come in and take away over four hundred kids and EVERY PARENT loses their rights over a PHONE CALL. Texas officials have known, as have the officials in Arizona and Utah and Canada and other places, that this is going on and has been going on for decades. They have rarely chosen to do anything to help those poor kids. Why now? Why this way?

wyogirl | 6:59 p.m. May 17, 2008

So, where is Daddy Jessop? The article doesn't mention the FATHER of this baby. Surely someone in this "peaceful" and "righteous" community knows who the Daddy is - why didn't they tell him his young wife was fighting in the courts so that her baby didn't get taken away? OH, maybe he was just too busy to show up? Of course, she is probably wife number...who knows what to this man, he probably didn't even know her very well when he "married" her and impregnated her - but I'm sure she was "sweet." I hope the state of Texas can find out who he is so that they can ask him to help pay the hospital bill - not the mention the money needed to support this baby and his other child. I'm glad Ms. Jessop got to keep some form of custody of her infant - I can only imagine how heartbroken she must have been. I'm sure those children were everything she had in life. Too bad she never had the right to pick a real man to father her children.

Texas isn't to blame for Mrs Jessops' suffering - her "spiritual" husband is.

To: Crying in California | 7:17 p.m. May 17, 2008

you say: "My concern is that CPS in Texas (or anywhere, for that matter) can come in and take away over four hundred kids and EVERY PARENT loses their rights over a PHONE CALL."
--------------------------
Please stop, rather please continue, the world needs to see what you're trying to do.

It's not about the PHONE CALL. Once inside the compound, cirsumstances could NOT be ignored. It's just like the police having a warrant to come into my house for suspicion of drugs and once there they spot my dead wife. They cannot say: "no drugs, sorry, carry on." It's the systematic abuse of arranged marriage and forced correction of the boy/girl ratio that makes THE ENVIRONMENT dangerous ,,, but please continue with your line of posting, it makes the case.

To Wyogirl..It's still interesti | 8:11 p.m. May 17, 2008

Love your posts...that along with Gal50..I don't get to read these very often, but when I do, you both seem to say what I'm thinking. As far as Daddy Jessop goes, J-Man has been asking about him repeatedly. The FLDS supporters seem to think that they and they alone are "in the know". But they seem to ignore that question each and every time that it comes up. I still think that Uncle Merrill is hiding in plain site...somewhere in these postings.

Anonymous | 8:31 p.m. May 17, 2008

It is likely that Pamela's husband will be charged with statuatory rape if he is the daddy to her older children.

to anonymous | 9:13 p.m. May 17, 2008

In order convict him of statutory rape they would have to prove that the conception happened in Texas

further anonymous | 9:36 p.m. May 17, 2008

In Texas until either 2 or 3 years ago the legal age of consent was 14...it could be that it was legal and consensual sex when the first ones were conceived.

Anonymous | 9:39 p.m. May 17, 2008

saddened | 7:33 p.m. May 16, 2008
the way these folk are being treated is un-American

You're right...they aren't in America...they are in Texas

Veiled motives | 9:42 p.m. May 17, 2008

So now it comes out that Roger Clemens recently was with a young sweet thing (but not his legal wife), while still married with kids at home.

Why aren't the authorities beating a path to take away his kids, and those of his teammates who act the same (Arod for one).

Yes, prosecute the lawbreakers, but gosh, give the kids back to their moms while sorting the mess out. Tx CPS and judge have ulterior motives here... with Religious overtones.

fMT division | 10:28 p.m. May 17, 2008

It's only a matter of time until all the LDS men will leave their angry LDS wives and end up becoming members in the FLDS church so that they can have more than one wife. Church division is coming.

fMT division | 1:07 p.m. May 20, 2008

Is smoking something very illegal!

fMT | 1:21 p.m. May 20, 2008

I think its sad what you are spending your time trying to do.. Church division? haha

Lois | 7:23 p.m. June 20, 2008

Those women did show their birth certificate and drivers license. The CPS said it was fraud and would'nt belive, are they (CPS) calling the state of Utah liars? Not any of what CPS has said about FLDS is true!!!!! Nothing has been proven!

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