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FLDS mother wins victory in court
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Anonymous | 7:20 p.m. May 16, 2008
Funny how Walther doesn't find it a conflict to be the one who issued the
search and to preside over the aftermath, but does when a lawyer would represent
a child AND its mother.
Randy | 7:23 p.m. May 16, 2008
You call that a victory?...Heck let me have 100 bucks from you..and maybe if I
feel good, I will let you keep 50 bucks of your money! Power of te State.
saddened | 7:33 p.m. May 16, 2008
the way these folk are being treated is un-American
Comments continue below
age of consent | 7:41 p.m. May 16, 2008
Did I miss a change in law? Because the woman is "under 21" the state
will maintain control though the court will allow her to remain with the
children. When did 21 become the new age of consent?
Hey | 7:48 p.m. May 16, 2008
At least CPS admitted she is not a minor.
KY mom | 7:49 p.m. May 16, 2008
Okay, my high school junior sits in class with a boy (16) who brags about
fathering 3 children with 3 girls and not having to pay child support because he
is in high school and unemployed. My 10 year old could not have xrays until she
signed a paper saying she is not pregnant because there are so many pregnant
children (not teens, children under 13) in town.
Does anyone else see a double standard? If you are raised in a "cult" you can be taken from your family because you might "marry" at an unlawful age... But if you don't claim to be married, you can have as many babies as you want as young as you want as long as the daddy isn't too old.
Are the FLDS doing something wrong? I don't know because my only information has come from the news... But surely there must be a more reasonable way to look into this than taking EVERY child away. An 18 year old has her newborn taken away... Because the mother is too young? because she might influence her child? Oh come on.... What is this doing to these kids? I can't imagine, can you?
Does anyone else see a double standard? If you are raised in a "cult" you can be taken from your family because you might "marry" at an unlawful age... But if you don't claim to be married, you can have as many babies as you want as young as you want as long as the daddy isn't too old.
Are the FLDS doing something wrong? I don't know because my only information has come from the news... But surely there must be a more reasonable way to look into this than taking EVERY child away. An 18 year old has her newborn taken away... Because the mother is too young? because she might influence her child? Oh come on.... What is this doing to these kids? I can't imagine, can you?
Sandy & Family | 7:56 p.m. May 16, 2008
Why doesn't CPS just throw the Constitution out the window? This is not an
America worth fighting for any longer. I am more ashamed of being a US citizen
& Texan than all of my life. I would give up my citizenship to this
pathetic so-called free country. We have no freedom any longer. We can not
teach our children right and wrong by God's standards anymore because of
hate crimes laws being passed. We can not live behind locked gates because then
we are hiding something. In case the government hasn't noticed our lives
are none of their business. My choice of religion if any is none of their
concern. This has and is showing exactly what I have known all along and has
become the terrorist organization themselves. They should figure there was no
case here and just let it go but they are gonna make a bunch of single mothers
instead,that is just what our society needs. Not!!!
John | 8:00 p.m. May 16, 2008
It will probably take a revolution before these CPS are removed from
power..."But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing
invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute
Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government,
and to provide new Guards for their future security"...
I honestly believe that by allowing or supporting such actions, our government is no longer benevolent and is more harmful to us than it is beneficial. They have violated nearly all of the protections guaranteed by the Constitution.
I honestly believe that by allowing or supporting such actions, our government is no longer benevolent and is more harmful to us than it is beneficial. They have violated nearly all of the protections guaranteed by the Constitution.
Mediocrates | 8:03 p.m. May 16, 2008
I don't feel bad at all, if the court is looking at the FLDS community with
a little more scrutiny. Its clear that there is SOME kind of sexual abuse of
minors there. Look at all the underage mothers "married" to older
perverts. As for the Jessop girl, what's so bad about the state checking
up on her babies?
Sol Vason | 8:14 p.m. May 16, 2008
FLDS is not a licensed religion nor does it appear on the Texas Approved
Religions list. Child Welfare is doing the right thing rescuing these children
from an unapproved religion. Children should not be taught just any religion -
it MUST be an Approved Texas religion.
Txmom | 8:17 p.m. May 16, 2008
There is a famous quote about changing the laws to get the Devil, and what are
you going to do when the winds blow and they come for you.
What is wrong is that this could happen to any of us. Sure we don't like what the FLDS seem to be doing, but we must make sure that their rights are protected or else what are we going to do when the winds turn towards us.
What is wrong is that this could happen to any of us. Sure we don't like what the FLDS seem to be doing, but we must make sure that their rights are protected or else what are we going to do when the winds turn towards us.
Lilathe | 8:17 p.m. May 16, 2008
So you won't feel bad when they take your child or grandchild because your
neighbor's daughter is pregnant and both families are good friends and
close?
reed | 8:20 p.m. May 16, 2008
"where girls grow up to become child brides, and boys grow up to become
sexual perpetrators"
mmhhhh. Is this sentence describing the YFZ ranch or the perverted state of our so called modern society?
mmhhhh. Is this sentence describing the YFZ ranch or the perverted state of our so called modern society?
Thomas | 8:28 p.m. May 16, 2008
The CPS is beginning to become unglued. They decided that these young women were
underage just by looking at them. Common sense may prevail.
No longer Free | 8:43 p.m. May 16, 2008
The Land of the Free has become the Land of the Regulated where someone in a
Government Agency decides what is acceptable for you & your family. Smacks
of social communism to me. I quit fighting & moved out of the country to be
free. China talks communism but does capitalism better than the U.S. now. My
Chinese wife starts receiving her Chinese retirement pay (Social Security) when
she turns 55. So who will have a better quality of life from the age of 55, her
or me, who, in the U.S., has to work until 67 to retire. Health care as good, if
not better, in Thailand & China. & won't break your what
you've worked for to leave for your family. We own poperties in the U.S.,
Austria, Guam & China. I think we will end up in Thailand. In Thailand, for
whatever your "Family" lifestyle is, do your job, don't talk bad
about the King (anything else is OK), have fun. We quit fighting the U.S.
Mega-Beaurocracy. We are gone to a place with a much higher average quality of
life, where, if you are of legal age, your "Family" values don't
matter to the government.
urwinnin | 8:50 p.m. May 16, 2008
"approved religion"???? Have you read the first amendment? ALL
religions are approved....the government is prohibited from the approval process
in the United States Of America....if there must be an approval process...let
Joseph Stalin handle that...he did a great job!!!
Earl Re: Sol Vason | 8:51 p.m. May 16, 2008
Approved Texas religion ???
Where is this list?? I need a copy so I can start my discrimination law suit!!
Where is this list?? I need a copy so I can start my discrimination law suit!!
Punish the crime | 8:55 p.m. May 16, 2008
Not the entire community. Until we as American citizens stand up to the people
we put in to office and tell them NO MORE! We have no one else to blame but
ourselves for these actions being taken. This country is heading down a scary
path and I hope we wake up soon . Watch the few that get what they want because
they scream louder they we do. Just look at California.
Freedom | 9:11 p.m. May 16, 2008
So the FLDS is not a licensed religion nor does it appear on the Texas Approved
Religions what does that mean. We need to have state approval of how we believe
now. Texas is worse of then I thought before.
So scary | 9:18 p.m. May 16, 2008
Apparently CPS can decide that pregnant woman might be a minor if she looks
young, take that woman into custody until the baby is born, take the baby into
custody, meanwhile demanding that woman prove she is not a minor.
I wonder if this only applies to FLDS or to the rest of us as well?
I wonder if this only applies to FLDS or to the rest of us as well?
Gal50 | 9:19 p.m. May 16, 2008
It's still unclear to what extent this community conspired to promote child
abuse by forcing underage girls to be sexually active and kicking boys out of
their homes. Many of the females are pregnant or have given birth, but no one
knows their ages. For some, there are no records indicating age. Texas is going
to have to rely on lost boys and families who have left the FLDS to determine
estimated ages for some of these girls. Additionally, when we consider that
Elissa Wall was married and raped at 14 but had no children, we have to consider
that some of the girls who are not pregnant are sexually active. The girls will
need to have physical exams. What percentage of girls needs to have had sex for
there to be a community conspiracy?
Using a mathematical model to determine the age-sex breakdown, it's clear that unless teen girls were shipped into the compound there are some girls who are women, but there's a also a shortage of 29 boys which means that something unnatural occurred.
CPS seems to be considering only the most concrete abuse. That children see their attorneys as evil-gentiles indicates severe emotional abuse.
Using a mathematical model to determine the age-sex breakdown, it's clear that unless teen girls were shipped into the compound there are some girls who are women, but there's a also a shortage of 29 boys which means that something unnatural occurred.
CPS seems to be considering only the most concrete abuse. That children see their attorneys as evil-gentiles indicates severe emotional abuse.
Can you count? | 9:27 p.m. May 16, 2008
If some/many disputed minors are adult women, then there are no shortage of
boys.
CPS already admitted two of those disputed minors are adult women.
CPS already admitted two of those disputed minors are adult women.
Try to explain this again. | 9:34 p.m. May 16, 2008
The mother that is being talked about is now an adult (18) with a new born baby,
but she also has two other children, do the math, she got pregnant at early 18
or late 17 for the last, that makes it either 17 and 16 or 16 and 15 for the
other two.
How many times do people have to say, this isn't about polygamy, or religion, it is about young girls underage being forced to marry and have sex with adult men. It is against the law, and there are many women that have escaped this group and told of the abuse and sick things that went on.
How sick is it to be willing to assume that this is not happening at the cost of young girls, I would rather take the risk to protect these girls, then the risk the other way. What is wrong with you people who are attacking CPS and defending this group? Forcing boys to leave and young girls to have sex is wrong wrong wrong.
How many times do people have to say, this isn't about polygamy, or religion, it is about young girls underage being forced to marry and have sex with adult men. It is against the law, and there are many women that have escaped this group and told of the abuse and sick things that went on.
How sick is it to be willing to assume that this is not happening at the cost of young girls, I would rather take the risk to protect these girls, then the risk the other way. What is wrong with you people who are attacking CPS and defending this group? Forcing boys to leave and young girls to have sex is wrong wrong wrong.
Mary | 9:45 p.m. May 16, 2008
If a girl refuses to provide ID or has no ID, how would you expect anyone to
know if she was a minor or an adult? If the parents won't cooperate, then
the State has no choice but to "guess".
The comments about all of the teenager that are pregnant...yes, it's a sad statement about society, but the mothers of these girls didn't send them out to live as a wife to become impregnated, nor are most of the father's of these girls' babies old enough to be their fathers and/or grandfathers. most of the girls that you are talking about in your community had sex with their "boyfriend" (by whatever definition they use), who is close in age. If the boy is 3+ years older, the state will look at that as child rape. If there is a 13 year old bragging about fathering children, his parents will be held accountable for his actions and the bill will cotinue to mount until he is an adult and has a job. What a lack of morals we have in our community.
The comments about all of the teenager that are pregnant...yes, it's a sad statement about society, but the mothers of these girls didn't send them out to live as a wife to become impregnated, nor are most of the father's of these girls' babies old enough to be their fathers and/or grandfathers. most of the girls that you are talking about in your community had sex with their "boyfriend" (by whatever definition they use), who is close in age. If the boy is 3+ years older, the state will look at that as child rape. If there is a 13 year old bragging about fathering children, his parents will be held accountable for his actions and the bill will cotinue to mount until he is an adult and has a job. What a lack of morals we have in our community.
She does not have | 9:48 p.m. May 16, 2008
three children. She has two. The baby is her second child.
why hate the Moms? | 9:48 p.m. May 16, 2008
They are really just children who would not have gotten pregnant had they not
suffered psychological and physical rape. Why not punish their perpetrators and
let the Moms stay with their children as long as they don't go back to the
compound?
Her husband is not 50. | 9:55 p.m. May 16, 2008
He is a young man. And in TX it was legal for 14 years old to marry with
parental consent until 3 years ago.
wcoc103 | 10:09 p.m. May 16, 2008
why hate the Moms? | 9:48 p.m. May 16, 2008
They are really just children who would not have gotten pregnant had they not suffered psychological and physical rape. Why not punish their perpetrators and let the Moms stay with their children as long as they don't go back to the compound?
------------------------------------------------
Why not leave them alone since they have no case to speak of. They denied all the birth certs and chose to go their own way on everything! Is there no law down there that the lawmakers have to follow?? What a mess!
They are really just children who would not have gotten pregnant had they not suffered psychological and physical rape. Why not punish their perpetrators and let the Moms stay with their children as long as they don't go back to the compound?
------------------------------------------------
Why not leave them alone since they have no case to speak of. They denied all the birth certs and chose to go their own way on everything! Is there no law down there that the lawmakers have to follow?? What a mess!
Mexico | 10:28 p.m. May 16, 2008
The last time I checked, the border to Mexico is still open. If most of you are
so disgruntled with Texas, the Federal government, CPS, and whomever else you
can think of to complain about, then I suggest that you pack up and move on.
See what happens there if you complain about their government.
Bruce | 10:32 p.m. May 16, 2008
"Why not punish their perpetrators and let the Moms stay with their
children as long as they don't go back to the compound? "
Why do the media's sheep keep refering to these peoples' ranch as a "compound"?
It's a ranch..a gated community..their chosen place of residence.
Why in the world could they not go back there?
This is America. We can live in any community that we choose.
Why do the media's sheep keep refering to these peoples' ranch as a "compound"?
It's a ranch..a gated community..their chosen place of residence.
Why in the world could they not go back there?
This is America. We can live in any community that we choose.
What Victory | 10:54 p.m. May 16, 2008
It will only be a victory when all the children are reunited with their parents
and the CPS minds their own business.
If the CPS keeps insisting they need to keep these people under a spy class then we need to do the same with all the people in CPS that have avused their power
If the CPS keeps insisting they need to keep these people under a spy class then we need to do the same with all the people in CPS that have avused their power
ashamed in Orem | 10:57 p.m. May 16, 2008
I am also ashamed to be an American. Quit the witch hunt on the FLDS. Yeah they
may have strange beliefs, but they have religious freedoms too. Well, they are
supposed to anyway.
???? | 11:02 p.m. May 16, 2008
this 18 yr old mother.. is she legally married? or "spiritually
married"? is she the only wife? i missed out on that information
El Woodo | 11:29 p.m. May 16, 2008
Judge Walther is bringing up conflict of interest cases? What a laugh.... SHE
is the conflict of interest. Having the same Judge that issued the warrants
hear the cases is beyond me. You expect me to believe that she will be
impartial and Fair? i BEG to differ, she is going to do whatever it takes to
justify HER actions, even if it means tearing apart the very Constitution we all
claim to value so much.... SEND EM HOME WALTHER.... and may you never know
another peaceful day in your life. "THERE WILL BE A RECKONING" that
i assure you
The only thing I read | 12:24 a.m. May 17, 2008
is that her husband is listed as 22 years old.
So, she is a young adult woman with a young adult husband, unknown whether spiritual or legal.
So, she is a young adult woman with a young adult husband, unknown whether spiritual or legal.
Margaret | 12:50 a.m. May 17, 2008
I am an emigrant from the former Soviet Union, and such terrible violations of
human rights were possible there only under Stalin's rule. Why is it
happening now in America, "the country of liberty"? Did the USA turn
into totalitarian state or was it always like that? Who invented the law
allowing CPS tear the families apart just because they want to do so as it is
profitable for them?
I am so sorry for the children and the parents. The judge Walther should be fired and required to pay compensation to those families. Same about CPS officials.
I am so sorry for the children and the parents. The judge Walther should be fired and required to pay compensation to those families. Same about CPS officials.
This has to stop | 1:19 a.m. May 17, 2008
I think the only way to stop this insanity nationwide is to start passive
resistance among mandatory reporters. For those of us who are not mandatory
reporters (teachers, nurses, doctors etc), please spread this information on
your blogs, your casual daily conversations, etc...
The mandatory reporters I know mostly do not realize either the effect of their call or the extent of the powers of the CPS.
If even one family can be saved from going through this misery, we have achieved something. The resistance has to start somewhere, as clearly the government reforms are not forthcoming soon enough.
The mandatory reporters I know mostly do not realize either the effect of their call or the extent of the powers of the CPS.
If even one family can be saved from going through this misery, we have achieved something. The resistance has to start somewhere, as clearly the government reforms are not forthcoming soon enough.
Rich | 2:07 a.m. May 17, 2008
Tell the 16-year-old boy who has fathered three children that he will have to
pay child support when he turns 18. It costs a lot to support a child, and his
wages will be garnered for at least 16 years. If he really wants to dig a hole
for himself, he should go out and impregnate a few more girls.
Seriously, as for the polygamists, I think they should be considered criminals because they are. The states should prosecute them for polygamy, regardless of whether child brides are involved. Anybody who declines to abandon the principle should be denied the right to have their children just as a drug user should be denied the right to have their children.
Seriously, as for the polygamists, I think they should be considered criminals because they are. The states should prosecute them for polygamy, regardless of whether child brides are involved. Anybody who declines to abandon the principle should be denied the right to have their children just as a drug user should be denied the right to have their children.
Dallas Inner City | 4:37 a.m. May 17, 2008
When are the Texas Rangers going to raid the Dallas inner-city homes of pregnant
14-year-olds and cart off the other children, who might be subject to similar
abuse? And when will they shutter the Planned Parenthood locations which refuse
to report statutory rape of 14-year-olds by men in their twenties? Why
isn't there equal treatment under Texas' law?
CHL | 5:07 a.m. May 17, 2008
To No Longer Free:
Asia is all about appearances to the western world. There is more corruption, human rights violations, animal violations to take them to extinction, human rights violations, child slavery, more poverty then even most of our middle class. And yes we live in Korea right now, and have traveled around Asia to see this disparity. We still have the most freedoms, and respected of laws, and many of these countries try to emulate them without success. No longer free - you are apparently in a bubble.
Asia is all about appearances to the western world. There is more corruption, human rights violations, animal violations to take them to extinction, human rights violations, child slavery, more poverty then even most of our middle class. And yes we live in Korea right now, and have traveled around Asia to see this disparity. We still have the most freedoms, and respected of laws, and many of these countries try to emulate them without success. No longer free - you are apparently in a bubble.
megachurch | 5:47 a.m. May 17, 2008
A minister, Joe Barron, of a baptist megachurch was busted for sex crimes. When
do his congregants have their children removed for their "protection?"
Clearly CPS will have to check ALL the children to make sure no crimes have
taken place. It would seem only fair and logical.
How do they tell the age? | 6:21 a.m. May 17, 2008
How do the CPS tell how old they are? Do they just cut them open and count the
rings?
Mahershalalhashbaz | 6:34 a.m. May 17, 2008
Polygamy cannot be banned legally unless there is an amendment to the
constitution. It is a RELIGIOUS practice. Don't believe me, ask the
Muslims. Ask the Jews then if you don't believe me. Or ask the LDS, or
the FLDS. Ask the so called Christians (you can read about it in your OLD
TESTAMENT). To quote the Second amendment (which many here have no idea what
I'm talking about) "Congress shall make no law regarding an
establishment of religion". NO LAW!!!!!! Pretty darned clear. Except to
some past and present idiots that claim they have law degrees but still lack
reading comprehension skills on a 3rd grade level. And that includes the age of
these girls getting married. Stay the heck out of their lives CPS. IF you
think what they are doing is evil (like I do), then you have the freedom to
educate them why. In your spare time you go out and teach them why it is wrong.
And as for Texas having an approved list of religions, I have a list of
approved Governments, and Texas' CPS does not fall on my list!!!!!!
Amen Rich | 6:37 a.m. May 17, 2008
Excellent posting
COSMO | 7:44 a.m. May 17, 2008
RE:Mexico;This is MY country,and MY freedoms, and if
you feel compelled to goosestep,then it is you that has the problem. If you can't handle my freedoms, get out of My country, you are not worthy to be here! Also Gal50,you keep bringing up that the FLDS
girls all need to be examined. I think you need to see a shrink.
you feel compelled to goosestep,then it is you that has the problem. If you can't handle my freedoms, get out of My country, you are not worthy to be here! Also Gal50,you keep bringing up that the FLDS
girls all need to be examined. I think you need to see a shrink.
kit | 7:55 a.m. May 17, 2008
many have spoken of teenage girls being forced into sex. Well what about or own
society in which their are billboards, commercials, and every other form of
sexual propaganda being forced on our children.I hate tp break it to you but
every child is being forced into sex.
To Rich | 7:57 a.m. May 17, 2008
Ok, let's see if this gets past the censors. You are so right. I would
like to see the older men have to support their 40 something kids also. Would
get pretty expensive quick.
Mahonri | 8:03 a.m. May 17, 2008
The mother is 18, legal to vote, join the military and fight in Iraq... but she
can't keep her Baby with her without State Permission?
Why not bring back Slavery in Texas too?
Why not bring back Slavery in Texas too?
where is the father | 8:08 a.m. May 17, 2008
why is he not seeking the child also?
ac | 8:12 a.m. May 17, 2008
I have a sister who has spent several years as a foster parent. She was
devestated recently when a young child she had come to love was returned to a
drug addicted mother who had admitted to fantasies of killing him. She was told
that the main focus of CPS was returning children to their birth parents. Since
the mother had shown very minimal signs of improvement they sent the child she
had abused and dreamed of killing back to her.
Are these mothers drug addicts with a desire to kill their children? Is CPS even figuring out which of them are forcing children into marraige? No. This is insane.
I'm not condoning child brides or the way the women of this community are being controlled. But we need to deal with them as individuals not lump them all together and cause them further abuse in the name of saving them. Why does a drug addict have more rights then a woman who is trying to live her religion?
Are these mothers drug addicts with a desire to kill their children? Is CPS even figuring out which of them are forcing children into marraige? No. This is insane.
I'm not condoning child brides or the way the women of this community are being controlled. But we need to deal with them as individuals not lump them all together and cause them further abuse in the name of saving them. Why does a drug addict have more rights then a woman who is trying to live her religion?
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