Reader comments
Lawmakers want failure to equal loss of diploma
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Anonymous | 12:59 a.m. May 16, 2008
I teach middle school and if you asked most middle school teachers what UBSCT is
they wouldn't know.
There is NO communication between middle schools and high schools except things like, "What did you guys do to this group of kids? They have been the toughest group yet..."
The testing is a joke.
Where do we get these names? UBISCUIT....UPASS....etc....
There is NO communication between middle schools and high schools except things like, "What did you guys do to this group of kids? They have been the toughest group yet..."
The testing is a joke.
Where do we get these names? UBISCUIT....UPASS....etc....
Anonymous | 7:22 a.m. May 16, 2008
Worried about federal funding for college? If a student can't pass the
UBSCT test after three they're probably not the type of student that is
even considering going to college. If a student can't pass after tries
it's because they haven't tried. The test is so easy it's a joke.
It's exactly what it says it is - a BASIC skills test. I think you get half
the points for putting your name in correctly :)
Comments continue below
Student | 7:47 a.m. May 16, 2008
I graduated from a Utah highschool, but I was raised in Maryland and went to one
highschool while living there. Let me tell you, the testing situations are
TOTALLY different! For one, Maryland starts their standardized testing in middle
school so that student have more time and more chances to pass all of the tests.
They put every student through all the necessary test prep to give them the best
chances of passing. I am pretty sure too (but don't quote me on it) that
Maryland's laws make it so that you have to pass all of the tests to
graduate. So, kids actually care more about passing. If the tests don't
matter or if the test are supposed to be judging the teachers instead of the
students, they just won't care or try (I know I didn't!)
J.J. | 8:05 a.m. May 16, 2008
What provisions (if any) are going to be made for students with disabilities?
For instance: Are students with severe dyslexia going to be required to pass
the UBSCT reading tests with no accomodations? So far all students are able to
earn diploms even if they don't pass each section of the UBSCT. Now
Senator Stephenson is promoting a rule change that penalizes students for having
disabilities. Lawmakers need to address this issue before considering any
proposed action.
Arizona Mom | 8:39 a.m. May 16, 2008
In Arizona, we have the AIMS (Arizona's Instrument to Measure
Standards)program. Three of my kids passsed with flying colors, but #4 had to
re-take the writing portion. #4 never missed school and tried really hard. If
the requirements had not been lowered, he would not have graduated. He is not a
good test taker. However, he is doing well in college without the threat of an
exit exam.
I do not believe these exams are going to help any kid when they hit the "real world."
Good teachers who teach correctly can say that they "at least tried" to help whomever. Kids who can't read, etc. will only have themselves to blame and will struggle in the world.
Don't punish the kids. Some really do try, but may never pass any type of exit exam.
I do not believe these exams are going to help any kid when they hit the "real world."
Good teachers who teach correctly can say that they "at least tried" to help whomever. Kids who can't read, etc. will only have themselves to blame and will struggle in the world.
Don't punish the kids. Some really do try, but may never pass any type of exit exam.
Educrat | 9:06 a.m. May 16, 2008
I don't care for all the acronyms in education because it muddles up what
we are trying to do using concise instead of precise language.
Hopefully Stephenson is right, and we have fresh blood that care about education. He should be the first to 'retire' either by actually stepping aside or losing his next election.
The test lacks teeth. So do the CRTs. We need to make passing those tests mean something. A student who fails to meet the criteria should not advance to the next grade without summer school. A student who hasn't passed the 8th grade test (UBSCT) should also be attending summer school and helped towards graduation.
I also favor early graduation options which seem to be so difficult with how much the feds and state pile on with added requirements. The concurrent enrollment options help, but we really need some pro education legislators on board instead of the charlatans we have.
Hopefully Stephenson is right, and we have fresh blood that care about education. He should be the first to 'retire' either by actually stepping aside or losing his next election.
The test lacks teeth. So do the CRTs. We need to make passing those tests mean something. A student who fails to meet the criteria should not advance to the next grade without summer school. A student who hasn't passed the 8th grade test (UBSCT) should also be attending summer school and helped towards graduation.
I also favor early graduation options which seem to be so difficult with how much the feds and state pile on with added requirements. The concurrent enrollment options help, but we really need some pro education legislators on board instead of the charlatans we have.
Dave | 9:18 a.m. May 16, 2008
In Japan, you take a test and if you pass you are eligable to go to on to
college. If you score below whatever the number, you go to a trade school. Your
path is chosen for you although your free to do whatever you want in that
direction.
If these types of students don't care enough to finish their education, then help them chose a career path that focuses what they do.
I think the comment given about not being able to pay for college or get financial aid is really the least of conern for someone who doesn't care too much about what they do.
If these types of students don't care enough to finish their education, then help them chose a career path that focuses what they do.
I think the comment given about not being able to pay for college or get financial aid is really the least of conern for someone who doesn't care too much about what they do.
up | 9:47 a.m. May 16, 2008
The students are well aware that they don't actually have to pass this test
to get a diploma. It means nothing.
Doodles | 9:58 a.m. May 16, 2008
Save the 1.7 million a year and require every student receiving a high school
diploma to pass the ACT Test, at their own expense, with a 20 or higher to
receive a high school diploma. The school will not need to design, administer,
or correct the tests. The students will be vested as they pay the $30 or so to
take the ACT. There are plenty of ACT prep books and classes to assist the
students who have a stake in learning enough to read, write and figure well
enough to pass junior high school classes. The ACT is administered a half dozen
times a year all ready.
The responsibility for achieving in school is NOT reasonably shouldered by the state, district, principal, or teacher. When it really comes down to the bottom line, the student must take responsibility for their own education. This alternative would require them to do so. How long are we going to accept the substandard performance of teenagers so they will not have to face the consequences of their educational choices?
The responsibility for achieving in school is NOT reasonably shouldered by the state, district, principal, or teacher. When it really comes down to the bottom line, the student must take responsibility for their own education. This alternative would require them to do so. How long are we going to accept the substandard performance of teenagers so they will not have to face the consequences of their educational choices?
Unreal | 10:02 a.m. May 16, 2008
"High Stakes Test!" Get real. There is no high stakes when the
student has half a dozen chances to come in at 80%.
Anonymous | 10:05 a.m. May 16, 2008
If you cannt pass the test tkae your consequences. No diploma annd bad jobs.
John Reynolds | 10:07 a.m. May 16, 2008
There are horror stories out there about how students get passed from grade to
grade without having met requirements. This has been going going on for years.
Now this ! What should a high school diploma mean ?! If they can't
perform, they must do summer school until they quality !
Cat | 10:15 a.m. May 16, 2008
I agree with J. J. whole-heartedly. I struggled through high school with an
undiagnosed learning disability. A few years after graduation, I decided to go
to college and finally found my niche in education. I recently graduated with a
Master's Degree. The state needs to make sure its not closing doors for
intelligent kids with learning disabilities. They need help, not more barriers.
Re for J.J. at 8:05 | 10:34 a.m. May 16, 2008
You don't "earn" a diploma if you can not read. If you have a
disability that prohibits standard performance on a standardized test, you fail
the test. That is, you do not "earn" a high school diploma if you can
not "do" high school work.
Students with disabilities are not penalized for having disabilities. Their disabilities are recognized instead of pretending that they do not exist. Why should the state government certify that a student with disabilities really can do something that they really can't do? It would make the certification worthless and the state a fool.
Students with disabilities are not penalized for having disabilities. Their disabilities are recognized instead of pretending that they do not exist. Why should the state government certify that a student with disabilities really can do something that they really can't do? It would make the certification worthless and the state a fool.
Ridiculous | 10:42 a.m. May 16, 2008
For the disability dude:
The meaning of "disability" is "unable" or "not able".
By "accomodation" do you mean "dumbing down" the reading requirement so that students with disabilities will be able to pass, as if there was no disability? What's the sense of that?
The meaning of "disability" is "unable" or "not able".
By "accomodation" do you mean "dumbing down" the reading requirement so that students with disabilities will be able to pass, as if there was no disability? What's the sense of that?
Proud Mary | 10:53 a.m. May 16, 2008
Nothing and I mean nothing in education has any teeth. Try disciplining a
student, administrators want to know what teachers are doing wrong. Throw forty
plus kids in a class and see how the average person fairs on a daily basis. The
entire education system is fundamentaly broken. Teachers say they need more
pay...they need more support and rules that are put on paper need to be upheld.
America is falling behind, they recently pulled out of the world championships
in mathematics. The reason, they felt they could no longer compete. You see the
animals are running the zoo!!! There is a reason they cannot find and retain
quality educators.
RCS | 11:43 a.m. May 16, 2008
I'm tired of the dumbing-down of America and our Utah students in
particular. Think of it: can't write (filling out an application) and yet
can get a High School Diploma that symbolizes (falsely) that the student is
competent in AT LEAST basic educational skills? What a farce. If I were an
educator, I'd be embarrassed to the teeth. (Here's a test: which words
in this comment are misspelled? And how could you tell if you had a diploma, but
couldn't look up the words in a dictionary??)
Howard as the head educator | 12:17 p.m. May 16, 2008
Why doesn't Howard just give up his Senate post and become the State
Superintendent of Schools? That's what he wants to be. Let's pay him
to do the job so he actually has an office in the department rather than having
to run the show from his Senate seat.
Carol | 12:33 p.m. May 16, 2008
The Legislature has had two legislative sessions to pass legislation that would
demand that students pass the UBSCT or receive no diploma. At this point, the
law is clear; the State Board can allow for students who do not pass the UBSCT
to receive a diploma that states--on its face--that student did NOT pass the
UBSCT. The Legislature can deny diplomas to students who do not pass UBSCT--it
is a matter of amassing 15 votes in the Senate and 38 votes in the House. To
this point, there has not been a bill that has gathered that support. Somehow,
the Governor's Office and parents prefer that students earn a diploma to:
(1) receive post-secondary financial aid, (2) join the military and/or (3)
maintain Utah's exemplary high school graduation rate.
10:07 a.m. | 12:41 p.m. May 16, 2008
They won't hold a child back. Even when the parent request this to be
done. It might hurt them psychologically or cause a stigma. Like this
won't happen when they don't get a diploma for graduating.
I have a daughter who probably won't pass the test. Not because she doesn't have the skills, but because she can't stay focused long enough to finish tests.
If they allowed her to listen to music she can stay focused, but she isn't allowed to have an mp3 player at school. The kids can have cell phones and exchange pictures of their genitals with each other, but a child that can't stay focused can't listen to music.
My daughter is brilliant. She reads and comprehends on a college level. But because I refuse to put her on medication she most likely won't graduate from high school with a diploma if she has to pass this test in a time limit.
By the way, Rediculous at 10:42a.m. - it isn't a matter of "dumbing" it down. Tell me a work place that doesn't have some sort of music playing. She knows the stuff, just can't finish the test.
I have a daughter who probably won't pass the test. Not because she doesn't have the skills, but because she can't stay focused long enough to finish tests.
If they allowed her to listen to music she can stay focused, but she isn't allowed to have an mp3 player at school. The kids can have cell phones and exchange pictures of their genitals with each other, but a child that can't stay focused can't listen to music.
My daughter is brilliant. She reads and comprehends on a college level. But because I refuse to put her on medication she most likely won't graduate from high school with a diploma if she has to pass this test in a time limit.
By the way, Rediculous at 10:42a.m. - it isn't a matter of "dumbing" it down. Tell me a work place that doesn't have some sort of music playing. She knows the stuff, just can't finish the test.
Elitist | 1:31 p.m. May 16, 2008
Remember, even though it is your taxes that pay for it and your children going
through the process. to Howard Stephenson they are a commodity and the school
system is at the beck and call of the business community, not even the colleges,
parents, or students take precedent over his shortsighted ideals of making
preprogrammed robots for local business. Their's (and most specifaccly his)
is the only voice that matters in education.
Mr Stephenson is an elitist snob who is trying to force your education system into an assembly line for low cost workers for his and others like him businesses. After all even though we have testing already from elementary school on as well as the added testign of NCLB. he wants this one for the sole purpose of making him some nice robots. I have reviewed the test and know for a fact that there are a multitude of questions that are not about basic competency in things like the three R's.
Mr Stephenson is an elitist snob who is trying to force your education system into an assembly line for low cost workers for his and others like him businesses. After all even though we have testing already from elementary school on as well as the added testign of NCLB. he wants this one for the sole purpose of making him some nice robots. I have reviewed the test and know for a fact that there are a multitude of questions that are not about basic competency in things like the three R's.
To Howard as Head Educator | 2:07 p.m. May 16, 2008
The problem with that plan is that Howard likely couldn't pass the
"test" to get the job. That's why he likes to bully from the
sidelines.
Rodney | 2:32 p.m. May 16, 2008
The article doesn't mention that in several states where students were
denied diplomas for not passing a state-mandated test, parents sued. The parents
successfully argued in those cases that the state did not provide adequate
resources to prepare students for the test.
In the state that spends the lowest amount per pupil, I would think the case would be a slam dunk in favor of the students denied a diploma. In Florida's case it led to a mandated class-size reduction and huge tax increases. I'm sure Mr. Stephenson and his Taxpayers Assn. cadre would LOVE that.
In the state that spends the lowest amount per pupil, I would think the case would be a slam dunk in favor of the students denied a diploma. In Florida's case it led to a mandated class-size reduction and huge tax increases. I'm sure Mr. Stephenson and his Taxpayers Assn. cadre would LOVE that.
Science Teacher | 3:03 p.m. May 16, 2008
I don't know where I stand on this issue.
A good percentage of students that fail the UBSCT do so because they have low IQs. Simple. Others, simply because English is difficult for them.
Standards must be met, but does denying all their credit based on one test fair?
Tough.
A good percentage of students that fail the UBSCT do so because they have low IQs. Simple. Others, simply because English is difficult for them.
Standards must be met, but does denying all their credit based on one test fair?
Tough.
Stewart | 3:37 p.m. May 16, 2008
right the test doesn't have the teeth than many wish it had. On the other
hand if passing is required to graduate, then those not passing may as well quit
and drop out. There are some that couldn't pass ever, even if their life
depended on it. There are many in the legislature like Stephensen who think that
you can educate students with threats, and teachers as well. Some of the ones
that need an education are in the legislature. This however doesn't mean
that we can't improve the system.
Truth teller | 6:16 p.m. May 16, 2008
You can bet that anything that Howard Stephenson backs will not have
students' best interest in mind. Howard has as his only goal to make it so
hard for public education to succeed that he and his friends can step in and get
more students into their private schools at taxpayer expense. Think not? Just
wait until the voucher bill gets resurrected . . . .
an educator | 12:25 a.m. May 17, 2008
It's a difficult dilemma. We have some students who do not have interest
in academics and would be much better served learning a trade. The dilemma is
how to keep this separation from becoming a social class issue and how to
prevent unhappy parents from circumventing the procedure.
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Sure Jonny will feel bad if he doesn't get a diploma, however, the good that Jonny will feel if he works hard and achieves way out weighs any negative.