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LDS Church expresses disappointment in California gay marriage decision
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Bensonally | 8:49 a.m. May 16, 2008
Chris Plummer, the church has the right and obligation to educate and seek to
influence its members and others on moral issues. That is the purpose of the
statement.
In society this is protected free speech. We all have it.
Whether members follow church positions when they vote or in how they live their lives is an individual matter.
If a member does not understand or agree with a church position, there is typically no consequence to membership. However, if the individual engages in behavior contrary to the church's beliefs and teachings, the church can take action touching the individual's membership, including restricting or even terminating membership, but the individual at all times retains moral agency to live their lives as they see fit, perhaps just not as a member with attendant rights of membership.
In society this is protected free speech. We all have it.
Whether members follow church positions when they vote or in how they live their lives is an individual matter.
If a member does not understand or agree with a church position, there is typically no consequence to membership. However, if the individual engages in behavior contrary to the church's beliefs and teachings, the church can take action touching the individual's membership, including restricting or even terminating membership, but the individual at all times retains moral agency to live their lives as they see fit, perhaps just not as a member with attendant rights of membership.
Wen | 8:56 a.m. May 16, 2008
It is a scary place where THE PEOPLE vote and THE JUDGES overrule the
people's voice. How arrogant to have seven judges legislating against the
vast majority of people. I don't care what your orientation is
religiously, politically, sexually or otherwise. It is an unsafe place where
your vote means nothing at all because seven arrogant people will always
"correct" your "flawed" choice. We are living in an era
where the majority still know right from wrong, but the judges are burdening us.
Comments continue below
To I appreciate | 9:02 a.m. May 16, 2008
I don't understand your logic. You say, "No one can name one good
thing that has come out of people living a life of homosexuality." I would
say that many good things are possible in a homosexual "marriage"--
things like love, commitment, mutual support and companionship--things that also
come from heterosexual marriages.
Not all heterosexual couples produce children, some are older, some adopt, some choose not to have children. Why deny people you care about the same opportunities that are available to you?
If you truly value marriage wouldn't you want it for other people who are important to you? Wouldn't you PREFER it for others who are gay?
Not all heterosexual couples produce children, some are older, some adopt, some choose not to have children. Why deny people you care about the same opportunities that are available to you?
If you truly value marriage wouldn't you want it for other people who are important to you? Wouldn't you PREFER it for others who are gay?
Non=believer | 9:01 a.m. May 16, 2008
Churches need to get out of the bedroom and that includes the LDS chuch. Leave
God out of it. He loves everyone EQUALLY. If he doesn't judge why are you.
The court is the great mediator???? Where have you been. The courts have been
part of the problem.
sfc ret dennis | 9:16 a.m. May 16, 2008
To Hmmmm: The LDS Church pays taxes any way, even thou thay don't have to
they do any way.
Dave Go. | 9:19 a.m. May 16, 2008
This is just another example of liberal judges making law. The voters, the
people, voted in 2000 as to what they would recognize as marriage. That is what
this country is founded on, the voice of the people. Now 8 years later judges
are determining what is law regardless of what the people have said. This is all
backwards.
Anonymous | 9:28 a.m. May 16, 2008
In the last days, this was told to us all this would happen.I wish nothing but
love on all man kind. I feel bad that I with love and the LDS church who does
more good than anu other church on the planet, is not allowed to have freedom to
mouth what we believe. How many nonprofit tax exempt gay prganizations can say
what they want without fear of loosing their status. Freedom of speach works for
me, you, the LDS church, and all gay organizations. Each one of us must have
this respect for free speach. I have no hate for gay men or women. I can
disagree with them and still love and respect them, and I do. But it breaks my
heart when people rip on me and my church for saying for saying how we feel.
Free speach belongs to you and me.
Raymond Takashi Swenson | 9:30 a.m. May 16, 2008
The decision of the California Supreme Court was 4 to 3. The two dissenting
opinions pointed out that the majority created a right to gay marriage and stuck
it into the California constitution, acting outside their authority. The
minority pointed out that the logic of the majority would also require
recognition of polygamous and incestuous marriages between adults.
If California does not have the kind of law Massachusetts does that prevents out of state residents from going there for the sole purpose of marriage, there will be gay and lesbian people in other states who will get married in California and then go to court in Utah and all other states to force the states to recognize their marriages as legal under the "full faith and credit" clause of the US Constitution. The CA Supreme Court has unleashed a storm of litigation that will not end until a Federal constitutional amendment is passed to ensure that states can control the definition of marriage and not have California legislate for the nation. This can win the election for Republicans.
In California, you can bet that churches that do not support or accept gay marriage will be punished for discrimination through taxation.
If California does not have the kind of law Massachusetts does that prevents out of state residents from going there for the sole purpose of marriage, there will be gay and lesbian people in other states who will get married in California and then go to court in Utah and all other states to force the states to recognize their marriages as legal under the "full faith and credit" clause of the US Constitution. The CA Supreme Court has unleashed a storm of litigation that will not end until a Federal constitutional amendment is passed to ensure that states can control the definition of marriage and not have California legislate for the nation. This can win the election for Republicans.
In California, you can bet that churches that do not support or accept gay marriage will be punished for discrimination through taxation.
MattC | 9:29 a.m. May 16, 2008
If you know anything about the LDS church, you know that the doctrines are based
on two things- the holy scriptures and modern revelation. The scriptures are
VERY clear (especially the Bible) that this IS a moral issue- that same-sex
attraction is wrong when acted upon. This is not someone's interpretation,
this is GOD'S STANCE on the issue. In no case is that practice deemed
acceptable in the scriptures. So the question as to whether this is right or not
is based on whether you believe in the scriptures, and if you are going to join
the LDS faith whether you believe the modern revelation coming through prophets
which also says the same thing.
Why can't the LDS church stand up for its beliefs or it's bigotry, but those opposed to their views can and it's freedom of speech?
BTW, why no venom against the Catholic church? Interesting that no one is railing on them for saying basically the same thing. If you are going to complain about the LDS church being full of hate, figure out why every time something like this comes up, you can't restrain yourself from making hateful comments about the LDS church.
Why can't the LDS church stand up for its beliefs or it's bigotry, but those opposed to their views can and it's freedom of speech?
BTW, why no venom against the Catholic church? Interesting that no one is railing on them for saying basically the same thing. If you are going to complain about the LDS church being full of hate, figure out why every time something like this comes up, you can't restrain yourself from making hateful comments about the LDS church.
YBU | 9:31 a.m. May 16, 2008
Actually, God (if there is one) made Adam and Steve and Eve and you and me...
These are the same arguments that were made regarding inter-racial marriage. Once again, trying to legislate YOUR morality on everyone.
Actually, your morality has more to do with the sexual act that you deem to be a sin...not two people living together and caring for (loving) each other, even if they are the same sex.
Your legislating "NO MARRIAGE" will not stop those who actually are loving gay couples from expressing that love to each other.
It merely says, "I am better than you are and can have the governments blessings on my partner and me and you can't because I believe that you sin."
These are the same arguments that were made regarding inter-racial marriage. Once again, trying to legislate YOUR morality on everyone.
Actually, your morality has more to do with the sexual act that you deem to be a sin...not two people living together and caring for (loving) each other, even if they are the same sex.
Your legislating "NO MARRIAGE" will not stop those who actually are loving gay couples from expressing that love to each other.
It merely says, "I am better than you are and can have the governments blessings on my partner and me and you can't because I believe that you sin."
Response to M&M | 9:33 a.m. May 16, 2008
What you call 19th century morals, I call consistancy and dedication. Unlike
many, that refuse to take responsibility for thier actions, or simply allow
themselves to be blown about with every wind of change, it is not easy to come
out and stay dedicated to what is right. Your views are what many feel are wrong
with the world today. We are so concerned with being "politically
correct" that we forget to stand up for what is right and moral. California
judges have done the "politically correct" thing, not the right thing
in sustaining the voice of the people.
ron | 9:35 a.m. May 16, 2008
OK, here's the deal. If you believe that marriage is between a man and a
woman, then marry either a man or a woman. No one has a gun to your head to
marry someone.
If your son or daughter differs, and believes that marriage is between two human being, people, and then marries someone, so be it? Logical.
When religion got into the bedroom, it just messed things up. We used to have other laws too that just made society a bunch of hypocrites.
We are not far from that today are we.
If your son or daughter differs, and believes that marriage is between two human being, people, and then marries someone, so be it? Logical.
When religion got into the bedroom, it just messed things up. We used to have other laws too that just made society a bunch of hypocrites.
We are not far from that today are we.
Re: My name is Curly | 9:38 a.m. May 16, 2008
The LDS church does spend money taking care of the poor and needy all over the
world. Ever heard of Welfare Square, for one? The Church does more than
you'll ever know. Why don't you do some research before you slander
things you know nothing about.
Carl | 9:42 a.m. May 16, 2008
I am siding with God on this one. He set the rules and for those that do not
abide by them, he sets the penalty. Of course, all of us are free to choose,
but we may not like the consequences. I fear that his supportive hand is being
removed from this nation. We are sliding toward oblivion. Of course, he says
also that the righteous need not fear. As for me and my house, we will serve
THE LORD.
Public Discourse | 9:52 a.m. May 16, 2008
In 1998, the LDS church donated $1.1 million in support of proposed
constitutional amendments in Alaska and Hawaii ect� the
list goes on and on. The LDs church is asking their members to support the
current amendment drive through donating their time and money. I really do not
care that the LDS church gets involved in these issues, my problem is with the
blatant deceit that they and their members spread that they do not engage in
these practices. they run for cover under the false blanket of neutrality when
their views are challenged in the forum of public discourse. Get involved in the
public discourse but don�t hide under your deceit of
neutrality when the heat is on. You also cannot claim people are playing unfair
when the question your beliefs since it is at the center of your argument
against these issues. Public discourse is messy but better then the alternative
which will only lead to severe reactions from those that feel they are being
oppressed, which is also why I think it is alright for the LDS church to be
included in public discourse. And yes this is coming from a
�liberal.�
Dave | 10:07 a.m. May 16, 2008
I don't believe that people are born gay, any more than I believe people
are born the wrong gender.
We have to stop thinking that a third party other than God is doing the "marrying".
Marriage is a phenomenon of nature, and a person's right to marry is a direct result of his/her difference in gender with the other human being. By marrying, we form the complete nature of the human species. The two genders form the complete image and likeness of God.
�And that he created man, male and female, after his own image and in his own likeness, created he them;"
Essentially, the power to mate is the power to marry. The power to marry comes from the difference in gender. The right to marry does not come from a decision to love someone of the same gender. The state, therefore, does not have the power to empower two gay people to marry because two gay people do not have the power to mate, and when you do not have the power to mate, you do not have the power to marry.
Even God Himself cannot join two gay people in marriage.
We have to stop thinking that a third party other than God is doing the "marrying".
Marriage is a phenomenon of nature, and a person's right to marry is a direct result of his/her difference in gender with the other human being. By marrying, we form the complete nature of the human species. The two genders form the complete image and likeness of God.
�And that he created man, male and female, after his own image and in his own likeness, created he them;"
Essentially, the power to mate is the power to marry. The power to marry comes from the difference in gender. The right to marry does not come from a decision to love someone of the same gender. The state, therefore, does not have the power to empower two gay people to marry because two gay people do not have the power to mate, and when you do not have the power to mate, you do not have the power to marry.
Even God Himself cannot join two gay people in marriage.
M Evans | 10:07 a.m. May 16, 2008
So long as the government does not force churches to perform same sex marriages
then I do not understand all the fuss and opposition. Canada has not fallen off
the planet because of same sex marriage and neither has any other place that has
them. Heterosexual marriage is no shining example given the high rates of
divorce including Mormons with "Temple
Divorces," once rare and now common.
Divorces," once rare and now common.
The Lone Ranger | 10:09 a.m. May 16, 2008
To "One Step Closer" who said "Today the American People took one
step closer to being swept off this choice land": The American People had
nothing to do with it. IN FACT the people of California voted in an
overwhelming majority to keep marriage between a man and a woman....it was the
CA Supreme Court that took the step closer.
Todd | 10:10 a.m. May 16, 2008
Sodom and Gamoraha. The ends coming, and in the scriptures it says being gay is
not good.
Creation Indeed | 10:14 a.m. May 16, 2008
God did create this world and is the father of our spirits. As part of his
marvelous Plan, he enabled but Did Not create our bodies, which are the product
of physical unions between two imperfect mortal people, a man and a woman.
As our Father, God expects us to reach, seek and overcome our inherent personal weaknesses, flaws and natural tendencies to do wrong which are part of the mortal experience and inherent in our mortal bodies. He wants us to ultimately become like Him. We all have a long way to go to reach His attainments.
Too many people seek an excuse not to deal with and overcome their challenges, in the case of one poster poster, "Actually", by claiming God created them.
That is like telling your dad you don't want to mow the lawn because you don't feel like it. Still needs to be done. The typical dad, correctly, is not going to agree that you have a right to go another direction because you feel so inclined. He has some work for you to do and it is in your best interest to do it without delay.
As our Father, God expects us to reach, seek and overcome our inherent personal weaknesses, flaws and natural tendencies to do wrong which are part of the mortal experience and inherent in our mortal bodies. He wants us to ultimately become like Him. We all have a long way to go to reach His attainments.
Too many people seek an excuse not to deal with and overcome their challenges, in the case of one poster poster, "Actually", by claiming God created them.
That is like telling your dad you don't want to mow the lawn because you don't feel like it. Still needs to be done. The typical dad, correctly, is not going to agree that you have a right to go another direction because you feel so inclined. He has some work for you to do and it is in your best interest to do it without delay.
Re: Considering... | 10:14 a.m. May 16, 2008
"Considering that people are born gay..."
People are not born gay; it's a choice.
Just because people can't rid themselves of a self-destructive behavior, doesn't mean they were born that way.
If people were born gay or straight, then in every single set of identical twins, both twins would be either gay or straight. That isn't the case.
The laws of nature give conclusive proof that humans are born heterosexual.
If every human on earth were suddenly made homosexual today, the human race would cease to exist as soon as the last currently living person died.
People are not born gay; it's a choice.
Just because people can't rid themselves of a self-destructive behavior, doesn't mean they were born that way.
If people were born gay or straight, then in every single set of identical twins, both twins would be either gay or straight. That isn't the case.
The laws of nature give conclusive proof that humans are born heterosexual.
If every human on earth were suddenly made homosexual today, the human race would cease to exist as soon as the last currently living person died.
disappointedCA | 10:20 a.m. May 16, 2008
If this ruling remains there's nothing to prevent brother-sister,
brother-brother, mother-son, man-child marriages. As Judge Robert Bork once
said "we're slouching towards Gomorrah." What liberals want is
morals without borders, which is really no morals and no rules.
born gay? | 10:19 a.m. May 16, 2008
No one is born gay. "I was born that way" is the most ridiculous and
farce statement to cover up a human beings sexual preference and life long
summation of incorrect choices. That is like saying a serial killer was born to
kill, or a child molester was born with an infatuation with little children. Gay
people can still be good individuals, but the power of procreation is a gift
from God and intended to be used to strengthen marriage and create children. It
is not to be used as a source of self indulgence. Homosexuality is WRONG and
that's final.
irony | 10:22 a.m. May 16, 2008
Remember the arguments by anti-marriage advocates that denying marriage rights
doesn't affect partner benefits. Unfortunately this was a lie. I
didn't see anyone complaining about activist judges last week when the
Michigan Supreme Court ruled that their anti-marriage law required that all
public universities in Michigan stop providing health insurance for domestic
partners. That's religion and the golden rule for you.
61% to 39% | 10:26 a.m. May 16, 2008
We believe in the will of the people? WARNING: Pay attention to what kind of
judges will be appointed by the people you elect this fall.
RR | 10:25 a.m. May 16, 2008
All the comments by members of the church are very scary. Clearly, you
haven't read what President Kimball said about this issue in the Miracle of
Forgiveness. Read the chapter "Crime Against Nature." The prophet
clearly spells out what a severe crime this is, and we should never accept it
because society is accepting it. The prophet is never popular because he says
things people don't like, even members. Prophets of God have condemned
this every generation. We as members, should never accept this way of
life....EVER!
I'm totally ashamed of members saying this is fine. Follow and trust the prophet..DO NOT FOLLOW SOCIETY.
We can still love people who are NOT born this way, but don't encourage the sin at all.
I'm totally ashamed of members saying this is fine. Follow and trust the prophet..DO NOT FOLLOW SOCIETY.
We can still love people who are NOT born this way, but don't encourage the sin at all.
Doucheku | 10:30 a.m. May 16, 2008
Anyone who lives by the religion of Jesus or God is uneducated and
delusional.
Religion gives no room for critical thinking nor does it allow one to ask questions. Your mind cannot grow without the ability to critically think and ask questions.
The term "Shepherd" in Western should be insulting! Cognitive reasoning frees you from the herd.
Religion gives no room for critical thinking nor does it allow one to ask questions. Your mind cannot grow without the ability to critically think and ask questions.
The term "Shepherd" in Western should be insulting! Cognitive reasoning frees you from the herd.
Michael | 10:36 a.m. May 16, 2008
The non-religious need to realize that ALL people, religious or not, have a
right to express their opinions in the public forum. EVERYONE subscribes to one
socioreligious philosophy or another. People who would stamp out voices that
bear a particular religious affiliation are DISCRIMINATORY BEYOND MEASURE!
Anonymous | 10:35 a.m. May 16, 2008
We need to make a distinction between the legal rights granted to contracting
parties under a "Civil Union", or some simular term by government, and
a "moral" approval granted by conservative religious bodies by
sanctioning a "marriage". Under the U.S. consititution all citizens
have the right to equal protection of the law, liberty and happiness. Passing
laws which limit inalienable rights based upon some secular view of morality is
wrong headed. Let states legalize unions between consenting adults if they
will, and also let the various churches respectively decide their moral
prerequisites for sanctioning a "marriage". In other words permit
marriage to be a regligiosly sanctioned compact, defined as a union between 2 or
more people of either sex depending upon the view of the religious body granting
the marriage, and let the state create civil unions as contracts between
consenting adults with clearly spelled out rights and obligations under a legal
contract. I don't think the law should require the Mormon Church to marry
homosexuals, but I also don't think that the Mormon Church should have the
right prevent same sex unions performed under color of state or federal law.
Lesbian's mother | 10:41 a.m. May 16, 2008
Maybe I'm biased--well, I know I am. But I will say to my dying day that
my daughter was not "born gay." I lived with her through her teenage
years and her attraction to young men. I attended her marriage (she was
pregnant, by the way). I saw her become a drug addict--who found a lesbian woman
who would supply her with meth. I saw her desert her two children and her
marriage. I saw her multiple relationships with other lesbian women.
Don't tell me this is a stable life-style, or that nobody was hurt.
I love her dearly, but I cannot support gay marriage as a morally correct choice. As my daughter says about her relationships, "Nothing lasts forever, Mom." Especially gay relationships!
I don't know what the answer is for gay couples--the realities of their situations can be heartbreaking. Their feelings are powerful and as children of God, they deserve our love and respect--but that does not mean that we who have genuine religious feelings on this issue should be forced to accept the gay agenda, which is less about "marriage" and more about forcing us to support economic issues and special protection under law.
I love her dearly, but I cannot support gay marriage as a morally correct choice. As my daughter says about her relationships, "Nothing lasts forever, Mom." Especially gay relationships!
I don't know what the answer is for gay couples--the realities of their situations can be heartbreaking. Their feelings are powerful and as children of God, they deserve our love and respect--but that does not mean that we who have genuine religious feelings on this issue should be forced to accept the gay agenda, which is less about "marriage" and more about forcing us to support economic issues and special protection under law.
Sarah | 10:41 a.m. May 16, 2008
I'm afraid many of you don't understand the motivations of those
opposed to this ruling. It's not about our wanting to persecute gays and
lesbians, and it's not about our desire to purposefully withhold any rights
from them. It's about standing up for the laws and commandments of our
Heavenly Father, and showing our support for Him and His teachings. When He has
said repeatedly, throughout all of history, that acting on homosexual thoughts
and feelings is a sin, then that's the way it is, regardless of whether or
not we understand all the reasons WHY it is. It would be AMAZING if the only
commandments we were required to follow were the ones that were easy for us to
keep, but that's not what's expected of us. What is exepected is that
we strive to follow ALL of the commandments - including the one that asks us to
love our God more than our fellow man. Usually, the commandment to love God
above all else and the commandment to love one another do not clash, but in this
case, people are forcing it to become that way. We're trying to stand up
for our beliefs, just like you are.
Watch it! | 10:43 a.m. May 16, 2008
We must stop tolerating godless practices. We've already invaded other
nations against the teachings of the Book of Mormon. We also ignore Captain
Moroni's righteous actions in killing people who didn't want to fight
to defend the country. Legal gay marriage might be what finally causes God to
wipe the wicked from off the earth! We need to repent, and fast.
$s for sense | 10:46 a.m. May 16, 2008
If the average cost of divorce is $30k, and the average homosexual relationship
last < one year, with roughly 12% of voters being homosexual, what % increase
in gross annual income will divorce lawyers make over last year?
Instead of taxing churches, I'm surprised liberals haven't thought of taxing divorce lawyers. Those of us who saw this coming knew ahead of time to go into divorce law. I gaurantee I will charge the same fees to everyone, and will not discriminate for gender orientation.
Instead of taxing churches, I'm surprised liberals haven't thought of taxing divorce lawyers. Those of us who saw this coming knew ahead of time to go into divorce law. I gaurantee I will charge the same fees to everyone, and will not discriminate for gender orientation.
Different spices | 10:57 a.m. May 16, 2008
So who cares?... My Bull-Dog is gay, and he goes after all the male dogs in my
neighborhood. It's only a natural thing for him. I don't have a
problem with the gay community, and neither does my Dog.
Procreation - seal of approval? | 11:02 a.m. May 16, 2008
"But if a man was supposed to be with another man or a woman with another
woman- how come they weren't bulit that way? They can not have children
either."
So what does this earlier comment say about heterosexual couples who can't procreate? Is there something "wrong" with them too? Surely we can't assume that the ability to have children is a seal of approval of a couple's relationship or a person's choice of lifestyle.
So what does this earlier comment say about heterosexual couples who can't procreate? Is there something "wrong" with them too? Surely we can't assume that the ability to have children is a seal of approval of a couple's relationship or a person's choice of lifestyle.
utahsteve | 11:05 a.m. May 16, 2008
RE: The comment of seperation of Church and State.
Seperation of Church and State means the State does not condone or favor ONE specific religion over a another. PERIOD Example: to run for President you must be a Baptist or Catholic. Sad but the Courts have 'made law' and warped this constitutional point to mean that it is illegal to disply the 10 commandments in a public place or sing Christmas songs in public schools.
Now if the Court said you must publicly profess a beleif in these same ten commandments in order to do perform 'legal' civic or business transaction... that would be a violation of the Chruch and State doctrine. Obvioulsy our society falls far short of such unreasonable demands. Yet there are the few that freak out. Now, aren't they special getting their way and overruling the majority? Sicko
Seperation of Church and State means the State does not condone or favor ONE specific religion over a another. PERIOD Example: to run for President you must be a Baptist or Catholic. Sad but the Courts have 'made law' and warped this constitutional point to mean that it is illegal to disply the 10 commandments in a public place or sing Christmas songs in public schools.
Now if the Court said you must publicly profess a beleif in these same ten commandments in order to do perform 'legal' civic or business transaction... that would be a violation of the Chruch and State doctrine. Obvioulsy our society falls far short of such unreasonable demands. Yet there are the few that freak out. Now, aren't they special getting their way and overruling the majority? Sicko
Barry | 11:09 a.m. May 16, 2008
"Different spices" a human being is not on the same level as your
bulldog.
Reality check | 11:16 a.m. May 16, 2008
Amen Dave!!! If Homosexuality was right and moral then homosexuals would be able
to procreate. I am saddened for all of those children who are placed into a
homosexual union home (unbeknowst to them) and get a warped sense of what
marriage really is. I have several homosexual friends, with children, mind you,
and I find it sad. Those children were robbed of the union of a Mother and a
Father, the way are bodies were created BY GOD to procreate. Once again, who do
the homosexuals believe created their bodies? If they believe it is God, then it
should be very clear to them that they are going against everything that God had
planned for our bodies. Any homosexual can do whatever he/she wishes, but just
as they are entitled to their "voice", SO ARE WE!!!!
douglas | 11:21 a.m. May 16, 2008
The Mormon Church does not get involved in politics, eh.
Oh please...........
Oh please...........
Re: Public Discourse | 11:24 a.m. May 16, 2008
Churches not only have a right, but a duty to speak out on moral issues and to
support legislation to protect moral values.
The LDS, however, does not support particular political candidates or parties. EVERY election season a letter from the First Presidency is read over the pulpit to LDS congregations across the country, urging them to get involved in the political process, to study the issues and candidates, and to vote according to their own personal convictions. NOT ONCE have I ever been told to vote for a particular political candidate or party.
The LDS, however, does not support particular political candidates or parties. EVERY election season a letter from the First Presidency is read over the pulpit to LDS congregations across the country, urging them to get involved in the political process, to study the issues and candidates, and to vote according to their own personal convictions. NOT ONCE have I ever been told to vote for a particular political candidate or party.
2 0f 6 | 11:26 a.m. May 16, 2008
If the anti-same sex crowd REALLY wanted to "protect" marriage, as
they say they do, then BAN divorce. I might then take them a little more
seriously.
The courts have overturned the will of the people of California by saying that it's unconstitutional to deny gay people the right to marry, and YOU say that the will of the people is MORE important than any court decision? Then tell me, if the will of the people wanted to bring back slavery, and even pass a constitutional amendment to do that, SHOULD WE JUST LET THAT HAPPEN? The courts exist to interpret and define the laws, so that just in case some law should be made that isn't consistent with the WHOLE law, things can be made right. Did you sleep thru your civics classes?
The courts have overturned the will of the people of California by saying that it's unconstitutional to deny gay people the right to marry, and YOU say that the will of the people is MORE important than any court decision? Then tell me, if the will of the people wanted to bring back slavery, and even pass a constitutional amendment to do that, SHOULD WE JUST LET THAT HAPPEN? The courts exist to interpret and define the laws, so that just in case some law should be made that isn't consistent with the WHOLE law, things can be made right. Did you sleep thru your civics classes?
Religious Bigotry Defined: | 11:29 a.m. May 16, 2008
"Anyone who lives by the religion of Jesus or God is uneducated and
delusional."
Thankfully for you, there is still time to change your view. How much time? God only knows.
Thankfully for you, there is still time to change your view. How much time? God only knows.
LDS Churches "statement" | 11:36 a.m. May 16, 2008
So the LDS Church cannot have a voice but all of you homosexuals (and
supporters) can? Hypocrisy?
Their statement was that they were "disappointed" in the Supreme Courts decision. Have you ever expressed that you were "disappointed" in anyone/anything. I'm pretty sure you anti LDS people have. Once again, HYPOCRISY!!!!!!
Their statement was that they were "disappointed" in the Supreme Courts decision. Have you ever expressed that you were "disappointed" in anyone/anything. I'm pretty sure you anti LDS people have. Once again, HYPOCRISY!!!!!!
Christian NOT Mormon | 11:37 a.m. May 16, 2008
Thanks be to God!
G | 11:42 a.m. May 16, 2008
"We believe in the will of the people? WARNING: Pay attention to what kind
of judges will be appointed by the people you elect this fall."
The United States is not and was never intended to be a "democracy". The reason for that is democracy is really nothing more than mob rule in the guise of the state.
Instead, voters select old and wise representatives to draft laws for them. In this case, like the judges of California, since, unfortunately, the republican system is degenerating into direct democracy and roles in different branches of the government are becoming muddled.
The United States is not and was never intended to be a "democracy". The reason for that is democracy is really nothing more than mob rule in the guise of the state.
Instead, voters select old and wise representatives to draft laws for them. In this case, like the judges of California, since, unfortunately, the republican system is degenerating into direct democracy and roles in different branches of the government are becoming muddled.
smart girl | 11:49 a.m. May 16, 2008
this comment is in response to Carl's (two comments up) He said "of,
course, all of us are free to choose, but we may not like the
consequences." Thats just it!!!! People in the gay community haven't
had choices!!! The state of California is granting them rights that should have
been theirs all along! NOW they are free to choose... anyone out there who
thinks that is terrible should just remember that LDS docterine says God put us
here with our free agency, now if only the goverment will catch up!
To: Berry | 11:50 a.m. May 16, 2008
Hey Berry, I think I can argue that...
I have known some humans that are very close in manner to our canine friends. Maybe dogs are of a different spices, but many humans have all the characteristics of a dog. People even treat their dogs like they were humans, dress them up, brush their hair, go for a trip to the dog parlor, sleep in the same bed with their humans, and have a T-bone steak now and then with their devoted owner. Sounds and looks Like dogs rule.
As far as gay people go, they are certainly a different spices of humankind. But who am I to condemn them? I will leave that entirely up to God to be their judge. It's not for me to judge them or anyone else.
I have known some humans that are very close in manner to our canine friends. Maybe dogs are of a different spices, but many humans have all the characteristics of a dog. People even treat their dogs like they were humans, dress them up, brush their hair, go for a trip to the dog parlor, sleep in the same bed with their humans, and have a T-bone steak now and then with their devoted owner. Sounds and looks Like dogs rule.
As far as gay people go, they are certainly a different spices of humankind. But who am I to condemn them? I will leave that entirely up to God to be their judge. It's not for me to judge them or anyone else.
RE: The count so far | 11:59 a.m. May 16, 2008
You said "The correct way to characterize this is that the voters tried to
override the State Constitution..." Well, we'll just have to change
the State Constitution then won't we! Can't wait until November!
Gay Love | 12:07 p.m. May 16, 2008
Who cares if gays get married? How does it affect LDS? We should encourage
long-term relationships of all kinds. Society benefits from stable family units,
gay straight or otherwise. If poligamists could exist without child brides and
"lost boys" I'd say legalize that too. As long as the
arrangement doesn't victimize anyone, live and let live.
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If the Lord's prophet and apostles feel strongly about something, I think that it would be in my best interest to listen.
I am grateful that there is an institution such as the church that is willing to give direction, regardless of how unpopular it may be. I live in an area where most people have no direction, and it's not good. I do care what the church says.