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Utah drivers cut gasoline use by 20% in a decade
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$ | 12:09 a.m. May 15, 2008
I'm definitely suffrin' at that pump. Is there any relief in sight for
one such as I? I'm concerned things might really get out of hand. I hope
UTA doesn't up their monthly pass rates.
Chris | 12:16 a.m. May 15, 2008
Sure, I thought our oil consumption was up? I thought that was the law of supply
and demand all these pundits seem to be trying to convince us of.
Local oil is selling $25-$40 below OPEC price yet Utah consumers still pay full price at the pump. We try to fool ourselves that we have ~10 cents a gallon lower price than the rest of the country. Yet never pointed out is that a good portion of that "rest of the country" has their lowest octane at 87 rather than our 85.
We are being fleeced and I am just so glad are Govenor is unwilling to do anything about it. He is too busy saving planet earth rather than holding local oil companies accountable for their greedy and illegal practices.
Local oil is selling $25-$40 below OPEC price yet Utah consumers still pay full price at the pump. We try to fool ourselves that we have ~10 cents a gallon lower price than the rest of the country. Yet never pointed out is that a good portion of that "rest of the country" has their lowest octane at 87 rather than our 85.
We are being fleeced and I am just so glad are Govenor is unwilling to do anything about it. He is too busy saving planet earth rather than holding local oil companies accountable for their greedy and illegal practices.
awesomeron | 1:56 a.m. May 15, 2008
I am living in a larger home then I really need and i can make a good profit on
my home, enough to pay it off and buy a house many places on the Mainland free
and clear. However I want to stay in Hawaii as long as possible an I can't
sell my house and buy another smaller one or a condo with out winding up with
around the same Mortgage. So I try to live in 20% less of the home. My light
bill is about $380 a month, and I don't have A/C. They just think up a
number and charge me. I have no defense against them as you can't get the
permits to go Generator Lighting or completely solar. So we are slaves in that
respect. So I always put a Smile Face in the O when I write the check to pay
HECO. The Water and Sewer Bill is high also but that has to do repairing the
infrastructure and I do not mind that. My Street and Neighborhood has new pipes,
so i don't mind that nearly as much. All and all I am grateful to have a
home, as many don't.
Comments continue below
mike | 7:01 a.m. May 15, 2008
$3.00 a gallon gasoline is here to stay. Consumption of Crude oil is down over
a million barrels a month in this country, oil refining production is down to
81% of capacity at the nations refineries. Reason given is that it costs too
much to refine the products we use everyday.
Actually, I think it's more an artificial shortage and speculation that keeps the costs of Crude Oil astronomicallly high.
I advocate the nationalization of all the oil and utility companies, government should just take them over sieze thier assets and reap the profits rather than allow private industry to do so, they could reduce taxes and still make billions off the consumers.
Actually, I think it's more an artificial shortage and speculation that keeps the costs of Crude Oil astronomicallly high.
I advocate the nationalization of all the oil and utility companies, government should just take them over sieze thier assets and reap the profits rather than allow private industry to do so, they could reduce taxes and still make billions off the consumers.
Reality Check | 7:27 a.m. May 15, 2008
We can cut our demand by 10-15 percent this year and our gas prices will still
not drop. The rest of the world is demanding more and more oil and will
continue to use up what we don't, so the oil companies will still continue
to keep prices up.
What really irritates me is when there is a jump in the price of oil our gas prices go up immmediately, but whent he price of oil drops we never see a drop in gas prices.
I view the oil execs with the same dishonest eye as I have always viewed the tobacco executives. Guys who have little if any morals and just love the big checks.
What really irritates me is when there is a jump in the price of oil our gas prices go up immmediately, but whent he price of oil drops we never see a drop in gas prices.
I view the oil execs with the same dishonest eye as I have always viewed the tobacco executives. Guys who have little if any morals and just love the big checks.
DBG | 8:17 a.m. May 15, 2008
This is flawed. It doesn't account for population explosion. If you are
going to tie it to population then you need to account for the growth. This
study didn't do such thing. If you really want to compare, then you have to
compare base usages from 10 years ago through today. That is the only real way
to measure consumption. But they threw in population and do you think the 8 kids
you pack around are not going to skew the data?
Seriously | 8:18 a.m. May 15, 2008
People PLEASE just do what you are doing. Cut back on driving, vacations, eating
out, movies, sports entertainment, and such activities. Spend more quality time
with friends and family. We can also modify our diets too-- do we really need
steak when cheaper cuts of beef, pork, chicken, and fish will do quite nicely? I
beleive we can all modify some and that will bring some change, along with
voting for the right people, alternative energy, and everything we can do to let
our politicians know we can all change--including changing our state and
national representation.
G | 8:42 a.m. May 15, 2008
"I advocate the nationalization of all the oil and utility companies,
government should just take them over sieze thier assets and reap the profits
rather than allow private industry to do so, they could reduce taxes and still
make billions off the consumers."
Why, because Communism worked out so well for Russia?
Why, because Communism worked out so well for Russia?
Joe Moe | 8:44 a.m. May 15, 2008
@Chris
The law of supply and demand for a GLOBAL commodity like oil does not care whether Utahns use less per capita than before. The WORLD is demanding more all the time. Do not hold your breath for prices to ever go down any significant amount.
@Mike
Don't ignore the law of unintended consequences. Government does very few things better than the private market. And if the gov't takes over the oil industry, what about all of our 401(k)s, stock investments, mutual funds, etc., which have significant holdings in the oil industry?
Do we really want bigger gov't? Do we really want to espouse a policy whereby any large, successful business venture is taken over by the gov't in order to "reap the profits"? You sound like Hugo Chavez!
Capitalism got this country to it's peak. Populism and socialism will just undermine us. It's all feel-good rhetoric, but crumbles in reality. Just look at the old USSR and current South America.
And no, I'm not one of the rich guys. Nor do I ever listen to "Rush O'Hannity," so I'll leave it to you to tell me if agrees with me or not.
The law of supply and demand for a GLOBAL commodity like oil does not care whether Utahns use less per capita than before. The WORLD is demanding more all the time. Do not hold your breath for prices to ever go down any significant amount.
@Mike
Don't ignore the law of unintended consequences. Government does very few things better than the private market. And if the gov't takes over the oil industry, what about all of our 401(k)s, stock investments, mutual funds, etc., which have significant holdings in the oil industry?
Do we really want bigger gov't? Do we really want to espouse a policy whereby any large, successful business venture is taken over by the gov't in order to "reap the profits"? You sound like Hugo Chavez!
Capitalism got this country to it's peak. Populism and socialism will just undermine us. It's all feel-good rhetoric, but crumbles in reality. Just look at the old USSR and current South America.
And no, I'm not one of the rich guys. Nor do I ever listen to "Rush O'Hannity," so I'll leave it to you to tell me if agrees with me or not.
SLC gal | 9:07 a.m. May 15, 2008
And how much could prices drop if we opened up our domestic sources????
Raymond Takashi Swenson | 9:10 a.m. May 15, 2008
If you think oil companies are making big profits, you should buy their stock
and get some of the return, alongside all the teacher and public employee
pension plans that are invested in those stocks. You should remember, though,
that every dollar of profit they make is also taxed as income by the Federal
government and by various state governments, so governments are getting a
"windfall" right along with the oil companies, and they didn't
have to invest any money to get it. The companies I personally resent are the
ones that have persuaded Congress to subsidize corn ethanol and protect it from
competition from cheaper imported sugar cane ethanol from Brazil. Corn ethanol
has low energy (low miles per gallon) and takes so much energy to make and
distribute that it actually increases greenhouse gas emissions, while it raises
the price of not only corn but also beef and other foods, including the many
that use corn syrup. This is a tax on Americans to make Archers Daniel Midlands
rich.
wrz | 9:14 a.m. May 15, 2008
We can cut gas consumption but it will not affect prices because supply is
controlled by OPEC, a foreign monopoly who has decided to drain the US of its
riches.
There is s slim chance we can forestall future increases by announcing massive drilling in ANWR and elsewhere,including the Gulf and east and west coasts. Will that ever happen? Don't hold your breath. Our elected representatives are not only in the hip pockets of the environmentalists but brain dead as well. God help us!
There is s slim chance we can forestall future increases by announcing massive drilling in ANWR and elsewhere,including the Gulf and east and west coasts. Will that ever happen? Don't hold your breath. Our elected representatives are not only in the hip pockets of the environmentalists but brain dead as well. God help us!
Samme | 9:38 a.m. May 15, 2008
I advocate the nationalization of all the oil and utility companies, government
should just take them over seize their assets and reap the profits rather than
allow private industry to do so, they could reduce taxes and still make billions
off the consumers."
You make a good point, Mike.
In the US economy, prices are kept in check largely due to competition; the watch word of free economic intercourse. There is no competition in oil production or other energy sources. OPEC largely controls oil resources, and thus crude prices. Nationalizing US oil sources might provide some relief through added competition. Unfortunately, at present we don't own enough resource to make much impact. Opening ANWR and other drilling sites in the US might make a difference... which is a long way off, if it ever happens.
You make a good point, Mike.
In the US economy, prices are kept in check largely due to competition; the watch word of free economic intercourse. There is no competition in oil production or other energy sources. OPEC largely controls oil resources, and thus crude prices. Nationalizing US oil sources might provide some relief through added competition. Unfortunately, at present we don't own enough resource to make much impact. Opening ANWR and other drilling sites in the US might make a difference... which is a long way off, if it ever happens.
TheTruth | 10:26 a.m. May 15, 2008
Joe Moe, are you actually peddling some sense? It seems like there aren't
many of you left in America.
Everyone likes to complain about the high prices of gasoline, then turn around and complain about the effects high consumption allegedly have on the environment. Look, the only way to lower consumption is raise prices. This will create innovation and individual preservation. It's a simple formula that has worked for centuries. Nothing else does. Especially more government.
Americans own the vast majority of our puny production. Are we all "oil executives"? The government gets the majority of oil profits already. If you tax them more then you will destroy 401k's. This will only put more pressure on social security and medicaid, which will put the pressure right back onto you. The only difference is the pressure will be 10X worse after your "windfall tax" than it is now at the pump.
Go work 2 extra hours a week if you cannot afford gasoline. Work one day of day labor on Saturday and you'll be fine.
But don't stop American innovation by demanding congress do something. You'll only hurt prosperity.
Everyone likes to complain about the high prices of gasoline, then turn around and complain about the effects high consumption allegedly have on the environment. Look, the only way to lower consumption is raise prices. This will create innovation and individual preservation. It's a simple formula that has worked for centuries. Nothing else does. Especially more government.
Americans own the vast majority of our puny production. Are we all "oil executives"? The government gets the majority of oil profits already. If you tax them more then you will destroy 401k's. This will only put more pressure on social security and medicaid, which will put the pressure right back onto you. The only difference is the pressure will be 10X worse after your "windfall tax" than it is now at the pump.
Go work 2 extra hours a week if you cannot afford gasoline. Work one day of day labor on Saturday and you'll be fine.
But don't stop American innovation by demanding congress do something. You'll only hurt prosperity.
wrz | 10:41 a.m. May 15, 2008
"And how much could prices drop if we opened up our domestic
sources????"
None. Oil is traded on the world market. It goes to the highest bidder. And there's an ever increasing demand which will continue to outstrip supply... which is largely controlled by OPEC. Get used to continued high prices for gas as well as other energy sources.
If we want reduced prices, take the stuff off the speculative commodity futures markets. Speculation is said to be about twenty bucks of the cost of a barrel.
None. Oil is traded on the world market. It goes to the highest bidder. And there's an ever increasing demand which will continue to outstrip supply... which is largely controlled by OPEC. Get used to continued high prices for gas as well as other energy sources.
If we want reduced prices, take the stuff off the speculative commodity futures markets. Speculation is said to be about twenty bucks of the cost of a barrel.
Not Going to Help | 11:45 a.m. May 15, 2008
Government run oil is worse than what Carter did, and that is saying something.
Worldwide demand will continue to surge. It doesn't look like we will have
the technology to deal with the increased demand in the short term. China and
India are trying to live like we do, heaven help us. The number of personally
owned cars in China will double or triple in the next decade.
Our government continues to spend money we don't have so the dollar will continue to slide, thus the price of oil will go up.
Demand will only go up, the dollar will slide for a long time. Opening up ANWR and drilling on our coasts is a drop in the bucket. Depending on who you talk to it would take 8-15 years for ANWR to start producing oil if they started developing it today.
Long story short, your kids won't believe you when you tell them about when gas was only $4/gallon.
Our government continues to spend money we don't have so the dollar will continue to slide, thus the price of oil will go up.
Demand will only go up, the dollar will slide for a long time. Opening up ANWR and drilling on our coasts is a drop in the bucket. Depending on who you talk to it would take 8-15 years for ANWR to start producing oil if they started developing it today.
Long story short, your kids won't believe you when you tell them about when gas was only $4/gallon.
ST. George | 12:16 p.m. May 15, 2008
End the OIL based Economy and set us free!
wrz | 12:46 p.m. May 15, 2008
"China and India are trying to live like we do, heaven help us. The number
of personally owned cars in China will double or triple in the next
decade."
China, India are taking much of our outsourced jobs. As a result, those people have more disposable income to buy cars, etc., bidding world oil demand and prices up.
"Opening up ANWR and drilling on our coasts is a drop in the bucket."
A drop here, a drop there... we need all the drops we can get.
"Depending on who you talk to it would take 8-15 years for ANWR to start producing oil if they started developing it today."
They could start drilling operations tomorrow if Congress would get off their lazy, unresponsive buttoxes and approve it.
"Long story short, your kids won't believe you when you tell them about when gas was only $4/gallon."
Hopefully they won't care... because they will be getting 200 Mi/gal on the car of the future. Hopefully.
China, India are taking much of our outsourced jobs. As a result, those people have more disposable income to buy cars, etc., bidding world oil demand and prices up.
"Opening up ANWR and drilling on our coasts is a drop in the bucket."
A drop here, a drop there... we need all the drops we can get.
"Depending on who you talk to it would take 8-15 years for ANWR to start producing oil if they started developing it today."
They could start drilling operations tomorrow if Congress would get off their lazy, unresponsive buttoxes and approve it.
"Long story short, your kids won't believe you when you tell them about when gas was only $4/gallon."
Hopefully they won't care... because they will be getting 200 Mi/gal on the car of the future. Hopefully.
I agree | 1:48 p.m. May 15, 2008
"Not Going to Help" is correct about ANWR taking 8-15 years to ship
its first barrel of oil, even if development started today. It isn't like
all of the infrastructure of an oil field is there ready to go and the Congress
and environmentalists told them to shut it down. Billions of dollars would have
to be spent to build the infrastructure needed. Add in that ANWR is at the top
of the world, so work would be extremely slow and there would be many months of
the year where no work could be done at all.
You are pinning your hopes in the wrong place if you think ANWR is going to help us in the next decade.
We could have the effect of 100 ANWRs if our government got its financial house in order and strengthened the US dollar.
You are pinning your hopes in the wrong place if you think ANWR is going to help us in the next decade.
We could have the effect of 100 ANWRs if our government got its financial house in order and strengthened the US dollar.
yes... | 2:26 p.m. May 15, 2008
...I use far less energy than I used to a decade ago. Actually a far greater
reduction than 20%.
� I now drive a 34mpg car instead of a truck that got about 14-15mpg.
� I changed jobs and now work virtual 3-4 days/week.
� I moved/built a very energy efficient home w/ energy star appliances, w/ a sized right 15+ SEER CAC & 95% efficient NG furnace, R45 insl, less but energy efficient glass with minimal south/west exposures and most all light fixtures are equipped with CFL's, some are on timers etc.
� I estimate my overall energy use was cut by 50% or more and all improvements will pay for themselves in a reasonable amount of time (or already have) and are readily available to all.
Instead of only complaining (which I also try and do by contributing from a basis of knowledge and by being constructive), I�m taking responsibility by trying to control outcomes instead of simply accepting the status quo.
Btw, electric rates for Utahn's have been flat for 20 years, gas rates have risen only by about 27%. In today's energy environment failing to reduce sends the wrong message, prices will rise just like gasoline.
� I now drive a 34mpg car instead of a truck that got about 14-15mpg.
� I changed jobs and now work virtual 3-4 days/week.
� I moved/built a very energy efficient home w/ energy star appliances, w/ a sized right 15+ SEER CAC & 95% efficient NG furnace, R45 insl, less but energy efficient glass with minimal south/west exposures and most all light fixtures are equipped with CFL's, some are on timers etc.
� I estimate my overall energy use was cut by 50% or more and all improvements will pay for themselves in a reasonable amount of time (or already have) and are readily available to all.
Instead of only complaining (which I also try and do by contributing from a basis of knowledge and by being constructive), I�m taking responsibility by trying to control outcomes instead of simply accepting the status quo.
Btw, electric rates for Utahn's have been flat for 20 years, gas rates have risen only by about 27%. In today's energy environment failing to reduce sends the wrong message, prices will rise just like gasoline.
Moved to Texas fast as I could | 1:21 p.m. May 16, 2008
Did your analysis take into account that wonderful light rail you put in for the
Olympics? I remember visiting dosntown SLC prior to light rail, then again a
few years after. Downtown parking went from $10.00/day to free. That had to be
due to fewer cars coming into downtown, and therefore less gas usage.
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