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Long litany of legal disputes begins in FLDS raid
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Monica | 5:08 p.m. May 14, 2008
Have you noticed that it is always and mostly men who post on these polygamy
columns? Have women been excluded for some reason from voicing their opinions?
Perhaps, because most women SHOUT over the subject of Polygamy! One last thing,
FLDS men need to repent and quit covering and using Heavenly Father for their
evil life style.
Jeff | 5:18 p.m. May 14, 2008
To: Wife #2
Freedom is a heavy burden, but many hands make light work.
Thanks for the help.
Freedom is a heavy burden, but many hands make light work.
Thanks for the help.
Comments continue below
to Monica; | 5:18 p.m. May 14, 2008
I am a woman and I proudly post my thoughts. We are NOT excluded from voicing
our opinions except maybe by the courts in Texas!
-Wife #2
-Wife #2
Casey | 5:36 p.m. May 14, 2008
If DCFS ever comes to take my son, after watching this fiasco, I will come out
shooting. I wonder how many others are thinking the same thing? I predict we
see a lot of problems derived from this single act of injustice.
BTW, for those who don't understand, this has nothing to do with men having sex with young girls. If it did, we would see evidence and arrests of men. I have seen none. When I do, I'll change my position.
BTW, for those who don't understand, this has nothing to do with men having sex with young girls. If it did, we would see evidence and arrests of men. I have seen none. When I do, I'll change my position.
crazy FLDS | 5:35 p.m. May 14, 2008
It's too bad that many posters (especially Anonymous) seem to think all is
well in the FLDS and they should be left alone. Well, that just makes you as
narrowsighted as the FLDS. Have you not yet concluded that the future of all
these children (and their children) is at stake here? If left in that compound,
these kids have NO FUTURE. Granted, they will be happy, since ignorance is
bliss, but some of them could do great things out in the world, and these
parents are STEALING THAT FROM THEM in the name of religion. Children should
have hopes and dreams. And the hopes and dreams shouldn't be "how
many children can I have" or "how many wives can I have".
You all need to give these kids a chance to fulfill their potential, and that won't happen behind 10 ft walls and a guardtower. The fact is, these parents are abusing these children EVERY DAY way worse than anything the CPS could do - it's just that the kids are happy with the FLDS abuse, because they don't know any better.
So if you care about rights, then care about the childrens rights, instead of the parents rights.
You all need to give these kids a chance to fulfill their potential, and that won't happen behind 10 ft walls and a guardtower. The fact is, these parents are abusing these children EVERY DAY way worse than anything the CPS could do - it's just that the kids are happy with the FLDS abuse, because they don't know any better.
So if you care about rights, then care about the childrens rights, instead of the parents rights.
G | 5:44 p.m. May 14, 2008
"eft in that compound, these kids have NO FUTURE. Granted, they will be
happy, since ignorance is bliss, but some of them could do great things out in
the world, and these parents are STEALING THAT FROM THEM in the name of
religion."
If you really believe that, I suppose you think we should launch raids on the Amish too. Hey, while we're at it let's send an expeditionary force into the Amazon basin, grab up the kids of the stone-age tribal peoples there and welcome them to the 21st century too. It'll be good training for the next "regime change".
I love American cultural bias.
If you really believe that, I suppose you think we should launch raids on the Amish too. Hey, while we're at it let's send an expeditionary force into the Amazon basin, grab up the kids of the stone-age tribal peoples there and welcome them to the 21st century too. It'll be good training for the next "regime change".
I love American cultural bias.
to casey | 5:53 p.m. May 14, 2008
you're right - this has nothing to do with men having sex with young girls.
This has to do with parents STEALING their children's futures and
enslaving them. What don't you get? Or do you think it's ok to
confine your children behind 10 ft walls and a guardtower, never to see outside
the gates, ever? If so, you don't deserve children.
BTW - if I thought that I could save your son from this mind-control and he could have a real future, I'd shoot it out with you in a heartbeat, so come out shooting, dude. A child's future is worth way more than mine, and I would gladly sacrifice myself to save your sone and these kids from the slavery the FLDS has in store for them.
BTW - if I thought that I could save your son from this mind-control and he could have a real future, I'd shoot it out with you in a heartbeat, so come out shooting, dude. A child's future is worth way more than mine, and I would gladly sacrifice myself to save your sone and these kids from the slavery the FLDS has in store for them.
to D | 6:04 p.m. May 14, 2008
Prayer is goor. Writing letters to local papers and the Governor is useful.
Someone posted some more practical ways to help. Something about the
captivefldschildren org and Donate page. Works great, takes you right to Paypal,
you specify the amount. Probably will not be tax-deductible, though...
PU-WEE! | 6:08 p.m. May 14, 2008
FLDS is not a religion. It is a sick cult filled with sex deviates. There is NO
religion involved for their practice. FLDS make up revelations from God to sound
good to the women and children, so that they can have their way with the ladies.
Now, Tell me, who would anyone go against "God" if they were raised to
believe that all these so called revelations for plural marriage came from God
almighty?--- TOO UNBELIEVABLE!!!! Too sad for the children.
God will one day avenge these FLDS men for using his name in VAIN.
God will one day avenge these FLDS men for using his name in VAIN.
to Casey | 6:12 p.m. May 14, 2008
if you shoot you will get Wacoed, along with your kids. The only good thing in
this is that the FLDS did not resist. Did you see the army that came in ?
There are better ways that shooting, and they help strengthen America. Help these people fight this battla the American way, in the court system. Go give them a few bucks for their legal defense fund. Perhaps if they win this big time you will not need to shoot. Check captivefldschildren dot org and look at pictures and video (look at that APC the good Sherriff rode, I thought Sheriffs rode horses), and then see if you are still convinced enough to Donate - they have a page for that and it works great. Sure you can make a difference, especially if you get a few friends involved. Money talks real loud, especially in quantity.
There are better ways that shooting, and they help strengthen America. Help these people fight this battla the American way, in the court system. Go give them a few bucks for their legal defense fund. Perhaps if they win this big time you will not need to shoot. Check captivefldschildren dot org and look at pictures and video (look at that APC the good Sherriff rode, I thought Sheriffs rode horses), and then see if you are still convinced enough to Donate - they have a page for that and it works great. Sure you can make a difference, especially if you get a few friends involved. Money talks real loud, especially in quantity.
Samme | 6:15 p.m. May 14, 2008
"FLDS members are NOT, I repeat NOT, MORMONS. They are not members of the
Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, anymore than Baptists are
Catholics!!!!"
They share much. Just as Catholics and Baptists share Christianity, so do LDS and FLDS share Mormonism. Both believe in the BofM, Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, John Taylor, the D&C (mostly), to name a few similarities. And they both embrace or embraced polygamy. It's easy to see how they could be lumped together.
Even though there are different Baptist Churches (i.e., Independent, Reformed, Missionary, Free Will, Fundamental, etc.) with somewhat different teachings each, we lump them together.
They share much. Just as Catholics and Baptists share Christianity, so do LDS and FLDS share Mormonism. Both believe in the BofM, Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, John Taylor, the D&C (mostly), to name a few similarities. And they both embrace or embraced polygamy. It's easy to see how they could be lumped together.
Even though there are different Baptist Churches (i.e., Independent, Reformed, Missionary, Free Will, Fundamental, etc.) with somewhat different teachings each, we lump them together.
Casey and others | 6:16 p.m. May 14, 2008
It is not my right to tell someone how to raise their children, and by what
standards they raise them. I don't agree with single mothers who
fashionalby get children by adoption, and then hire a nanny. I don't agree
with gays and lesbians adopting kids, or raising kids from hetro relationships.
But it is not mine or yours, to tell them how to raise their kids. Just as the
FLDS cannot and will not tell ME how to raise mine.
FYI. I'm female, LDS and the ONLY wife of my husband.
FYI. I'm female, LDS and the ONLY wife of my husband.
To G | 6:17 p.m. May 14, 2008
well, you've solidified my thoughts that there are some people that care
more about themselves than they care about their children, and you must be one
of them. And yes - if you can afford to help the amazon kids, then go for it.
But they live in the bush, not in the USA. They are not confined behind 10 ft
walls and a guardtower, nor are the Amish. What don't you get?
I don't know if CPS handled this right - it sure looks like they didn't, but someone had to get those kids out of there so they could have a future. Or is it your opinion that parents should be able to destroy their childrens future? If so, I feel sorry for your children.
I don't know if CPS handled this right - it sure looks like they didn't, but someone had to get those kids out of there so they could have a future. Or is it your opinion that parents should be able to destroy their childrens future? If so, I feel sorry for your children.
Anonymous | 6:21 p.m. May 14, 2008
It must be clear by now why disciples of Joseph Smith were run out of every town
they lived in.
No sister wife 4 me | 8:17 p.m. May 14, 2008
I can't believe the people who continue calling this religous persecution
and fail to see the problem with these young teenage girls being married to
thier much older uncle, cousin, grandfather, neighbor down the street and
producing one child after another. These girls know nothing else. Someone said
it earlier, after they have 2 or 3 kids, they are stuck. I believe that is just
how the men want it. Lets make more babies so uncle pervert can have more wives
in a few years. Oh yes and keep them away from mainstream life so they
don't know that young girls really don't marry dirty old men.
This abuse has been going on for years with the flds, Texas finally had the 6@!!$ to do something about it.
Im sure that most of you who think these kids should be returned, wouldn't send your young children there to spend the summer.
I bet if it were a skinhead compound you wouldn't be screaming religous persecution. After all skinheads feel they have religous rights also. But they can't use it to cause harm to others.
This abuse has been going on for years with the flds, Texas finally had the 6@!!$ to do something about it.
Im sure that most of you who think these kids should be returned, wouldn't send your young children there to spend the summer.
I bet if it were a skinhead compound you wouldn't be screaming religous persecution. After all skinheads feel they have religous rights also. But they can't use it to cause harm to others.
Zaun | 9:06 p.m. May 14, 2008
If the LDS church ever said we needed to live polygamy--me and my large family
would be instant nonmembers. We would never support the belief of plural
marriage. We as well, even though we are active now, in no way believe it ever
was any kind of revelation. Perhaps, Joseph was sized upon by the devil and was
confused for a time and made a mistake just like Warren Jeffs. I understand
those kind of things happened to him on occasion.
to: Anon Re: FLDS Legal Effort | 10:00 p.m. May 14, 2008
Go back and check the Bishops list, my friend, there are 16 year old
"wives" listed. Now who's post is suspect? Actually your morals
are suspect, in your pathetic attempts to defend this warped lifestyle.
child brides | 10:10 p.m. May 14, 2008
In the distant past, when life expectancies hovered near 40 at best, young
brides were commonplace. Now with opportunity for education and career
fulfillment it's a shame for a teenager to marry and have numerous
children. To teach these kids that the world is full of wicked horror and
isolate them is sad. We have one chance to live this life. It is a gift.
Sadly most of us live dull, repetitive existences. The possibilities are
infinite. The world is your oyster. Discover it. Then have children and teach
them to discover the wonders of the world.
Children | 11:45 p.m. May 14, 2008
I understand as a mother how it would feel to have my kids ripped from my arms.
However, if I were crazy enough to sit back and allow the marriage of my 14 year
old daughter to an older man i would deserve to have them taken away. It is
child rape for any man to have sex with a minor. It is sick and gross and I feel
for the children. I do not feel sorry for the parents they are old enough to
know right from wrong. Even if they are brain washed and in a cult. If it feels
wrong get away from it. Heavenly Father loves children why would he tell Jeffs
that it is ok to do this. No the FLDS parents are in the wrong Texas had every
right to get the children and keep them safe from this depraved cult. Someone
had to help them. Maybe things could have been done different, but it's
done now and all we should be thinking about are those children who are now
wards of the state and need to be loved and nurished by families with morales
and standards that are of the Lord.
Oh bother | 8:15 a.m. May 15, 2008
I hate to break this to you but a 16 year old that is married in the FLDS is not
a child. At my daughter's school there are plenty of 16 year old girls
that are also mothers, and occasionally they are married. According to the
law, they are not underage. So, set that argument aside already.
As for FLDS being mormons, yes they are as they also claim the Book of Mormon as their scripture. They are though, not members of the LDS church.
Zaun, you claimed that if the church allowed for polygamy again, you would leave. Pack your bags since you already have GA's that are spiritually married to more than one wife for time and all eternity. You might want to check the rules in Nigeria as well.
As for a guard tower, haven't the Tx authorities already proven that a necessity? It was a lesson learned at Short Creek. I am amazed with how many people have not done any real research (both sides) of the FLDS and how so many LDS don't actually know the truth about their own religion.
For this reason I bear my testimony of the truthfulness of non-religion.
As for FLDS being mormons, yes they are as they also claim the Book of Mormon as their scripture. They are though, not members of the LDS church.
Zaun, you claimed that if the church allowed for polygamy again, you would leave. Pack your bags since you already have GA's that are spiritually married to more than one wife for time and all eternity. You might want to check the rules in Nigeria as well.
As for a guard tower, haven't the Tx authorities already proven that a necessity? It was a lesson learned at Short Creek. I am amazed with how many people have not done any real research (both sides) of the FLDS and how so many LDS don't actually know the truth about their own religion.
For this reason I bear my testimony of the truthfulness of non-religion.
Hey Children | 8:18 a.m. May 15, 2008
If a 14 year old marrying is such a horror and child rape, why then have you
done nothing to demand that the many states that allow for such change their
laws? Why did you not demand such years ago? Why do you allow for female
genital mutilation as "cultural?" It seems only a horror because
it's the media's flavor of the day. Why is it that Karl Malone
impregnanted a 12/13 year old and the entire media in the U.S. remains silent?
Why have YOU don't nothing? Again, why have you done nothing?
Sharon | 9:20 a.m. May 15, 2008
To WIFE #2
Just curious if you were permitted to read all the posts on Deseret News message board since the begining? If you have, surely at least one post if not more has made you stop and think...has opened your eyes just a little bit. By no means...am I a saint, but I do know right from wrong..and what Jeffs and the ones before him have drilled in your heads...is WRONG !
Just curious if you were permitted to read all the posts on Deseret News message board since the begining? If you have, surely at least one post if not more has made you stop and think...has opened your eyes just a little bit. By no means...am I a saint, but I do know right from wrong..and what Jeffs and the ones before him have drilled in your heads...is WRONG !
Hey Sharon | 10:26 a.m. May 15, 2008
You state that what was "drilled in your heads....is WRONG!" to wife
#2. That is opinion. If you are Christian what was "drilled in your
heads....is WRONG!" The concept of trinity,"god in 3 persons blessed
trinity" is laughable. LDS pretend they don't believe in the Trinity
by using slightly different words that equals the same belief equally illogical
3=3, not 3=1.
You ridiculously believe that the FLDS post but aren't "allowed to read." I have seen comments that when someone posts pro-constitution you claim them as FLDS. I for one despise the belief system but also believe they should be allowed a fair legal battle unlike what seems to be occurring. You rant and rave regarding underage married, though no current information suggests such in fact quite the opposite. CPS claims adults as children despite proof of age issued by the state of TX. Yet, you ignore that. You rant about "lost boys." But no official has suggested any boys were "lost."
You are probably just another lds mormon that just has not resolved your own polygamist history and so would seek to destroy the evidence found among the FLDS.
Feminist for women's choice, even ones I don't agree.
You ridiculously believe that the FLDS post but aren't "allowed to read." I have seen comments that when someone posts pro-constitution you claim them as FLDS. I for one despise the belief system but also believe they should be allowed a fair legal battle unlike what seems to be occurring. You rant and rave regarding underage married, though no current information suggests such in fact quite the opposite. CPS claims adults as children despite proof of age issued by the state of TX. Yet, you ignore that. You rant about "lost boys." But no official has suggested any boys were "lost."
You are probably just another lds mormon that just has not resolved your own polygamist history and so would seek to destroy the evidence found among the FLDS.
Feminist for women's choice, even ones I don't agree.
Children | 12:58 p.m. May 15, 2008
By the way. This stuff is just as wrong as a teacher, family member, pervert or
whatever have sex with a minor. Get it through your heads....wrong is
wrong.....would you do this to your own child? If you loved them you
wouldn't. IMO. They claim they love them yet they brain wash them into this
type of life style. The harm of children just needs to stop. Abuse in any form
is wrong. I look at the picture of this family and think what has possesed you
to harm such sweet little ones. All I see is people blaming the state of Texas
and the CPS people. Take a real good look at the ones who are doing the harm. My
view is my view and yours is yours. I state it again abuse in any form is wrong
whether it be polygamy or main stream america. We all can agree to disagree
thats fine, but be honest with yourself. Take a good look at your child if you
have one and ask yourself if you could live with it.
G | 2:34 p.m. May 15, 2008
"Or is it your opinion that parents should be able to destroy their childrens future?"
It's not illegal to teach your faith to your children. There is no law stating that parents must send "children" (adults by that point) to college. In fact, children can drop out of high school. That isn't illegal either. You can even, shockingly, home-school children.
What part of "not illegal" are you having problems with? Just because somebody else does not raise children like a suburbanite soccer mom does not equate to child abuse.
Hey, maybe you should run for some state legislature so you can write laws imposing your opinion on everyone else. But until then, raising kids in a closed society is not illegal.
to G | 9:07 p.m. May 15, 2008
that's the problem, G. You want a closed society. It may not be illegal
to raise children in a closed society, but it's certainly wrong - and thats
not an opinion, thats a fact. All children would benefit from an open society,
so they can form their own opinions. Don't forget, Afganistan is a closed
society and they're not doing so well....
What don't you get? (And I know, it messes up your whole "men are superior" thing, but you'll survive.)
What don't you get? (And I know, it messes up your whole "men are superior" thing, but you'll survive.)
To G | 8:10 a.m. May 16, 2008
In a "perfect world" a closed society would seem reasonable. But we
don't live that way. We all make mistakes and hopefully, we learn from
those mistakes. We all have choices, or we're supposed to anyway. What
the FLDS are doing is restricting how people think, dress, function...All things
that the rest of us take for granted. Open up the gates and let your people see
beyond the fences. If they choose to live their lives in other ways, then it is
their choice. If they choose to stay on the ranch, that is also their choice.
But let them decide for themselves.
Outraged Baptist | 8:32 a.m. May 16, 2008
If this country really cared about underage sex, then they wouldn't
encourage it in the schools via 'sex-ed'(promiscuity
indoctrination.)
People have the right to form communities/live nearby of like minded individuals to raise their children in what they consider a healthy environment. If an individual in that community breaks the law, they should be punished. Not all the members of the community in general.
Look, I certainly don't support the FLDS religion, (and I'm no part of the regular LDS) but I'd rather them raise their own kids in their weird way as long as they aren't breaking the law then the jack booted thugs of Texas whose CPS system is a disaster.
In this day and age mainstream society with it's elevation of Hilton, Lohan and Spears is mostly caustic to developing young, moral, Godfearing minds. And we are flushing the Constitution down the toilet to boot.
People have the right to form communities/live nearby of like minded individuals to raise their children in what they consider a healthy environment. If an individual in that community breaks the law, they should be punished. Not all the members of the community in general.
Look, I certainly don't support the FLDS religion, (and I'm no part of the regular LDS) but I'd rather them raise their own kids in their weird way as long as they aren't breaking the law then the jack booted thugs of Texas whose CPS system is a disaster.
In this day and age mainstream society with it's elevation of Hilton, Lohan and Spears is mostly caustic to developing young, moral, Godfearing minds. And we are flushing the Constitution down the toilet to boot.
Anonymous | 9:11 a.m. May 16, 2008
The picture showing the family for this article does not represent an old man
and young girl. Both the mother and father look about the same age.
Sharon | 9:29 a.m. May 16, 2008
In REPLY TO POSTER...HEY SHARON 12:26am...
It does not MATTER what religion you are...if that religion trys to DRILL into your head that the Black Race are the devil themselves...that is WRONG...The only difference between the Black Race and any other Race is the color of our skin. They are no more devils than the man in the moon ! Watch Warren Jeffs videos on YouTube in his own words, I might add...he used the words "DRILL into the men" I was just using one of Jeffs words...so if that makes me wrong in doing so.....That means Jeffs is wrong !!!......RIGHT?
It does not MATTER what religion you are...if that religion trys to DRILL into your head that the Black Race are the devil themselves...that is WRONG...The only difference between the Black Race and any other Race is the color of our skin. They are no more devils than the man in the moon ! Watch Warren Jeffs videos on YouTube in his own words, I might add...he used the words "DRILL into the men" I was just using one of Jeffs words...so if that makes me wrong in doing so.....That means Jeffs is wrong !!!......RIGHT?
G | 9:50 a.m. May 16, 2008
"that's the problem, G. You want a closed society."
I believe that people have a right to live as they please. What a radical idea.
"It may not be illegal to raise children in a closed society"
Then Texas has no right to do what they did, should return the children, and pay reparations.
"but it's certainly wrong - and thats not an opinion, thats a fact."
No it is not a "fact", it is your opinion.
"All children would benefit from an open society, so they can form their own opinions."
You are entitled to your opinion. But you are not entitled to other peoples' children.
I believe that people have a right to live as they please. What a radical idea.
"It may not be illegal to raise children in a closed society"
Then Texas has no right to do what they did, should return the children, and pay reparations.
"but it's certainly wrong - and thats not an opinion, thats a fact."
No it is not a "fact", it is your opinion.
"All children would benefit from an open society, so they can form their own opinions."
You are entitled to your opinion. But you are not entitled to other peoples' children.
Anonymous | 10:10 a.m. May 16, 2008
"If the LDS church ever said we needed to live polygamy--me and my large
family would be instant nonmembers. We would never support the belief of plural
marriage. We as well, even though we are active now, in no way believe it ever
was any kind of revelation. Perhaps, Joseph was sized upon by the devil and was
confused for a time..."
I can't believe that there are active LDS members that don't realize that plural celestial marriage is a commandment...absolutely essential for exaltation. I've been inactive for a few years but how did the Mormon-lite authorities water this down
to the point that that everyday members don't understand it. Holy mackerel! Read Bruce McConkie's writings... I doubt that you'll find any g.a. that will argue with him.
I can't believe that there are active LDS members that don't realize that plural celestial marriage is a commandment...absolutely essential for exaltation. I've been inactive for a few years but how did the Mormon-lite authorities water this down
to the point that that everyday members don't understand it. Holy mackerel! Read Bruce McConkie's writings... I doubt that you'll find any g.a. that will argue with him.
G | 11:25 a.m. May 16, 2008
"We all have choices, or we're supposed to anyway. What the FLDS are
doing is restricting how people think, dress, function..."
Now that you've admitted (9:07 PM) that Texas has no legal justification for this action, it's time to return the children and pay reparations.
The argument is basically settled. You are entitled to your opinion but it does not have force of law.
Now that you've admitted (9:07 PM) that Texas has no legal justification for this action, it's time to return the children and pay reparations.
The argument is basically settled. You are entitled to your opinion but it does not have force of law.
To: G | 12:03 p.m. May 16, 2008
you say: "You are entitled to your opinion. But you are not entitled to
other peoples' children."
-----------
But apparently Uncle Warren is entitled to other peoples children. Many of children at the YFZ are from other FLDS enclaves --- the documentation will show. That is: they're not their WITH THEIR PARENTS. ... + how 'bout them reassignment by Uncle?
-----------
But apparently Uncle Warren is entitled to other peoples children. Many of children at the YFZ are from other FLDS enclaves --- the documentation will show. That is: they're not their WITH THEIR PARENTS. ... + how 'bout them reassignment by Uncle?
To: G | 12:04 p.m. May 16, 2008
Sorry to inform you but you're not much help to your polybuddies. errrr,
you sound really misinformed ... better yet, perhaps you should volunteer to
offer legal help to the group since you seem to think you're a legal
scholar ...
To: Outraged Baptist | 12:07 p.m. May 16, 2008
Are you REALL Baptist? ... or are you fibbin'? ... remember God know if you
are!
To G | 12:17 p.m. May 16, 2008
Ha - the argument is far from settled, because we will use every little bit of
the law to bring down your house. No - the immoral servitude you place on women
and children is not illegal, but some other things are, and they will be dragged
out and fully prosecuted.
And you say "I believe people have a right to live as they please". Well, we do too, and thats the whole point of this. Fact is, you don't believe PEOPLE should have a right to live as they please. You believe MEN should have a right to live as they please. I say this because you obviously don't care whether women and children can live as they please - otherwise you wouldn't be against what has occurred in Texas. You only look at the men as citizens and the women and children obviously don't count in your mind.
And you say "I believe people have a right to live as they please". Well, we do too, and thats the whole point of this. Fact is, you don't believe PEOPLE should have a right to live as they please. You believe MEN should have a right to live as they please. I say this because you obviously don't care whether women and children can live as they please - otherwise you wouldn't be against what has occurred in Texas. You only look at the men as citizens and the women and children obviously don't count in your mind.
G | 1:09 p.m. May 16, 2008
"Ha - the argument is far from settled, because we will use every little
bit of the law to bring down your house. No - the immoral servitude you place on
women and children is not illegal, but some other things are, and they will be
dragged out and fully prosecuted"
You're going to burn down my house? Huh?
You're going to burn down my house? Huh?
G | 1:23 p.m. May 16, 2008
"But apparently Uncle Warren is entitled to other peoples children. Many of
children at the YFZ are from other FLDS enclaves --- the documentation will
show. That is: they're not their WITH THEIR PARENTS. ... + how 'bout
them reassignment by Uncle?"
The question is whether or not the parents consented to it. If they did, I don't see the problem.
If you go raid a summer church, you'll find kids that aren't with their parents either.
The question is whether or not the parents consented to it. If they did, I don't see the problem.
If you go raid a summer church, you'll find kids that aren't with their parents either.
G | 1:24 p.m. May 16, 2008
That should have been "summer church camp" in the previous submission.
To: G | 1:54 p.m. May 16, 2008
you say: "I don't see the problem."
------------
The problem is G, you will ALWAYS come up with a justification or rationalization for the FLDS's actions or situations REGARDLESS of anything either said to you or demonstrated. That much is obvious.
------------
The problem is G, you will ALWAYS come up with a justification or rationalization for the FLDS's actions or situations REGARDLESS of anything either said to you or demonstrated. That much is obvious.
G | 2:17 p.m. May 16, 2008
"
The problem is G, you will ALWAYS come up with a justification or rationalization for the FLDS's actions or situations REGARDLESS of anything either said to you or demonstrated. That much is obvious."
I will NEVER approve of Texas' un-Constitutional, inhuman, and ultimately counterproductive handling of the issue, no.
Nor will I grant that people that are "weird" should be persecuted when no crime is committed. If Texas actually finds abuse, fine, arrest the men involved.
But in this country we don't punish people for what they teach their children, no matter how silly it may be. And some of that stuff is pretty silly (not just FLDS.)
But grabbing 460 people because of a hoaxed phone call and rampant speculation is something I won't condone.
The problem is G, you will ALWAYS come up with a justification or rationalization for the FLDS's actions or situations REGARDLESS of anything either said to you or demonstrated. That much is obvious."
I will NEVER approve of Texas' un-Constitutional, inhuman, and ultimately counterproductive handling of the issue, no.
Nor will I grant that people that are "weird" should be persecuted when no crime is committed. If Texas actually finds abuse, fine, arrest the men involved.
But in this country we don't punish people for what they teach their children, no matter how silly it may be. And some of that stuff is pretty silly (not just FLDS.)
But grabbing 460 people because of a hoaxed phone call and rampant speculation is something I won't condone.
To: G | 4:26 p.m. May 16, 2008
Follow Jeffs, go down with Jeffs. I'll keep you in my prayers ...
Hey: To:G | 5:17 p.m. May 16, 2008
I highly doubt that G follows Jeffs. It seems clear that G simply understands
that the law should be applied fairly to ALL even if we do not like them or
their beliefs.
I also doubt that you will keep G in your prayers. I am guessing you are merely passive aggressive. But since you have a belief I find you particularly hypocritical, since your beliefs are great, fine, and dandy...to you. I find all religions abusive. You seem to miss the big picture that your bizarre beliefs could be targeted next. Why, because you didn't defend the right of another to worship how they may.
I also doubt that you will keep G in your prayers. I am guessing you are merely passive aggressive. But since you have a belief I find you particularly hypocritical, since your beliefs are great, fine, and dandy...to you. I find all religions abusive. You seem to miss the big picture that your bizarre beliefs could be targeted next. Why, because you didn't defend the right of another to worship how they may.
To: Hey: To:G | 5:54 p.m. May 16, 2008
you say: "You seem to miss the big picture that your bizarre beliefs could
be targeted next."
------------
and what bizarre beliefs are those? .. nobody is coming after me. nobody is coming after anyone with common sense and the ability to follow it.
------------
and what bizarre beliefs are those? .. nobody is coming after me. nobody is coming after anyone with common sense and the ability to follow it.
To: Hey: To:G | 6:04 p.m. May 16, 2008
Besides the FLDS and Branch Dividians and a white supremacist or two (other than
Warren Jeffs and his pronouncements on the Negro race), how many folks do you
know that are being targeted? how many do you know of PERSONALLY? ... I know
folks who blast every government official in the U.S. and nobody comes after
them. there are literally HUNDREDS (if not thousands) of groups that thrive on
saying the bizarrest of the bizarre and nobody goes after them. No my paranoid
friend (or worse). Nobody is going after anyone that doesn't
HURT/ABUSE/RAPE/STEAL from anyone. Either get sober or get counseling.
To - G | 6:21 p.m. May 16, 2008
well - all I can say is that regardless of your weak attempts at logic, these
kids are out and about and have probably seen more of the world in the last
month than they had their entire lives. So go on with your diatribe - it serves
no purpose. These kids will at least have gotten a taste of freedom while on
the outside and with any luck they will like it.
crumble crumble goes your house of cards...
crumble crumble goes your house of cards...
To G | 7:41 p.m. May 16, 2008
Talk about twisted comments. I don't think that you are doing the FLDS
people any favors by your bullying comments. Anyone can believe what they want
to believe. But if they are breaking a law by practicing that belief, then it is
illegal. Polygamy is illegal.
How hard is that to understand?
How hard is that to understand?
WONDER? | 7:04 a.m. May 17, 2008
Why were there "BEDS IN THE TEMPLE"? Maybe they ran out of storage
space, or maybe ,just xtra beds, they had no use for. Would a Mormon Temple be
used as a storage facility....I don't know?? Some of you FLDS posters have
any imfo.?? Well, whatever the reason, I'm sure they'll get to the
bottom of it- in court. But still why,....are there BEDS, in the temple???
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Rene Haas
Clockwise from top, a family portrait of Joseph Steed Jessop Sr., Lori Jessop and their children; Ziana Glo Jessop, 4; Joseph Edson Jessop, 2; and Joseph Steed Jessop Jr., who turns 1 on Thursday. The FLDS family went to court to block the separation of the mother and infant child.
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