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Long litany of legal disputes begins in FLDS raid
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Marie | 1:11 a.m. May 14, 2008
Hmmm... we are getting closer to the "courts" part of this.
gal50 | 1:21 a.m. May 14, 2008
Current and future abuse both occur within this sect. Let's say there is a
sect that forces all 14 year-olds to play a game of Russian Roulette. Just the
knowledge that at 14, your parents and community are going to force you to risk
your life is cruel (not to mention unusual) punishment. In this sect, there
isn't one bullet, but four bullets put into the gun and the result
isn't death, but child rape and abandonment. How much fear is created when
you see 14 year-old boys abandoned from their family and you see 14 year-old
girls forced into marriage? How can you trust adults when they routinely abuse
their children? What goes through a child's mind when his or her parents
throw out all of the child's books, toys and pets as was ordered by
Jeff's. Also, cults brainwash their members into believing things like they
are specially chosen and that the outside world is bad. The children are forced
to live in a world full of delusions and other psychological pathology. Without
an understanding of cult mentality and the harm it causes children, this judge
can't possibly rule in the best interest of the children.
Getting worse than a joke | 2:00 a.m. May 14, 2008
Are you sure you got the age of the one year old infant right Texas? Remember
the CPS agents claimed that all the birth certificates from the FLDS are
forgeries? I don't thing the baby looks a day over 6 months, better let it
stay with its mother awhile longer. Or are the documents only forgeries when it
is convenient for Fraulein Meisner and her diabolical crew to imprison free
Americans against their will? Just who is running that joke of a gong show down
there anyhow? Anyone know? Or do they just make up the rules as they go along?
Comments continue below
Morman | 5:40 a.m. May 14, 2008
All are guilty until proven innocent!
First Ammendment | 5:44 a.m. May 14, 2008
The State can kidnap an adult and call it "custody".
The State can tear children from their families because the State thinks that, at some unknown time in the future, the girls might get married to an older man and that the boys might someday become an older man and marry a young girl.
Who protects the people from the abuse of power by the state?
The State can tear children from their families because the State thinks that, at some unknown time in the future, the girls might get married to an older man and that the boys might someday become an older man and marry a young girl.
Who protects the people from the abuse of power by the state?
unknown | 5:59 a.m. May 14, 2008
This is the first time hearing of fathers.How many
fathers are there for 400 or so children.They only mention 3 or 4????
fathers are there for 400 or so children.They only mention 3 or 4????
Raid | 6:27 a.m. May 14, 2008
You would be locked up for this
Texas needs to pay plenty for this
Texas needs to pay plenty for this
shameful | 6:46 a.m. May 14, 2008
I hope this young women sues the state of Texas! This just goes to show how far
Texan authorities have gone in violating the rights of these people. Someone
needs to be held responsible for holding these people against their will with
absolutely no evidence of any crime!
Wife #2 | 7:02 a.m. May 14, 2008
It really is the lowest of the low to take that one year old baby. It's
hard for me to remain civil when I think about some self-righteous CPS agency
KIDNAPPING my baby! Let's call it what it is people:Prejudice and
intolerance. Its time to WAKE UP AMERICA and see what's happening on your
soil!
Sharon | 7:05 a.m. May 14, 2008
I am curious to know why these men are fighting so hard to get their children
back... which is the right thing to do, as a parent of any children, but yet on
the other hand...if Warren Jeffs told these men, he is taking their wife/wives
and children away from them, giving them to another man, and they had to leave
the compound and never return....would these men fight Jeffs just as hard?
Reasonable Man | 7:07 a.m. May 14, 2008
The locals in Eldorado were worried about the FLDS taking over the county, so
State Rep. Harvey Hilderbran sponsored a bill in 2005 that raised the legal age
of consent to marry in Texas from 14 to 16. This was specifically targeted
against the FLDS. When the FLDS moved to Texas the legal age was 14.
Note how the Texas Child Protective Service implies that 18 is the legal age. The CPS can�t be trusted and can�t be trusted with foster children. Two-thirds of their foster children are on mind-altering drugs. Wouldn�t the FLDS children be better off if they were returned to their mothers. Prosecute the men who fathered children with �wives� 15 or less and let the others alone.
I believe the diabolical outcome of Lawrence v Texas by the U.S. Supreme Court ensures that polygamy will be found legal � so polygamy cannot be legally outlawed
Note how the Texas Child Protective Service implies that 18 is the legal age. The CPS can�t be trusted and can�t be trusted with foster children. Two-thirds of their foster children are on mind-altering drugs. Wouldn�t the FLDS children be better off if they were returned to their mothers. Prosecute the men who fathered children with �wives� 15 or less and let the others alone.
I believe the diabolical outcome of Lawrence v Texas by the U.S. Supreme Court ensures that polygamy will be found legal � so polygamy cannot be legally outlawed
Andy Boys | 7:11 a.m. May 14, 2008
A lawsuit of lawyers will definitely make this all better.
Age | 7:19 a.m. May 14, 2008
Isn't it odd that a woman claims to be 22 and offers both a birth
certificate and Texas drivers license as proof. Texas CPS believe that she is
15. Isn't it odd that Texas would offer a drivers license so readily to
someone that looked 15? Now take into account that she may have been in Texas
for 4 years. So, theoretically she could have had a license for that time frame
if 22 since she would have been 18, but age 11 (15 - 4) for CPS. Wow, so a
child of age 11 seemed old enough to a drivers license examiner....really?!!!
Anonymous | 7:26 a.m. May 14, 2008
How ironic that they having the trial at the Tom Green courthouse.
Charles | 7:28 a.m. May 14, 2008
texas will drag everthing in the courts and admission of fault is something you
will never hear, or the mistakes they make no one will ever find out, the media
will never have the guts to inform the pulbic, because the media are controled
by the state of texas. Where is the ACLU, they are not talking too much, its a
big bed, king king size.
getting it straight? | 7:34 a.m. May 14, 2008
I guess Texas CPS and the judge who won't accept proof of age for a woman
who is expecting, could cut off their legs and count the rings?
Seriously, this really smacks of folks just wanting the babies. One day, they are a minor, the next they deliver their babies and the next they are 4 yrs older! How quaint. Texas needs to learn to count.
Seriously, this really smacks of folks just wanting the babies. One day, they are a minor, the next they deliver their babies and the next they are 4 yrs older! How quaint. Texas needs to learn to count.
Moniker Mayhem | 7:35 a.m. May 14, 2008
As I look at the picture of the wholesome casting call of little house on the
prairie my thoughs are...
these people shouldn't be allowed to name children, let alone raise them.
these people shouldn't be allowed to name children, let alone raise them.
Send the children home | 7:38 a.m. May 14, 2008
Good hopefully the children will be returned to their parents.
The CPS really need to be held accountable.
The CPS really need to be held accountable.
Michigander | 7:46 a.m. May 14, 2008
All of this could have been avoided if at the original raid papers could have
been produced to identify people. I do feel sorry for the women and children
caught up in this confusion, but it was their choice to follow a misguided
prophet and his outrageous demands that got them into this mess in the first
place.Give it a little more time and this will be sorted out.It's TEMP
custody, nothing is permanent yet.
Anonymous | 7:48 a.m. May 14, 2008
Just one more patriarchal system gone bad.
Outraged Baptist | 7:47 a.m. May 14, 2008
If they are so worried about the welfare of pregnant minors, then perhaps they
need to raid every public high school in Texas, too?
What excuse will these Texas Inquisitors have when they stand before the Lord on Judgment Day?
What excuse will these Texas Inquisitors have when they stand before the Lord on Judgment Day?
wallofvoodoo | 8:05 a.m. May 14, 2008
Hey Raid & First Ammendment, why are you standing up for the sikkos? Not big
on government control, but the circumstances that preceeded this made it pretty
obvious that something needed to be done. The ones who should pay are the 60
year olds marrying 14 year old girls in the name of God. Please.
Lily | 8:08 a.m. May 14, 2008
I looked 13 when I was pregnant at age 18. But no one locked me up. Go figure.
Abe | 8:11 a.m. May 14, 2008
In the United States I live in people have birth certificates. Don't these
people have them? If a father or mother is so sure their daughter is an adult,
they show the young lady's birth certificate and the issue is settled.
So if you don't have birth certificates you look like you're trying to hide something.
So if you don't have birth certificates you look like you're trying to hide something.
Annie | 8:11 a.m. May 14, 2008
Well it certainly is better for the children to grow up watching cartoon,
playing video games and eating fast foods than learning to work and pray,
that's for sure and for certain.
Mahonri | 8:20 a.m. May 14, 2008
Texas... where mob rule is the State.
Holding adults who have newborns? Kidnapping and arrest without due process?
The SS is alive and well in Texas where people are persecuted because of their religion. If they were polygamous Baptists all would be well.
Holding adults who have newborns? Kidnapping and arrest without due process?
The SS is alive and well in Texas where people are persecuted because of their religion. If they were polygamous Baptists all would be well.
Texan | 8:34 a.m. May 14, 2008
None of this will matter. Texas has already won. It's over.
Yeah!! | 8:39 a.m. May 14, 2008
Finally a judge with justice! Daily supervised visits!!! All the parents and
children need this and their sibling groups TOGETHER not across the state. I bet
their service plans have classes on "visitation days" so they cannot
see their children, and thus loose them because they do not use their
visitation. I have heard of sick plans as such. I hope this cracks the ice on
this case and INDIVIDUAL cases be reconsidered, not the "cattle call"
justice of Walthers. Perversion of justice! We cannot let the Consitution slip
away or it will for us too. I pray this new judge will expose the illegal
proceedings and lay the path for legal proceedings or compensation for the
innocent families. Prosecute the perverts but let the innocent families go! No
wonder CPS tried to take a new baby and newly postpartum mother (discharged in 6
hours!!! Not even Medicade allows that!) and try to sneek her to another county
in the middle of the night--they don't like a fair judge.
Thomas | 8:41 a.m. May 14, 2008
I fear for these people. I have read a report that the service plans calls for
them to essentially renounce their religion. I hope that is not true.
Re: Getting Worse | 8:43 a.m. May 14, 2008
I actually think the baby is a newborn.. don't you.. She still has another
11 months to go before the baby is a year... In fact, all the children look like
newborns to me... Let the mothers stay with them. I read the Third Option
article for Elderado and they expose the danger of removing abused (not
imminent danger cases) children and nonabused children from their parents..it
creates more problems than it solves for the emotional well being of the child.
Ever wonder why so many foster kids are on drugs (legal or illegal)? I bet the
"angry nine year old" is already doped up to suppress his anger at the
injustice that even a child can see. He knows HIS mom is not an abuser. We
cannot inflict our standards that are not stated in law and label it abuse. We
did nothing to "free" these children..they will think us evil and
cruel (even attested to by MHMR employees) and retreat farther away from any
"salvation". This could have been done a lot less traumatically and we
the people will be responsible.
Be Proactive | 8:47 a.m. May 14, 2008
Go to the Common Room blog and get the list of officials you need to contact.
Break down their doors and show the Unconstitutional proceedings and the young
families cases. If this is not challenged it will endanger us all.. Our
Consitution is protection for the innocent.. when done away with, all are guilty
and the innocent prosecuted along with the guilty. If this was done right, we
would now know the guilty families and the innocent. We also cannot become
thought police and prosecute on whims or speculations or "what might
happen". All of us would be guilty of CPS definition of neglect one time or
another (their defenition is not what we would think is neglect) and now if this
precedent is allowed, we can all have our children removed for neglect that
"might happen 10 years from now." Shocking and scary. If you are any
American contact this list and spread the word...Lets do something instead of
complaining when potientially innocent children and families are suffering..they
have enough on their hands just trying to travel 900 miles to visit each child
so they don't miss a minute with their grieving children.
Sobbing Child | 8:51 a.m. May 14, 2008
I saw the new video on captivefldschildren and cried my eyes out seeing the
condition of these children in foster care. The little 3 year old boy is sobbing
in a way NO boy should EVER sob. It was gut and heart wrenching to see him. We
are harming more than helping and if you disagree now that CPS claims are
unsubstantiated and no evidence presented (you might have a leg to disagree if
there was such) then you are heartless and cruel. We think we are saviors of
these children but we are tearing them up. One boys looked like his eyes were
all sunken in and the babies looked unhappy and screaming and disattached (a
protective mechanism against injury and hurt--that WE allowed to happen without
a huge outcry). We are the ones abusing them.. Lets storm Texas and Congress
about this legal abuse. This is NOT in the best interests of these children. We
can do better.
Re: Unknown | 8:54 a.m. May 14, 2008
Well, then lets focus on these 3 to 4 fathers who DO care and get them their
families back. You are still "cattle calling" and treating these
families as one. If these fathers are willing to fight tooth and nail for their
children, lets do what we can to help.. Leave the others alone to their fates.
Even if these are the ONLY innocent ones, we cannot condemn their families for
the sake of saving face. If these are innocent and fighting..get their children
back ASAP...
wrz | 8:54 a.m. May 14, 2008
"The children are forced to live in a world full of delusions and other
psychological pathology."
What's new? That's how much of the world beyond the boundaries of their ranch lives.
What's new? That's how much of the world beyond the boundaries of their ranch lives.
Confused | 8:55 a.m. May 14, 2008
So, when is a 17 year old an innocent victim but a day later she turns 18 and is
now an "abuser" and her babies taken away? This is shoddy at best.
Sam | 8:55 a.m. May 14, 2008
"Current and future abuse both occur within this sect."
And more frequently and violently outside the sect.
And more frequently and violently outside the sect.
Interesting | 8:57 a.m. May 14, 2008
Did anyone notice that they were at TOM GREEN courthouse? Does that count as
irony?
Bill | 9:23 a.m. May 14, 2008
I've seen no photos of 60 year-old men married to teenagers. It may have
happened occasionally, but every photo of the polygamous families we've
seen has shown a younger man married to a woman who is at least 16 or 18 years
old. I wonder how much of this "60 year-old pervert" husband stuff is
rumor and fabrication.
Maybe Mahoni | 9:24 a.m. May 14, 2008
THATS the problem. These Texans have such miserable lives and are so mind
controlled by the churches they belong to in Texas, they need to make everyone
else miserable and make them feel like they've actaully accomplished
something. Maybe they (wrongly) thought this would get Mormons out of Texas?
But the jokes on them. FLDS are not mainstream Moromns!
Re: Abe | 9:34 a.m. May 14, 2008
Did you read the article? Do you know anything?
John | 9:34 a.m. May 14, 2008
I WASN'T AWARE THAT NAZI-ISM WAS LEGAL IN AMERICA - that is until I saw
what Texas has done.
Isn't anyone aware that it's against the law to investigate one possible crime and then, by magic, start a shopping list to uncover a whole list of other crimes? Doesn't anyone see that such government action gives the police way too much power and latitude to come into our homes and investigate anythings their little (emphasize: little) hearts desire.
I am a Mormon descendant of 19th century polygamy and deplore this version of polygamy and any law-breaking they do or may be doing.
But for heaven sakes, doesn't any see the that such government action puts us all at risk? Hasn't anyone heard of Krystalnacht (one of the initial times where the Nazis severly and openly attacked their Jews)?
Isn't anyone aware that it's against the law to investigate one possible crime and then, by magic, start a shopping list to uncover a whole list of other crimes? Doesn't anyone see that such government action gives the police way too much power and latitude to come into our homes and investigate anythings their little (emphasize: little) hearts desire.
I am a Mormon descendant of 19th century polygamy and deplore this version of polygamy and any law-breaking they do or may be doing.
But for heaven sakes, doesn't any see the that such government action puts us all at risk? Hasn't anyone heard of Krystalnacht (one of the initial times where the Nazis severly and openly attacked their Jews)?
AreYouListeningAbe? | 9:39 a.m. May 14, 2008
The parents said they showed the birth certificates AND their drivers license!!!
CPS WOULD NOT BELEIVE THEM!!!!!!!!!!!! Help the children..This is a great big
conspiracy to take away ALL OUR RIGHTS!!!! Are the American people so asleep
that they cannot see?????? Go to truthwillprevail.org and see for yourself?
good for the goose | 9:42 a.m. May 14, 2008
Re: Thomas 8:41 -
Renounce their religion?
Isn't that what Mormons have been asking other religions to do?
What goes around ...
Renounce their religion?
Isn't that what Mormons have been asking other religions to do?
What goes around ...
Phil | 9:46 a.m. May 14, 2008
Watching the heart-wrenching developments of the families in China who have lost
their children to the earthquake, I have to think of how the parents of the FLDS
children must have felt the same way as government agents swarmed in and took
their children from their arms. How the screaming and crying must have been
horrific. How is it that we can stand by passively when State agencies
forcefully remove hundreds of children from their parents without any form of
hearing or justice and, yet, we can feel so sorry for those parents who lost
their children in a natural catastrophe? Our government will send all kinds of
aid to help the suffering of the Chinese but will do nothing to alleviate the
pain and suffering of good Americans who are experiencing the same suffering
under the color of law. Where are our priorities?
Wife #1 # 5 and no more | 9:48 a.m. May 14, 2008
Ive seen it all! It's well past time on cleaning up the FLDS mess-around
men. These men are cowards! The FLDS mothers should all get their children back
that were produced from all these forced marriages. It is not the womens fault.
Go find the men!!!!!!!!
DR Don | 9:59 a.m. May 14, 2008
Legal disputes????????
What else would one expect when there are 500 lawyers involved?
What else would one expect when there are 500 lawyers involved?
Happy Day | 10:12 a.m. May 14, 2008
They held this woman in bondage for how long??
Just an innocent mistake, huh? Oh yeah, they thought she was sixteen.
Held by armed thugs!! Children mistreated.
Remember that shurtleff is in this up to his arm pits. I hope this case becomes a tar baby that exposes every ideological nazi in this state.
Just an innocent mistake, huh? Oh yeah, they thought she was sixteen.
Held by armed thugs!! Children mistreated.
Remember that shurtleff is in this up to his arm pits. I hope this case becomes a tar baby that exposes every ideological nazi in this state.
where there's smoke there's fire | 10:18 a.m. May 14, 2008
Come on, FLDSers, who do you think you're kidding with these comments?
They're filled with misdirection and 'straw man' arguments. Half
the little girls were pregnant - some had 3 kids! People gave multiple names and
ages, switched wrist bracelets, etc. These childish (and criminal) games
designed to thwart attempts at identification are what led to this mess (that,
and claiming 'God' status). Letting the legal process play out is the
only way to understand if child abuse really is occurring. The DNA evidence may
show that everything is on the up and up -- unlikely, but if that happens, then
the FLDS will be sure to reap significant monetary gain. All of the FLDS
accounts I've read (NOT the ones from 'escapees', or men
who've been forcibly separated from their families by God Warren
Jeffs)admit that abuses are going on. The only question is th extent of those
abuses. If this process gets rid of a some of the child molesters, the FLDS will
benefit - as will the children we haven't abandoned in harm's way.
nantz | 10:18 a.m. May 14, 2008
Can't get through, to many LDS,FLDS posterson here,....go figure!!!!!
wake up! | 10:17 a.m. May 14, 2008
it's just sick and wrong. i look at my 14 and 15 yr old girls and think, i
would slap around any man who wanted to marry or impregnate them at that age. i
don't care if it is a religious right for them. th FLDS group if they
really love their chidlren as they say they do need to open their eyes and see
that it is wrong to force ones child to marry and have babies at such a young
age. 18 is even to young in some cases. Are our children even ready for the
reality of being a parent at that age? Some can barely take care of themselves.
wake up people quit defending the ones who rape and harm their own children or
even allow it, just because they feel their prophet said it is Gods will. Do you
really think it is God's will to harm a child? think about it.
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Rene Haas
Clockwise from top, a family portrait of Joseph Steed Jessop Sr., Lori Jessop and their children; Ziana Glo Jessop, 4; Joseph Edson Jessop, 2; and Joseph Steed Jessop Jr., who turns 1 on Thursday. The FLDS family went to court to block the separation of the mother and infant child.
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