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Utah Republicans: Cannon hangs on for primary race
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Anonymous | 1:18 p.m. May 11, 2008
*** "I attended one of Chaffetz's town meetings and left with the
impression that he will be for whatever his audience wants." ***
Well. The title of the job he is seeking is "representative," so it seems to me that he's on the right track. Would you rather have a representative who listens to his constituents 100% of the time or one who listens to lobbyists 100% of the time. Neither group is perfect, but forced to choose I know which one I'd take.
*** "I was at the convention and I could hardly believe the rude, boorish behavior of some delegates, 99% of them wearing Chaffetz shirts." ***
That's not a falsifiable statement. That's your personal experience. I'm sure lots of other people felt that Cannon delegates were rude or boorish. And since most of the readers didn't attend who's to judge? It's all hearsay.
Well. The title of the job he is seeking is "representative," so it seems to me that he's on the right track. Would you rather have a representative who listens to his constituents 100% of the time or one who listens to lobbyists 100% of the time. Neither group is perfect, but forced to choose I know which one I'd take.
*** "I was at the convention and I could hardly believe the rude, boorish behavior of some delegates, 99% of them wearing Chaffetz shirts." ***
That's not a falsifiable statement. That's your personal experience. I'm sure lots of other people felt that Cannon delegates were rude or boorish. And since most of the readers didn't attend who's to judge? It's all hearsay.
Dan | 1:22 p.m. May 11, 2008
As a second district delegate, I was not involved in the third district race. I
am of the opinion that the move by Leavitt/Cannon supporters to march through
the convention center in violation of the rules and to continue marching after
being requested to leave was rude and counter productive for their own campaign.
When Cannon and Leavitt walked down the aisle to gather support, they were both
showing disrespect for the two-thirds of the delegates who are not in the third
district. When candidates and delegates ignore the rules, it is difficult to
conduct an orderly convention and complete the business session. Indeed, the
convention adjourned without considering any platform resolutions. Having
devoted an entire day to the convention, it was disappointing to leave
unfinished business that could have been completed in an hour or so.
Comments continue below
Leavitt Volunteer | 2:34 p.m. May 11, 2008
Attack politics and name smearing. That is the name of politics. Yesterday I
was filled with hope thinking we would finally have a statesman in Congress,
someone that could finally change how things are done in Washington. Chaffetz
lied and cheated his way past Leavitt. Leavitt supported Cannon, not because he
wanted to align himself with power (I was in the room when that decision was
made). Leavitt supported Cannon because Chaffetz did nothing but attack and
misrepresent Leavitt through the entire campaign. Chaffetz represents everything
that is wrong with America...doing and saying anything, stomping on anyone, just
to get a title. With choices like McCain/Obama and Cannon/Chaffetz this recent
Political Science graduate is already thinking about throwing in the towel on
America. Good men can no longer get into office, Reagen would be ashamed of us.
God help us.
Anonymous | 2:44 p.m. May 11, 2008
*** "Populism is doing what is the will of the masses at the day. Much like
the Jacobens of revolutionary France." ***
So representatives shouldn't listen to the will of the people?
Well, then, let's just through out democratic elections and let every current member of the House, Senate, White House keep their jobs and pass them down to their heirs. After all, we wouldn't want to suffer a horrible form of government where leaders listen to the people.
And for every French Revolution you can quote I can quote you a hundred examples of undemocratic government gone awry.
So representatives shouldn't listen to the will of the people?
Well, then, let's just through out democratic elections and let every current member of the House, Senate, White House keep their jobs and pass them down to their heirs. After all, we wouldn't want to suffer a horrible form of government where leaders listen to the people.
And for every French Revolution you can quote I can quote you a hundred examples of undemocratic government gone awry.
Re: Anonymous | 3:10 p.m. May 11, 2008
Er, yeah, but we live in a Constitutional Republic, not an unbridled democracy
subject to the whims of the majority. Thank goodness for the founders of our
nation who understood the difference.
BBKing | 3:15 p.m. May 11, 2008
On the populism front, do you know the difference between representation and
populism? Fine line but a clear difference.
I think what many people are saying is that Jason would say or do anything that is popular, hence populism. Whether it is right or not, he will say it.
Take the issue of deporting 20 million people. Do you think that is doable in any way, shape or form? The answer is no. Even ICE, Border Patrol and Minutemen agree it is not possible. So Jason begins telling delegates he supports deportation of all illegal immigrants. It was popular, so he said it.
You should get into some of the debates our Founders had between Jacobian populism (lots of guilotines there) and representation. I think you might have a slightly askewed view of it. I think that was what the other comment was about.
Just a thought.
I think what many people are saying is that Jason would say or do anything that is popular, hence populism. Whether it is right or not, he will say it.
Take the issue of deporting 20 million people. Do you think that is doable in any way, shape or form? The answer is no. Even ICE, Border Patrol and Minutemen agree it is not possible. So Jason begins telling delegates he supports deportation of all illegal immigrants. It was popular, so he said it.
You should get into some of the debates our Founders had between Jacobian populism (lots of guilotines there) and representation. I think you might have a slightly askewed view of it. I think that was what the other comment was about.
Just a thought.
Stewart | 3:21 p.m. May 11, 2008
The Chaffetz vote was primarily an anti-Cannon vote. Anyone but Cannon. Even
though Leavitt did all that he could to give his votes to Cannon, only about
half did. Chaffetz still got about half of the Leavitt delegates. Some of you
seem not to like Chaffetz much, but I suspect that you are and have been Cannon
faithfuls. It appears that your group is getting smaller and the anti-Cannon
group, no matter who the candidate is, is getting larger. This is affecting the
primary as well. This may be the end of Chris Cannon in congress.
Still Waiting | 3:54 p.m. May 11, 2008
Leavitt people keep complaining about the attacks. Give us the false statements
made by Chaffetz about Leavitt's positions. Everything Chaffetz did to
"attack" Leavitt was based on Leavitt's own words. Leavitt was
the no-backbone candidate who stood for nothing specific and said what he
thought the people wanted to hear.
Don't get me wrong, I think Leavitt is a probably decent fellow, and would make a nice neighbor...Congressman, no. To complain about being hit upside the head with his OWN positions is the pinnacle of hypocrisy. Having a legit debate about issues and differences is NOT an attack, give me break.
Don't get me wrong, I think Leavitt is a probably decent fellow, and would make a nice neighbor...Congressman, no. To complain about being hit upside the head with his OWN positions is the pinnacle of hypocrisy. Having a legit debate about issues and differences is NOT an attack, give me break.
BBKing | 4:43 p.m. May 11, 2008
This is going to be a long 6 weeks. I am not a dyed in the wool Cannon voter. I
believe in tough enforcement measures though I also believe we have to be
thoughtful about how things are done. In 2004 I supported Throckmorton, who was
tough on enforcement though tried to find a balance.
Since 2004 I have paid much more attention to this issue and have become increasingly alarmed at the enforcement only crowd. They are boorish, loud, confrontational and completely unrealistic. They end up being so focused on anything Hispanic that I no longer defend them when people call them xenophobic and racist. They have worked hard to create that image so let'em have it.
I don't want a Congressman who will say anything to get elected. And that is Jason Chaeffetz.
Time will tell though I'd guess that Cannon wins the primary. Jason isn't going to be able to hide behind a viel of rabid one-issue delegates. He is going to have to present a reasoned approach to this problem that does't include fascism. When he does it'll be the very amnesty he has campaigned against. Like Jacob. It's called drafting a policy, not campaign rhetoric.
Since 2004 I have paid much more attention to this issue and have become increasingly alarmed at the enforcement only crowd. They are boorish, loud, confrontational and completely unrealistic. They end up being so focused on anything Hispanic that I no longer defend them when people call them xenophobic and racist. They have worked hard to create that image so let'em have it.
I don't want a Congressman who will say anything to get elected. And that is Jason Chaeffetz.
Time will tell though I'd guess that Cannon wins the primary. Jason isn't going to be able to hide behind a viel of rabid one-issue delegates. He is going to have to present a reasoned approach to this problem that does't include fascism. When he does it'll be the very amnesty he has campaigned against. Like Jacob. It's called drafting a policy, not campaign rhetoric.
Bennett for Senate...AGAIN? | 5:06 p.m. May 11, 2008
I find it funny (and interesting) that U.S. Senator Bob Bennett would tell the
GOP Convention that he's going to seek another term in congress.
I wonder what Gary Herbert, a darling of the delegates, thinks about that.
I wonder what Mark Shurtleff, a bonafied state-wide elected official, thinks about that.
If all three are in that 'race' - I can guarantee that Herbert and Shurtleff will be in a Primary Election.
Bennett is, as he should be, DONE.
I wonder what Gary Herbert, a darling of the delegates, thinks about that.
I wonder what Mark Shurtleff, a bonafied state-wide elected official, thinks about that.
If all three are in that 'race' - I can guarantee that Herbert and Shurtleff will be in a Primary Election.
Bennett is, as he should be, DONE.
Anonymous | 5:39 p.m. May 11, 2008
*** "Er, yeah, but we live in a Constitutional Republic, not an unbridled
democracy subject to the whims of the majority" ***
I referred to democratic elections. We have elections because our founders believed leaders should answer to the people. It's a bit silly to worry about populism when Congress's approval rating is hovering somewhere around 26%. Maybe when they stop listening to special interest half as much as they do we can worry about them paying too much attention to the voters.
*** "Since 2004 I have paid much more attention to this issue and have become increasingly alarmed at the enforcement only crowd. They are boorish, loud, confrontational and completely unrealistic....They have worked hard to create that image so let'em have it." ***
Rubbish. I guess you can claim to have believed in anything on an anonymous board.
Anyone paying any attention to the debate should've noticed the downright dishonesty of the open borders fanatics - they change arguments every 5 minutes, and they're frequently completely contradictory arguments. Watch the way this newspaper praises "Hispanic family values" then publishes data showing the Hispanic teen birthrate is 4 times higher than the rest of Utah.
Nice talking t'ya, Joe.
I referred to democratic elections. We have elections because our founders believed leaders should answer to the people. It's a bit silly to worry about populism when Congress's approval rating is hovering somewhere around 26%. Maybe when they stop listening to special interest half as much as they do we can worry about them paying too much attention to the voters.
*** "Since 2004 I have paid much more attention to this issue and have become increasingly alarmed at the enforcement only crowd. They are boorish, loud, confrontational and completely unrealistic....They have worked hard to create that image so let'em have it." ***
Rubbish. I guess you can claim to have believed in anything on an anonymous board.
Anyone paying any attention to the debate should've noticed the downright dishonesty of the open borders fanatics - they change arguments every 5 minutes, and they're frequently completely contradictory arguments. Watch the way this newspaper praises "Hispanic family values" then publishes data showing the Hispanic teen birthrate is 4 times higher than the rest of Utah.
Nice talking t'ya, Joe.
Robert H | 5:40 p.m. May 11, 2008
I love the discussion from the empassioned delegates about Gary Herbert. Do you
know Gary Herbert? Do you know how he became Lt Gov? Do you know his service as
Utah County Commissioner?
Once again, we have the ever so deep state delegate making broad predictions based on emotion. Gary is a great guy. And when he announced he wasn't running for re-election as Utah county commissioner the applause was almost universal, county wide. He is a great guy infront of the camera. Great guy giving speeches. Great guy talking to media. Almost never showed up for work. The other two commissioners ran the county and almost no one disputes that.
So now you want to replace Bob Bennett with another great PR guy in Gary Herbert. Are you serious?!
Let me tell you a hard earned opinion. The right wing wacko is every bit as emotional as the tree hugging, leftist liberal. They are just emotional about different issues.
Can you tell me 5 things Gary Herbert has done to earn the job of US Senator? Besides getting your vote as Lt Governor that is?
PUU LEASE!
Once again, we have the ever so deep state delegate making broad predictions based on emotion. Gary is a great guy. And when he announced he wasn't running for re-election as Utah county commissioner the applause was almost universal, county wide. He is a great guy infront of the camera. Great guy giving speeches. Great guy talking to media. Almost never showed up for work. The other two commissioners ran the county and almost no one disputes that.
So now you want to replace Bob Bennett with another great PR guy in Gary Herbert. Are you serious?!
Let me tell you a hard earned opinion. The right wing wacko is every bit as emotional as the tree hugging, leftist liberal. They are just emotional about different issues.
Can you tell me 5 things Gary Herbert has done to earn the job of US Senator? Besides getting your vote as Lt Governor that is?
PUU LEASE!
Anonymous | 5:42 p.m. May 11, 2008
*** "I wonder what Mark Shurtleff, a bonafied state-wide elected official,
thinks about that. If all three are in that 'race' - I can guarantee
that Herbert and Shurtleff will be in a Primary Election." ***
My understanding is that Shurtleff wants to be governor. He won't win that one, either. Conservatives might not oust him from the AG slot, but I seriously doubt they'll let him be governor. Guns, gay marriage, illegal immigration - his list of heresies is too long.
My understanding is that Shurtleff wants to be governor. He won't win that one, either. Conservatives might not oust him from the AG slot, but I seriously doubt they'll let him be governor. Guns, gay marriage, illegal immigration - his list of heresies is too long.
EN | 5:42 p.m. May 11, 2008
This is so sad that many who have posted on here don't understand what
something like this does to our state.
Ken Ivory - I was at that mtg with you when you sat and raised your voice to Cannon the entire time. Shame on you for being so narrow that you only wanted buzz words for a response. The world is a more complicated place than Mr Chaffetz understands and I would have thought that you understood that. It's clear that you and others were sucked into Chaffetz's spew. He's a wolf in sheeps clothing and I think that enough people know about his antics in Australia.
You hate to bring up someone's past like that but you should ask him why he left NuSkin. Ask him about his account with strippers. He won't tell you but I'll bet you hear it from reporters - they know the story.
CHaffetz is someone that has said what he needs to get elected. Honestly - I took you for someone that knew better.
Ken Ivory - I was at that mtg with you when you sat and raised your voice to Cannon the entire time. Shame on you for being so narrow that you only wanted buzz words for a response. The world is a more complicated place than Mr Chaffetz understands and I would have thought that you understood that. It's clear that you and others were sucked into Chaffetz's spew. He's a wolf in sheeps clothing and I think that enough people know about his antics in Australia.
You hate to bring up someone's past like that but you should ask him why he left NuSkin. Ask him about his account with strippers. He won't tell you but I'll bet you hear it from reporters - they know the story.
CHaffetz is someone that has said what he needs to get elected. Honestly - I took you for someone that knew better.
Anonymous | 5:49 p.m. May 11, 2008
--- Time will tell though I'd guess that Cannon wins the primary. Jason
isn't going to be able to hide behind a viel of rabid one-issue delegates.
He is going to have to present a reasoned approach to this problem that
does't include fascism. When he does it'll be the very amnesty he has
campaigned against. ---
Cannon may win. I'd say he has the advantage at this point, given the last two primary races. But one thinks that Americans, even 3rd district voters, may be feeling a little incumbent fatigue this year. Congressional approval is at an all time low. In D3 that means a different Republican, not a Democrat. Chaffetz is charming, likeable, and smart, unlike the 2 opponents who preceeded him.
Illegal immigration is more than one issue. It affects quality of life, the environment, culture, education, health care, wages, you name it. If Chaffetz can make that argument - in a year where people are worried about all of those - he has a shot.
It's nothing short of naive stupidity to presume that you can improve a country's welfare by importing millions of unskilled illiterates.
But have fun trying, Mr. Cannon - er, "BBKing."
Cannon may win. I'd say he has the advantage at this point, given the last two primary races. But one thinks that Americans, even 3rd district voters, may be feeling a little incumbent fatigue this year. Congressional approval is at an all time low. In D3 that means a different Republican, not a Democrat. Chaffetz is charming, likeable, and smart, unlike the 2 opponents who preceeded him.
Illegal immigration is more than one issue. It affects quality of life, the environment, culture, education, health care, wages, you name it. If Chaffetz can make that argument - in a year where people are worried about all of those - he has a shot.
It's nothing short of naive stupidity to presume that you can improve a country's welfare by importing millions of unskilled illiterates.
But have fun trying, Mr. Cannon - er, "BBKing."
To BBKing | 6:06 p.m. May 11, 2008
Your information about Chaffetz is so far off the mark that I can only guess you
haven't had nearly as much exposure to him as you claim. Will you PLEASE
go look at the Chaffetz website, read the ACTUAL immigration position (the long
one, not the summary)? No one wants to debate someone who is as woefully
uninformed as you are.
Chaffetz has been so specific, he hasn't left himself room to pander. Leavitt was so unspecific he could claim to support the position of anyone who showed up to his meetings. When Chaffetz tried to pin him down on issues, he considered it dirty politics.
You have a right to whatever bias you want to have - you don't have to like the same candidates I do. But please do your homework instead of continually spouting misinformation that any delegate could easily dispute. As often as you post here, you are really starting to look foolish.
Chaffetz has been so specific, he hasn't left himself room to pander. Leavitt was so unspecific he could claim to support the position of anyone who showed up to his meetings. When Chaffetz tried to pin him down on issues, he considered it dirty politics.
You have a right to whatever bias you want to have - you don't have to like the same candidates I do. But please do your homework instead of continually spouting misinformation that any delegate could easily dispute. As often as you post here, you are really starting to look foolish.
Unaffiliated Voter | 6:10 p.m. May 11, 2008
I am NOT a fan of Chris Cannon. Here's why:
I was uncomfortable with the level of malice in the campaign rhetoric against his opponent during Chris' first bid for Congress, a Democrat.
I was concerned by the people who attended the event that celebrated Chris' candidancy for re-election.
I was put off by the venom in Chris' attacks on Clinton during the impeachment scandal.
I was appalled by the amount of money Chris accepted from out-of-state special interest groups, especially those with a dismal record on environmental issues.
I was horrified when Chris defended Republicans caught in scandals in recent years.
I was discouraged with Chris' unquestioning support of George Bush's policies.
I do not agree with Chris' stance on illegal immigration.
I disapprove that Chris has used his seat on the Transportaion Committee to get earmark money for, NOT Utah citizens, but for Utah corporations.
I am convinced that Chris is part of the polarizing partinsanship which has gridlocked Washington.
I believe that Chris has sufficiently alienated members of the other party to the extent that he is no longer effective in the present Congress.
But Cannon is preferable to Chaffetz.
I was uncomfortable with the level of malice in the campaign rhetoric against his opponent during Chris' first bid for Congress, a Democrat.
I was concerned by the people who attended the event that celebrated Chris' candidancy for re-election.
I was put off by the venom in Chris' attacks on Clinton during the impeachment scandal.
I was appalled by the amount of money Chris accepted from out-of-state special interest groups, especially those with a dismal record on environmental issues.
I was horrified when Chris defended Republicans caught in scandals in recent years.
I was discouraged with Chris' unquestioning support of George Bush's policies.
I do not agree with Chris' stance on illegal immigration.
I disapprove that Chris has used his seat on the Transportaion Committee to get earmark money for, NOT Utah citizens, but for Utah corporations.
I am convinced that Chris is part of the polarizing partinsanship which has gridlocked Washington.
I believe that Chris has sufficiently alienated members of the other party to the extent that he is no longer effective in the present Congress.
But Cannon is preferable to Chaffetz.
John Lambert | 6:59 p.m. May 11, 2008
What people need to realize is that instate tuition is an investment. We
invest in instate people so they will stay in the state and build it up. Thus,
we care if people have been in the state for three weeks or five years.
Actually, the whole theory and motives behind instate tuition are not fully understood. I am not sure it really makes sense at all, and so would say people should look into doing away with it completely.
However, the real question is do you want a group of underpriveligesd people who are on the verge of rebellion and riot or do you want to fully intergrate people into the system.
I think Latter-day Saints should reach out and be kind and considerate to everyone, and see that we are all children of the same Heavenly Father and not discriminate against people because they were born elsewhere or have a different skin color or speak a different language than other people do.
Actually, the whole theory and motives behind instate tuition are not fully understood. I am not sure it really makes sense at all, and so would say people should look into doing away with it completely.
However, the real question is do you want a group of underpriveligesd people who are on the verge of rebellion and riot or do you want to fully intergrate people into the system.
I think Latter-day Saints should reach out and be kind and considerate to everyone, and see that we are all children of the same Heavenly Father and not discriminate against people because they were born elsewhere or have a different skin color or speak a different language than other people do.
BBKing | 7:12 p.m. May 11, 2008
You go with what Jason says on his website. I will go with his positions when he
began the race. He has changed over time.
As for looking foolish for posting a number of times. Look at sentence structure and patterns of other posts. You will note that many different posts are almost identical. I am honest enough to use the same name, while others use different names each time. We have not had 69 people post on here. I would guess maybe 20-25. Most of them change their name. Consistency is its own credibility.
As for looking foolish for posting a number of times. Look at sentence structure and patterns of other posts. You will note that many different posts are almost identical. I am honest enough to use the same name, while others use different names each time. We have not had 69 people post on here. I would guess maybe 20-25. Most of them change their name. Consistency is its own credibility.
Anonymous | 7:17 p.m. May 11, 2008
*** "I think Latter-day Saints should reach out..." ***
Fine, then LATTER-DAY SAINTS can do that, with THEIR money, not with taxpayer money.
*** "...and be kind and considerate to everyone, and see that we are all children of the same Heavenly Father and not discriminate against people because they were born elsewhere or have a different skin color or speak a different language than other people do." ***
You do realize you've just listed the recipe for an invasion, don't you? Anyone can come here, in unlimited numbers, and we, as Americans, have no moral right to turn them back?
Sorry, but these people already have their own countries. They don't have a right to ours, as well.
And I trust that when you die you won't discriminate based on where a person was born or who they were born to. That you'll divide whatever estate is left evenly amongst all of God's children, and not give it to your kids only? And you won't mind if your own parents do likewise?
Fine, then LATTER-DAY SAINTS can do that, with THEIR money, not with taxpayer money.
*** "...and be kind and considerate to everyone, and see that we are all children of the same Heavenly Father and not discriminate against people because they were born elsewhere or have a different skin color or speak a different language than other people do." ***
You do realize you've just listed the recipe for an invasion, don't you? Anyone can come here, in unlimited numbers, and we, as Americans, have no moral right to turn them back?
Sorry, but these people already have their own countries. They don't have a right to ours, as well.
And I trust that when you die you won't discriminate based on where a person was born or who they were born to. That you'll divide whatever estate is left evenly amongst all of God's children, and not give it to your kids only? And you won't mind if your own parents do likewise?
EN | 7:19 p.m. May 11, 2008
Cannon is NOT on the transportation committee. Just to clarify.
Anonymous | 7:28 p.m. May 11, 2008
*** "Cannon is NOT on the transportation committee. Just to clarify."
***
Just as I thought: his campaign tam is busy on this board. Is he paying you guys overtime for working on Sunday, or is it just Chris and Joe posting comments here?
Just as I thought: his campaign tam is busy on this board. Is he paying you guys overtime for working on Sunday, or is it just Chris and Joe posting comments here?
EN | 7:40 p.m. May 11, 2008
Just stating the facts which is more than most on here. I'm nowhere near a
campaign staffer but at least would like to keep the debate clean and accurate.
Cannon isn't on that committee - that's a fact.
Robert H | 7:52 p.m. May 11, 2008
Hey anonymous from 7:28 PM. Remember that while 600 or so delegates at an arch
conservative convention may not like Chris Cannon, hundreds of thousands of us
have voted for him every election since 1996, and will do so again. The
convention is not the rank and file republican! You will find that out soon
enough.
Anonymous | 8:20 p.m. May 11, 2008
*** "Hey anonymous from 7:28 PM. Remember that while 600 or so delegates at
an arch conservative convention may not like Chris Cannon, hundreds of thousands
of us have voted for him every election since 1996, and will do so again. The
convention is not the rank and file republican! You will find that out soon
enough." ***
You're probably right about Cannon winning re-election.
We get the kind of government we deserve - the 74% disapproval kind. Remember that most people in most districts across the nation will be re-electing the very folks that have racked up that impressive disapproval rating.
You're probably right about Cannon winning re-election.
We get the kind of government we deserve - the 74% disapproval kind. Remember that most people in most districts across the nation will be re-electing the very folks that have racked up that impressive disapproval rating.
Typical Cannon | 8:53 p.m. May 11, 2008
Let the games begin. Cannon's MO is to spread false information about his
opponents anonymously. EN - nice try, but if you really had a story with a
grain of truth to it, you wouldn't be posting it anonymously to a website.
You'd be running to the newspapers. What else is Cannon going to make up?
It's a pretty pathetic way to campaign. Voters would do well to remember that a guy who is willing to cheat, flaunt the rules, and ruin another man's (David Leavitt) political future for his own gain would stop at nothing to win. It will be interesting to see what other creative rumors the Cannon camp tries to float. If David Leavitt had won, no doubt we'd be hearing the same rumors about him.
It's a pretty pathetic way to campaign. Voters would do well to remember that a guy who is willing to cheat, flaunt the rules, and ruin another man's (David Leavitt) political future for his own gain would stop at nothing to win. It will be interesting to see what other creative rumors the Cannon camp tries to float. If David Leavitt had won, no doubt we'd be hearing the same rumors about him.
arc | 9:11 p.m. May 11, 2008
You have to remember that those 600 or so votes Jason got, including me, were
representing 600 or so neighborhoods of people that didn't want Chris back
there again. The majority of people in the 3rd district do not want Cannon back.
Is Jason the best choice, or do the democrats have someone good. I think Jason
will be good.
Yes, I had a hard time deciding between Leavitt or Jason, but Jason had workable ideas to start with and Leavitt didn't.
Yes, I had a hard time deciding between Leavitt or Jason, but Jason had workable ideas to start with and Leavitt didn't.
arc | 9:12 p.m. May 11, 2008
Jason made a mistake by using the flyer, even if Leavitt did make the mistake of
saying what he was quoted. It was obvious that Leavitt didn't feel the way
he was being quoted.
Leavitt made the biggest mistake by showing the video he did before his "speach". He has been light on substance, and heavy on show and the video didn't help compared to Jason actually saying what he was going to do was huge.
Leavitt didn't feel like Jason was the next best candidate. He said he approched Cannon to tell him he would throw his support to him. What I don't know is whose idea it was to tell the delegates this using tactics that were considered rude and illegal. That is why there was booing at that point.
Leavitt made the biggest mistake by showing the video he did before his "speach". He has been light on substance, and heavy on show and the video didn't help compared to Jason actually saying what he was going to do was huge.
Leavitt didn't feel like Jason was the next best candidate. He said he approched Cannon to tell him he would throw his support to him. What I don't know is whose idea it was to tell the delegates this using tactics that were considered rude and illegal. That is why there was booing at that point.
Rules should Rule | 9:13 p.m. May 11, 2008
I was very displeased by the Statesman Leavitt and the incumbent Cannon's
blatant disregard for the rules. Leavitt has every right to attempt to
encourage his supporters to vote for Cannon. His method to do so was wrong and
violated every trust he pledged to uphold with honor and dignity.
Cannon is implicated because he agreed to give Leavitt's staff the posters. Additionally, at least 1 of Cannon's campaign staff helped pass out fliers showing Leavitt's support of Cannon.
With this action, honor and trust was broken and the delegates showed their displeasure, not with the men themselves, but with their dishonorable actions.
Leavitt and Cannon could have taken the high road, but did not. Nevertheless, I thank all of those who had the courage to run and I encourage all to take the high road.
Finally, the delegates are not right wing, but rather true conservatives and well informed. The masses are not. They are sound bite driven.
Cannon is implicated because he agreed to give Leavitt's staff the posters. Additionally, at least 1 of Cannon's campaign staff helped pass out fliers showing Leavitt's support of Cannon.
With this action, honor and trust was broken and the delegates showed their displeasure, not with the men themselves, but with their dishonorable actions.
Leavitt and Cannon could have taken the high road, but did not. Nevertheless, I thank all of those who had the courage to run and I encourage all to take the high road.
Finally, the delegates are not right wing, but rather true conservatives and well informed. The masses are not. They are sound bite driven.
Why Did I Boo? | 10:35 p.m. May 11, 2008
I was a first-time delegate at the convention from the 1st Congressional
District. I stayed to watch the second and third round voting because it was
interesting, and great political drama too.
I was one of the voices that booed when the Leavitt supporters entered the arena waving their "Cannon" signs high in the air. I booed because the chair repeatedly called for them to put down their signs and stop campaigning in the arena. They flagrantly ignored the chair and continued their deliberate march up the stairs, with the "Cannon" signs still lofted high in the air. Then, Leavitt supporters hung a last-minute sign behind the main stage calling on Leavitt supporters to switch to Cannon! After the chair called for that sign to be removed, Cannon and Leavitt then purposely entered the arena together and began shaking hands with delegates, all while the chair implored that they stop campaigning in the arena!
I was so incensed at the despicable scene that I booed. It is likely that Chaffetz missed the 60% threshold only because Cannon and Leavitt broke the rules. I don't know Chaffetz, but I saw enough of Cannon to know I would never vote for him.
I was one of the voices that booed when the Leavitt supporters entered the arena waving their "Cannon" signs high in the air. I booed because the chair repeatedly called for them to put down their signs and stop campaigning in the arena. They flagrantly ignored the chair and continued their deliberate march up the stairs, with the "Cannon" signs still lofted high in the air. Then, Leavitt supporters hung a last-minute sign behind the main stage calling on Leavitt supporters to switch to Cannon! After the chair called for that sign to be removed, Cannon and Leavitt then purposely entered the arena together and began shaking hands with delegates, all while the chair implored that they stop campaigning in the arena!
I was so incensed at the despicable scene that I booed. It is likely that Chaffetz missed the 60% threshold only because Cannon and Leavitt broke the rules. I don't know Chaffetz, but I saw enough of Cannon to know I would never vote for him.
Samantha | 11:05 p.m. May 11, 2008
I agree with Unaffiliated voter, I mean come on. I don't like Cannon at
all, but as sad as it seems the delegates actually chose someone worse.
Chaffetz is a panderer. His speech was great because it was appealed to the
meat and potato issues of republicans and ripped on the governor, but honestly
he's ridiculous and his speech was so extreme it was scary- where are
practical solutions to our nations problems? He'd be a horrible
congressman, even worse than Cannon. It won't matter too much though,
Cannon will kill him in the primary. I'd never thought I'd say this
but go Cannon.
Ohh and Leavitt's kids (volunteers or whatever) were hecka gutsy to walk on the floor when they were booed. Chaffetz was a jerk who made a huge mistake, he needed Leavitt, to hand out a mailer is the same old school dirty political tricks that we would expect from Cannon but not someone running on change. It was dirty politics for Chaffetz, instead of inspiring, he cheating by not allowing his opponent a chance to respond and by throwing republicans under the bus. Reagan wouldn't have supported you. Run in your own district, chicken.
Ohh and Leavitt's kids (volunteers or whatever) were hecka gutsy to walk on the floor when they were booed. Chaffetz was a jerk who made a huge mistake, he needed Leavitt, to hand out a mailer is the same old school dirty political tricks that we would expect from Cannon but not someone running on change. It was dirty politics for Chaffetz, instead of inspiring, he cheating by not allowing his opponent a chance to respond and by throwing republicans under the bus. Reagan wouldn't have supported you. Run in your own district, chicken.
Samantha | 11:09 p.m. May 11, 2008
And before you Chaffetz wannabes claim that I'm a Cannon girl or whatever.
I don't know Cannon, I've met him. I was a State Delegate. I also
didn't and don't work with or for the Leavitts. I'm as unbiased,
true red republican as they come.
I was even elected as a delegate for change but yeah, even my precinct agreed that Chaffetz was the worst of the three choices. What a mess, Cannon for another two. Leavitt was a nice guy he didn't need to be smeared. And heck Chaffetz why didn't you run against Matheson?
I was even elected as a delegate for change but yeah, even my precinct agreed that Chaffetz was the worst of the three choices. What a mess, Cannon for another two. Leavitt was a nice guy he didn't need to be smeared. And heck Chaffetz why didn't you run against Matheson?
chris | 11:24 p.m. May 11, 2008
Bennett first ran in 1992 promising only 2 terms and now he wants a fourth term?
What has he done back there? Don't we trust young people anymore! Let
some 40 year old run---hopefully our state gets smart and starts asking
questions for our elected officials.
Question for Samantha | 2:18 a.m. May 12, 2008
Maybe you'll be willing to answer the question none of the other Leavitt
supporters will answer. Why is it inappropriate to distribute a flyer in which
you accurately quote someone's position, as stated the previous day on
tape, and name two witnesses who heard it?
Leavitt has not denied saying that he supports in-state tuition for illegals. A lot of people hold that position. He hasn't denied that it is his position. If that's his position, why is it dirty politics for another candidate to disagree with it? Don't delegates have a right to know how the candidates differ? Is that dirty politics?
I've heard Chaffetz speak a couple of times. In the second meeting, he was grilled about the differences between himself and David Leavitt. Every single point he made was issues-driven or based on a comparison of their professional qualifications. I think those things are relevant. Never once did he call Leavitt names or cast aspersions on his character as Leavitt has been doing to him.
What is the basis of these allegations? Does ANYONE know?
Leavitt has not denied saying that he supports in-state tuition for illegals. A lot of people hold that position. He hasn't denied that it is his position. If that's his position, why is it dirty politics for another candidate to disagree with it? Don't delegates have a right to know how the candidates differ? Is that dirty politics?
I've heard Chaffetz speak a couple of times. In the second meeting, he was grilled about the differences between himself and David Leavitt. Every single point he made was issues-driven or based on a comparison of their professional qualifications. I think those things are relevant. Never once did he call Leavitt names or cast aspersions on his character as Leavitt has been doing to him.
What is the basis of these allegations? Does ANYONE know?
Delegate disappointment | 5:56 a.m. May 12, 2008
The most disappointing thing is that there seems to have been too many delegates
who were so easily swayed by the emotion of the convention. I heard so many of
our delegates say that they would study out the issues and listen to each
candidate and make a decision based on that. What happened?
It is mud-slinging when one candidate states the position of the another candidate in a twisted light. For Chaffetz to send around a flyer stating what he says is Leavitt's position, twisting the facts to serve him, is mud-slinging.
I just can't believe how easily people are swayed by emotion! Have we become so weak minded? If Chaffetz is voted in, well, I guess the third district then deserves him.
Personally, I'm not really happy about some of the stances Cannon has taken either, but I don't want someone else who will stoop so low as Chaffitz has and be so hot headed. What will he do when in office? He will NEVER sway anyone in Washington with the way he approaches issues. Are we that desperate?
I don't want Cannon but I think Chaffitz is worse. Out of the frying pan into the fire!
It is mud-slinging when one candidate states the position of the another candidate in a twisted light. For Chaffetz to send around a flyer stating what he says is Leavitt's position, twisting the facts to serve him, is mud-slinging.
I just can't believe how easily people are swayed by emotion! Have we become so weak minded? If Chaffetz is voted in, well, I guess the third district then deserves him.
Personally, I'm not really happy about some of the stances Cannon has taken either, but I don't want someone else who will stoop so low as Chaffitz has and be so hot headed. What will he do when in office? He will NEVER sway anyone in Washington with the way he approaches issues. Are we that desperate?
I don't want Cannon but I think Chaffitz is worse. Out of the frying pan into the fire!
enough! | 7:12 a.m. May 12, 2008
Senority is not worth much when your party is in the minority. I think it is
time to change everyone in Washington. Certainly six terms for Cannon has been
plenty. If he hasn't been able to accomplish what he wanted to before now,
then he never will. Also 16 years for Bennett and 32 for Hatch are MORE than
enough! It really is time for a change!
rkps | 8:45 a.m. May 12, 2008
Chaffetz is an emarasment. Leavitt and Cannon were the ones with positive,
clean campaigns. Chaffetz spent most of his time in the mud. He was critical
of everything and everyone. Even the photos on campaign fliers of his opponents
were not spared his wrath. His constant negativity portrayed him as very
arrogant. He feels that he is obviously the only one with brains. I think it
is quite the contrary. It is amazing that while most of us have been doing jobs
and having a life the last two years he has been campaigning. Talk about
playing politics.
Annon | 12:21 p.m. May 12, 2008
I don't see the 'second district' issue as an issue- though it
seems to be all Cannon can pull out. He WAS in the 3rd district until the
gerrymandering and will again be in the 2nd district when we get our 4th
representitive in the near future. Chaffetz has not moved. The party has moved
the lines in a desperate attempt to beat Mattheson. None of that has to do with
Chaffetz.
The way the Republicans have drawn the lines for the districts is completely geographically nonsensical- and makes it very difficult for whomever represents Dist. 3 to serve all of their highly varied constituents.
Cannon has some supporters- but not passionate ones. I think the fact that Chaffetz has enough personal charisma to draw people who actually CARE about making our nation better and are willing to stick their necks out to do it speaks volumes. I'm a moderate republican and frequently vote democratic- and I still prefer Chaffetz to Cannon. We can have a proven loser or we can take a chance at getting someone better.
The way the Republicans have drawn the lines for the districts is completely geographically nonsensical- and makes it very difficult for whomever represents Dist. 3 to serve all of their highly varied constituents.
Cannon has some supporters- but not passionate ones. I think the fact that Chaffetz has enough personal charisma to draw people who actually CARE about making our nation better and are willing to stick their necks out to do it speaks volumes. I'm a moderate republican and frequently vote democratic- and I still prefer Chaffetz to Cannon. We can have a proven loser or we can take a chance at getting someone better.
Madden = not disappointed | 1:24 p.m. May 12, 2008
You say Chaffetz was "twisting the facts to serve him" - you are
wrong. He stated the facts, as they are, and did not misrepresent Leavitt's
positions. It is driving me nuts that accurately depicting your opponent's
differing views is being considered an attack. Crying over these attacks is
exactly the kind of sound-byte you are trying to use to sway the less informed
public.
Remember, we delegates at the convention were chosen as neighborhood reps, we are not militant or extreme as Cannon complains. How can you have the gall to say that 600 delegate reps shouldn't have major influence on politics? We are representatives or an area, just like 435 national reps sent to Congress. You can't have it both ways sir, this is a republic.
Remember, we delegates at the convention were chosen as neighborhood reps, we are not militant or extreme as Cannon complains. How can you have the gall to say that 600 delegate reps shouldn't have major influence on politics? We are representatives or an area, just like 435 national reps sent to Congress. You can't have it both ways sir, this is a republic.
Conservative | 4:43 p.m. May 12, 2008
Why can't we get rid of HATCH, BENNET and Cannon? These three stooges have
gone alone with the liberal agenda in Washington for the last 4 years.
Anonymous | 5:00 p.m. May 12, 2008
Good Jason Chaffetz lies...Or enter Truthaboutjason on blogspot search to find
the blog. I dont think desnews will post my last comment about a blog we are
posting about "The truth about Jason.
Check out the blog, make posts and help us prevent Jason from getting anywhere near DC.
Check out the blog, make posts and help us prevent Jason from getting anywhere near DC.
Chaffetz Pretty Boy | 1:14 p.m. May 13, 2008
Wasn't Chaffetz that pretty boy kicker at BYU that couldn't stand to
wear a football helmet because it would mess up his hair? He put it on long
enough to kick and pulled it off asap and went and primped in the mirror to make
sure he looked good.
Great alternative.. NOT!
Great alternative.. NOT!
I was There!!!! | 5:53 p.m. May 13, 2008
I was one of the many david leavitt supporters out on the floor, and I just have
to say that It was awsome hearing all of the boos from the Chaffetz supporters
with the mixture of applauses and whistles from the Cannan and Leavitt
supporters. I was ready for an all out brawl! It was so cool, you have to try it
sometime!
Excuse me... | 7:04 p.m. May 13, 2008
But saying what you want the audience to hear, Stewart, is NOT being a
representative. It is called being a panderer.
Ashamed to be a Utahn | 9:01 a.m. May 14, 2008
***Everything Chaffetz did... was based on Leavitt's own words***
IT WAS NOT BASED ON LEAVITT'S OWN WORDS! They were LIES! I've met the guy that spread those lies and he is as slimy as Chaffetz. I don't trust him as far as I can throw him!
***I booed because...***
Oh yeah, and let's talk about the booing. Did you know that the people were not only booing but swearing (the "F" word) at the children and throwing things at them! I mean come on! Where has human decency gone? Someone screamed at a twelve-year-old girl holding a Cannon sign "You're Leavitt scum!" It was truly barbaric! The people holding the sign were NOT told to leave because they were breaking the rules. They were told to leave because they were afraid something was gonna happen to the kids! Dan Lockheart, the State Party Chair, told the Leavitt team that his committee found that there were NO rules broken.
Get your facts straight!
IT WAS NOT BASED ON LEAVITT'S OWN WORDS! They were LIES! I've met the guy that spread those lies and he is as slimy as Chaffetz. I don't trust him as far as I can throw him!
***I booed because...***
Oh yeah, and let's talk about the booing. Did you know that the people were not only booing but swearing (the "F" word) at the children and throwing things at them! I mean come on! Where has human decency gone? Someone screamed at a twelve-year-old girl holding a Cannon sign "You're Leavitt scum!" It was truly barbaric! The people holding the sign were NOT told to leave because they were breaking the rules. They were told to leave because they were afraid something was gonna happen to the kids! Dan Lockheart, the State Party Chair, told the Leavitt team that his committee found that there were NO rules broken.
Get your facts straight!
RE: Ashamed | 2:45 p.m. May 14, 2008
Show us the lies. All you do is complain without giving facts. Bring the proof,
make a case, quit name calling without real info or you won't change
minds.
I was a delegate, I got the flyers, they were photocopies of Leavitt's own pamphlets with key sentences circled, left in context. If there were lies, I honestly do want to see the examples (as do others I am sure).
And I was there, I heard no swearing and saw no throwing or dangerous behavior. I'm no expert on the rules so won't argue the point there.
I was a delegate, I got the flyers, they were photocopies of Leavitt's own pamphlets with key sentences circled, left in context. If there were lies, I honestly do want to see the examples (as do others I am sure).
And I was there, I heard no swearing and saw no throwing or dangerous behavior. I'm no expert on the rules so won't argue the point there.
Agreed... | 3:24 p.m. May 14, 2008
Leavitt was found to have broken NO rules. Anyone reports that they did break
rules are simply and categorically false. It's sad people will condemn
Leavitt's position to endorse Cannon by saying that he broke rules...
Michelle | 4:55 p.m. May 14, 2008
I was at the convention and the chair, Stan Lockhart, from the podium and for
all the delegates to hear said the Leavitt people were breaking the rules and
needed to leave. At one point he even called out the name of one of the
campaign people to try and get the Leavitt campaign to stop and then had to
apologize for saying the wrong name.
Please quit calling all the delegates liars.
Please quit calling all the delegates liars.
Rules | 6:58 p.m. May 14, 2008
I dang near voted for Leavitt - and boy am I relieved I made the right decision
right at the end!
I asked about the rules. The rules say no signs may be "placed" in and around the staging area or arena. Leavitt the Lawyer and Lockhart the Lobbyist are now claiming this means there was no rules violation because the signs were not "placed" they were "paraded". It only violates the spirit of the law, not the letter. Aren't you glad we have lawyers and lobbyists?
However, earlier in the day, Leavitt's staffers tested this rule by parading around with Leavitt signs. They were told from the dais to leave. No one can say they didn't know their actions were wrong. They absolutely knew - and didn't care.
Not that I'm complaining. I think Leavitt's decision to show his true colors only helps Jason Chaffetz. It certainly made me want to volunteer!
I asked about the rules. The rules say no signs may be "placed" in and around the staging area or arena. Leavitt the Lawyer and Lockhart the Lobbyist are now claiming this means there was no rules violation because the signs were not "placed" they were "paraded". It only violates the spirit of the law, not the letter. Aren't you glad we have lawyers and lobbyists?
However, earlier in the day, Leavitt's staffers tested this rule by parading around with Leavitt signs. They were told from the dais to leave. No one can say they didn't know their actions were wrong. They absolutely knew - and didn't care.
Not that I'm complaining. I think Leavitt's decision to show his true colors only helps Jason Chaffetz. It certainly made me want to volunteer!
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As a delegate this fits Mr Chaeffetz's action very clearly. very dangerous territory. I also think it is very telling that his former employer, Governor Huntsman, is opposing him.