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ACLU weighs in on FLDS raid
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BH | 4:56 p.m. May 7, 2008
CPS must remove children when there is suspicion of abuse, not just when there
is "proof." They take the children and then investigate to see if
there is proof of abuse. This is obviously for the protection of children. Many
times when CPS fails to remove suspected abused children, the proof comes in the
form of a dead or injured child. In this case, it could come in the form of a
pregnant child.
I wonder if some of you are the same people who weep and wail and attend candlelight vigils for dead children that CPS failed to protect. Your public rebuke of CPS who is simply doing their job only increases the likelihood that CPS workers will err on the side of protecting suspected abusers in the future, leading to more abuse of children.
I wonder if some of you are the same people who weep and wail and attend candlelight vigils for dead children that CPS failed to protect. Your public rebuke of CPS who is simply doing their job only increases the likelihood that CPS workers will err on the side of protecting suspected abusers in the future, leading to more abuse of children.
Sokol | 5:02 p.m. May 7, 2008
As some of you say, they are child abusers, you
act just like the CPS do. These parents are
guilty until proven innocent. Not one person has
been convicted of any crime, but 464 children
have been stolen by a government. Furthermore,
we must stop allowing the government and judges
so must discretion and immunity to remove children,
as the result of false allegations, fabrications
and innuendos. The time to take back our children
has come. WHEN HAS ANY CPS OFFICIAL EVER REMOVED
CHILDREN FROM THE HOME OF A WEALTHY PERSON OR ONE
POLITICALLY CONNECTED. It has not happened in New
Mexico where I live..and I am sure not Texas.
The fact is that religious bigotry and overreaction
caused the destruction of the constitutional rights
of hundreds of people, in yes an odd sect of religion. El Dorado Texas is my Boston Tea Party.
act just like the CPS do. These parents are
guilty until proven innocent. Not one person has
been convicted of any crime, but 464 children
have been stolen by a government. Furthermore,
we must stop allowing the government and judges
so must discretion and immunity to remove children,
as the result of false allegations, fabrications
and innuendos. The time to take back our children
has come. WHEN HAS ANY CPS OFFICIAL EVER REMOVED
CHILDREN FROM THE HOME OF A WEALTHY PERSON OR ONE
POLITICALLY CONNECTED. It has not happened in New
Mexico where I live..and I am sure not Texas.
The fact is that religious bigotry and overreaction
caused the destruction of the constitutional rights
of hundreds of people, in yes an odd sect of religion. El Dorado Texas is my Boston Tea Party.
Comments continue below
They're right | 5:16 p.m. May 7, 2008
Even I can't believe that I agree with the ACLU here.
It is chilling to see how "fast-n-furious" the gov't broke apart all these families. The actions are like "shoot first, ask questions later", meaning they rounded everybody up first, separated everybody, and later will "figure stuff out" in court.
Rounding up hundreds of people, cutting off contact of parents and children --- is Nazi-like. Even if there are "tons" of pedophiles there, there are laws, precedents, and procedures for going after the perpetrators.
It is chilling to see how "fast-n-furious" the gov't broke apart all these families. The actions are like "shoot first, ask questions later", meaning they rounded everybody up first, separated everybody, and later will "figure stuff out" in court.
Rounding up hundreds of people, cutting off contact of parents and children --- is Nazi-like. Even if there are "tons" of pedophiles there, there are laws, precedents, and procedures for going after the perpetrators.
About Time | 5:28 p.m. May 7, 2008
It's about stinkin' time the ACLU weighed in on this. If this had
been G&L's or eviro's, the ACLU would have been on it before the
door closed on the first bus load of kids out of there.
By all means, stop the abuse. But I don't believe it's neccessary to kidnap nearly 500 kids in the process.
By all means, stop the abuse. But I don't believe it's neccessary to kidnap nearly 500 kids in the process.
Re: They're right | 5:37 p.m. May 7, 2008
They're right | 5:16 p.m. May 7, 2008 You should read the post by:BH | 4:56
p.m. May 7, 2008
Sound reasoning based on fact and the law. If you suspect child abuse you should "shoot first". Children cannot defend themselves.
The children experienced ripping apart within their own comunity when the women and children were reassigned.
Sound reasoning based on fact and the law. If you suspect child abuse you should "shoot first". Children cannot defend themselves.
The children experienced ripping apart within their own comunity when the women and children were reassigned.
Eric | 5:45 p.m. May 7, 2008
Possibly you should find out what the ACLU REALLY does instead of pumping out
more rumor and half-truths.
The ACLU is the main protector of our Constitutional Rights that we have.
Weather you like it or not, The ACLU only takes cases that somehow infringe on civil or constitutional rights.
In the past, I thought the ACLU was the bad guy untill I dug into the cases they handle and the reasons they have for things they do.
If you can do the research with an open mind, take a look.
They often represent the little guy but that doesn't make the paper. The media controls what you know or don't know unless you dig for the truth. It's strange, the media could not be as free as they are without the ACLU but the media is first to take a whack. There have been many efforts to kill freedom of the press.
The ACLU is the main protector of our Constitutional Rights that we have.
Weather you like it or not, The ACLU only takes cases that somehow infringe on civil or constitutional rights.
In the past, I thought the ACLU was the bad guy untill I dug into the cases they handle and the reasons they have for things they do.
If you can do the research with an open mind, take a look.
They often represent the little guy but that doesn't make the paper. The media controls what you know or don't know unless you dig for the truth. It's strange, the media could not be as free as they are without the ACLU but the media is first to take a whack. There have been many efforts to kill freedom of the press.
JoeMama | 5:48 p.m. May 7, 2008
The ACLU will continue to "monitor" as they have been for the past
several weeks. No action.
re: getreal | 6:09 p.m. May 7, 2008
"You all must have some insight that the rest of us do not have. You are
assuming that all CPS/LE has is what the news tells us".
CPS doesn't have anything more than the news tells us, and all the that the news can tell us are some antagonistic peoples opinions who don't really know anything other than the difference between beans and butter-milk. The State of Texas hasn't done one legal thing yet where the FLDS are involved. the only reason why they are carrying this thing on is because they made a mistake adn now they have to try and cover their backs.
Get real!
CPS doesn't have anything more than the news tells us, and all the that the news can tell us are some antagonistic peoples opinions who don't really know anything other than the difference between beans and butter-milk. The State of Texas hasn't done one legal thing yet where the FLDS are involved. the only reason why they are carrying this thing on is because they made a mistake adn now they have to try and cover their backs.
Get real!
Anonymous | 6:19 p.m. May 7, 2008
Flora Jessop is brain washing a news crew right now in Hildale, let's hope
it's not Deseret. I'm an FLDS girl and I'm thinking about going
out there with a "STOMP OUT MONOGAMY" sign, or maybe- "SEND FLORA
HOME" if the pitiful soul has a home.
Texas has made a big mistake, that's my family and relatives that their messing with. Hopefully ACLU will have the back bone to stand up for what is right even if Texas doesn't.
Thanks to all who are helping reunite our children with their parents, God bless you!
Texas has made a big mistake, that's my family and relatives that their messing with. Hopefully ACLU will have the back bone to stand up for what is right even if Texas doesn't.
Thanks to all who are helping reunite our children with their parents, God bless you!
Anonymous | 6:26 p.m. May 7, 2008
GOOD FOR THE ACLU!
It looks to me like the next round of action is all about the upcoming custody hearings. Is the ACLU prepared to intervene if for example TX CPS tries to force parents to completely abandon their faith as a condition of getting their kids back?
I actually would support some measures to help YFZ residents learn to interact effectively with the good and bad of the outside world. I also support efforts to identify and prosecute specific crimes of abuse. However, I think it could be entirely possible to address many problems of the curreng FLDS community largely within the terms of their own history.
Why for instance are women in the historical pictures from the SHort Creek raids show in skirts of mid-calf langht with bare legs and nothing but booy socks? What has changed about the sect or the world to mandate the much stricter dress codes now?
If, hypothetically, one problem is Warren Jeffs going around the bend, can the sect draw lessons from other points in their history where a prophet might have also gone around the bend?
It looks to me like the next round of action is all about the upcoming custody hearings. Is the ACLU prepared to intervene if for example TX CPS tries to force parents to completely abandon their faith as a condition of getting their kids back?
I actually would support some measures to help YFZ residents learn to interact effectively with the good and bad of the outside world. I also support efforts to identify and prosecute specific crimes of abuse. However, I think it could be entirely possible to address many problems of the curreng FLDS community largely within the terms of their own history.
Why for instance are women in the historical pictures from the SHort Creek raids show in skirts of mid-calf langht with bare legs and nothing but booy socks? What has changed about the sect or the world to mandate the much stricter dress codes now?
If, hypothetically, one problem is Warren Jeffs going around the bend, can the sect draw lessons from other points in their history where a prophet might have also gone around the bend?
Mike | 6:34 p.m. May 7, 2008
The ACLU doesn't know when and how to keep quiet--they've always got
somebody to criticize. They couldn't make a positive statement to save
thier lives--or these kids' lives, for that matter. Where were they when
all of these children were forced to have babies underage--or in the cases of
the boys, forced out of the sect if they didn't fit in ?
Red Texan | 6:47 p.m. May 7, 2008
Where was the ACLU? Probably defending gay sex with minors and gay adoption.
They don't care about kids, and apparently they don't care about
women, either. How anyone, much less the ACLU can look at these women and see
anything but Stepford wives on steriods is beyond me. These zombied out women
need liberation, deprogramming and support. Haven't they noticed that they
men have the pricey lawyers and the women have legal aid???? Where are the women
of the ACLU????
wrz | 6:48 p.m. May 7, 2008
>>I wonder if some of you are the same people who weep and wail and attend
candlelight vigils for dead children that CPS failed to protect.<<
What I wonder is, do you weep for the children who are taken by CPS and placed in foster care only to be abused, raped, turned out on the streets, and die with drug overdoses. The rate if high.
What I wonder is, do you weep for the children who are taken by CPS and placed in foster care only to be abused, raped, turned out on the streets, and die with drug overdoses. The rate if high.
Kudos | 7:05 p.m. May 7, 2008
It is a strange day indeed when I agree with the ACLU. But, hey, when its
positive, encourage it!
Anonymous | 7:10 p.m. May 7, 2008
I'm shocked to say that the ACLU actually is on the right track for once!
WOW!
Ray Dunbar | 7:18 p.m. May 7, 2008
KSL has a better comment board. I know you will remove this comment, but
perhaps you could find out what software they are using. It is much more
interactive.
Ronald A. Young | 7:28 p.m. May 7, 2008
Not sure I can use the word I want to use here but I do not like the ACLU. I
really do not care what they think. With the ACLU and me its case by case Issue
by Issue and their approach or stand on an issue. God no way, Abortion No Way,
Some Civil Rights issues okay, depending on the issue and their approach to the
issue. If it will get the issue to the same end, then sometimes they are a means
to the end. When ever you get in bed with them, when you get out, you must
shower with strong soap and wash the sheets with bleach and disinfect the room.
They are Vile but they can be used sometimes for the greater good. Sometimes
they are right, sometimes they are right but for the wrong reasons. I am going
to donate to them over an Issue in Hawaii concerning transporting Homeless Kids
living on the Beach to School. Our agendas are somewhat different but supporting
them might get the end result I want. They can be a useful tool, just know what
you are getting into.
spineless | 7:31 p.m. May 7, 2008
Well at least the ACLU have a backbone, thats more than we can say about all of
our Politicians. Given the choice is winning more important than being right?
misty | 7:38 p.m. May 7, 2008
give the kids back! im so sick of this...do something..aclu...
DeLaval Milker | 7:45 p.m. May 7, 2008
One thing i learned from reading previous posts over the past few years is that
the ACLU is always dead wrong on any given issue. Nonetheless, process is
process.
Religion, however, can never be sufficient excuse to run a private prison camp.
Religion, however, can never be sufficient excuse to run a private prison camp.
Brooke | 7:47 p.m. May 7, 2008
ACLU is just grandstanding. They will do nothing. My neighbor is said to
commit a crime by way of a hoax phone call. The kings soldiers come into my
neighborhood and remove everyone under 18 and take them away. Nearly 500 people
from their families are arrested and put into concentration camps. This is all
based on a hoax. Where is the outrage in America???? Or are we in 1939
Germany??? Where is the evidence of child abuse?? Please call or write your
congressmen to express your opinions!!!! We need to stop these government
officials from their unrighteous acts against parents who practice their Old
Testament beliefs. Modesto, Ca.
Surprised? | 7:48 p.m. May 7, 2008
I was curious to see how the ACLU would come out on this issue -- in favor of
the alleged victims or in favor of the accused criminals. Now the ACLU has
spoken, not very clearly, mind you, but still it can be divined that the
group's first concern is the accused and the second concern is the victim.
That's always been the case with the ACLU, so this should not be a surprise
to anybody. The ACLU could not very well excoriate polygamists and then defend
swingers, pornographers, fornicators, sodomists, homosexuals and lesbians.
Thomas | 7:57 p.m. May 7, 2008
BH --
"In this case, [proof of abuse] could come in the form of a pregnant child."
Unless I missed something in biology class, this argument doesn't work very well to justify removing the FLDS *boys* from their parents.
"In this case, [proof of abuse] could come in the form of a pregnant child."
Unless I missed something in biology class, this argument doesn't work very well to justify removing the FLDS *boys* from their parents.
Freedom for some | 8:13 p.m. May 7, 2008
I was trying to remember the Attorney General of the United States under
Clinton. I think she was from Texas. Janet Reno. I remember when she testified
to Congress I think. She quoted her mother saying to her "That a
girl"! when she told her the religous group in Waco had been shot or
otherwise killed.
I though this was interesting about Texas justice.
I though this was interesting about Texas justice.
prayforTexasCPS | 8:19 p.m. May 7, 2008
I'm worried for the FDLS children and all the children in Texas. CPS did
not have a great case for stealing all the children. I do not put it past the
state to brainwash the kids into destifying against their parents.They have done
this on an individual level in the past. I'm afraid if the state is
successful there will be other mass round ups of children in Texas.
Raymond Takashi Swenson | 8:22 p.m. May 7, 2008
The ACLU has, in this specific case, stated what I think is the consensus of
most attorneys on the matter. The very minimum of constitutional rights is to
have a fair hearing in which the evidence presented by the State can be
cross-examined and the person targeted by the State can present his or her own
case and have it placed on the record and fully heard.
The mass court proceeding in this case was a blatant denial of due process of law and equal treatment under the law guaranteed by the 14th Amendment. Judge Walther has no idea the names of the children, what each one looks like, or the names of the parents and what they look like. They were all treated in an undifferentiated fashion, en masse. The Texas courts should have called in a bunch of judges from around the state, incluidng retired judges, and had them hear the case for each family in an individual hearing from the beginning.
The only basis for taking babies from their nursing mothers was an objectionable religious teaching with no imminent harm for ten or 15 years. Ripping babies from mothers is immediate abuse far greater.
The mass court proceeding in this case was a blatant denial of due process of law and equal treatment under the law guaranteed by the 14th Amendment. Judge Walther has no idea the names of the children, what each one looks like, or the names of the parents and what they look like. They were all treated in an undifferentiated fashion, en masse. The Texas courts should have called in a bunch of judges from around the state, incluidng retired judges, and had them hear the case for each family in an individual hearing from the beginning.
The only basis for taking babies from their nursing mothers was an objectionable religious teaching with no imminent harm for ten or 15 years. Ripping babies from mothers is immediate abuse far greater.
Sick and tired of FLDS | 9:24 p.m. May 7, 2008
I was going to comment but what's the use. I'd just be repeating
myself. I am tire of the FLDS cultists. Hope authorities move on this soon...
ACLU or whatever!
Not LDS or FLDS but loving dad | 9:30 p.m. May 7, 2008
Let's stop the abuse of children by the CPS in Texas! Encourage CPS to
protect the few underage females that might be subject to underage and illegal
marriage, but also to let all of the other captive children go, especially the
boys, girls who have married at the texas legal age, monogamous married couples,
and foreign nationals. Reunite ALL nursing babies with their mothers even if
they are still to be held in custody. CPS should be thoroughly ashamed about
taking the Downs syndrome child from his mother. If somebody came after my kids
with or without due process you'd better believe I'd go to great
lengths to thwart the attempt. OF COURSE the mothers weren't forthcoming
about ages and names while heavily armed men stormed in to whisk their children
away! I want to see the "proof" of how many children were forced to
get married against their will. I suspect there may be some, but that is no
excuse to punish the innocent majority!
deb | 9:38 p.m. May 7, 2008
Is anyone else here SICK of hearing the name FLORA JESSOP and CAROLYN JESSOP?
There are JUST AS MANY ex FLDS members who have spoken out saying their lives
were NOT like that while members. Nobody cares to listen to them, they have as
much inside knowledge as the ones with an ax to grind! Basically some MAY be at
fault not ALL! I praise GOD that the ACLU is getting involved, because as we all
sit here and bicker those families still remain apart and those precious
children ARE being traumatized without their mothers, some may NEVER recover
even after they are returned.I pray for the families. And did noone read that
the girls themselves said they were NOT FORCED to marry? And from what I've
read they WERE NOT married to 50 year old men.If , that is their truly deeply
held belief and they are answering to GOD, are they wrong? Joseph was much older
than Mary!!! And it is COMMON everywhere around the world! This is religious
persecution, PLAIN AND SIMPLE!
Matt Connelly | 9:47 p.m. May 7, 2008
I rarely agree that the ACLU acts in good taste. But this is one of those issues
on which they are RIGHT! The Texas government has WAY overstepped their bounds
and violated due process in an obvious and inexcusable manner. I'm glad to
see the ACLU using their clout to oppose the improper and illegal treatment of
the FLDS people.
Anonymous | 10:01 p.m. May 7, 2008
Is it just me of does it sound like the ACLU is semi reluctant to fight for
these specific liberties. "Ahh, do we have to." We all know how they
feel about religion.
Eye Dee Ten Tee | 10:08 p.m. May 7, 2008
Basically, THE ACLU is watching to see what happens. Big whoop. Are we supposed
to be impressed? The purpose (not puropse) of THE ACLU is to stand behind every
American who agrees with their biased interpretation of the bill of rights, or
who can be of financial or political benefit to THE ACLU.
Red Texan | 10:44 p.m. May 7, 2008
Sokol, just stay in NM. You are too ignorant to be a Texan. HELLO, the FLDS
folks ARE wealthy!!!
This is from the Houston Chronicle: The market value of Yearning for Zion Ranch exceeds $21 million � with the approximately 80,000-square-foot temple valued at $8.7 million, according to the county tax appraiser. One of the county's biggest taxpayers, the sect paid last year's $424,000 bill on time.
So, there you have it, CPS just took 463 kids away from rich people in Texas. Must have been really, really bad for them to do that.
Main message here: Plygs and child abusers should not mess with Texas.
This is from the Houston Chronicle: The market value of Yearning for Zion Ranch exceeds $21 million � with the approximately 80,000-square-foot temple valued at $8.7 million, according to the county tax appraiser. One of the county's biggest taxpayers, the sect paid last year's $424,000 bill on time.
So, there you have it, CPS just took 463 kids away from rich people in Texas. Must have been really, really bad for them to do that.
Main message here: Plygs and child abusers should not mess with Texas.
Foster Child | 10:49 p.m. May 7, 2008
Growing up in a foster home was more of an abuse than if I was left with my
parent. And as a child
I had the choice, of course that choice was controlled by the state. Either do what we say or do what we say. It is such a joke that I can hardly beleive it but it is Texas. In the time of Bush
in the land of the Patriot (act) we can expect many more criminal acts from our elected officials.
Time to clean house. The FLDS are living there beliefs. Many African tribs do the same. Yes the ones on national geographic. Do we call them crininal or just a little backward.
Sexual abuse takes many forms. I would not put it past any man in a given circumstance to take atvantage of a young girl, hey where is Bill Clinton
? we could get his opinion.
Those children were growing up in a enviroment of love and adherance to a religious doctrine. Can we fault the children. They need to be with there parents. More trauma is done by the State of Teaxs
than all the parents would ever do.
This WILL NOT STAND
I had the choice, of course that choice was controlled by the state. Either do what we say or do what we say. It is such a joke that I can hardly beleive it but it is Texas. In the time of Bush
in the land of the Patriot (act) we can expect many more criminal acts from our elected officials.
Time to clean house. The FLDS are living there beliefs. Many African tribs do the same. Yes the ones on national geographic. Do we call them crininal or just a little backward.
Sexual abuse takes many forms. I would not put it past any man in a given circumstance to take atvantage of a young girl, hey where is Bill Clinton
? we could get his opinion.
Those children were growing up in a enviroment of love and adherance to a religious doctrine. Can we fault the children. They need to be with there parents. More trauma is done by the State of Teaxs
than all the parents would ever do.
This WILL NOT STAND
Anonymous | 8:44 a.m. May 8, 2008
You guys are so awesome at second guessing what has happened. What should Texas
have done? Nothing? Like the other states that just allow this abuse to
continue? Easy for you to sit back and make judgements and do NOTHING for those
in society who can't defend themselves. Most of your "judgements"
are based on little more than opinion and what you have heard on the news. You
have no idea what those "evil" Texas CPS workers do everyday. Oh, and
yeah for the ACLU, the guys that defend child porn rights! Go Texas. You are my
hero.
Proud Texas | 9:10 p.m. May 9, 2008
I find it unsettling, yet very revealing that nearly all of the comments in this
Utah/LDS newspaper think these children should not have been removed from this
horrible haven for sexually deviant scumbags. In other forums, there are some
who think the CPS action was wrong, but by far the comments are in favor of
rescuing the children.
CPS has a legal responsibility to remove children from situations where they are being abused, or AT RISK of abuse. With outcries of sexual abuse by young boys and girls, young girls in their early teens with 2-3 children, broken bones in very young children, no information provided by the parents, etc., how on earth could you believe they were not justified in removing them?
We protect our children in Texas.
CPS has a legal responsibility to remove children from situations where they are being abused, or AT RISK of abuse. With outcries of sexual abuse by young boys and girls, young girls in their early teens with 2-3 children, broken bones in very young children, no information provided by the parents, etc., how on earth could you believe they were not justified in removing them?
We protect our children in Texas.
Anonymous | 8:09 a.m. May 11, 2008
Proud Texan, I find it funny that you are so ignorant of the facts. There have
not been any claims filed or proof of any abuse and as far as the 8.9% of
children with broken bones is small in comparison to the national average. By
protecting children do you mean putting them in foster care where they have a
70% chance of going homeless or ending up in jail? There also has been claims
made that it is due to the harmfull belief system of the FLDS. What about the
first amendment, freedom of religion, you can prosecute abuse but not a belief.
Texas has broken so many laws and the ACLU is wise to make a statement. I
wouldn't be so proud of Texas if I were you.
Pretty Funny Position ACLU | 8:34 a.m. May 11, 2008
Well, this takes the cake. The ACLU articluated an opinion that positions them
on both sides of this debate. If the state of Texas is vidicated by their
actions, the ACLU can point to dozens of statements in this opinion that
supports what the state of Texas did, and if Texas officials lose their cases in
court, the ACLU can toot their horn as being right about the abuse of process. I
always knew they were a gutless bunch of goons, but now they have really shown
their own lunacy. GO TEXAS! I HAVE SERIOUS CONCERNS ABOUT THE ACLU. Have they
ever cared about that? NO. So I don't give a huey about this sorry excuse
for an organization. They need to share the podium with Al Sharpton while
he's avoiding payment of his taxes.
Hey Sokol | 10:20 a.m. May 11, 2008
I called CPS on a wealthy brother in law and sister, as did a Bishop, a doctor,
and a teacher...all different occurrences. One CPS worker commented they they
had "never been in such a large home before." There was idle chit
chat and that was about it. One event was a broken leg of a very young child
with the claim that he was being roughhoused and must have fallen incorrectly.
The E.R. doctor didn't buy it called CPS and nothing. Another event was a
burned hand, purposefully placed over a hot fire for "not watching another
child well enough." You are correct, nothing happens when the people are
wealthy or appear wealthy. All of the children are adults and most are seeking
counseling to overcome post Traumatic Stress Disorder, depression, bipolar, and
other disorders related to severe abuse.
Is there abuse at the compound? Yes, but likely at no different rate than out on the outside. Invade my neighborhood and you will find abuse I am sure.
Is there abuse at the compound? Yes, but likely at no different rate than out on the outside. Invade my neighborhood and you will find abuse I am sure.
Polygamy | 10:22 a.m. May 11, 2008
There is no need to discuss the issue of polygamy since none of the FLDS
participate in LEGAL polygamy instead only Spiritual Polygamy.
Hey Proud Texan | 10:26 a.m. May 11, 2008
There is no proof of sexual "deviance." There is no evidence, per the
flds records of underage marriage.Heck there were no legal marriages by the FLDS
is all of Texas! Many of the spiritual marriages are with those close to the
age of both parties. Of special note is that not all are even spiritual
polygamy but monogamy. But those facts don't incite fear, violence, or
actually much of a reaction at all so we need to ignore that, right? Ah pesky
facts.
John | 2:57 p.m. May 12, 2008
The ACLU only takes a passionate interest when the government goes after (or is
perceived to be going after)politically correct, liberal progressives. As a
religous group, the FLDS only going to get token assistance from the ACLU.
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- Hall's pain reflects self-betrayal316
- Utes won't respond to Hall257
- BYU is champion of the state140
- Man trapped in Nutty Putty cave dies121
- Cave to be sealed with body inside120
- Religion in politics is tiresome110
Live 'Twittologue' Dec. 2, 4:00 p.m. with Jason Chaffetz. Click for more.
I wanted to tell them not to go. I dropped subtle hints. "My money is on...
When I was a kid, I worshipped my grandpa. He was undoubtedly my hero....
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There are some games I love not on your list. Arkham Asylum for one.
Our parents made my brothers help kill and clean our rabbits before we ate...
Why would you keep it open? I would understand if there was a lot of amazing...
The government will run our health care well? Read Reader's Digest, November...
TCU stomped on the MWC so they are naturally ready to crush Florida, Alabama...
could you understand Dave Locke any more than my mom does and she is not even...
Attending the ND/BYU game 3 years ago in south bend, a couple of things stuck...
I missed the game, actually i heard a little bit of Locke on the radio (man...
quotes were good: Article was dumb and unnecessary.
I believe the art depicting Joseph looking at the plates may possibly be...
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I'm sure the ACLU has already been filing briefs in support as is their practice.
In fact, before the first week of this Texas-sized fiasco was over, there were already 35 habeas corpus briefs filed from various groups all across the country in support of releasing the children and VERY anti-Texas Nazis.
I'm sure those habea corpus briefs now number in the MANY HUNDREDS!