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LDS teens injured in Arizona attack

Hate crime? Surely you jest. Now if it was a Baptist or a Catholic or gay or anything else, it would be a hate crime. But violence and church burnings against the Mormon church are not quite yet considered .... uhhhhh....hate crimes. Yeah..that's the wording. There. I said it.

I'm not sure of the point Mesa is trying to make, however violence brought upon a person(s) because of race or religion in anyway qualifies. Bullying and intolerance is an ugly problem facing our supposed civilized society.

I'll bet the Hate Crime wording was used due to the higher profile FLDS situation and the common misconception that FLDS = LDS.

Personally I don't support the concept of "hate crime" since the action is what is criminal not the motive. To treat it otherwise is to advocate thought police. Whether the kids committed assault because they were LDS, or because they were wearing Lakers tee shirts, doesn't really matter. The crime was assault.

Having said that; this is probably fallout from the unabashed religious bigotry that was openly displayed, and not repudiated, during the Romney candidacy. The same bigotry was then further exercised in the YFZ Ranch raid. Yes, they are two completely separate religions. The trouble is bigots don�t tend to be very quick on the uptake regarding differences in the objects of their bigotry.

Being a bigot shouldn�t be criminal; doing something illegal based on your bigotry is criminal.

I sure hope Mesa is being sarcastic.

Mathew -

You are so right. Punish actions not thoughts or beliefs.

Hate Crime laws are silly and make dangerous precedents.

There are many who still think it socially acceptable to be malicious to a person according to their faith. History repeats itself. Since the earliest records, nations have been supressed because of their faith. In our society it is social extremism. The act of ganging up against that which we do not understand or fear. (media bias is the worst offender). How many muslims are peace loving people but because of the extremists, the rest suffer. How many people hear about mormons from their preachers, friends, associates and pass on stinging and unsubstantiated rumors, and yet never really find out what most mormons truly believe? Many nay sayers and antagonists don't want to see anything other than what they want to see. Many people I meet, find that I am very nice and friendly. They find me good company to be around. Many of those, when they find out I am mormon, change their demeanor. Why? am I a different person than I was before they knew? African-americans claim there is racism and bias raging in our community...in this, I add bigotry. Any way you cut it, many don't think so unitl it happens to you.

"Personally I don't support the concept of "hate crime" since the action is what is criminal not the motive."

Sometimes the motive is the ONLY difference between a crime and an innocent act.

I agree with Matthew about the hate crime concept. A crime is a crime. I've heard expressed the idea that any crime is an act of hate or disrespect. I don't like the idea of focusing on the thought behind an act. It seems like a thought or intent is sometimes punished more than a criminal act. This hate crime concept is pushed too far in that people get punished for non-criminal acts just because of their opinions. In France last week a well-known woman was facing the possibility of jail or prison for a couple years because she criticized someone or something. There is nothing criminal in that.

I fear that condemning sin is labeled as a hate crime sometimes or could be soon. If I condemn something, I am in no way encouraging any criminal behavior. Nor am I telling someone else that they should harm someone who is committing the sin. I am saying something is wrong and shouldn't be facing prosecution for that.

Let the persecution begin. I think you are going to see more of this in the future. a lot of people out there think LDS and FLDS are the same thing. More people are going to attack Mormons in the future.

Actually the story yesterday, as reported by the East Valley Tribune which is published in Mesa, AZ, indicated the two youth sporting the Swastikas on their wrists approached the other two and asked them if they were "Mormon". When they repied in the affirmitive the attack began. I think a reasonable person would conclude that the attack was motivated by religious inference, which, by definition, would constitute a "hate crime". The report also indicated that the police are continuing to investigate ---- I would hope so!

I just don't see why people have to get violent when they have a problem with someone. Why do people always want to make someone suffer when they don't like what someone does? Everyone has the right to do what they want as long as it doesn't hurt another. Why do we live in this country anyways? WE want the freedom to do things we want. But with this comes the responsiblity of respecting others. I guess my point is that we shouldn't care what others do. Cause if you don't care about them, they will leave you alone. Don't push your beliefs on someone. Just worry about yourself, and all will be ok.

Murder 1, 2, 3...
Pre-meditated murder
Manslaughter
Homicide
Killing an unborn child (viable not yet born)
Self-defense
Vehicular homicide


ALL of these crimes are judged and sentenced based on intent (for those who are slower... the THOUHGT that happens before and/or during the act of ending a life).

The intent of assault can be a defense if the thoughts are the �right� ones.
I would suggest you think before you speak/type but then you would be held to a higher degree of responsibility for what you say/write.

The crime is absolutely what should be punished. As diversity grows and differences cause tension in our society, every simple assault will become a hate crime under the over-expansive definitions employed in our penal codes.
Everyone deserves protection under the law regardless if you skin is a different color, your religion is not main stream, or your belief systems are skewed.
As for "just wondering..." we should care what other people do. Our society is built on ideas that need to be voiced and challenged, just not with fists.

Yes, this is just an assumption - but kids like this would probably take the chance to assault anyone. I am guessing they have some simmering hatred just for Mormons and treat everyone else with respect and dignity. It just so happens they got caught this time.

I meant to say these kind of kids probably DON'T just have it out for Mormons. Kids like this will take the chance to do this kind of think any chance they get. I imagine them saying hey are you - black, Jew, Muslim, etc etc. Let's be careful not to make this a return to Nauvoo (persecution complex) anymore than we already have this past year. I've really seen a rise in this "the world is against us" attitude over several months.

Great post.

And sometimes the intent, makes the action not a crime at all.

Occassionally, people are actually killed by someone who is just trying to help them.

Hate crime = Affirmative action
It's all about being politically correct these days.

I would say that "intent" makes all the difference. As a mother, motive is probably THE most important factor in determining if and how a child is punished. Seems like it should be the same in society.

For those of you attempting to distinguish between intent, action and crime, many crimes have more to do with intent than with any injury or "crime" committed against an individual. Take assault, for instance. To commit a common law assault, the perpetrator need not even arouse a sense of an immediate threat of harm in the victim. Rather, all that matters is that the perpetrator of the assault have 1) the intent to (a) inflict harm or (b) attempt to inflict harm, 2) the apparent ability to carry out such harm and 3) an attempt to inflict the harm. The key here is the intent. The only way to gauge the criminality of an action is to look beyond the actual action and determine the underlying motivation for taking the action. Thus, intentionally inflicting harm on another human being by targeting individuals of a certain race, sex, religion or otherwise shows a heightened degree of depravity on the part of the individual and should be punished commensurately.