Reader comments
Legal experts say what FLDS can do now is cooperate

Finally, a article that might help all those who have been screaming for the head of Texas CPS to understand that every step taken was legal, and legally required of CPS.

Thank goodness the kids are out of the religious prison.

Cassell is quoted as saying "The government doesn't always have to be right with the search warrant, it just has to be reasonable," while Greg Skordas says that "as long as law enforcement is acting on "good faith" that the information they are acting on is correct, the warrant is valid."

And who decides that law enforcement was acting in good faith when acting on a warrant? It's judges who have a vested interest in issuance of warrants.

Cassell also said "They have to show probable cause to be pulling up fish, but if they're looking for a bass and they find a salmon, they don't have to throw the salmon back." Isn't it great that men like Cassell become judges and make such idiotic rulings?

His argument is that the police can get a warrant based on false information and so long as their a judge like Cassell rules that they acted in good faith it is okay since he issued it as a fishing expedition. This judge in Texas knew the call was bogus and issued the warrant anyways knowing they could claim they were acting in good faith. I want this power to rule I'm right too.

This legal expert is exactly right assuming that the appeals court agrees with the district court.

I agree with the actions taken by the State of Texas, however, it would be wonderful for the FLDS children if the adults could make the changes required by CPS sooner than later in order to regain custody as quickly as possible.

Yesterday, I wrote the FLDS parents using the E-mail on their website and I urged them to do exactly what this legal expert recommends which is to cooperate.

I also suggested that the FLDS parents discuss with their Texas attorneys the changes CPS will likely require in order to regain their children and to start making these changes.

Someone needs to send this article to the FLDS parents. I am hopeful that they will be able to cooperate with CPS. In the initial stages of the investigation they were presented with some lessons on what happens when they don't cooperate. I'm not sure they understood those lessons. By now, they should all be well-represented and hopefully their attorneys are getting through to them.

I understand completely that CPS needs to protect children, but their powers to skirt or ignore the law...or in most cases have the law rewritten to give them powers to remove children on their "guesses" without having "proof" before hand should not allowed. In almost all cases of "crimes", it is innocent until proven guilty. In CPS cases it is guilty until YOU can prove your innocence... and CPS decides what is acceptable evidence or not.

And before everyone jumps to the conclusion I have had run-ins with CPS. I have not, but I have worked with CASA and have seen the misuse of their "powers".

When Your child is ripped from you because someone wants to cause you trouble and makes a bogus report to CPS. YOU should cooperate fully with them? I would like to see YOU submit to this without resorting to violence! God Bless those parents for their example of Christ like forgivness.

Interesting that the term "train left the station" was used. Reminds me of another oppressive government that used trains in their persecution of a religious group.

Can the FLDS change to the point that they will no longer exist? I have the feeling that we're going to go through this process exhaustingly slow with every step a huge battle. A step towards ending child brides will likely have the effect of losing many of the young once they reach the age when they begin to make their own choices. If you listen to all the recordings from the Jeff's trial, you get the impression that the heavy hand of fear may be impressive to a 12 year old, but no so to a child who is starting the think for herself. Example: "Stay sweet to be able to live in the highest kingdom of heaven, look upon the prophet as the ultimate authority. If you disagree, do what the prophet tells you, or you will be swept off the earth along with every person, who isn't part of the priesthood" That's heavy stuff. When you have restrictions relating to music, books, sports, ideas, age may make a difference. When the group is forced to care for their boys and end taking women and children from the men, will that mean the end?

Yay our daily mud fling on the FLDS go team

what if they were telling the truth all along, and the state of texas and the public, you and me just dont want it, we want a crazy story thats funner to read?

Crazy is right. Common sense explanations don't sell and as long as people can believe that FLDS people are not like them, they can cheer the removal of thirteen month-old, nursing babies without a twinge of conscience for the pain inflicted on those babies and their mothers.

If we admit that FLDS people are just like us - that they love their children, then common sense explanations work well.

When considering a question like disparity in numbers between teenage girls and teenage boys among the FLDS, people go for the sensational rather than the ordinary. They forget that teenagers can be rebellious; that they can reject their church, family standards, family discipline, and kick out of the traces.

But people set aside their own experiences and their own common sense when interpreting the FLDS, so what may be ordinary teen rebellion and the common response to beguilements of mainstream life is given the tabloid treatment. Everyone then becomes a voyeur on a fantasy world of teenage sex slaves in which the old bucks cast out the young males to get rid of the competition. Fantasy is an unworthy preoccupation. Common sense and empathy are better.

This advice is so duh. There was a story from Utah a few months ago about a speeding motorist who was tased by a UHP. The video of the incident was posted on the web. The motorist was castigated by DesNews posters because he did not cooperate with the law enforcement officer. Believe me, when I am stopped by a police officer I cooperate fully. I do not lie or try to deceive him or her. Actually being honest and truthful is what I have tried to incoporate into my character. It is also part of my religion. Really have to wonder about a religion that teaches the opposite of that.

At the onset of the raid, it seemed questionable whether or not Texas officials were acting on solid constitutional grounds.

With the discoveries of teenage marriages, teenage pregnancy, etc. among defenseless children, Texas officials should be praised.

As an LDS member, and a believer in priesthood keys and authority, we can see that the FLDS leadership has plunged its members into spiritual chaos.

FLDS changes to doctrine in the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants, etc has led to its own demise on all levels - spiritual and temporal.

FLDS leadership, including the women, would do well to wake up from the sleep of immorality and start lives centered on Jesus Christ rather than on polygamy.

Just as with Hitler... cooperate. Trust the State. We know what is best for you. Do what we say or you will NEVER SEE YOUR KIDS AGAIN.

What a farce. "Trust" the outfit that kidnaps over 400 kids? Better to get in a war with them and die while killing this enemy than to collaborate with the SS.

Yes now I would cooperate fully till I got my kids back; Then pooff I would be gone.

I want to see some heads roll!

>>Finally, a article that might help all those who have been screaming for the head of Texas CPS to understand that every step taken was legal, and legally required of CPS.<<

Few are saying that what the Texas CPS is doing is not legal ACCORDING TO TEXAS LAW. But there is a higher law, the US Constitution.

The Bush administration has been castigated by the US Senate for possible violation of the Constitutional right to privacy with wire tapping policies. It certainly seems a mother and her infant child, contently living in a desert ranch, should have the some right to privacy. Yet Texas CPS can swoop in, kidnap a child, ripping it from its mother's arms, all under the guise of safety of the child. Well, one would hope that those folks would have some semblance of privacy rights.

Texas says they are taking the children because the FLDS's religious teachings are harmful to children. The US Constitution says that "Congress (and that includes any subdivision of the federal or state governments) shall MAKE NO LAW respecting the free exercise of religion. Yet, here we have a clear case of violating that sacred provision.

A freekin' travesty!

IT isn't good faith when they know the telephone number originated was not within the compound (and caller claimed she was). That reduces the likelihood of criminal charges because the warrant for which all the information taken would not have been valid. If the State acted to create the charge of abuse falsely by directing the 'last' call to a system that does not specify where the phone call was originating, against standard policy, and it is further proven that previous calls from 'Sarah' had occurred they have opened themselves to several lawsuits and have lost all legal standing for criminal cases. What it looks like is the government set up the FLDS church fully knowing the abuse calls origin and complete lack of credibility because they sought to prosecute this group and lacked evidence without a fact-finding raid.

I am a teacher, not a lawyer, but even I can see the ground which the raid was begun violates so many basic rights. I am appalled that the State would risk being able to prosecute by acting in such a criminal manner. It is much akin to building public sentiment for the war based on Weapons of Mass Destruction.

I am shocked that these judges think that CPS can do whatever it wants. As a result, we have a rogue agency that does whatever it wants. Removing children from good home is child abuse. What's the point of cooperating since it has gottem them nowhere?

Thank you DN for giving us an article that explains what I have been saying for weeks, that the primary concern in this investigation is the welfare of the children, which is why child welfare agencies in every state have more latitude to investigate abuse.

Those who keep pushing for the investigation to be stopped before the CPS has determined that it's safe to return the children to their families obviously don't have the welfare of the children as their first priority.

The FLDS wouldn't be in this position if they hadn't already established a history of similar abuse in Arizona and Utah.

These parents are being told to cooperate and do what they're told, by an authority that has overstepped its bounds and stolen away their children. Texas should be ashamed of itself.