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MormonTimes.com: Elder Nelson urges CES listeners to embrace worthy music
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Lee | 7:42 a.m. May 5, 2008
Elder Nelson is referring to older hymns. There are a lot of
"contemporary" songs today that are sung in Evangelical churches. Does
the LDS church sing anything "contemporary" in the church services? I
am not being negative toward the older hymns, it's just that a lot of
people today,especiaaly the young,relate more to the contemporary sound.
Rory | 8:49 a.m. May 5, 2008
Who is to say what is "worthy music"?
Still the same | 9:22 a.m. May 5, 2008
Every older generation has always thought the music the younger generation
listens to is worthless and vile. Go back and read what people had to say about
Glen Miller, Benny Goodman, Rogers and Hammerstein and even John Philip Sousa!
Comments continue below
Dave | 9:42 a.m. May 5, 2008
I am fascinated by the fact that the hymn that Elder Nelson's daughters and
granddaughters presented is one originally written by Bernard of Clairvaux in
the twelfth century and translated by a Roman Catholic in the nineteenth. I was
under the impression that the Church taught that nothing of value came out of
the Church between the death of the original Apostles and the Restoration. How
does the LDS Church justify continuing to use hymns not written by its adherents
subsequent to the Restoration?
jjammer | 9:47 a.m. May 5, 2008
To Rory,
Church leaders will help us (who are mindless and have no morals) by giving strict guidelines about what is "worthy" music and what is not. ;-)
To me, music that promotes faith in Christ is "worthy" music. I started listening to Five Iron Frenzy, Brave Saint Saturn, Jonah33, Pillar, P.O.D., SKillet, 38th Parallel, and many other groups that create "worthy" music. This music really resonates with me and my faith in Christ. my youth leaders criticize me for listening to this kind of music. I think its worthy!
Church leaders will help us (who are mindless and have no morals) by giving strict guidelines about what is "worthy" music and what is not. ;-)
To me, music that promotes faith in Christ is "worthy" music. I started listening to Five Iron Frenzy, Brave Saint Saturn, Jonah33, Pillar, P.O.D., SKillet, 38th Parallel, and many other groups that create "worthy" music. This music really resonates with me and my faith in Christ. my youth leaders criticize me for listening to this kind of music. I think its worthy!
to jjammer and Dave | 10:01 a.m. May 5, 2008
I think each of us know what is "worthy" music and what is not. They
will not give a strict rule because it may not be the same for each of us. The
key here is to live by principle and not simply by rules. To Dave: mormons
certainly believe and accept that Christian churches after the original apostles
had died did many wonderful and important things. Chief among them might be that
they kept the Bible and passed it on to later generations. Without them none of
us would have the Bible. To them we ought to be very grateful. Even though you
might feel otherwise, mormons have high respect for other churches. Mormons
certrainly believe they all have truth in them.
bhparkman | 10:13 a.m. May 5, 2008
Done and done a long time ago. Never felt better.
Josh Spencer | 10:20 a.m. May 5, 2008
If an Elder of the Church tells us to listen to music which uplifts, we should
take their council. Suggestive, vulger, crude, in my opinion would be what this
Elder is talking about. Loud music can cause a blockade against the spirit, and
drown out the promtings which come from it.
Kevin | 10:26 a.m. May 5, 2008
to Dave,
If one were to look in the Hymnal currently in use by the Church you would find a great many written by those not members of the Church, including Martin Luther and Saint Francis of Assissi. From the earliest days of the Church we have been taught to seek "whatsoever thing is virtuous, lovely, or of good report, or praiseworthy". That pursuit often leads outside the Church. The Church makes no claims of which I am aware to have the corner on beautiful expressions in art, or of heartfelt expressions of faith.
If one were to look in the Hymnal currently in use by the Church you would find a great many written by those not members of the Church, including Martin Luther and Saint Francis of Assissi. From the earliest days of the Church we have been taught to seek "whatsoever thing is virtuous, lovely, or of good report, or praiseworthy". That pursuit often leads outside the Church. The Church makes no claims of which I am aware to have the corner on beautiful expressions in art, or of heartfelt expressions of faith.
Coder | 11:28 a.m. May 5, 2008
I agree with Elder Nelson. The hymns are a great source of spiritual strength to
me. However, I am curious what he would say about the music played in LDS
cultural halls for teen and young adult dances. Most of this music I would not
consider bad or immoral, however, it is far away from the spiritual hymns. Just
curious if anybody has any thoughts on this.
Ironically... | 11:33 a.m. May 5, 2008
I liked to listen to Christian rock, but was told it was just as
inappropriate.
Yeah...
Yeah...
My Mormon neighbors boy | 12:23 p.m. May 5, 2008
has the Devils Music comming out their window
The kid stocks the neighbors dogs and irritates them
The Dogs hate the kid
These people are active with the church and the boy scoutts
What say you?
The kid stocks the neighbors dogs and irritates them
The Dogs hate the kid
These people are active with the church and the boy scoutts
What say you?
The good News | 12:33 p.m. May 5, 2008
It is a good thing that Snopp DOGG was baptised recently into the Church because
we can now listen to his music since he is a member. ...Yes I know it was a
joke so everyone chill out...
Totally agree | 12:49 p.m. May 5, 2008
I was our ward music director and choir director for several years and became
completely converted to singing our LDS hymns.
Before I realized the spiritual power of these songs between the covers of our hymn books, I use to think of hymn singing in church as some sort of optional embellishment to our meetings, but no more.
Our LDS hymns bring a humbling and unifying power to the meeting that prepare us,as a large group of people, to BE ONE in the Holy Ghost to prepare us to pray with power and bring Jesus to be with us in our church meetings.
A change comes over the congregation when the music starts that is amazing.
This change cannot be had by ANY OTHER MUSIC, no matter how much that music changes your state otherwise.
I began to use hymn study as part of my regular scripture study.
I HIGHLY RECOMMEND IT. IT CHANGED MY WHOLD LIFE!!!
Before I realized the spiritual power of these songs between the covers of our hymn books, I use to think of hymn singing in church as some sort of optional embellishment to our meetings, but no more.
Our LDS hymns bring a humbling and unifying power to the meeting that prepare us,as a large group of people, to BE ONE in the Holy Ghost to prepare us to pray with power and bring Jesus to be with us in our church meetings.
A change comes over the congregation when the music starts that is amazing.
This change cannot be had by ANY OTHER MUSIC, no matter how much that music changes your state otherwise.
I began to use hymn study as part of my regular scripture study.
I HIGHLY RECOMMEND IT. IT CHANGED MY WHOLD LIFE!!!
Chris Plummer | 12:56 p.m. May 5, 2008
Yep, better do exactly what they say. Throw away all rock and roll, anything
"loud." Somber hymns are all you should be listening to. Maybe some
light jazz on the weekend, but not live jazz, who knows where you would have to
go for that.
BH | 12:58 p.m. May 5, 2008
I am sure that Elder Nelson would agree that when selecting "worthy"
music, one could use the measuring stick, "If there is anything virtuous,
lovely, or of good report or praisworthy, we seek after these things."
Doesn't matter who wrote it or what church they belong to. Just use that
for your guideline and you will be on track.
Mark S. | 1:29 p.m. May 5, 2008
This reminds me of the movie "Footloose"..
Not in the Choir | 1:43 p.m. May 5, 2008
Those who cannot tell the difference between "worthy" and
"unworthy" music are the people who most need to hear Elder
Nelson's talk. Those who listen regularly to Elder Nelson and the other
Brethren don't need to hear this talk.
In other words, Elder Nelson is preaching to the choir!
Those who are healthy need no physician. Those who are sick need the physician. Those who are sick are not coming to your elitist meetings. They are out in the world, at bars, in dance halls, at sports arenas. Your message never gets to them because you are not willing to rub shoulders with people you consider to be "unclean". That is how we can tell that your Master is NOT Jesus Christ! He ministered among the "unclean" because they are the people who needed him.
In other words, Elder Nelson is preaching to the choir!
Those who are healthy need no physician. Those who are sick need the physician. Those who are sick are not coming to your elitist meetings. They are out in the world, at bars, in dance halls, at sports arenas. Your message never gets to them because you are not willing to rub shoulders with people you consider to be "unclean". That is how we can tell that your Master is NOT Jesus Christ! He ministered among the "unclean" because they are the people who needed him.
parents | 2:27 p.m. May 5, 2008
>>"Who is to say what is "worthy music"?"
Parents.
Parents should be proactively involved with all of their children's music, movie and other media choices.
If you help your children find and enjoy wholesome uplifting influences they will not be very susceptible to the trash the culture would throw at them.
Parents.
Parents should be proactively involved with all of their children's music, movie and other media choices.
If you help your children find and enjoy wholesome uplifting influences they will not be very susceptible to the trash the culture would throw at them.
Parker | 2:33 p.m. May 5, 2008
Every Sunday morning, as I am driving to my LDS church meetings, I listen to the
Gospel music program on 90.1 (KUER). It always makes me smile, and gets my day
off to a good start. I do agree with what Elder Nelson says, but I also agree
that there is much good and uplifting music from many genres.
I believe that the "Church Pop" (Christian rock) style of music is not appropriate for sacrament meetings, but it can still be uplifting and useful in most other settings. I think that those Church leaders who say that Christian rock music should be avoided at all times are misunderstanding the instruction from Church HQ.
Interesting historical note: When Handel completed his masterpiece "Messiah," he couldn't get anyone to perform it in any church - the churches thought it was too secular, because some of the melodies he used were from secular sources. We've come a long way....
I believe that the "Church Pop" (Christian rock) style of music is not appropriate for sacrament meetings, but it can still be uplifting and useful in most other settings. I think that those Church leaders who say that Christian rock music should be avoided at all times are misunderstanding the instruction from Church HQ.
Interesting historical note: When Handel completed his masterpiece "Messiah," he couldn't get anyone to perform it in any church - the churches thought it was too secular, because some of the melodies he used were from secular sources. We've come a long way....
One question | 2:37 p.m. May 5, 2008
Is the music Orrin Hatch writes "worthy"?
Re: Not in the Choir | 2:39 p.m. May 5, 2008
I do listen regularly to the leaders of the LDS church. Personally, I thought
it was a great reminder in an area where I was getting off track. I forget
sometimes how important it is to listen to uplifting music, rather than just
listening to it because it has a good beat. This message got me to actually
listen to the words to the music and what I heard bothered me. It made me want
to do better.
One of the missions of the church is to help people to stand a little taller and be a little better, whether they are members of our religion or not. Nobody on this earth is or has been perfect, except Jesus Christ. We are all "unclean." We all need a little help and guidance. We need to learn things for ourselves before we can share them with others.
Once we learn, we share with EVERYONE around us!
One of the missions of the church is to help people to stand a little taller and be a little better, whether they are members of our religion or not. Nobody on this earth is or has been perfect, except Jesus Christ. We are all "unclean." We all need a little help and guidance. We need to learn things for ourselves before we can share them with others.
Once we learn, we share with EVERYONE around us!
Christian Rock | 2:55 p.m. May 5, 2008
Some music is inheritely unwholesome. You can plug religious lyrics into it but
it remains unwholesome, you have merely compounded the error by sacrilegious use
of the lyrics.
Even if the music is not inheritely unwholesome if the lyrics are overly familiar and casual in their use of and attitude toward deity, as most "Jesus" music is, then again it becomes sacrilegious.
Music can be uplifting without being overtly religious.
Sacred music is best reserved for sacred occasions.
Even if the music is not inheritely unwholesome if the lyrics are overly familiar and casual in their use of and attitude toward deity, as most "Jesus" music is, then again it becomes sacrilegious.
Music can be uplifting without being overtly religious.
Sacred music is best reserved for sacred occasions.
to the point | 4:32 p.m. May 5, 2008
Interesting...very interesting...
ramper | 6:58 p.m. May 5, 2008
Speaking about sleaze and rubbish in music is a noble position. But, it is
ironic that the talk was given at a facility that bears the name of someone who
could do a lot more about removing sleaze and rubbish from the hotels that bear
his name. Pornography is still available at many Marriott hotels. I guess where
the almighty dollar is concerned unwholesomeness is in the eyes of the register.
whatever! | 7:15 p.m. May 5, 2008
And while we are at it lets but a fig leaf on the statue of david and a shirt on
the venus de milo.
I thought you folks have the free "agency" option?
I thought you folks have the free "agency" option?
Only HYMNS Are Worthy Music? | 7:27 p.m. May 5, 2008
It's sad that, the LDS church never cease to desist their preaching that
only hymns can inspire, teach, and bring the spirit of God.
That's a lot of baloney!
There are much inspired music that edify and lifts the soul that has nothing to do with hymns.
Mozart, Beethoven, Chopin, and many others, have much music which they composed that are greater in spiritual power than any hymn, or even all the hymns combined.
I feel the music of these and other composers to have the depth that hymns does not. Such music is communication in it's purest form, without the need of subjects that are churchy in order to be submerged deep into one's soul.
But, I guess, in order to have such depth, the soul must be able to handle such depths for it to be understood.
I'm sorry, hymns are nice, but after a while, it makes me puke, because it's like drinking pure corn syrup. It's all sweet, and delicious at first, but afterwards, you feel ill. I don't believe God wants us to listen to hymns that are based not on reality, without the struggles that real life events actualy challenges each soul.
That's a lot of baloney!
There are much inspired music that edify and lifts the soul that has nothing to do with hymns.
Mozart, Beethoven, Chopin, and many others, have much music which they composed that are greater in spiritual power than any hymn, or even all the hymns combined.
I feel the music of these and other composers to have the depth that hymns does not. Such music is communication in it's purest form, without the need of subjects that are churchy in order to be submerged deep into one's soul.
But, I guess, in order to have such depth, the soul must be able to handle such depths for it to be understood.
I'm sorry, hymns are nice, but after a while, it makes me puke, because it's like drinking pure corn syrup. It's all sweet, and delicious at first, but afterwards, you feel ill. I don't believe God wants us to listen to hymns that are based not on reality, without the struggles that real life events actualy challenges each soul.
Brandon | 7:34 p.m. May 5, 2008
There is no doubt that Elder Nelson was referring to a lot of the trash that is
on the air waves in our day and age. I listened to an old AC/DC song today that
would be considered "light" compared to some of the junk that is so
prevalent in the music world today. Many country and rock songs really are
uplifting. An interesting point was made by Marvin Goldstein, a brilliant LDS
composer, in a fireside at the Washington Temple visitor center. He noted that
any music is good so long as it serves a purpose in uplifting others--he even
stated that rap can be wholesome...hmmmm.
That said, it's important to remember the conversation Mick Jagger had with a general authority on an airplane several years ago. During their discussion, Jagger stated that "[their] music [was] primarily calculated to get young listeners to become more sexually active". If that is what you're looking for as a listener, fine--but it's probably cheaper to buy a porn mag.
No church leader will knock out free agency. Its pretty simple. If it doesn't permit the Spirit, toss it. It doesn't take E=MC^2 to figure that one out (no pun intended Mariah).
That said, it's important to remember the conversation Mick Jagger had with a general authority on an airplane several years ago. During their discussion, Jagger stated that "[their] music [was] primarily calculated to get young listeners to become more sexually active". If that is what you're looking for as a listener, fine--but it's probably cheaper to buy a porn mag.
No church leader will knock out free agency. Its pretty simple. If it doesn't permit the Spirit, toss it. It doesn't take E=MC^2 to figure that one out (no pun intended Mariah).
curious | 7:43 p.m. May 5, 2008
What about music without lyrics? Must it be in major chords and not minor chords
and be cheerful? I'm a little less clear on how one judges the
wholesomeness of music with no lyrics, like the type one might have on in the
background while working.
Also, would Enya or other "new age" or world music like Irish music or sitar music be considered bad because it's the wrong sort of spirituality?
Also, would Enya or other "new age" or world music like Irish music or sitar music be considered bad because it's the wrong sort of spirituality?
Anonymous | 9:05 p.m. May 5, 2008
You Mormons have a weird concept of "the Spirit"! How can music or
anything else "permit the Spirit" or not? The Spirit of God is
all-powerful, all-knowing, and benevolent, just like God the Father and God the
Son. How can anything you as a mere pathetic moral do anything to
"permit" or "restrict" a God?! Your theology makes no sense
unless you are a pagan of some kind.
Brant | 9:34 p.m. May 5, 2008
In response to Anonymous posting at 9:05 p.m., May 5.
Will God tell a lie?
No. Does that mean He is not infinite?
No. Not telling lies is a limit that God imposes on Himself.
Same with the Holy Spirit. The presence of the Spirit lets us mortals know that what we are experiencing is good. By choice, the Holy Spirit withdraws from that which is false or unholy.
Will God tell a lie?
No. Does that mean He is not infinite?
No. Not telling lies is a limit that God imposes on Himself.
Same with the Holy Spirit. The presence of the Spirit lets us mortals know that what we are experiencing is good. By choice, the Holy Spirit withdraws from that which is false or unholy.
So What No... | 10:19 p.m. May 5, 2008
Soulja Boy? I am sorry but it looks pretty uplifting to me.
Kyle from AZ | 10:22 p.m. May 5, 2008
Who cares? Listen to what you want, use your own judgment. Quit judging others
for what they believe. Mormon haters find something else to do. If the energy
that was spent writing some of these worthless posts was put do good use, think
of all the good we could do!
Spirit Does Not Withdraw | 10:29 p.m. May 5, 2008
The lies that are spread by the LDS church to create fear among the people, is
that the Holy Spirit will "leave, or withdraw" from you when you are a
bad little boy or little girl. That's one of the tactics they use to
control them.
The truth is that, if ever, the spirit leaves you, you are automatically dead, both physically and spiritually. You will immediately cease to exist.
Without the spirit of God, you are nothing in the literal sense. And to think that the Holy Spirit can abandon you and still be alive, and even still be a part of this universe is as ludicrous as being run over by a steamroller, and yet able to get up, smile and feeling as whole and unharmed as if the steamroller were made out of foam rubber.
It's impossible for the Holy Spirit to leave you. The Holy Spirit does not act like a spoiled brat,"Oh, you did wrong, so, I'm leaving!".
Now, that's how man behaves, and therefore, they only know how man thinks, and they equate God and the Spirit to behave the way pathetic man does.
They've lowered Godhood to the characteristics of a brat.
The truth is that, if ever, the spirit leaves you, you are automatically dead, both physically and spiritually. You will immediately cease to exist.
Without the spirit of God, you are nothing in the literal sense. And to think that the Holy Spirit can abandon you and still be alive, and even still be a part of this universe is as ludicrous as being run over by a steamroller, and yet able to get up, smile and feeling as whole and unharmed as if the steamroller were made out of foam rubber.
It's impossible for the Holy Spirit to leave you. The Holy Spirit does not act like a spoiled brat,"Oh, you did wrong, so, I'm leaving!".
Now, that's how man behaves, and therefore, they only know how man thinks, and they equate God and the Spirit to behave the way pathetic man does.
They've lowered Godhood to the characteristics of a brat.
How sad some don't feel it | 11:33 p.m. May 5, 2008
There are some of you who have missed out on some incredible spirital
experiences, because you do not understand the difference between our spirits
and that of the Holy Ghostwhich can and does literally descend upon you or as
I might decribe inside of you, your right the spirit does not leave us, we leave
it, when we choose to do things that are not good, remember the saying no
unclean thing can enter into the Temple of God,(which ye are) well God cannot
enter into us when we are not clean, in mind, body, and spirit. It comes down
to humility and educating ourselves of how we should live our lives.
Confused | 12:04 a.m. May 6, 2008
While I could see the church establishing standards on what types of music it
could use in its meetings, It seems overly strict to try to dictate what shows
up on someone's ipod. Aren't people blessed with agency and wisdom to
make choices?
In High school, I dated a girl who was the daughter of the local seminary/institute directory. She was not allowed to listen to any sort of rock Music including some of my favorite bands: Journey and Styx. They were also prohibited from listening to musical theater, such as Andrew Lloyd Webber. Apparently 'Joseph' or 'Superstar' were too offensive.
In High school, I dated a girl who was the daughter of the local seminary/institute directory. She was not allowed to listen to any sort of rock Music including some of my favorite bands: Journey and Styx. They were also prohibited from listening to musical theater, such as Andrew Lloyd Webber. Apparently 'Joseph' or 'Superstar' were too offensive.
Roger | 12:28 a.m. May 6, 2008
I must say that, as Elder Nelson apparently noted, music can be a strong
influence in one's life for good or bad. It helped me convert :)
-R
-R
narson filipino | 1:11 a.m. May 6, 2008
I want to tell those who critizised Elder Nelson that he only magnify his
calling as an apostle, there is nothing judgmental in his statement, but he
reminds those who might listen that there is a better way of using our free
agency.
My favorite Hymn | 1:15 a.m. May 6, 2008
I really like, "if you could hie to Kolob". What a great hymn!
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