Deseret News | Catholics told not to give LDS parish data

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Catholics told not to give LDS parish data

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banderson | 1:31 p.m. May 9, 2008

The effect of us generally "all having the same ancestors" is that we can all help one another find our common ancestors. Millions of non-LDS benefit each year by using LDS resources to find their ancestors. Thousands of LDS use wonderful Non-LDS resources to find ancestors. There is a great cooperative effort among genealogists.

The information age has exploded the information available on the Internet and our ability to find our kin and collaborate with others of our extended family to extend our family lines. There are various ways information can be shared into the Internet so extended family can benefit.

Some researchers like to gather information from others efforts but don't want to share what they have found. That's okay too. Some people do research just to find some O'Haras and get together to get drunk and speak fondly of the "Old country". That's okay too.

I may think it would be harmful to help the O'Haras find their family, get drunk. But I'll still share my research with them. They're on their own to do with it what they will.

Everyone has their own reason to search out their kin. Mormons have theirs. Maybe that's okay too.

banderson | 1:43 p.m. May 9, 2008

A sweet thing happened a few years ago when my wife hurt her leg severely. Our evangelical neighbor lady came over to see my wife. Seeing that she had a hurt leg she offered to lay hands on her and pray for her to be healed (a New Testament practice still practiced by some churches).

We LDS lay hands on people all the time and pray for them -- but it was sure different to have a neighbor lady offer a similar opportunity. My wife graciously accepted the offer and the prayer was said. Yes the leg got better.

I would be happy to have my ancestors baptized in whatever church or sacrificed to heathen gods or whatever. I won't be offended and I suspect they won't either. See above to identify who my ancestors are. They are generally your ancestors -- so knock yourself out if you'd like to.

Barney | 2:28 a.m. May 10, 2008

Erroneous how? asked
"Will a Catholic please scripturally explain how baptism for the dead is erroneous?"

I suggest that you go to a parish priest and ask, but please ask politely and respectfully.

Comments continue below

To banderson | 3:02 a.m. May 10, 2008

"Some people do research just to find some O'Haras and get together to get drunk and speak fondly of the "Old country"."

You could have used a non-Irish surname in your example rather than reinforcing a stereotype.

Bill | 9:27 p.m. May 11, 2008

The Catholic Church is self-destructing. All we can do is let it go.

Emlyn Davis | 1:13 p.m. May 12, 2008

I'm sorry but I think it's all about example. If when you give information you know the person is using it in a way that does not match your beliefs or sets an erroneous example then the Catholic Church has every right to hold such information back.

Also with regards to the comment known as 'Two Faced' don't play the game that the LDS is above reproach and innocent. LDS will do anything to get on tv and look 'Christian' with Helping Hands and other projects. By the way I'm a Mormon who has become a Catholic so yes I'm probably warped and anti-Mormon.

Rebecca | 1:26 p.m. May 12, 2008

I can understand that from the outside this statement could be misinterpreted to mean that Catholic's don't like Mormons and it is true that it is difficult to love those who seem different.

However, The Catholic Church was correct in making this statement for a number of reasons but one which is important in these times, is that there is popular misconception that all religions are the same.If they had agreed to give names of the Catholic faithful this could be misinterpreted as saying Catholic and LDS - the same.

This is not true, the LDS faith has elements of the truth but it is not the Truth. Christ is the Truth. The Catholic Church is Christ's Church. Which he is with always to the end of time in the Eucharist and which he promised that the gates of hell will not prevail against. It is still His Church :)I pray that we all may grow in the love of Christ. God Bless

Sue | 5:31 p.m. May 12, 2008

As a devout Mormon who loves Catholics (and other people of various faiths)I am not offended that Catholics, or any other religions, believe that they have the only true church. Why would anyone align themselves with a religion that didn't believe it had the power to save it's members? After my mother-in-law passed away a few months ago, my Catholic neighbor had her prayed for in special masses, which will continue for five years. I am very touched by her love and thoughtfulness. The Catholic Church certainly has the right to do what it wants with its records but I hope that there will be a way for all religions to benefit from shared information.

Just to add a bit more | 4:56 p.m. May 14, 2008

I meant to say I don't hate Mormons/LDS. My family are still members of the LDS and I love them but I agree with the point made by the catholic church.

Cliff | 9:05 a.m. May 16, 2008

I'm seeing a lot of posts on here stating that the LDS church would be highly offended if other church members began "baptizing" for dead LDS members.

Nothing could be farther from the truth.

Such statements are simply knee-jerk statements unfounded in logic or truth. No, we would not be "all over that like white on rice."

Our 11th article of faith states: "We claim the privilege of worshipping almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege. Let them worsjip how, where, or what they may."

If someone else wants to perform a post death ritual on behalf of my deceased ancestor, so be it. It will not be of any effect, so why should it bother me, or any other church member?

I fail to see why this would bother anyone who was secure in their own religion? If the Catholic church really believes the LDS church is in error, what is that to the Catholics?

Kate Baum - Georgia | 12:12 p.m. May 16, 2008

I have spent the last 30 years volunteering as a German, then Gottscheer helper at my local LDS Family History Center and I spend a week every year in Salt Lake City doing research for others. I have traveled to Catholic archdioceses in Europe to get some of my family information and have been rudely treated in some places. No one is rude to me at the Family History Center. It is certainly less expensive to drive to my local FHC that fly to Europe. Those are some of the reason why I love the fact that so many of the records are available through LDS. I am extremely sorry that my church is being so narrow minded and "un-ecumenical".

Lisa | 4:14 p.m. May 16, 2008

Mark I totally agree with you. I DO NOT want someone baptising me into some other religion when I am gone whether I believe it works or not....I could just see other religions baptising Mormons after they are gone. You'd sure see an outcry. I don't agree with the Catholic Church holding back on information because of my love for family tree research, but I don't blame them for having their feathers ruffled.

??? | 4:28 p.m. May 16, 2008

How can you people compare a baptism to the Catholics lighting a candle or praying for you?? A baptism is not the same!

Anonymous | 5:41 p.m. May 18, 2008

We must remember how often Pres Hinckley reminded members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints to be kind to others of other faiths. I have no doubt that as our church leaders speak with the Catholic Church things will work out. It's not always about being right. Sometimes it's about being understanding before wanting to be understood. The Lord has his ways of moving the work forward in His own time and in His own way. No one can stop this work from progressing. It is vital to all, even to those of other faiths, for we are all children of God. We must not have a holier than thou attitude, but live so that our lives can open doors, open hearts, and so that the spirit of the Lord may touch all. This is His work, not ours. We must do it his way. Why should we worry so much? Our Catholic brothers and sisters believe in their religion just as much as we do. Lets worry about staying on course in our own lives, for we are the greatest embassadors of this great and noble work. It is true and it will not be deterred.

Bert | 4:22 p.m. May 22, 2008

The Mormon Church has already set a precedence when they agree to not posthumously baptize any holocaust victim without the approval of an immediate family member.

They have in essence acknowledged that to do so is an insult to family members of the deceased.

This courtesy should be extended to all proxy candidates.

Doug Forbes | 6:53 p.m. May 26, 2008

I can see a law suit in this. The descendant of the deceased may have more right under the law to the records of their ancestors than any church. The church doesn't even have to get involved in this. Individuals can sue for information about their own ancestors.

How interesting.... | 6:25 p.m. June 25, 2008

It makes no sense to me: if the Catholic Church believes that LDS practices are wrong and invalid, why should it matter to them if Mormons want to baptize their ancestors if they believe it to be an "errounous practice?"

Tea | 5:22 p.m. Aug. 24, 2008

I was forced to attend the mormon church when I was young (mother has since left the church and apologised). I've been a Catholic for over 30 years and still the mormons show up at my door like I'm going to have some big revelation and repent. That same persistant arrogance and disrepect when mormons "baptise" the dead, has resulted in the closure of Catholic records. Good job mormons, you've ruined it for the rest of us. You reap what you sow.

Anne in Australia | 6:45 a.m. Oct. 8, 2008

With a mixed Catholic and LDS background it does not offend me when Catholics have masses said for our relatives when they die. I wish then that they would not be offended when Temple work is done for the dead as it is only to assist them to progress and affords those who did not repent in life to re-dedicate themselves or repent and be baptized, as in Paul to the Corinthians, Else what shall they do who are Baptized for the Dead if the Dead Rise not at all, maybe those who complain dont believe there will be a resurrection. I thought all Catholics and LDS did so cannot each thank the other for the kindly prayers, Masses and Temple work done in love and concern. Ecumenical understanding was thought to have replaced bigotry. Maybe it is waking up again. How Sad.
Let us pray for Catholic and LDS unity as they have so much in common, anti abortion, worship of God The Father, belief in a living Christ and hope for their own and their loved ones' salvation. What is wrong with that. Solving whether Rome had the authority from Peter is too long a debate.

Holy Roman Apostolic Catholic | 7:35 p.m. June 3, 2009

1st: RE-READ the article and understand that what the Catholic Church doesnt want is LDS missionares or LDS members posing as "genealogists" mass-microfilming the records it guards. If someone wants a copy of a record, that person must show legimitate interest, for example being a descendant of the record in question he or she wishes to obtain. Period, is that simple.

2nd: Yes, the Church does have serious concerns of the destination the information given is used for. First by publicizing all the info for the sake of genealogy seems an unthreatening practice, but that info will not only be available to true genealogists and people with legitimate interest, but also to many whakos (including the LDS church) who practice for good or for bad necromancy... and for that, I thank the Pope for protectig the souls of my ancestors.

3rd: is not a matter of what you find offensive, it is a matter of what the Catholics or the Jews feel offensive, and that should be respected. "do unto others as you..."

4th: The Catholic Church is the only true Church and all you mormons are poor misled heathen. I`ll pray for you.

Emlyn Davis | 5:41 p.m. July 21, 2009

I would like to apologise my family are LDS and I being one I know how important it is for members. I apologise, I had a bad exp. but that's not an attempt to excuse or justify my sin and I don't want to tar anyone or an organisation with my over-reactionary syndrome. Kind of like when someone gives up smoking.

So I sincerely apologise, I don't agree with the practice, but I feel a bit embarassed that I typed without thinking, so to any LDS reading this who have read my earlier comment I apologise, to others who are reading this and haven't read the other, please accept it as someone with way too much caffeine and anger management.

Thanks

Utah Mormon | 5:54 p.m. July 21, 2009

If the Catholic Church does not want to give their data to the LDS Church who cares? Jesus Christ himself declared that all will hear his gospel and have the opportunity to accept him, which I believe is true because what kind of God hides from man and punishes them if they haven't heard of the name Jesus Christ and never had the chance?

Nobody should be getting riled up about this. It's their choice if they don't want to give us the records, we shouldn't be making a big deal out of it. We should be doing what we can, and doing what we believe instead of whining, "They won't share." Then if they don't want to they don't have to! Find other things you could be doing productively instead of moping about it like a bunch of emo kids.

Stop bawling | 6:26 p.m. July 21, 2009

The Catholic church is the only true church on this earth today rather any one of you want to admit it or not. Catholics have sacred records as well. Learn to respect others.

lame | 6:37 p.m. July 21, 2009

What's this old article on here for. Give it up!

Anonymous | 7:13 p.m. July 21, 2009

I believe Heavenly Father wants us to do family history for our own benefit. We learn so much about ourselves, by getting to know and appreciate our ancestors. I don't believe for one second that someone will be denied the blessings of eternity, simply because some records are lost or unattainable. All will work out in the end. Sometimes we forget just who is in charge.

Anonymous | 7:25 p.m. July 21, 2009

I'm a live. I've studied the history and beliefs of Mormonism and I freely choose to believe Mormonism is bogus.

Joe | 8:08 p.m. Oct. 13, 2009

These posts are hilarious.

Disclaimer: If you are extremely conservative, almost to a puritanical state of mind, and cannot find humor in life do not read any further.

Okay folks, you can all have my bones and remains and do what you want with them after I'm dead and gone. Really, I won't need them. I won't need my name as well since Joe is pretty common and I expect some more to come along after I.

With religion has always come war, as well as the war of ideas, this is nothing different. I thought WE, as the human race, have far surpassed the age of enlightenment and worked through our fears and superstitions? I guess there are a few stragglers in any bunch.

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