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Utah, Arizona AGs feel fallout from FLDS raid
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Law 102: | 6:05 p.m. May 4, 2008
Obvious statement of the day: Polygamy is illegal. The problem here is that
these people were not practicing polygamy in a legal sense, as their additional
"marriages" amounted to little more than mutual pretense. A person
can actually be "spiritually wed" to as many others as he/she chooses,
since this practice carries no legal weight, and can neither be proven nor
prosecuted. THIS is why Utah and Arizona never arrested the FLDS for polygamy.
FBI - IRS | 6:19 p.m. May 4, 2008
Sen. Harry Reid should alert the IRS and FBI that the West's Attorney
Generals are looking the other way on this widespread criminal enterprise. The
FBI or IRS forensic tax agents should pay all the compounds a visit. They can
do an unbiased and though investigation of racketeering and criminal tax evasion
of the perps.
SJ Bobkins | 6:36 p.m. May 4, 2008
I lived with a farming family in Leeds, while I was a student at Dixie College.
It wasn't uncommon for girls to leave Colorado City, find a way to the
surrounding towns, like Leeds, and knock on someone's door asking for money
for a bus ticket to Phoenix, or Salt Lake City or a ride. The county sheriff was
normally called and the girls, being under 18 were taken back to their fathers.
There were no help groups who could give aid to the girls who may have been
trying to leave a marriage to an older man, or to escape such a marriage from
taking place. Many of the boys also left, and found work in St. George or just
hung around going crazy with their new found freedom. They weren't
returned, in the manner of the girls. Utah has always condoned teen marriages in
the FLDS community, and the neglecting of the unneeded young boys. Certainly
there should have been actions to stop the 12 to 16 year old girls being forced
to marry old men, and yes they were forced by their fathers to marry. Utah has
been terribly lax in protecting these girls.
Comments continue below
Oregonian | 6:38 p.m. May 4, 2008
Did anyone notice there is no obesity in that FLDS group? And no slutty looking
teenage girls with earrings hanging down to their shoulders, or teenage boys
with their pants falling off? There are no reports of alcohol or drug abuse
either.... so it looks like a pretty good lifestyle to me.
And to "Jenny":
I've had two husbands and if I had it to do over again I might decide to be a "sister wife". You said you had never heard a single woman say she would live with a polygamist. Well...now you have. So settle down! Try it...you might like it.
And to "Jenny":
I've had two husbands and if I had it to do over again I might decide to be a "sister wife". You said you had never heard a single woman say she would live with a polygamist. Well...now you have. So settle down! Try it...you might like it.
Lacey in AZ | 6:55 p.m. May 4, 2008
Re: Wildflower
"Polygamy depends on definition.
"Plural Parenting"?
Going on everywhere - with full blessings of Family Courts.
Gonna take everyone's children?"
Ummm, no - just the children who are subjected to abuse, rape, and/or other illegal activities. Isn't that supposed to be a more important concern than adult rights? The wellbeing and protection of our children?
Debating the pros/cons of polygamy is one thing, but blindly supporting a group of people (FLDS) who flout the laws and take advantage of public services while putting their children in harms way is sick and illegal! What part of that do enablers not understand?
"Polygamy depends on definition.
"Plural Parenting"?
Going on everywhere - with full blessings of Family Courts.
Gonna take everyone's children?"
Ummm, no - just the children who are subjected to abuse, rape, and/or other illegal activities. Isn't that supposed to be a more important concern than adult rights? The wellbeing and protection of our children?
Debating the pros/cons of polygamy is one thing, but blindly supporting a group of people (FLDS) who flout the laws and take advantage of public services while putting their children in harms way is sick and illegal! What part of that do enablers not understand?
awesomeron | 7:13 p.m. May 4, 2008
I have a huge issue with the people that grip about the laws that may or may not
have been broken in this raid. The call may or may not have been a hoax and the
person(s) on the other end of the line may or may not have known that. The law
may or may not have used that call as an excuse to go in. However having gone in
they are sure as heck going to win it. If you are treating your community as
private then all the houses are one house, 1 big happy family. The objection
with some is not so much what they found. But that they found it at all. When
the smoke cleared we have, forced marriage of underage girls, Child Rape and
Beatings of Children, among other things. I have always been appalled by the
reaction of some to this event. They largely just wanted is the States of Utah,
Arizona and Texas to leave them alone. Because you are isolated does not make
you above the law. You can not have your own little kingdom, and Texas said Not
In My House. Good for them!!!
Anonymous | 7:30 p.m. May 4, 2008
law 102: Texas has Common Law Marriage. Under Texas law these would be actual
marriages as they declare themselves married. More than one. Plural. Polygamous.
Illegal. Prosecuteable. You're not in Utah or Arizona anymore Dorothy.
Nancy | 7:35 p.m. May 4, 2008
Oregonian
I really doubt you are a woman talking in that matter, but if you are you must look like my bow wow who is one ugly dog. And if you went through 2 husbands, I imagine it was probably your fault... However, you sound and write more like a man pretending to be a woman...lol! You keep posting the same B-S so I'm really thinking you are a polygamist man. You never use a name only the same gripes and judgmental grumbles about how men and women look outside FLDS cult. I am another woman who would never live plural marriage. NO WAY IN THIS LIFE OR THE NEXT, and my husband feels the same way about it. I have as well to my delight been married to the same good man since we married 40 years ago, and we have 8 kids. So how does that wobble your belly.
I really doubt you are a woman talking in that matter, but if you are you must look like my bow wow who is one ugly dog. And if you went through 2 husbands, I imagine it was probably your fault... However, you sound and write more like a man pretending to be a woman...lol! You keep posting the same B-S so I'm really thinking you are a polygamist man. You never use a name only the same gripes and judgmental grumbles about how men and women look outside FLDS cult. I am another woman who would never live plural marriage. NO WAY IN THIS LIFE OR THE NEXT, and my husband feels the same way about it. I have as well to my delight been married to the same good man since we married 40 years ago, and we have 8 kids. So how does that wobble your belly.
To Oregonian | 7:45 p.m. May 4, 2008
No one outside FLDS uses the words "Spiritual Wives". So you gave
yourself away. Next time use a different choice of words.
Paul | 7:50 p.m. May 4, 2008
"Child rape" and "forced marriage" are very charged terms.
One should be careful when posting such accusations. There is absolutely no
proof that this particular community engaged in such monstrous things. Neither
term can be used to describe the voluntary wedding of a girl (of legal age) and
her boyfriend. Of course, these definitions might be applicable in the Nancy
Grace Dictionary.
Living near by | 8:27 p.m. May 4, 2008
I live 20 miles from Colorado City. Ive known many of these people.. These are
my observations..
1. They want to be treated well, but dont treat outsiders well. Just drive though their town. (I have many times)
2. There is NOTHING fundamental about fundamentalism. Not much resembles the LDS church. In fact, try to attend church there.. You will not be allowed.. Period..
3. VERY very few women look you in the eye, have any self esteem or education.
4. Hang around a while, you will find that they have a very high rate of birth defects. Ask anyone working at Dixie Regional Hospital.
5. They subscribe to an idea they call "Bleeding the beast" Meaning , get all that you can by defrauding the US Government.
Never mind working to better the world, God doesn't care about the rest the world Anyway, (Opposite to the LDS that will help anyone in need) The whole idea is to make lots of kids, and build a private society.. Weird.
Once again, there is Nothing Fundamental in Fundamentalism
1. They want to be treated well, but dont treat outsiders well. Just drive though their town. (I have many times)
2. There is NOTHING fundamental about fundamentalism. Not much resembles the LDS church. In fact, try to attend church there.. You will not be allowed.. Period..
3. VERY very few women look you in the eye, have any self esteem or education.
4. Hang around a while, you will find that they have a very high rate of birth defects. Ask anyone working at Dixie Regional Hospital.
5. They subscribe to an idea they call "Bleeding the beast" Meaning , get all that you can by defrauding the US Government.
Never mind working to better the world, God doesn't care about the rest the world Anyway, (Opposite to the LDS that will help anyone in need) The whole idea is to make lots of kids, and build a private society.. Weird.
Once again, there is Nothing Fundamental in Fundamentalism
jr | 8:39 p.m. May 4, 2008
What has the AG done over the years of all these spiritual wives collecting
welfare to support their religious beliefs? That in itself is Fraud. Not just
those in the FLDS but what about the Kingston one having 100 children and
stating he could not afford to support them so the taxpayer is supporting them
and the religion. Great going AG. Young girls being forced into a life of
servitude to dirty old men. mmmmm nothing will change in Utah as they LDS
believe in polygamy and it is still practised in the spiritual sense. Thank
God that Texas had the guts to take action ad that lot moved to Texas thinking
the law allowed them to rape 14 year olds
betty | 9:25 p.m. May 4, 2008
i am a texan who is very proud right now. your politicians and lawmen seem to
be afraid of the polygamist in your midst. why?? you great big he men cannt do
anything about abuse of women and children??? why are my federal dollars paying
for the care of all those inbred children. why are we giving them food stamps
for 100 s of children that are supposed to be spiritual wives children. when the
polys men stand up and be proud on the public square and say they will provide
for each and every one of their spritiual wives and children. they are too
chicken, just like your lawmen. go to texas, see what real men are like.
Child rape and forced marriage | 9:25 p.m. May 4, 2008
.
Under the law underage girls may not give consent to marry or have sex with older men. The law recognizes that they are not mature enough to make a rational decision at that age and are subject to being pressured or intimidated into a decision that society recognizes in inappropriate and exploitative and abusive. The term statutory rape applies to such relationships, regardless of any supposed "consent" on the part of the child. When older FLDS men engage in sham marriages with underage girls it is CHILD RAPE and any "marriages" (common law, "spiritual", etc) are FORCED MARRIAGES.
THERE IS OVERWHELMING PROOF THAT BOTH WERE PERVASIVE IN FLDS
Under the law underage girls may not give consent to marry or have sex with older men. The law recognizes that they are not mature enough to make a rational decision at that age and are subject to being pressured or intimidated into a decision that society recognizes in inappropriate and exploitative and abusive. The term statutory rape applies to such relationships, regardless of any supposed "consent" on the part of the child. When older FLDS men engage in sham marriages with underage girls it is CHILD RAPE and any "marriages" (common law, "spiritual", etc) are FORCED MARRIAGES.
THERE IS OVERWHELMING PROOF THAT BOTH WERE PERVASIVE IN FLDS
Matthew | 10:06 p.m. May 4, 2008
If there is overwhelming proof, let them criminally prosecute. There isn't
overwhelming proof, so they just persecute.
You can't have it both ways. If you want others to obey the law, then you and the authorities need to obey the law. Texas wants to impose their standards on others while not being bound by their own laws or the US Consitution.
Everyone trying to support Texas seems to rely on either personal opinion, lies, or unsupported accusations. Where are the sound principles or facts. Nowhere!
Until they can prove something with evidence, what Texas did was a Nazi Genocide or a Baptist Witch Hunt. You can take you pick but those are the only two rational labels.
Prosecute all criminals the same, but don't single people out because of their religion. Don't do an end run on the law when you have no evidence. Tyranny will be the result if you do.
You can't have it both ways. If you want others to obey the law, then you and the authorities need to obey the law. Texas wants to impose their standards on others while not being bound by their own laws or the US Consitution.
Everyone trying to support Texas seems to rely on either personal opinion, lies, or unsupported accusations. Where are the sound principles or facts. Nowhere!
Until they can prove something with evidence, what Texas did was a Nazi Genocide or a Baptist Witch Hunt. You can take you pick but those are the only two rational labels.
Prosecute all criminals the same, but don't single people out because of their religion. Don't do an end run on the law when you have no evidence. Tyranny will be the result if you do.
Paul | 10:20 p.m. May 4, 2008
Provide just *one* piece of proof that "child rape" and "forced
marriage" took place in this Texas community. I ask for one shred of
evidence, not personal opinion based on media hysterics. A girl of age, who
chooses to wed her boyfriend, is not a raped child in a forced marriage. Chances
are that not one *child* was harmed in such a way. If any *child* was abused,
may the hammer of justice come down on the person who abused them.
Paul | 10:37 p.m. May 4, 2008
I agree with most of what you said, Matthew. Not one member of this community
pressed one charge against one member of this community. No arrests were made.
No trials are pending. Two guys were charged with obstruction. Those charges
were dropped. Let's hope that evidence is not created or shaped to
prosecute a "possible" crime.
Kev | 10:59 p.m. May 4, 2008
The rape will show itself with FLDS men soon or later.
Robin Wildflower | 11:28 p.m. May 4, 2008
In regards to "welfare fraud".
Do "facts" matter?
No one at the "Yearning For Zion Ranch" was a "welfare recipient".
Do "facts" matter?
No one at the "Yearning For Zion Ranch" was a "welfare recipient".
Enforce the Law | 11:39 p.m. May 4, 2008
Mr. Shurtleff, all we ask is that you enforce the law against polygamy. You
don't need to prosecute every single polygamist. Start with half a dozen
of them, and you'll see a migration of polygamists either out of the
"principle" or to other states that have more resources than Utah or
don't care about people's extra-marital sexual activities. If you
have think there's a constitutional problem with laws against polygamy, let
the courts sort that out later. We didn't vote for you to act as
legislator, enforcer and supreme court justice. Just do your job -- prosecute
our laws. Let the Utah Supreme Court and the U.S. Supreme Court do their job.
And let the Legislature do its job. If the legislators decide to change the
Utah Constitution and reverse the laws against polygamy, let them do it, and
even encourage them to do it, but enforce the law in the meanwhile.
Robin Wildflower | 2:46 a.m. May 5, 2008
Bill of Rights
Amendment VII
In suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury, shall be otherwise reexamined in any court of the United States, than according to the rules of the common law.
Amendment VIII
Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.
Amendment IX
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.
Amendment X
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.
YES.
I do believe - as do many others - that the
U.S. Bill of Rights is VERY IMPORTANT INDEED!
It "IS LAW".
To remove all children and infants from a community is ABUSE.
To do so based on rumor, innuendo and hoax IS "illegal".
Child Rape is a "crime". . . where are the charges and arrests?
If this were Salem we'd all be smelling burning hair and broom-straw by now.
Amendment VII
In suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury, shall be otherwise reexamined in any court of the United States, than according to the rules of the common law.
Amendment VIII
Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.
Amendment IX
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.
Amendment X
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.
YES.
I do believe - as do many others - that the
U.S. Bill of Rights is VERY IMPORTANT INDEED!
It "IS LAW".
To remove all children and infants from a community is ABUSE.
To do so based on rumor, innuendo and hoax IS "illegal".
Child Rape is a "crime". . . where are the charges and arrests?
If this were Salem we'd all be smelling burning hair and broom-straw by now.
Ronald A. Young | 3:52 a.m. May 5, 2008
Anon. True about what you say, except the Girls are underage and can't say
yes, even with a so called parents consent. Some people have trouble with the
age of the men. I have trouble with the age of the girls. If everyone was over
18 I could care less. Age spreads are very common. My wife and I have a 15 year
age spread, and we have enjoyed for over 20 years and still do. However everyone
was well over 18 when we got started. If everyone was over 18, we could just go
to the child abuse and remove the kids for that. In 2008 we are not supposed to
beat children. As an abused child I know it is hard to break the cycle of
violence, but it can be done. Violence is a learned behavior. Violence against
Women is a learned behavior that is reinforced by the person (not always male)
getting away with it. Total dependence forces women and a few men to have to
watch and just put up with it. If he/she is beating or raping them, then he/she
is not beating or raping me. It is about the rapes and beatings.
Red | 11:20 a.m. May 5, 2008
Rule of Law: "What part of ILLEGAL do you not understand?"
The part that says, "The rule of law doesn't limit the State."
That's the truly scary part.
The part that says, "The rule of law doesn't limit the State."
That's the truly scary part.
Red | 11:33 a.m. May 5, 2008
Logical thinker, duh!: "The only way you could prosecute bigamy or polygamy
is if the marriage were performed by authorities and/or without the knowledge of
the other wife."
Law 102: "Obvious statement of the day: ... these people were not practicing polygamy in a legal sense, as their additional "marriages" amounted to little more than mutual pretense�. [Spiritual marriage] carries no legal weight, ...."
This used to be true, but Utah has twisted family law into a pretzel.
Utah didn't recognize "common law" marriages; now it does, and defines them such that a young man "two-timing" with a couple of young ladies is a polygamist if the Attorney General wants to declare him one.
Utah also now says that, after a divorce, you're still married if the AG says you are. A second marriage, after a divorce, makes you a polygamist if the AG wants to declare you one.
There's a saying, "Hard cases make bad law." Family law in Utah, as it has been perverted to make polygamy convictions more attainable, is an outstanding example of this.
Any state Utah has "helped" re-define its marriage and family law is likely to wind up with a similar abomination.
Law 102: "Obvious statement of the day: ... these people were not practicing polygamy in a legal sense, as their additional "marriages" amounted to little more than mutual pretense�. [Spiritual marriage] carries no legal weight, ...."
This used to be true, but Utah has twisted family law into a pretzel.
Utah didn't recognize "common law" marriages; now it does, and defines them such that a young man "two-timing" with a couple of young ladies is a polygamist if the Attorney General wants to declare him one.
Utah also now says that, after a divorce, you're still married if the AG says you are. A second marriage, after a divorce, makes you a polygamist if the AG wants to declare you one.
There's a saying, "Hard cases make bad law." Family law in Utah, as it has been perverted to make polygamy convictions more attainable, is an outstanding example of this.
Any state Utah has "helped" re-define its marriage and family law is likely to wind up with a similar abomination.
Zeerover | 12:46 p.m. May 5, 2008
When did the government get the power to decide when I'm being abused?
Everything's being done in the name of some kind of "abuse" these
days. Government's a bunch of little 'ol ladies of both sexes sticking
their noses into everyone's business. Why is it the government's
business who you live with or "marry", beyond perhaps a blood test for
medical reasons. What is the pursuit of happiness. Who decides when I'm
happy? The polygamists all seemed happy enough 'til the government got
involved.
BlueEyedDevil | 10:37 p.m. May 5, 2008
Wasn't Mary in her early teens when God got her pregnant? Now there's
an age difference for you!
Cultures different than ours should be respected, just as we expect other cultures to respect ours. The FLDS custom is for older men to have children by younger brides, who are raised not to see anything wrong with that - just as it was for most of our contry's history, btw.
The controlling power elite fostered women's "liberation" because they wanted women "liberated" from motherhood so they could join the workforce and thereby double the government's tax revenues. This resulted in the worst possible type of child abuse, namely mothers abandoning their young children to be raised by day care centers.
Cultures different than ours should be respected, just as we expect other cultures to respect ours. The FLDS custom is for older men to have children by younger brides, who are raised not to see anything wrong with that - just as it was for most of our contry's history, btw.
The controlling power elite fostered women's "liberation" because they wanted women "liberated" from motherhood so they could join the workforce and thereby double the government's tax revenues. This resulted in the worst possible type of child abuse, namely mothers abandoning their young children to be raised by day care centers.
Lacey in AZ | 2:35 a.m. May 6, 2008
Re: BlueEyedDevil
We do not live in a time that is thousand�s of years ago. We live in the here and now, and despite the challenge of time moving on, it is not moral or Christian to blithely accept the impregnation of young teenage women with the seed of any man, old or young, without their consent and/or legality to place consent, especially when these young women are placed in the position to choose between status quo and their own souls; that is why there is a major problem. When any of the men you are speaking for stands up and faces the laws of the greater society they live in (you�re not in a cocoon, sorry), and supports every single one of their offspring, without allowing them to take welfare, and/or move to another state to dodge the laws of decency, then you might have a leg to stand on, maybe. Until then, perpetrators of these crimes are just that, criminals; preying on the vulnerability of innocence and it does not matter which religion they ascribe to, it is still most certainly wrong.
We do not live in a time that is thousand�s of years ago. We live in the here and now, and despite the challenge of time moving on, it is not moral or Christian to blithely accept the impregnation of young teenage women with the seed of any man, old or young, without their consent and/or legality to place consent, especially when these young women are placed in the position to choose between status quo and their own souls; that is why there is a major problem. When any of the men you are speaking for stands up and faces the laws of the greater society they live in (you�re not in a cocoon, sorry), and supports every single one of their offspring, without allowing them to take welfare, and/or move to another state to dodge the laws of decency, then you might have a leg to stand on, maybe. Until then, perpetrators of these crimes are just that, criminals; preying on the vulnerability of innocence and it does not matter which religion they ascribe to, it is still most certainly wrong.
Gregory in SC | 11:14 a.m. May 6, 2008
I think a quote in the book "Freedom," by C.S. Lewis a famous
Christian author and apologetic really fits the condition of this nation well -
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be
the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under
omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes
sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for
our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of
their own conscience."
ann mere | 12:38 p.m. May 6, 2008
I'm going to start a writing campaign to the U.S. Dept of Justice that they
should take all necessary actions to investigate & prosecute the religious
criminal conspiracies which are financing their activities with U.S. public
taxes though
U.S. grants,
DOD contracts,
food stamps,
Aid to families with dependent children,
& other government assistance
given to these polygamous spiritual "wives" who are posing as single mothers yet living as multiple wives in communal situations. It is called FRAUD.
Will some of you join me?
U.S. grants,
DOD contracts,
food stamps,
Aid to families with dependent children,
& other government assistance
given to these polygamous spiritual "wives" who are posing as single mothers yet living as multiple wives in communal situations. It is called FRAUD.
Will some of you join me?
Protect the children | 3:36 a.m. May 8, 2008
I absolutely disagree with Shurtleff. It is NEVER too far to protect children
and young women and men from abusive and oppresive situations like those at
YFZ.
The state must absolutely find a way to help these youngsters.
The state must absolutely find a way to help these youngsters.
Paul | 12:44 a.m. May 9, 2008
I won't join in making false accusations, Ann. None of the people in this
Texas community received welfare.
Yes, protect the children. Return them to their moms and dads, who love them.
Yes, protect the children. Return them to their moms and dads, who love them.
Anne | 1:10 p.m. May 9, 2008
Statutory rape laws are stupid, arbitrary and unconstitutional. They are nothing
but a tool for selective prosecution of religious groups. It really scares me
that anyone could be foolish enough to not know the difference between a 14 year
old woman and a child. That is some good brainwashing. A young woman should have
the right to get married when she wants to the husband she wants and have babies
when she wants without some no good bigoted busy bodies second guessing her. How
about a womans right to live peacefully on a farm with her family on a farm
without having to worry about the gestapo swooping in to steal her happy
children and wisk them off to the foster care Gulag.
To those of you worried about welfare fraud ...
The adoption and foster care are subsidized by your tax dollars you are now losing more money than you were before.
FOSTER PARENT = FAKE PARENT ON WELFARE
ADOPTIVE PARENT = FAKE PARENT ON WELFARE
The damaged children will be kicked to the curb as soon as they turn 18.
I'm disgusted that this could happen to such clean living people. Nobody is safe if they aren't.
To those of you worried about welfare fraud ...
The adoption and foster care are subsidized by your tax dollars you are now losing more money than you were before.
FOSTER PARENT = FAKE PARENT ON WELFARE
ADOPTIVE PARENT = FAKE PARENT ON WELFARE
The damaged children will be kicked to the curb as soon as they turn 18.
I'm disgusted that this could happen to such clean living people. Nobody is safe if they aren't.
freethinker | 3:27 p.m. Nov. 16, 2008
Leave the FLDS people alone they should be allowed to worship as they please. No
amount of self-righteousness or indignation should bring raids on people simply
because they are different from the majority church. Use your best logic to see
the freedoms assured by the constitution are being whittled away and the FLDS
matter is the prime example.
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Attorneys General Mark Shurtleff, of Utah, and Terry Goddard, above, of Arizona have been on hot seat.
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Sounds like inductive reasoning to me. As a BYU fan, you induce your...
...in making these comments has put himself on the radical(ugly)side of the...
Sylvesters comments that he "hates losing" are an insult to losers...
I'm hopeful Max's remarks and subsequent apology, along with the furor around...
Max didn't believe he deserved to win that game and tried for 60 minutes to...
You're right on with this one.
most people would react the same way if their family was treated that way...I...
Boise offered to play ANYONE this season and NOBODY accepted. Its not...
As an active LDS member AND UofU graduate and fan, I appreciate and accept...
..from his religious teachings...turn the other cheek.
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