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'Cultural guide' helps Texans understand FLDS children
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Paul | 10:28 p.m. May 3, 2008
Now, they're playing the race card. They'll try anything to excuse
their violations of these people's civil rights. Perhaps they could remove
children from the Nation of Islam now. They're on the SPLC's (hate
sells) watch list too. They're just throwing whatever they can against the
wall, hoping that something will stick. This seems like the continuation of a
media smear campaign (hoax phone call, falsely accused Barlow, sex ceremonies on
a temple bed, cyanide, abused boys writing in journals, abnormally high rate of
broken bones, racist kids, alleged pedophiles, old men "wedding"
13-year-olds, etc.) designed to demonize these people in the eyes of the
public. And the sheep in Nancy Grace's flock say, "baaaahhhh".
Bruce | 10:31 p.m. May 3, 2008
FLDS seems to be full of loving, caring, decent people that just want to be left
the he** alone.
There is no "hate" for other races..just a desire to exercise their right to raise their children in an environment separate from secular society and it's idea that multiculturalism is somehow "right".
The crap that's being spewed regarding Warren Jeffs could be said about spiritual leaders throughout history.
Being convicted of crimes is not, in and of itself, an indication of wrongdoing.
Many spiritual leaders were "criminals" and jailed for it.
Folks like the apostle Paul, John the Baptist, and Jesus come to mind.
There is no "hate" for other races..just a desire to exercise their right to raise their children in an environment separate from secular society and it's idea that multiculturalism is somehow "right".
The crap that's being spewed regarding Warren Jeffs could be said about spiritual leaders throughout history.
Being convicted of crimes is not, in and of itself, an indication of wrongdoing.
Many spiritual leaders were "criminals" and jailed for it.
Folks like the apostle Paul, John the Baptist, and Jesus come to mind.
Comments continue below
Alex | 12:20 a.m. May 4, 2008
My father (who is an attorney) once told me that many times, a good case can
make bad law. In this case for example, suppose that both contentions end up
being true. Namely, suppose the CPS really had no probable cause to go in, and
in fact violated the FLDS civil rights. Now lets suppose that although the CPS
had no justifiable reason to go in, that they just happened to make a good guess
this time. Lets go further and pretend that the case ended up being a slam dunk
for the CPS, sending most of the FLDS men to prison and taking away most of the
children away from their mothers permanently. Now imagine the CPS citing this
"triumph of justice" to persuade a judge to justify a raid on another
group that does not "conform" to societal norms. That is a dangerous
precedent, even if justice is rightly done. For heaven's sake, the CPS
already has enough power to be dangerous, without adding this sort of precedent
to their arsenal.
Anonymous | 1:31 a.m. May 4, 2008
Let me see, why would they make derogatory remarks? Being removed from my family
as a child would probably make me hate my captors too. I would probably make
remarks to offend.
Dixiedarling4u2 | 3:44 a.m. May 4, 2008
WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!!!!!
IT IS NOT ABOUT THE RELIGION....IT IS ABOUT THE CHILDREN. THE FLDS CHURCH AND FOLLOWING WHO SEPERATE THEMSELVES FROM THE REST OF CIVILIZATION STILL ARE REQUIRED TO FOLLOW THE LAWS OF THE LAND. IF THEY CHOOSE TO LIVE DIFFERENTLY THEN THEY SHOULD LEAVE AMERICA AND FIND ANOTHER PLACE TO COMMIT INCEST. THIS IS UNACCEPTABLE. THESE CHILDREN HAVE BEEN TAKEN ADVANTAGE LONG ENOUGH. IT SIMPLY AMAZES ME THAT TUNNEL VISION AND TUNNEL THOUGHTS LEAD TO UNACCEPTABLE THINKING. INCEST IS INCEST IS INCEST.
IT IS NOT ABOUT THE RELIGION....IT IS ABOUT THE CHILDREN. THE FLDS CHURCH AND FOLLOWING WHO SEPERATE THEMSELVES FROM THE REST OF CIVILIZATION STILL ARE REQUIRED TO FOLLOW THE LAWS OF THE LAND. IF THEY CHOOSE TO LIVE DIFFERENTLY THEN THEY SHOULD LEAVE AMERICA AND FIND ANOTHER PLACE TO COMMIT INCEST. THIS IS UNACCEPTABLE. THESE CHILDREN HAVE BEEN TAKEN ADVANTAGE LONG ENOUGH. IT SIMPLY AMAZES ME THAT TUNNEL VISION AND TUNNEL THOUGHTS LEAD TO UNACCEPTABLE THINKING. INCEST IS INCEST IS INCEST.
Cathy | 8:16 a.m. May 4, 2008
it's simply culture shock. the same if the kids were placed in a foriegn
country. they will see manners of dress and hear things they have never been
exposed to. Thanks to a system who thinks a crime has been committed and oput
the cart before the horse. rape,ect is a crime. IF it happened.
A greater crime is young children being ripped from their mothers,traumatized beyond measure and expected to adjust in the hands of strangers. All because of phone call, It's scary.
by the way, I was a fost
A greater crime is young children being ripped from their mothers,traumatized beyond measure and expected to adjust in the hands of strangers. All because of phone call, It's scary.
by the way, I was a fost
A girl that left says this | 8:50 a.m. May 4, 2008
If you go to youtube you will hear for yourself, a young woman that left who
states that the FLDS are waiting for girls to get older. That matches the
Bishop records which show that girls are at least 16 before they marry and which
is legal. "Warren Jeffs Teen Flees FLDS raw footage" is the title of
the video and it is at about minute 3:40. The children now seem to have been
removed for no valid reason.
John | 1:02 p.m. May 4, 2008
Dixiedarling; Why are you slandering these flds people with lies?
For the record: there is No incest.
There are No charges; this is per a court statement:
...""the state's experts acknowledged that the sect mothers are loving parents and that there were no signs of abuse among younger girls and any of the boys.
Under cross-examination, state child-welfare investigator Angie Voss conceded there have been no allegations of abuse against babies, prepubescent girls or any boys."
Can you read dixie?
There have been NO allegations of abuse ! ! ! !
Why are you slandering these people? What do you hope to accomplish by creating lies against there Innocent people?
For the record: there is No incest.
There are No charges; this is per a court statement:
...""the state's experts acknowledged that the sect mothers are loving parents and that there were no signs of abuse among younger girls and any of the boys.
Under cross-examination, state child-welfare investigator Angie Voss conceded there have been no allegations of abuse against babies, prepubescent girls or any boys."
Can you read dixie?
There have been NO allegations of abuse ! ! ! !
Why are you slandering these people? What do you hope to accomplish by creating lies against there Innocent people?
Paul | 10:03 p.m. May 4, 2008
Dixiedarlng, where is there proof of "incest is incest is incest" in
this Texas community? Innuendo is innuendo is innuendo. This is 2008. We no
longer hunt and kill witches based on mass hysteria.
Anonymous | 10:03 p.m. May 4, 2008
Who's going to make any allegations? These people are scared spitless by
their leaders to say anything to anybody. It's not right to reassign
family members, assign girls to old men...I don't care if they are 16,
that's still too young!!! They should be able to choose what they want to
do.!!!!
Stupid Is As Stupid Does | 10:41 p.m. May 4, 2008
and the innocent children pay the price...
scared | 7:32 a.m. May 5, 2008
You claim the FLDS are "scared," but even Caroliine Jessop admits that
wheh Warren Jeffs banned the color red form clothing, many women continued to
wear read until that clothing wore out. It doesn't sound like everybody
blindly obeys him to me. While I started off opposed to the FLDS, after
continued reading I have since switched, especially after hearing the woman at
captivefldschildren ask the sheriff to see a warrant. He stated that the
"main man and attorney" had the warrant and he could not get that to
her. I liken that to a warrant for my subdivision and the sheriff checking my
house. This seems to be religious prosecution particularly with the news that
AKON admits to practicing polygamy. Why not remove his children, since ALL
polygamist must practice exactly the same way and all must commit child abuse,
rape, and incest even when Caroline Jessop admits that not all practice with the
same fundamentalism one to another.
John | 1:18 p.m. May 5, 2008
It looks like the people the FLDS woman are most terrified of are jackbooted
thugs kidnappng their children at gunpoint, and the witchunt crowd who applaud
lynch mob justice without any crimes being broken.
Anonymous | 2:45 a.m. May 6, 2008
ok. I just watched some of the stuff on You Tube and it convinced me that these
FLDS people are really living a pitiful nightmare of an existence and that Texas
did the right thing. Warren Jeffs is just the creepiest person I have ever seen
and these men are getting away with terrible things and I really feel sorry for
the women and the children and the little boys. Absolute power corrupts and
these men and their police state remind me of the worst situations around the
world where freedom is robbed from the people. Girls and women wouldn't be
trying to run away if they had any freedom. Transporting young girls across the
border to Canada? Possible murders? I think more needs to be done to help
these women and children escape. I'm all for raids in Utah, Arizona, Canada
and where ever else they are trying to get away with this evil.
KJ | 7:10 p.m. May 6, 2008
I am surprised by how melodramatic people's descriptions are of the massive
levels of fallout they anticipate from this situation - outside of
Utah/Arizona/Texas, this story is OFF the front pages and has been for days.
America has lost interest. I have been following this story for a while but I
know that where I live, the FLDS is completely unknown to most.
Anonymous | 9:18 p.m. May 6, 2008
Dropping off the radar screen does not end their suffering.
some confusion still | 4:59 p.m. May 7, 2008
It seems there is still confusion over the warrant.
Let me TRY to help.
The initial warrant was to look for "Sarah". After they arrived and began looking for Sarah, they requested another warrant. The second warrant is the one used to remove the children.
The warrants (like all property warrants) were to search one piece of property. The one piece happened to have many structures (in this case many were homes) on it. It was not a subdivision. It was never divided! It was and is ONE piece of property with one owner. One piece of property can be searched ENTIRLY by one search warrant!
Scare tactics like "it could happen in your subdivision" should not be listened to because their intent is to scare you.
Let me TRY to help.
The initial warrant was to look for "Sarah". After they arrived and began looking for Sarah, they requested another warrant. The second warrant is the one used to remove the children.
The warrants (like all property warrants) were to search one piece of property. The one piece happened to have many structures (in this case many were homes) on it. It was not a subdivision. It was never divided! It was and is ONE piece of property with one owner. One piece of property can be searched ENTIRLY by one search warrant!
Scare tactics like "it could happen in your subdivision" should not be listened to because their intent is to scare you.
some confusion cont. | 5:23 p.m. May 7, 2008
When Child Protection Agencies go into a home they take all the children
initially even if only one child has signs of abuse. In cases where the abuse
involves children locked in closets and treated like animals while the other
children lead �normal� lives, all the
children are removed. In this case the
�home� happens to include several
homes because they are all on one piece of property not subdivided. If they had
all cooperated with the authorities then some of the children would probably be
home right now. The lying only fueled the fire that abuse was prevalent within
the group.
PICKLES | 2:53 p.m. May 9, 2008
It's amazing what 1 rumor can lead to...I grew up around some of the FLDS
and you can't live by rumor.They DO NOT live 99% of what the
Media,Flora,The Fawns,Carolyn have indicated,,,they do live the laws of the land.BUT THEY FEAR GOD MORE THEN MAN!!!!Take it the way you want but rememeber GOD is the JUGDE and he'll make up the difference.SO MY SUGGESSTION IS BE CAREFUL HOW YOU JUGDE YOUR NEIGHBOR...EVEN IF IT'S THE BLACK MAN DOWN YOUR ROOOAD!oh...and TEXAS SEND THE CHILDREN HOME THEY NEED THEIR MOTHERS...AND THEIR MOTHERS NEED THEM!!!
Media,Flora,The Fawns,Carolyn have indicated,,,they do live the laws of the land.BUT THEY FEAR GOD MORE THEN MAN!!!!Take it the way you want but rememeber GOD is the JUGDE and he'll make up the difference.SO MY SUGGESSTION IS BE CAREFUL HOW YOU JUGDE YOUR NEIGHBOR...EVEN IF IT'S THE BLACK MAN DOWN YOUR ROOOAD!oh...and TEXAS SEND THE CHILDREN HOME THEY NEED THEIR MOTHERS...AND THEIR MOTHERS NEED THEM!!!
grandma in Illinois | 6:42 p.m. May 14, 2008
Living a moral simple life dressed like 'Little House'and eating whole
foods is not bad. Marrying (spritual or otherwise)underage girls as plural wives
is bad. Taking nursing infants and toddlers from mothers is pyschologically
damaging to both = bad. Not teaching psychology( or history, health, etc) is
bad.Procreating with close-blood relatives is bad. Not teaching that there are
choices in life is bad. Everyone on this board has a choice to be here and voice
a differing opinion. I would not cast anyone out for that opinion. I do not ask
blind obedience like the leader of the FLDS asks of his followers. Neither is
CPS is all knowing or infallible. The Texas & the US, bless 'em, have
made many mistakes in making laws, that's why they get ammended. Changing
the age of consent from 14 to 16 was a good one. Maybe changing the power of the
CPS might also be good, or maybe having more than one agency for balance. One
radical thought should not be replaced with an opposite radical thought.
taylors seven | 7:43 p.m. May 18, 2008
In this age of homosexual marriage, 50% of children born out of wedlock and
rampant sexual immorality glamorized on television - plural marriage seems
benign. The State of Texas based their raid on a crank call and then fired the
mental health workers who indicated the children had no signs of abuse and that
the mothers were obviously loving and caring. What happened in Texas is truly an
outrage. These people choose to live their lives in a community removed from the
world. The Amish do the same. Muslims also practice plural marriage. Underage
girls get married everyday - hundreds of underage girls give birth out of
wed-lock everyday. Why aren't they being ripped from their homes? Why
aren't those who impregnated underage girls arrested and sentenced to 10
years of prison like Warren Jeffs? It seems religious persecution is alive and
well. We should all be trying to help these people get their children back. If
we are to be Latter Day Saints - then we should show pure charity to these
people who share similar values and beliefs. The country and press should stop
listening to the rantings of a few apostates from the FLDS sect.
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Good question, MC.
Muslims have pledged to destroy America as we know it and institute Sharia Law. This is a fact. They have made significant inroads in several countries in Western Europe, as we speak. If Muslim immigration to the United States continues at its current pace they will soon have a large enough group to challenge anything the government (CPS) may try to do to remove children from a harmful environment. The FLDS was raided because of its very small, easily overpowered size.