Deseret News | Reader comments: Warrant dropped in FLDS raid

Reader comments
Warrant dropped in FLDS raid

Gnostic | 5:04 p.m. May 2, 2008

Letï¿½s call it what it is - the states pogrom of ethnic cleansing.

Some folks are OK with this behavior from their government - I am not OK with government abuses. No one supports child abuse yet we accommodate the conditions of abuse that the Texas CPS represents. When the topic of civil liberties comes up we ask what about the children that were alleged abused? Indeed, the children - what about the civil liberties of the over 400 children condemned to incarceration as wards of the state?

A careful review of the facts around the first search warrant will most likely prove a conspiracy on the part of government officials to deprive the entire community of their civil liberties.

Gnostic | 5:06 p.m. May 2, 2008

Jill | 5:13 p.m. May 2, 2008

If the "ethnicity" that is being "cleansed" is that of pedophiles and dirty old men that twist the Lord's teachings into utter mind control... then I'm right there with Texas CPS. Anyone that believes a 14, 15, 16, 17, or 18 year old girl would want to willingly marry a 40, 50, 60 year old man (to become his who knows what number of wife) and then nearly immediately have sex with him (after not even being allowed to so much as hold hands with boys before this), must have been subject to the same brainwashing that goes on in the FLDS cult.

It's really hard to believe that nothing has been done before now. Plural marriage is illegal - if FLDS cult members think it should be otherwise, then lobby the government, don't just build a fort and hold women and children prisoner to get your way.

Comments continue below

Civil Liberties | 5:16 p.m. May 2, 2008

We do not have Civil Liberties in America
You can see the Texas Government does not recognize any
You have no Constitutional rights in Utah courts
Charged and convicted
They want you to hire a stupid Lawyer
Now you are indebt to your ears

Monica P. | 5:26 p.m. May 2, 2008

A _Dallas News_ article dated November 5, 2007, noted that "Texas teens lead nation in birth rate." It went on to note that for 24 percent of those teens, the baby was not their first.

It looks as though there are a lot of young girls in Texas that could use the protection of CPS. I hope they are as vigilant in helping the rest of the state's girls as they are these "weird" polygamists.

Child abuse gone arye | 5:39 p.m. May 2, 2008

This abuse is taking place all across the U.S. of A. People only want to believe the government in the case in Texas. What I see is the county in Texas being mostly Southern Babtist the main accusers of the LDS, let alone the FLDS, pulling off one of the biggest crimes in the US. Over 400 children taken from a safe enviroment to being held in places that the CPS acknowledges they are not sure where they may be. BLIND! BLIND! AND BLLINDDDD!

Lime | 6:19 p.m. May 2, 2008

Ya, these youung girls are forced into marriage, forced to have sex and are beat in to submission and are eventially the promoters of this life style for their children and grandchildren, but we have to remember what the protection of the constitution. So kids are being terrorized, raped and molested, but we have our constitution! Oh how glorious this country will be as long as we keep our civil liberties in tact. Someday day when you stand before the judgement bar of god, you can say: Ya those kids were brutilized and I didn't really make my voice heard for their protection, but I was always a promoter of our civil liberties!

Bruce | 7:41 p.m. May 2, 2008

There are several sites that show the shameful record of children caught up in the Texas CPS. Rape, molestation, and even death are rampant. A hundred fold more prevalent than the alleged abuses that they were "saved" from. Something to the effect of 70% of kids grabbed by those people end up in jail. That's the ones that survive it.
Texas should clean up their ghettos and barrios and realize that just because young ladies are not mature enough to marry in mainstream Texas society, that it doesn't mean they all are. Their changing that marriage age from 14 to 16 was directed toward the FLDS because its done nothing to curtail their ghetto teen pregnancies. Of course, those don't get married anyway.

Herb B. | 8:03 p.m. May 2, 2008

I sometimes wonder about my own life and family. Are we OK? This happening helps me feel like maybe we are OK and decent.

Keep Looking | 10:06 p.m. May 2, 2008

If there is abuse going on with the FLDS then they need to continue the investigation. I for one think that the authorities will find a lot more hidden surprises within the FLDS cultists.

David S | 10:22 p.m. May 2, 2008

What did they find when they got there? Property they could take and search through later, and people--kids they could take and interrogate and study in a DNA lab. Why? In the HOPE of building a case...a case that was based on suspicion.

They didn't find their trusted inside informant, because she didn't exist, but they sure took advantage of the chance to grab anything and anyone they could.

What Texas is doing is not based on specific evidence of crimes committed by specific people; it is based on knowledge of POSSIBLE crimes (which of course are repulsive) committed by people within a community. But the gross error and injustice and outrage is the taking of hundreds of children from MANY parents who are most certainly innocent of crimes themselves--who are only guilty of associating with some who might be guilty.

The burden of Due Process makes prosecution and punishment hard...for a reason: to protect the innocent. Even if guilt is found in this INVESTIGATION it will have come at the cost of our trust in the Law. Should we turn Due Process on its ear in our haste to produce results? What happens when we're wrong?

Is it gossip or truth? | 10:25 p.m. May 2, 2008

Jill. Where do you get your "facts". How do you know these girls did not marry someone 2 or 3 years older? Why do you assume everything you read is true. Anybody can put anything on the internet and apparently in Texas, CPS can say whatever they want. If you are old enough to remember, and even if you are not, then look up the allegations Texas made to justify Waco. Then read the entire story of Ruby Ridge..This will open your eyes a bit to the abuse of power by the government. The biggest crime, is when citizens of the United States Of America, with a constitution, stand back and allow the violation of these laws.Even if you dislike the citizens being treated this way.
Just because somebody "said or presumed or alledged" something, or just because it is written on the internet or in the newspaper, does not make it a truth.
Herb B. You are right to be worried. If you belong to a Church, and continue to attend even though you are aware that abuses have or might occur because of heirachy of power, then your children may be taken next.

To: Jill | 10:34 p.m. May 2, 2008

I agree with you. You must know some of these people as I have too. JILL IS CORRECT!!!

To-10:25.... Some of us know!!!----Do you? It's not gossip!

Bob | 10:55 p.m. May 2, 2008

Jill

I haven't heard the CPS talk about pedophiles and dirty old men. It seems to be mainly 17 year olds married to 22 year olds. They also say nothing about brainwashing. Their whole case is based on pregnant girls who are under 18.

As for plural marriage, it is not illegal. Some states (including Texas) have tried to make it so, but they always fail because higher courts never uphold convictions.

I can tell that you really hate these people, but you're going to have to contain your darker impulses, because the rest of the US will not allow it. These people will get their kids and their community back, along with a very large payment for their trouble compliments of you and the rest of Texas's taxpayers.

Have a nice day.

Jokers | 11:28 p.m. May 2, 2008

I have never read so much talk about nothing on a post in days. Half of you people don't know day from night or right from wrong.

I hope the authorities get the FLDS sex perpetrators. It all make me sick.

Have a nice night.

Joe | 1:17 a.m. May 3, 2008

Sorry, Bob, but plural marriage is illegal (perhaps you are unfamiliar with the term "bigamy.") Tom Green thought bigamy laws didn't apply to him, flaunted the law, resulting in 6 years in prison.

And while we are so concerned about the constitution and due process, what about the many families separated when husband falls out of favor and the wives and children are reassigned to other men by church leaders? Where are their rights? Since many of the marriages are only "spiritual" rather than legal marriages, do these biological fathers have no protection, let alone those children separated from their fathers? Where are the tears and outrage on their behalf (especially if they are not dirty old men with multiple wives)?

Here's a hint; when investigators knock on your door and start asking questions, providing complete, accurate, consistent answers to their questions will save you a lot of misunderstanding and grief. Lie, evade, and change your story will result in forcing the government to sort it all out. And if you try and lead a lifestyle exempt from laws and accountability, sooner or later, the government will be forced to demonstrate that you are, indeed, not exempt.

Joe | 1:45 a.m. May 3, 2008

A last comment or two.

How many young pregnant girls must be observed by CPS before they would conclude that girls below the age of consent are being systematically impregnated? Once they see apparent evidence, would you expect them to turn a blind eye and walk away?

Did FLDS leaders provide birth certificates for each child, demonstrating that they were above the age of consent? What would a reasonable person conclude is the reason for not presenting those records?

How many young boys must turn up in St. George, without any visible means of support, stating that they were kicked out of their homes before you would conclude that maybe their mothers apparently love some children more than others? Isn't the double standard obvious...mothers crying for their young children taken away by CPS, but deafening silence as to the plight of their young sons no longer welcomed into the community (oh right, no lost boys in Texas, only in Utah)? Now, reports of kids with broken bones...

Sure, blame the government. Kids who don't even necessarily know who their mother or father is, don't necessarily know their birth date. No documents for marriages or births; blame the government!

me | 1:19 a.m. May 6, 2008

The State is not after these FLDS just because they practice polygamy. They are really just a bunch of people living together. They are not legally married. There is alot of men and women who are not married but living together. That is NOT illegal. What they are going after, is the abuse of children. Young girls underage who have been "given" to men for sex and to have babies. Young boys who are thrown out so as not to be around for the young girls to become interested in. As for the teenage girls thru out TX who are having babies, aren't most of those babies daddy's teens also? You cannot go after the FLDS for polygamy, but they need to gone after for using the young girls in the manner in which they choose to multiply and replenish thier community.

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