Deseret News | Feds are stymied in probes of FLDS

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Feds are stymied in probes of FLDS

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Deborah | 5:50 p.m. May 4, 2008

What I don't understand why there hasn't been a federal task force on this issue. Harry Reid ask for a federal investigation in 2006 and nothing was done. This does not look good. There appears to be repeated violations of the Mann act, also what looks like the transfer of money across state lines to support what appears be a criminal conspiracy to commit massive welfare fraud. It looks very suspicious not to have the federal government involved. You look at the federal contracts that that this group had and the federal government not taking action on this criminal behavior and if gives the appearance of some type of collusion. If the federal government does not get involved this is what it would appear to the public that there is some kind of collusion between someone in the federal government and people of FLDS. . It already appears that there is collusion between the state governments of Utah and Arizona and the FLDS because of various actions and inactions that these state governments have taken.

On Rape | 6:55 p.m. May 4, 2008

There has been no suggestionm even by CPS, that any child has been raped. A warrant for an entire subdivision would be considered invalid. Ask yourself why you deem it acceptable simply because they hold religious beliefs that your former prophets also professed from the pulpit. Jessop even stated that when Warren banned the COlor red, some continued to wear it while others did not. Clearly they think as individuals and not as one, so why the judgement on the many based on one? On youtube I heard a young woman discuss how she was aware that they (the flds authorities) were waiting to marry girls and not marrying them so young. Based on my daughter's school, 16 is not outrageous to marry and have a child. Based on the Bishop's records, not every young girl marries and old man but often marry within what appears age appropriate. Do I wish differently for my own? Of course and in a few short months she will be off to university.

Thank you "Organized Religion" | 7:05 p.m. May 4, 2008

Your comments were very good! I think too many are missing the point when they talk about the rights in religion to think what they want. I guess it's their right to think it, but it's not their right to force others to think that way too. In a democratic society we should each be given the options and ideas in life and be able to make a decision for ourselves. These young people and many women have not been given that right and it's about time something was done. What about the "right" of common sense? It does not make sense to believe some of the ridiculous things that religion has put on people .

Comments continue below

what don't you get? | 9:02 a.m. May 5, 2008

For those that keep saying "would it be fair to raid multiple houses with one search warrant..." -
This was one compound, deemed to be one "household". The walls and watchtower defined this as one Unit, so the warrant (and need to remove all children) was because these people segragated themselves so much that the entire compound had to be one facility. So stop saying they raided an entire subdivision. You just sound ignorant when you say that.

Rights | 9:08 a.m. May 5, 2008

What of the Right to practice religion as you beleive? Gay marriages is legal in some states, why not polygamy? Since men are having babies with multiple women, why not legitimize these kids? You claim the women have no rights, based on what knowledge? Have you lived in the community? Or, are you basing it on anti-flds while protesting the comments by anti-mormons as inaccurate. 16 year olds in the flds community are getting married and pregnant, in that order while outside the community they are often just pregnant. One validates his wife and child, even if too young for your own comfort, while the other does not. Bizarrely, you condemn the man that legitimizes the woman and child honoring her in marriage (though often not legal since that results in legal action.) This religious marriage reminds me of gay marriage beginnings with ceremonies over legal weddings. You condemn one, but accept gay marriage. You claim child rape because on 1 persons experience, but there is no evidence of such based CPS words. You cry incest, yet profess the bible. Abraham's wife was his half sister. Isaac married his cousin. Lot has children with his daughters. No wonder I'm agnostic.

TO "what don't you get?" | 9:23 a.m. May 5, 2008

My subdivision has a guard at the front. If you are not a resident, the barricade remains down. The guard calls to ask if I approve entry. The community is surrounded by a wall. I guarantee you that we are not one household. The FLDS have 19 different buildings and many apartments (would you suggest 1 warrant for an entire apartment building next? As far as your claims of my ignorance (ad hominem), my husband is an attorney and we have discussed this. Be careful of removing the rights of others for it is your rights that might be trampled next.
You act as though each individual has no brain of mind of self. We know this is not true based on the words of Caroline Jessop. She stated that Warren Jeffs banned the color red from clothing and women responded differently with some continuing to wear that color.
CPS stated that they have no knowledge of child rape. It is libel to suggest otherwise.
Again though, my community also has a guard building and the entire community is surrounded. Would you also find it acceptable to remove all our children with one warrant? You are next.

The Texan | 3:59 p.m. May 5, 2008

Those of you slamming CPS need to grow up. You have no clue as to what you're saying. FLDS still on here making wild accusations. Like a bunch of lemmings racing to be first over the cliff.

This went down by the book, they followed all the procedures. They're on the laws side. The FLDS aren't, no matter how you try to color what happened.

To "what don't you get?" | 4:02 p.m. May 5, 2008

You seem to think all laws are broken out in public. What a naive comment. Your husband is an attorney, not a very good one, I note.
It's a ranch, little one. They had one address, it's not a town, just a large ranch. Not very smart of them was it?

13 year old girl is pregnant. That's child rape. Under Texas law. You don't know anything. Stop posting until you get an education.

to FLDS posters | 4:58 p.m. May 5, 2008

ANYONE that feels the CPS overstepped their bounds or thinks that the FLDS should be left alone is either FLDS themselves or has no compassion for the women and children being brainwashed by the FLDS. These fanatics do not allow women nor children to experience the basic freedoms that we hold dear. They are held hostage to bizarre concepts drilled into them since birth, WITH NO OPTION TO SEE THE REAL WORLD. If FLDS would simply preach at an open church and let the people live normal lives so they can see the real world, instead of hiding behind huge walls and guardtowers, then probably none of this would have happened. (Of course, they would probably only have 50 members, and they'd all be old men, but that's their problem....)

Jill | 11:43 a.m. May 6, 2008

I love how some of you state as "FACTS" what the FLDS women say, but ANYTHING said by CPS is a fabricated lie. CPS has to respect the children's right to privacy, but the others can say whatever they want. Happens all the time. The accused parents have a campaign blitz stating how evil and bad CPS is, then in court, CPS shows all the proof, the anal rape scars, the multiple fractures and broken bones in several different stages of healing, the pregnant 14 yr olds married to 70 yr olds, ETC ETC ETC. Then, guess what Media blitz over, because the media is so freaking embarrassed that they ever fell for the heinous criminals lies and put them on the news and factual.

Shagira | 3:15 p.m. May 6, 2008

The FLDS is in trouble here and I totally agree that underage girls shouldn't have to marry men that are old enough to be their grandfathers. But even so, I understand that a part of their religion is plural marriage. I have relatives in AZ who are part of this sect and it breaks my heart to know that they accepted this religion completely. But not every underage girl is given in marriage to a 50-something man. This should be tried on a case by case basis not a communtiy basis.

Women should know | 9:36 p.m. May 6, 2008

That they don't have to live this way! I have studied up and women in this community do not know this. Yes, it's bad if young girls are ordered to marry older men. But it's also bad for women, in general, to not know that they have options in this world. Women are human beings with God given rights too! We need to stand up for those rights. Sure, there are young women in the general population that have problems with pregnancies too (at a young age). But these young women can get help with counseling, medical support and adoption services. These women we are talking about have no such support and are told this is what they must do to "get to heaven".

Paul | 4:37 a.m. May 7, 2008

Jill, prove just *one* of your sick allegations of abuse. Let's see the evidence. Propaganda and rumors from Nancy Grace don't count. Questionable innuendo from biased sources don't either. It's time to *force* the CPS gestapos to recognize the Fourth Amendment.

Cheryl | 7:50 a.m. May 7, 2008

This is not about religious persecution, this is about breaking the law. Yes, you are free to practice any religion you choose, AS LONG AS you are NOT breaking the laws of the state, country in which you choose to live. The older men who are taking "child brides" are indeed breaking the law. First off, they are not legally married to the young girls, so their is no such thing as parental consent if under the legal age of marriage. If they were legally married to these young females, they would not be committing the crime of "rape", but then they would be guilty of polygamy. It is in sense a "catch 22" for them. I personally feel very sorry for all of the mothers and children of both sexes. Brainwashed from birth. Boys being cast out, young brides, infants being "broken". What we, as a society, describe as abuse, they do not. I am intersted to see the complete outcome of this situation. I just pray for the safety of all persons involved.

Paul | 1:35 a.m. May 8, 2008

Cheryl, can you give *one* shred of evidence that *one* crime was committed by anyone in this specific case? Evidently, the state of Texas can't. However, a crime was committed by the mentally ill girl who tricked(?) the state.

Cheryl | 7:15 a.m. May 8, 2008

Paul, no I cannot give "one shred of evidence". I do not live in Texas, Utah, Colorado, or work for CPS, not involved in the FLDS either. What I do know is that it is my own personal opinion that the children were in danger. I feel that they are where they should be right now, until it is proven that they will be safe back at the compund. The allegations are pretty scary, and I personally think that they need to be really looked into. I also feel that some of the modest ways of life of the FLDS are admirable. It pretty much stops there for me. I think that since Jeffs has took over it has become increasingly scary. These are all of course my personal opinions. I have researched all of this the best that I could and read every article I could find, since I have heard about this. I am simply stating my opinion, as everybody else that commented has done. My opinion is that the children may be in danger. As well as some of the women. I could say a lot more, but I am hitting my 200 words.

Paul | 1:22 a.m. May 9, 2008

You're entitled to your opinion, Cheryl. I'm sure that you want what's best for the kids. I do too, which is why I think that they should be returned to their parents. CPS should be forced to base their decisions on evidence, not opinions.

Cheryl | 7:09 a.m. May 13, 2008

CPS did not base their decision on "opinions", I did.

Think!!!!! | 6:44 p.m. May 22, 2008

Don't you think that 45 days is long enough for children and mothers to be ripped from their homes, punished, ridiculed, interrigated, screamed at, drugged, lied to, seperated, accused, Tested, Tested, Tested etc.etc. only for CPS to STILL HAVE NOT FOUND ANY GROUNDS FOR THE RAID IN THE FIRST PLACE!!! Don't you think maybe, just MAYBE, these people really are working to live their religion the best they can and that maybe, just maybe, THERE IS NOT ANY ABUSE??? That maybe, just MAYBE those who keep screaming about the faults of the FLDS are telling lies that seem to get bigger with each new writer and publisher? (And maybe, just maybe this world just wants to hear bad so they make it real bad to sell their book?) That maybe, just Maybe PREJUDICE runs rampant against this people in this the USA, Land of the "Free?" (Of course for everyone except FLDS?) Those children need their mothers and after this long---Texas should work towards undoing the mess they got themselves into by accusation before investigation. It is the Children that are paying the greatest price for political pride.

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