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Texas says 41 FLDS children have broken bones, fractures
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G | 2:21 p.m. May 1, 2008
"
Forced teen pregnancy encouraged by church leaders and parents does not happen in any religion!!! "
You know, if your family is like most, at least one of your great-great-grandmothers, if not all of them, were likely to have barely been 15 years of age when they married. And their parents and church leaders (regardless of the denomination) would have been fine with it.
Forced teen pregnancy encouraged by church leaders and parents does not happen in any religion!!! "
You know, if your family is like most, at least one of your great-great-grandmothers, if not all of them, were likely to have barely been 15 years of age when they married. And their parents and church leaders (regardless of the denomination) would have been fine with it.
TO QQQ | 2:29 p.m. May 1, 2008
An underage 15 year old who had given birth to a 50yr olds child. At 16 she
called the cops because she had fought him off on several occassions. If a 16yr
regrets having sex with some who is 50. He is going to jail. Why because he
should not have been having sex with a 16 yr old. These older men have a
responsiblity to be looking out for these young girls. They are in the girls
circle of influence. Its the same reason why we dont want cross dressing
teachers in our public school. So he violated that confidence by allowing (it
does not matter if she wanted it or not) himself to have sex with a girl that
young. He should be chemically castrated.
Seriously, Keep the kids, give them mothers and fathers back their cyanide instructions and ship them to Africa. Let Jeffs out but rename him jones. Take UEP assets and create a trust to take care of these poor confused children.
Seriously, Keep the kids, give them mothers and fathers back their cyanide instructions and ship them to Africa. Let Jeffs out but rename him jones. Take UEP assets and create a trust to take care of these poor confused children.
Comments continue below
wrz | 2:33 p.m. May 1, 2008
>>The Constitution trumps all only if you are a Constitutionalist...
>...otherwise there are amendments to the Constitution which were intended
from its inception. >Again, human sacrifice IS not protected under the
Constitution because of its actions nor is polygamy.<<
We are not talking about human sacrifice. We are talking about rounding up innocent women and children against their will and incarcerating them. That is what they call "kidnapping." Nazi Germany did it. We would hate to see it get a foot-hold in America.
We are not talking about human sacrifice. We are talking about rounding up innocent women and children against their will and incarcerating them. That is what they call "kidnapping." Nazi Germany did it. We would hate to see it get a foot-hold in America.
G | 2:35 p.m. May 1, 2008
"We are not talking about human sacrifice."
No. CPS won't release those allegations until about the middle of next week.
No. CPS won't release those allegations until about the middle of next week.
to wzr | 2:44 p.m. May 1, 2008
NO we are talking about a public outcry because of various complaints reguaring
underage sexual abuse, emotion and physical abuse. Texas cps officals felt there
was a reason to remove the kids. The law says they can because of so many
instances where they lost kids to situations they could have prevented by
intervening. Just cause they build a wall does not mean they are exempt. In
Georgia a black kid only 18 years old went to jail as an adult because he
received oral sex from a 16 year old. Was that right? Well...it took sometime
but the public outcry was against a harsh punishment. Because the majority of
americans feel this is an abusive situation the calls for returning the kids are
not really getting attention. Noone wants to hear a robotic plea. Prove the case
in front of a jury of your peers....what you say the jury will be normal texans?
I bet they elect for a Judge instead of jury. Then they can say he was biased or
in on the presecution. OMG guess that public outcry will be your undoing. Fair?
Yea as long as you are in The GOOD OLD USA.
Hi | 2:45 p.m. May 1, 2008
I still haven't seen the ratio of the teen girls versus teen boys
answered.
Anyone? Why is there so few boys?
Anyone? Why is there so few boys?
Alex Trebek | 2:49 p.m. May 1, 2008
A medical doctor on the Nancy Grace show last night shared the stats: The
American Journal of Medicine states that only 1/2 of 1% of 1000 kids will have
broken bones. That's a very small percentage. That makes those FLDS
people look like abusive thugs. Throw them all in jail!
Defending FLDS? | 2:53 p.m. May 1, 2008
Most intelligent people will condemn the outrageous abuse of power by Texas
officials against the FLDS community. That is NOT the same thing as defending
the religious beliefs of this group.
Re: qqq | 2:54 p.m. May 1, 2008
"She testified that she said "I do.""
She was forced into the marriage and she was underage, therefore, it was illegal for her to give consent, therefore, any sex with her 19-year-old cousin was statutory rape.
She was forced into the marriage and she was underage, therefore, it was illegal for her to give consent, therefore, any sex with her 19-year-old cousin was statutory rape.
Anony | 2:54 p.m. May 1, 2008
"Gee, I can't imagine any 14-year-old girl who wouldn't want to
be forced to marry and have sex with her 19-year-old cousin."
My guess is that there are women from 14 to 104 who don't want to have sex... Even with their husbands. Just a guess, mind you.
My guess is that there are women from 14 to 104 who don't want to have sex... Even with their husbands. Just a guess, mind you.
G | 3:02 p.m. May 1, 2008
"A medical doctor on the Nancy Grace show last night shared the stats: The
American Journal of Medicine states that only 1/2 of 1% of 1000 kids will have
broken bones. That's a very small percentage. That makes those FLDS people
look like abusive thugs. Throw them all in jail!"
All I can say is that maybe Nancy Grace isn't the best place to get your "facts" or perhaps that doctor's license should be revoked. I broke several growing up.
"1/2 of 1% of 1000"? Could you please cite numbers correctly?
All I can say is that maybe Nancy Grace isn't the best place to get your "facts" or perhaps that doctor's license should be revoked. I broke several growing up.
"1/2 of 1% of 1000"? Could you please cite numbers correctly?
Reply to Hi | 3:02 p.m. May 1, 2008
They are building my house. Most of them are actually working with the
construction company or one of the other businesses. Four lost boys live across
the street from my brother and they openly admit that they were kicked out for
good reason. They have all since been in jail for various offenses.
I am not trying to defend them. I am just giving you a reasonable explanation as to why the boys and men weren't just hanging out at home during the raid.
Did any one notice that they were bused away in "First Baptist Church" buses. I wonder if the First Baptist Church would want to have a bunch of polygamists arrested? I wonder if any of the people involved in the raid attended Sunday School at the baptist church and learned about the Mormons having horns?
I am not trying to defend them. I am just giving you a reasonable explanation as to why the boys and men weren't just hanging out at home during the raid.
Did any one notice that they were bused away in "First Baptist Church" buses. I wonder if the First Baptist Church would want to have a bunch of polygamists arrested? I wonder if any of the people involved in the raid attended Sunday School at the baptist church and learned about the Mormons having horns?
Morning glory | 3:04 p.m. May 1, 2008
The question is not one of freedom of religion or constitutional rights. The
questions at hand should be child slavery (forced child labor at construction
sites, work shops etc) and sexual abuse. No matter how you do the math forcing
13 and 14 year olds into sexual relationships is abuse. If some old geezer told
me that I had to give my 14 year old daughter to an older man or that I had to
abandon my 12 year old son in the desert he would be picking his teeth out of
his throat. So I have a hard time feeling sorry for the mothers, basically
because I would never allow anyone to abuse my children. OOPs but then I have
not been brainwashed from birth to believe that I will go to hell if I refuse.
The children inspire my sympathy because this is a no win situation. They are
scarred for life if they stay and scarred if they go back. So give me my Bob
the Sponge watching normal kids anyday. By the way my kids do chores, go to
school, and obey their parents.
Re: G 2:21pm | 3:05 p.m. May 1, 2008
You conveniently overlooked two very important distinctions:
Young girls were not FORCED by their parents and religious leaders to marry older men and to immediately begin bareing children.
This is isn't the 1800's. Different social norms and laws apply today:
Anti-slavery, anti-child-labor, anti-polygamy laws that didn't exist in the 1800's are in force today.
The Romans used to throw Christians to the lions.
If laws mean anything, then people have to be judged by the laws that are in place today, not by the laws and customs that existed a hundred years ago.
Young girls were not FORCED by their parents and religious leaders to marry older men and to immediately begin bareing children.
This is isn't the 1800's. Different social norms and laws apply today:
Anti-slavery, anti-child-labor, anti-polygamy laws that didn't exist in the 1800's are in force today.
The Romans used to throw Christians to the lions.
If laws mean anything, then people have to be judged by the laws that are in place today, not by the laws and customs that existed a hundred years ago.
What is wrong with what CPS DID? | 3:07 p.m. May 1, 2008
Seriously...How can anyone defend this. The church owns the property. The
"victims" who were shown no "papers" did not own the
property. The owner is shown the "papers". Those papers explained that
because of the phone call and because after seeing pregnate girls of a young age
during a investigation of the phone call, The judge felt the kids should be
removed and evidence secured. CPS had by law to check the call out.
So here is an example. Police knock on my door to ask if I have seen a person, I open and they see or smell pot. They can bust me. If I refuse to open the door, they get a warrent if the need to from my landlord, and they open the door, or bust it in if they have a warrent. I would expect the police to search lockers at a highschool after getting a bomb threat. Should they bust the kids they find with drugs in their locker???? YEAH. They should.
So here is an example. Police knock on my door to ask if I have seen a person, I open and they see or smell pot. They can bust me. If I refuse to open the door, they get a warrent if the need to from my landlord, and they open the door, or bust it in if they have a warrent. I would expect the police to search lockers at a highschool after getting a bomb threat. Should they bust the kids they find with drugs in their locker???? YEAH. They should.
Nurse Comment | 3:08 p.m. May 1, 2008
This discussion about broken bones is silly. There is no way a doctor can
diagnose a "history" of fractures without xrays, and how many of these
467 kids have been examined by an M.D.?
Every other day there is a new charge by CPS, attempting to justify their shameful treatment of these children.
Every other day there is a new charge by CPS, attempting to justify their shameful treatment of these children.
Re: Re: G 2:21pm | 3:12 p.m. May 1, 2008
You mean like illegal search and seizure laws?
Active kids = broken bones | 3:15 p.m. May 1, 2008
When I was a kid (not 100 years ago), back when kids used to play outside before
vidoe games and couch potato-ing, I was 1 of only 3 of us in the neighborhood
who hadn't broken a bone by age 6...and then got hit by a car. We
weren't FLDS or belonging to any specific religion, nor were we
abused...just active kids. Glad we didn't have the Texas CPS around back
then.
G 2:21pm | 3:16 p.m. May 1, 2008
What do you mean there are not young girls being forced to marry? They are
plenty coming out and saying they are. I wonder what the stats would look like
if I asked 1000 16yr old girls in a public high school how many of them have met
and talked about getting married and replenishing the earth with their pastors
or priests. Most normal parents would not even broach the subject of when the
time is right to have kids. So, If there are complaints and court cases....you
know the where there is smoke there is fire. It is a terrible situation, but
dont try and make it seem that these things are not happening. Because there is
clearly something going on.
Morning Glory | 3:19 p.m. May 1, 2008
The testimonies that I read and listened to, said exactly that, they were FORCED
to marry. Depends on your definition of force, if you mean tied up and taken
against their will perhaps not, but it taken and taught that if you say no you
will be eternally condemned then yes. FLDS teaches that if you refuse to give a
body to a spirit(have a baby) then you are condemning that spirit to eternal
wandering and thus you will be condemned. I read it on their own sites and in
books written about their teachings. They preach "blood atonement"
also, my question is if they preach it, do they practice it? Where are the
missing wives and leaders? My fear is that this is beyond what can be settled
in the courts, In order to stop this the Supreme Court will have to mandate that
the religious teachings of the FLDS are unconstitutional. The issue is not even
the children now in custody, what about all the unborn children? What about the
children in Colorado City and Hilsdale?
To FLDS | 3:18 p.m. May 1, 2008
Maybe you'd like to speak for yourselfs.
Are you really taught that a man must have 3 or more wives in order to get to the highest level of Heaven?
Does that also mean that a woman must also be married to a man with 3 or more wives in order for her to get to the highest level of Heaven?
Why do girls have to be married so young?
Are you really taught that a man must have 3 or more wives in order to get to the highest level of Heaven?
Does that also mean that a woman must also be married to a man with 3 or more wives in order for her to get to the highest level of Heaven?
Why do girls have to be married so young?
Chemist to Re: G 3:05 pm | 3:18 p.m. May 1, 2008
Very well said. What age people married 100 years ago and the fact that people
in Utah practiced polygamy in the 1800s is totally irrevevant to the discussion
about the flds practices today. The arguement I also see quite often is about
the establishment of religion... If your religion practices are illegal the
government can come after you for the illegal acts. Putting a thin coat of
religion over the illegal practices does not make them legal and does not
protect you from criminal charges. It appears that the home schooling of the
flds defenders I see on these boards was more propoganda than education.
G | 3:20 p.m. May 1, 2008
"
Young girls were not FORCED by their parents and religious leaders to marry older men and to immediately begin bareing [SIC] children."
Really? So they had women's lib in the 1800s?
And by the way, I can go back a lot further than 19th century if you still think they had a choice.
Don't be ridiculous. Of course they were forced. There was no other social norm to choose from. "Choice" for women in terms of what to do with their lives is a very recent invention, first of lower infant mortality rates, and later of political developments.
"This is isn't the 1800's. Different social norms and laws apply today"
That is true, but it doesn't address my question.
If you give your ancestors a pass, then Warren Jeffs
is subject to incarceration but is not actually evil, he and his group are simply following "different social norms" than the rest of us.
If forced underage marriage is evil, then what has the human race been doing for the last million years? Including your ancestors? Should they have been chemically castrated and sent to Africa, like one post suggested?
Inquiring minds want to know.
Young girls were not FORCED by their parents and religious leaders to marry older men and to immediately begin bareing [SIC] children."
Really? So they had women's lib in the 1800s?
And by the way, I can go back a lot further than 19th century if you still think they had a choice.
Don't be ridiculous. Of course they were forced. There was no other social norm to choose from. "Choice" for women in terms of what to do with their lives is a very recent invention, first of lower infant mortality rates, and later of political developments.
"This is isn't the 1800's. Different social norms and laws apply today"
That is true, but it doesn't address my question.
If you give your ancestors a pass, then Warren Jeffs
is subject to incarceration but is not actually evil, he and his group are simply following "different social norms" than the rest of us.
If forced underage marriage is evil, then what has the human race been doing for the last million years? Including your ancestors? Should they have been chemically castrated and sent to Africa, like one post suggested?
Inquiring minds want to know.
Hi | 3:20 p.m. May 1, 2008
Thanks for the reply regarding the girls/boys ratio.
I didn't suspect anything bad, was just curious.
Since, you seem to be from the YFZ ranch, let me express my feeling for you guys. What the Texas did to you has no place in the civilized world.
Keep strong, everyone there, hopefully the justice shall arrive!
I didn't suspect anything bad, was just curious.
Since, you seem to be from the YFZ ranch, let me express my feeling for you guys. What the Texas did to you has no place in the civilized world.
Keep strong, everyone there, hopefully the justice shall arrive!
G | 3:25 p.m. May 1, 2008
"What do you mean there are not young girls being forced to marry?
"
Clearly you have taken a post out of context.
Clearly you have taken a post out of context.
wrz | 3:26 p.m. May 1, 2008
***Most intelligent people will condemn the outrageous abuse of power by Texas
officials against the FLDS community. That is NOT the same thing as defending
the religious beliefs of this group.***
Well said. What the FLDS folks are allegedly doing in Texas does not appear to be normal. But they have constitutional rights which appear to be violated.
My contention is that human rights in the US Constitution trump any state's CPS laws. If Texas CPS is violating human rights in what they are trying to do, then they need to back off and try another approach. YOU CANNOT VIOLATE A PERSON'S RIGHTS (WOMEN AND CHILDREN) IN THE PROCESS OF CATCHING A CRIMINAL (THE MEN WHO ARE HAVING SEX WITH MINORS).
Well said. What the FLDS folks are allegedly doing in Texas does not appear to be normal. But they have constitutional rights which appear to be violated.
My contention is that human rights in the US Constitution trump any state's CPS laws. If Texas CPS is violating human rights in what they are trying to do, then they need to back off and try another approach. YOU CANNOT VIOLATE A PERSON'S RIGHTS (WOMEN AND CHILDREN) IN THE PROCESS OF CATCHING A CRIMINAL (THE MEN WHO ARE HAVING SEX WITH MINORS).
Just came from the orthopedic | 3:28 p.m. May 1, 2008
My 2 year old son was pushed down in the driveway by
the neighbor boy. We took him to the doctor after he complained about his arm still hurting the next day. The X-Ray tech said he had a small hairline crack in his elbow. The doctor sent us to a specialist. The orthopedic told us that the tech and doctor were just playing it safe and there was nothing wrong with his arm. The medical field can be as wacky as child services sometimes. Good thing there was no question about abuse. I may have had my son taken away from me for the 2 weeks it took to get the appointment with the orthopedic.
Any child should be taken out of harms way when there is a credible allegation or some evidence. All others should be returned to their parents. I know many polygamists and they are not all clones and should not be treated as such.
the neighbor boy. We took him to the doctor after he complained about his arm still hurting the next day. The X-Ray tech said he had a small hairline crack in his elbow. The doctor sent us to a specialist. The orthopedic told us that the tech and doctor were just playing it safe and there was nothing wrong with his arm. The medical field can be as wacky as child services sometimes. Good thing there was no question about abuse. I may have had my son taken away from me for the 2 weeks it took to get the appointment with the orthopedic.
Any child should be taken out of harms way when there is a credible allegation or some evidence. All others should be returned to their parents. I know many polygamists and they are not all clones and should not be treated as such.
To G.....really? | 3:29 p.m. May 1, 2008
Most of my ancestors were married around 19 20 years of age including the men,
but never forced! Force is wrong! Every woman should make up her own mind to
whom she wants to marry. These young FLDS girls do not have any choice nor
feelings for FLDS over the hill products of the devil. They only do what they
have been raised to do. They are nothing but sex slaves!
Carol | 3:32 p.m. May 1, 2008
As a teacher in a school of 600 active, city kids K-6, It is amazing how few
children I have seen with a cast on from a broken bone. My biggest beef however,
is that only 1 wife is legal. The rest of the "wives" who produce mega
children are give a welfare check (that they never see) at the taxpayer's
expense. How sad that little girls are raised to be mothers without ever having
a say or any other choice. Based on the "Stepford Wives" ladies we
witnessed on t.v. these poor women never had a chance. They are
taught/brainwashed that their bodies are merely baby factories. Talk about
milking the system These men got something evil going that needs to be stopped.
Reply to Hi | 3:33 p.m. May 1, 2008
Ha Ha. Again you need to be educated. I live in St George. These people build
houses all over the United States. There is nothing wrong with a 15 or 16 year
old working with his dad. I think it was doctor Phil that said 45% of foster
care children end up homeless.
Freddie | 3:35 p.m. May 1, 2008
>>In order to stop this the Supreme Court will have to mandate that the
religious teachings of the FLDS are unconstitutional.<<
That will be a first. In actual fact, the Constitution says, in so many words, that the Supreme Court can't do that.
That will be a first. In actual fact, the Constitution says, in so many words, that the Supreme Court can't do that.
to Morning Glory | 3:37 p.m. May 1, 2008
This situation certainly IS about Constitutional rights! What is your source
that "13-14 year olds" are forced into sexual relations? CPS
didn't even say that at the hearing.
re"G" | 3:38 p.m. May 1, 2008
Thought you might like to know this 2008. We no longer live in the dark ages.
Nor do we condone slavery with any living human.
G | 3:40 p.m. May 1, 2008
"Most of my ancestors were married around 19 20 years of age including the
men, but never forced! Force is wrong!"
"Most of your ancestors"?
The human species has been around at least 100,000 years. How many of your ancestors are you using as an example?
"They only do what they have been raised to do."
Really? What do you think your great-great-great grandmothers were "raised to do"? Become doctors? No, they were raised to have children. That is what women did, until quite recently. If you spend enough time in the family history library, you will inevitably find female ancestors that married between 12-14 years of age. That is statutory rape.
As I've said all along, more objectivity, less hypocrisy, please.
"Most of your ancestors"?
The human species has been around at least 100,000 years. How many of your ancestors are you using as an example?
"They only do what they have been raised to do."
Really? What do you think your great-great-great grandmothers were "raised to do"? Become doctors? No, they were raised to have children. That is what women did, until quite recently. If you spend enough time in the family history library, you will inevitably find female ancestors that married between 12-14 years of age. That is statutory rape.
As I've said all along, more objectivity, less hypocrisy, please.
Reply to Hi | 3:41 p.m. May 1, 2008
I live in St George. These guys build homes all over the western states. Most of
the polygamists I know appear to be good people. If they are abusing children
than they should be dealt with harshly. The ones that are in state custody and
have no credible evidence or accusations of abuse should be returned to their
parents.
orangeed | 3:42 p.m. May 1, 2008
Forcing someone, Teaching them that breeding is the only way to god and having
more than 1 wife is wrong. My grandparents only had 1 significant other. Their
parents the same. SO yeah it was wrong back then for anyone to be forced to
marry and have babies. Just as it is wrong today. Your argument "if I am
not in uproar about cavemen raping girls I should not be upset about the FLDS is
crazy". Just because it happened in the past does not mean it is okay.
Slavery Was Wrong in the past it is wrong right now. Would you have gotten off
the bus in opposition to segergation or would you have said that this is the way
it was so this is the way it should be? So comparing it at all to younger
couples in the past is a misnomer. The norm is only 1 wife besides they fell in
love, not forced into lust.
Do they really tell girls that they will grow to love a partner that they are not interested in??
Do they really tell girls that they will grow to love a partner that they are not interested in??
Question | 3:46 p.m. May 1, 2008
Why aren't these people in Maine where I believe the age of consent is 16?
G | 3:53 p.m. May 1, 2008
"Forcing someone, Teaching them that breeding is the only way to god and
having more than 1 wife is wrong."
It's not much different from what your ancestors were doing in the 1850s. And that's if they lived anywhere in America, I am not singling out any particular religious or regional group.
Women married very young, and that was the way it was.
"Just because it happened in the past does not mean it is okay."
Really? If it's "not okay" then why don't you hate your ancestors as much you hate FLDS?
It's not much different from what your ancestors were doing in the 1850s. And that's if they lived anywhere in America, I am not singling out any particular religious or regional group.
Women married very young, and that was the way it was.
"Just because it happened in the past does not mean it is okay."
Really? If it's "not okay" then why don't you hate your ancestors as much you hate FLDS?
Anonymous | 3:54 p.m. May 1, 2008
I don't think that this story is made up because they couldn't do
that. Lots of little kids break limbs. Let's not jump to conclusions until
we know more facts.
G | 3:55 p.m. May 1, 2008
"Thought you might like to know this 2008. We no longer live in the dark
ages. Nor do we condone slavery with any living human."
Okay. So your ancestors were evil like Jeffs, eh?
Okay. So your ancestors were evil like Jeffs, eh?
re:G...caveman thinking | 3:58 p.m. May 1, 2008
Do you think you are going to change the modern woman to whom some have more
intelligence then a lot of men? Are you going to make these brilliant woman stay
home and darn your stinky socks? Well, BUD, for your information things are
quite a bit different today. Some woman even support their husbands who cannot
find a jobs. Woman have the right to use their full potential, capacity brain
power just as any man does. And, that doesn't mean just being a bedroom
partner to some old geezer! You are way out field in nowhere land in your
thinking. Your thinking is primitive.
Re: G | 4:02 p.m. May 1, 2008
Judging people that lived a hundred years ago by the laws and norms of today is
just a foolish as judging people today by the laws and norms of a hundred years
ago.
Apparently, that concept is too difficult for you to grasp.
Apparently, that concept is too difficult for you to grasp.
G | 4:08 p.m. May 1, 2008
"Do you think you are going to change the modern woman to whom some have
more intelligence then a lot of men?"
That isn't my intention. If you had been paying close attention to my posts you would know that.
"You are way out field in nowhere land in your thinking. Your thinking is primitive."
It's this sort of hate I'm trying to understand. I've merely pointed out that 150 years ago your family was practicing institutionalized, systematic, statutory rape, minus some of the theological undertones the FLDS have going. No it doesn't make it okay, but I do want to know if you think your ancestors should have been "castrated and sent to Africa" as was suggested for Jeffs.
You can fume and be angry about that, but it's the truth. And you know what they say, it'll set you free. But first it will make you angry.
That isn't my intention. If you had been paying close attention to my posts you would know that.
"You are way out field in nowhere land in your thinking. Your thinking is primitive."
It's this sort of hate I'm trying to understand. I've merely pointed out that 150 years ago your family was practicing institutionalized, systematic, statutory rape, minus some of the theological undertones the FLDS have going. No it doesn't make it okay, but I do want to know if you think your ancestors should have been "castrated and sent to Africa" as was suggested for Jeffs.
You can fume and be angry about that, but it's the truth. And you know what they say, it'll set you free. But first it will make you angry.
G | 4:11 p.m. May 1, 2008
"Judging people that lived a hundred years ago by the laws and norms of
today is just a foolish as judging people today by the laws and norms"
So is that all this is about? Punishing people that don't fit the "norm"?
I would've called it evil, personally.
So is that all this is about? Punishing people that don't fit the "norm"?
I would've called it evil, personally.
Caveman Thinking | 4:13 p.m. May 1, 2008
It is not such a novel and outdated idea for a woman to actually love her
children enough to want to raise them. There is nothing wrong with a woman
wanting to do what ever she likes. If she chooses to have children than she
should be responsible enough to raise them. Of course, I have no problem with
the man staying home and raising the kids.
G | 4:19 p.m. May 1, 2008
I presume from the title "caveman thinking" the following is addressed
to me:
"It is not such a novel and outdated idea for a woman to actually love her children enough to want to raise them. There is nothing wrong with a woman wanting to do what ever she likes. If she chooses to have children than she should be responsible enough to raise them. Of course, I have no problem with the man staying home and raising the kids."
Unfortunately I'm note sure what it has to do with the cultural relativity of social norms. So I'll just point out that I agree with it.
"It is not such a novel and outdated idea for a woman to actually love her children enough to want to raise them. There is nothing wrong with a woman wanting to do what ever she likes. If she chooses to have children than she should be responsible enough to raise them. Of course, I have no problem with the man staying home and raising the kids."
Unfortunately I'm note sure what it has to do with the cultural relativity of social norms. So I'll just point out that I agree with it.
grandma in Illinois | 4:49 p.m. May 1, 2008
Father Age Mother's Age
1415-1718-19Total
144940391
15-173063,4051,0664,777
18-191995,5316,94412,673
20-241566,37718,67225,206
25-2981,1065,0516,164
30-3431831,2841,469
35-39143428473
40-62017169186
TOTAL722*16,701*33,616*51,039*
*Totals in this and subsequent tables may not add up exactly due to rounding.
Source: California Center for Health Statistics, 2002
I don't see very many pregnancies of 14 year olds by old men - the majority are within 5-9 years of the girl's ages.
1415-1718-19Total
144940391
15-173063,4051,0664,777
18-191995,5316,94412,673
20-241566,37718,67225,206
25-2981,1065,0516,164
30-3431831,2841,469
35-39143428473
40-62017169186
TOTAL722*16,701*33,616*51,039*
*Totals in this and subsequent tables may not add up exactly due to rounding.
Source: California Center for Health Statistics, 2002
I don't see very many pregnancies of 14 year olds by old men - the majority are within 5-9 years of the girl's ages.
Supremes | 4:54 p.m. May 1, 2008
"To make accommodation between these freedoms and an exercise of state
authority always is delicate. It hardly could be more so than in such a clash as
this case presents. On one side is the obviously earnest claim for freedom of
conscience and religious practice. With it is allied the parent's claim to
authority in her own household and in the rearing of her children. The
parent's conflict with the state over control of the child and his training
is serious enough when only secular matters are concerned. It becomes the more
so when an element of religious conviction enters. Against these sacred private
interests, basic in a democracy, stand the interests of society to protect the
welfare of children, and the state's assertion of authority to that end,
made here in a manner conceded valid if only secular things were involved. The
last is no mere corporate concern of official authority. It is the interest of
youth itself, and of the whole community, that children be both safeguarded from
abuses and given opportunities for growth into free and independent well
developed men and citizens.�
PRINCE v. MASSACHUSETTS 321 U.S. 158 1944
PRINCE v. MASSACHUSETTS 321 U.S. 158 1944
I agree with Bill | 5:02 p.m. May 1, 2008
Why didn't they remove the men and leave the women and children together?
The women, if they were all raped, as CPS alleges, are likely just as abused as
the children. But the men go without consequence...what's up with that?
And I agree. CPS might be right, there might be abuses, but nothing has been proven, nothing specific even reported. We are supposed to trust CPS omniscience in this matter while simultaneously assuming they will not do it again, this time when there really isn't abuse, and just because someone didn't like their teachings.
And I agree. CPS might be right, there might be abuses, but nothing has been proven, nothing specific even reported. We are supposed to trust CPS omniscience in this matter while simultaneously assuming they will not do it again, this time when there really isn't abuse, and just because someone didn't like their teachings.
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Carey Cockerell of the Texas Department of Family and Protective Services testifies about FLDS children.
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Reynolds was ruled in 1878, and would be unlikely to stand today, especially with the modern recognition of things like the right to privacy issue. The Courts see things very differently today than they did in the 19th century.<< - G
And especially considering the recent Lawrence vs Texas.