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State's top child welfare official: FLDS children have broken bones
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Anonymous | 12:26 p.m. April 30, 2008
What happened to all the comments on this post?
deseretnews.com moderator | 12:28 p.m. April 30, 2008
This is a new story. It is from one of our reporters. Unfortunately, the
comments do not cross over from the AP story to this story.
masked_data | 12:30 p.m. April 30, 2008
Can't wait to hear Rod Parker's explanation...
Comments continue below
Judy | 12:33 p.m. April 30, 2008
Is it normal or abnormal for about 10% of children to have experienced broken
bones? Is diet perhaps a factor?
Hoosier | 12:35 p.m. April 30, 2008
To those who berated Texas for separating the mothers and children it appears
that the mothers have been implicit in thwarting the investigation. The mothers
are also most probably implicit in the bad things that went on at the YFZ and
should not get their children back. What a lying, deceitful people. To think
that Warren Jeffs hand picked these as the truly righteous saved people. What a
crock.
Name withheld | 12:36 p.m. April 30, 2008
Only 41 of 464 children have had broken bones? I personally broke my leg, my
wrist, severed a finger and required skin graphs on my ankle due to accidental
injuries. I have five children - one of them fell from a bunk bed last year and
got a compound fracture severing both the unla and the radius.
News flash CPS! Children have accidental injuries. Less than 10% with some evidence of broken bones in the past has to be lower than the average. I would like to know the rate of broken bones and other injuries (not to mention physical and sexual abuse) for children who have been in the Texas foster care system for a long term (say more than 5 years). I'd bet my house that it's higher than 10%
CPS must be feeling tremendous heat to justify their actions. I've never seen such a systematic effort on the part of child services organization to try their case in the media. Thank heavens that these cases will soon be handled on an individual basis (as they should've been from the beginning). Then we may find out how many were truly abused and how many were wrongly taken.
News flash CPS! Children have accidental injuries. Less than 10% with some evidence of broken bones in the past has to be lower than the average. I would like to know the rate of broken bones and other injuries (not to mention physical and sexual abuse) for children who have been in the Texas foster care system for a long term (say more than 5 years). I'd bet my house that it's higher than 10%
CPS must be feeling tremendous heat to justify their actions. I've never seen such a systematic effort on the part of child services organization to try their case in the media. Thank heavens that these cases will soon be handled on an individual basis (as they should've been from the beginning). Then we may find out how many were truly abused and how many were wrongly taken.
Hoosier | 12:41 p.m. April 30, 2008
The flds make great role models for raising honest and truthful people
don't they? NOT. They try to thwart the sorting of what child belongs with
what parent and then they cry about it when the state keeps their children. How
should CPS know what parents to release what child to when this deceitful
behavior has gone on? The children would be better off if Texas kept them then
to release them to these lying mothers. They also probanbly lie about everything
else.I will never belive them after this.
To the Deseret religious censor | 12:40 p.m. April 30, 2008
FLDS children have broken bones.
LDS children have broken bones.
Catholic children have broken bones.
Muslim children have broken bones.
What is the purpose of publishing this kind of information?
I get the impression that the LDS church and the Deseret News paper are indirectly persecuting their stray brothers.
The FLDS is a group of families separated from the LDS church. Accept the historic truth.
LDS children have broken bones.
Catholic children have broken bones.
Muslim children have broken bones.
What is the purpose of publishing this kind of information?
I get the impression that the LDS church and the Deseret News paper are indirectly persecuting their stray brothers.
The FLDS is a group of families separated from the LDS church. Accept the historic truth.
More news | 12:49 p.m. April 30, 2008
Another news source (fox) reported that 4 boys may have been molested based on
journals and other information.
Amara | 12:50 p.m. April 30, 2008
As the bad news collects and compounds I have to wonder if polygamy brought all
this chaos, privation and evil if it could possibly be the work of God.
G | 12:51 p.m. April 30, 2008
"He said 41 children had broken bones or previous fractures."
About 10%? I'm shocked--that that number is so low. I would've expected somewhere between 25-40% in the general population. Those kids must not be skating or playing soccer. I know the skating rink was good for two fractures for me. My little brother got an excellent fracture from his public-school P.E. class. CPS didn't ask any questions. Guess we weren't weird enough.
About 10%? I'm shocked--that that number is so low. I would've expected somewhere between 25-40% in the general population. Those kids must not be skating or playing soccer. I know the skating rink was good for two fractures for me. My little brother got an excellent fracture from his public-school P.E. class. CPS didn't ask any questions. Guess we weren't weird enough.
Blame the Press | 12:51 p.m. April 30, 2008
Obviously, from the FLDS perspective, any negative press will be portrayed as
religious persecution.
Just give the kids back and let the FLDS return to practicing their religious beliefs.
Just give the kids back and let the FLDS return to practicing their religious beliefs.
Anonymous | 12:53 p.m. April 30, 2008
The longer this goes, the better is becomes. We have accusations of Child
Sexual Abuse, now we have possible physcial abuse, and if diet is a factor of
broken bones, then we have possibilites of neglect. Why neglect....improper
diets or parents failing to provide their children with proper nourishment. How
does this fit in with the parents saying.."we are good parents..." If
they are guilty of physical abuse and neglect, what part of the bible will they
use to justify their actions?
Abused child | 12:56 p.m. April 30, 2008
A have had broken bones. Six in fact, my parents must be child abusers. But hey
only four required multiple surguries. Judy were did you get this 10%, did not
read this in the article? Where was the evidence of broken bones and bruises
during the raid? Maybe because the storm troopers were the ones who caused
them.
klb | 12:58 p.m. April 30, 2008
In an article in the Houston Chronicle,CPS admitted that they haven't even
x rayed these children. It is really irresponsible of them to make
unsubstantiated claims.
While I disagree with the bulk of FLDS doctrine, this is nothing more than a witch hunt.
We all had be pretty mindful of what is happening in our respective areas of the country and in our own homes.
I read the sensitivity guide ("introduce candy slowly") that CPS issued to foster homes--besides the fact that there were some glaring errors (Jos. Smiths bday as April 6th), I live by many of the things that the FLDS do.
Are my children next? Will they say that my special needs adult child, who repeats scriptures, etc over and over is indoctrinated and needs to be removed?
We all need to re-read the Constitution while we still are able to choose what we read!
While I disagree with the bulk of FLDS doctrine, this is nothing more than a witch hunt.
We all had be pretty mindful of what is happening in our respective areas of the country and in our own homes.
I read the sensitivity guide ("introduce candy slowly") that CPS issued to foster homes--besides the fact that there were some glaring errors (Jos. Smiths bday as April 6th), I live by many of the things that the FLDS do.
Are my children next? Will they say that my special needs adult child, who repeats scriptures, etc over and over is indoctrinated and needs to be removed?
We all need to re-read the Constitution while we still are able to choose what we read!
Bruce | 1:00 p.m. April 30, 2008
Apparently, the FLDS mothers informed CPS workers when they were taking the
children that many suffer from brittle bone disease. Of course they have a
slightly larger than average number of broken bones. Brittle bone disease + not
sitting in front of a tv = larger than average broken bone occurance. Texas CPS
is really grasping for straws now.
I was discussing this case with my active LDS temple-working brother and I might as well have mentioned Hitler....Is there some sort of deep-seated hatred toward the FLDS by the LDS that the media has not exposed? Holy mackerel...it's a disagreement over a revalation for goodness sake...(or is it polygamy envy?)
I was discussing this case with my active LDS temple-working brother and I might as well have mentioned Hitler....Is there some sort of deep-seated hatred toward the FLDS by the LDS that the media has not exposed? Holy mackerel...it's a disagreement over a revalation for goodness sake...(or is it polygamy envy?)
Jules | 1:00 p.m. April 30, 2008
Well, if they stopped lying, changing names, being deceitful, they wouldnt be
creating a worsening impression of themselves. I do not think these women know
any other way, they are trained to hate and fear the outside world..so they will
lie and lie and lie..because that is their survival mechanism. The girl who just
had a baby.. they dont even know how old she is, that is just plain
ridiculous.
I feel so bad for the LDS community..especially because they are being associated with something that they are completed not party to. But whatever, I think their kids probably DO have more broken bones...because they have SO MANY KIDS!!! AND discipline is strict, and there are no physical limits there.... so who would report it if a father broke a child's arm. ALSO... the FLDS children are NOT allowed to play, or laugh, or do very much other than work. So if they are breaking their bones doing chores, um, as toddlers.... that is just strange.
I would think there is probably a higher incidence of broken bones due to the nature of how they discipline. I bet the wives have had alot of broken bones too.
I feel so bad for the LDS community..especially because they are being associated with something that they are completed not party to. But whatever, I think their kids probably DO have more broken bones...because they have SO MANY KIDS!!! AND discipline is strict, and there are no physical limits there.... so who would report it if a father broke a child's arm. ALSO... the FLDS children are NOT allowed to play, or laugh, or do very much other than work. So if they are breaking their bones doing chores, um, as toddlers.... that is just strange.
I would think there is probably a higher incidence of broken bones due to the nature of how they discipline. I bet the wives have had alot of broken bones too.
Anonymous | 12:59 p.m. April 30, 2008
If you took a concensus of all people, It would probably show alot of people in
this world had fractures that weren't in need of a cast and most likely
childhood falls.
Annie in NV | 1:00 p.m. April 30, 2008
It doesn't surprise me that the state of Texas tried to keep the mothers
with the children as is shown in this article, it aslo doesn't surprise me
that the smae mothers tried to subvert the investigation. These people have
been systematicly brainwashed by the FLDS hierarchy (Warren Jeffs) they truly
believe what has been wormed into them for 50+ (?) yrs. How sad this whole
situation is. How sad it had to come to this. It's easy for those on the
outside to be 'armchair' quarterbacks and second guess what's
been done without ALL of the facts.
Cookie | 1:01 p.m. April 30, 2008
Thank you for covering this story. Texas isn't the
only state that is cracking down on child abuse.
The noon news just announced that a 'religious' cult leader near Albuquerque has been arrested for sexual conduct with minor age girls. He bears the appearance of an older Charles Manson. Again, another "closed society."
I'm disgusted with comments declaring violation of Constitutional rights, religious freedom, and FEAR of the government "taking my children." What are
people doing to their children that they would have such fear? If you are not living in a walled, closed
community estranged from any communication with the
outside world and are not under coercion of a Jones,
Warren Jeffs, Charles Manson, or Waco operation;
sexually abusing minor children, using mind control, physically abusing your spouse or children, arranging 'marriages' to child brides; doing none of the above outrageous offenses, and
you are legally married to one spouse, allow your
children educational opportunities, maintain a safe
environment for your family, feed and clothe your
children, don't expose them to drugs or child
pornography or porn period--
THEN YOU HAVE NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT!
Decent people cannot comprehend such atrocities
against life's most precious gifts--our children.
Should CPS?
only state that is cracking down on child abuse.
The noon news just announced that a 'religious' cult leader near Albuquerque has been arrested for sexual conduct with minor age girls. He bears the appearance of an older Charles Manson. Again, another "closed society."
I'm disgusted with comments declaring violation of Constitutional rights, religious freedom, and FEAR of the government "taking my children." What are
people doing to their children that they would have such fear? If you are not living in a walled, closed
community estranged from any communication with the
outside world and are not under coercion of a Jones,
Warren Jeffs, Charles Manson, or Waco operation;
sexually abusing minor children, using mind control, physically abusing your spouse or children, arranging 'marriages' to child brides; doing none of the above outrageous offenses, and
you are legally married to one spouse, allow your
children educational opportunities, maintain a safe
environment for your family, feed and clothe your
children, don't expose them to drugs or child
pornography or porn period--
THEN YOU HAVE NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT!
Decent people cannot comprehend such atrocities
against life's most precious gifts--our children.
Should CPS?
Re: religious censor | 1:05 p.m. April 30, 2008
The purpose for publishing this type of information is quite clear, it's
news about the events surrounding the YFZ Ranch raid.
This story is also being reported by the Salt Lake Tribune, FoxNews, CNN, USA Today, and every other news reporting organization.
The real question is, What is your purpose for not wanting this news reported?
This story is also being reported by the Salt Lake Tribune, FoxNews, CNN, USA Today, and every other news reporting organization.
The real question is, What is your purpose for not wanting this news reported?
Where is this supposed FLDS | 1:12 p.m. April 30, 2008
Doctor?
There's only one for the hundreds in this group? It is obvious these kids don't get proper medical care! They don't abide by any kind of regulations!
There's only one for the hundreds in this group? It is obvious these kids don't get proper medical care! They don't abide by any kind of regulations!
Bill | 1:17 p.m. April 30, 2008
Let's see, in elementary school I broke several fingers playing baseball,
my ankle when I fell off my bicycle, and my wrist from a motor cycle accident in
high school. I'm really glad that CPS didn't come after me and take me
from my parents. No, I'm not FLDS or Mormon, just a person with common
sense who can see that the CPS is grasping at straws to cover their
incompetence.
Crumble, Cookie | 1:17 p.m. April 30, 2008
I'm sure I'm not the only one who is tired of the robotic chanting of
the mantra "If you aren't doing anything wrong then you have nothing
to worry about." Nooooooo -- no innocent person is ever arrested. No
innocent person is ever tried. No innocent person is ever executed.
People tell lies about each other all the time. It's luck -- nothing but luck, and the hope that the system will eventually make things right more often than it makes things wrong -- that keeps the world working. Cookie, if I were your neighbor, and you ticked me off once too often with your platitudes of "you have nothing to worry about," and if I were malicious, there is nothing in this world with the power to keep me from making an anonymous phone call accusing you or someone in your house of something illegal. You'd be investigated, you might suffer enormous consequences, and I'd get off scott-free.
I wouldn't do that; someone else might. But you won't believe it could happen, will you?
People tell lies about each other all the time. It's luck -- nothing but luck, and the hope that the system will eventually make things right more often than it makes things wrong -- that keeps the world working. Cookie, if I were your neighbor, and you ticked me off once too often with your platitudes of "you have nothing to worry about," and if I were malicious, there is nothing in this world with the power to keep me from making an anonymous phone call accusing you or someone in your house of something illegal. You'd be investigated, you might suffer enormous consequences, and I'd get off scott-free.
I wouldn't do that; someone else might. But you won't believe it could happen, will you?
Name withheld | 1:19 p.m. April 30, 2008
To those who have children:
Have they ever had broken bones? (If yes, you're either abusive or neglectful.)
Have they ever been sick? (If yes, you may have neglected diet, cleanliness or improperly exposed them to disease.)
Have they ever been cut? (If yes, you aren't watching them closely enough, or you're allowing harmful behavior.)
Has a neighbor boy/girl/adult ever abused them? (If so, you are not a fit parent.)
If you have kids, and you don't find this line of reasoning chilling, your head is in the sand.
Texas CPS wants you to draw general conclusions from this kind of pap. I was sexually abused at 11 by a cousin of one of my friends. Thank heavens no one concluded that I should be taken from my parents.
Only when each individual child's case comes forward will anyone know if that child has been abused and should remain in custody or will be returned to his/her parents. There are good reasons why well-established child welfare law generally does not allow for mass hearings. It is wrong, plain and simple, to handle these kinds of matters in aggregate - the truth cannot be discovered that way.
Have they ever had broken bones? (If yes, you're either abusive or neglectful.)
Have they ever been sick? (If yes, you may have neglected diet, cleanliness or improperly exposed them to disease.)
Have they ever been cut? (If yes, you aren't watching them closely enough, or you're allowing harmful behavior.)
Has a neighbor boy/girl/adult ever abused them? (If so, you are not a fit parent.)
If you have kids, and you don't find this line of reasoning chilling, your head is in the sand.
Texas CPS wants you to draw general conclusions from this kind of pap. I was sexually abused at 11 by a cousin of one of my friends. Thank heavens no one concluded that I should be taken from my parents.
Only when each individual child's case comes forward will anyone know if that child has been abused and should remain in custody or will be returned to his/her parents. There are good reasons why well-established child welfare law generally does not allow for mass hearings. It is wrong, plain and simple, to handle these kinds of matters in aggregate - the truth cannot be discovered that way.
Hugh McBryde | 1:23 p.m. April 30, 2008
I repeat what I said previously. The YFZ bone breakage rate is below normal for
the children across the nation. Mentally ill children break bones at a rate of
22%. Normal children, 11%. The FLDS YFZ rate is below 10%
During your lifetime you can on average expect to break your bones twice. A rate of 200%.
All of this is on my blog the "Modern Pharisee", which I cannot link to, but contains the links to the documentation.
During your lifetime you can on average expect to break your bones twice. A rate of 200%.
All of this is on my blog the "Modern Pharisee", which I cannot link to, but contains the links to the documentation.
G | 1:23 p.m. April 30, 2008
"doing none of the above outrageous offenses, and
you are legally married to one spouse, allow your
children educational opportunities....
THEN YOU HAVE NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT!"
So according to Cookie, you can't raise children if you are not "legally married to one spouse". How many single mothers are there in Texas? Let the raids begin.
As for the "educational opportunities", does that mean they'll take the homeschoolers too?
you are legally married to one spouse, allow your
children educational opportunities....
THEN YOU HAVE NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT!"
So according to Cookie, you can't raise children if you are not "legally married to one spouse". How many single mothers are there in Texas? Let the raids begin.
As for the "educational opportunities", does that mean they'll take the homeschoolers too?
Save the kids! | 1:24 p.m. April 30, 2008
The news coverage is good. It's time to put FLDS out of the brothel
business. God has nothing to do with the sick practice of polygamy. It's
time to save the children from a life of Satan's "higher law" of
perversion.
unknown | 1:37 p.m. April 30, 2008
The statement did not provide details about the 41 children investigators
believe may have had broken bones, saying it does "not have X-rays" or
complete medical information on many children. So how dow they know the childern
have broken bones.
medical care? | 1:38 p.m. April 30, 2008
I read in one news report that FLDS before the raid were taking kids to visit
the orthodontist in the neighboring town and shopping at Walmart. That sounds
like normal care to me. I read in another report that while the kids were kept
together after the raid that they were turning down offers of canned soda and
other junk food and were requesting healthy snack alternatives such as almonds
and nuts. Everyone knows that the FLDS preach abstinence from alcohol and
tobacco products. That sounds healthy to me.
TOO MAY BREAKS ! | 1:43 p.m. April 30, 2008
10% have had broken bones. IMO his is high for kids that are not allowed to
play sports or ride bikes and girls almost never leave the house.
I guess it also depends upon where the breaks were.
I hope these kids can be deprogramed
I guess it also depends upon where the breaks were.
I hope these kids can be deprogramed
Due Process | 1:49 p.m. April 30, 2008
Takes time
-Possible abuse reported
-CPS investigates
-ALL children removed
-Parents charged
-Trial still pending 2 1/2 years later
Jason Strickland brought a bruised and unconscious Haleigh to the emergency room of Noble Hospital in Westfield, Mass., on Sept. 11, 2005. He told medical professionals she had become unresponsive after suffering flu-like symptoms.
Samantha, Haleigh's sister, now says that Jason Strickland kicked Haleigh down a flight of stairs.
The Department of Social Services took custody of the Stricklands� two other children within two days; one week later the couple was criminally charged with assault and battery in connection to Haleigh�s injury.
At least Mass. didn't have to spend weeks trying to figure out the true identities of the children and parents.
-With hundreds of children and dozens of families and parents involved at YFZ Ranch raid, it's going to take a long time before any FLDS parents are proven guilty of child abuse.
-Possible abuse reported
-CPS investigates
-ALL children removed
-Parents charged
-Trial still pending 2 1/2 years later
Jason Strickland brought a bruised and unconscious Haleigh to the emergency room of Noble Hospital in Westfield, Mass., on Sept. 11, 2005. He told medical professionals she had become unresponsive after suffering flu-like symptoms.
Samantha, Haleigh's sister, now says that Jason Strickland kicked Haleigh down a flight of stairs.
The Department of Social Services took custody of the Stricklands� two other children within two days; one week later the couple was criminally charged with assault and battery in connection to Haleigh�s injury.
At least Mass. didn't have to spend weeks trying to figure out the true identities of the children and parents.
-With hundreds of children and dozens of families and parents involved at YFZ Ranch raid, it's going to take a long time before any FLDS parents are proven guilty of child abuse.
re:masked_data | 12:30 p.m. | 1:51 p.m. April 30, 2008
>
Well, here it is.....
Rod claims the children have brittle bone disease. What else would you expect him to say?
Well, here it is.....
Rod claims the children have brittle bone disease. What else would you expect him to say?
Kakuna Atan | 1:55 p.m. April 30, 2008
Why spread offenses to the non LDS Deseret readers?
Most of the comments are influenciated by ignorance of the LDS doctrine and practices.
The issue is that broken bones can happen to children of any community, specially if they have a genetic or dietary deficiency. If this was it a unique occurence in this particular group of FLDS children then you have a case.
As we read these comments, there are many women been sealed (married) to one husband. Of course this is in the LDS spiritual world, so no antagonism with the USA law. But still a practice of the LDS church today.
Now back to the issue of FLDS mother defending their offsprings. Moses lied, King Dave lied.
When there is a conflict obeying the G-d's Laws, the followers must choose the higher law.
A mother would do any thing to save her child from been taken away.
These FLDS mothers and children should be treated with love, compassion,education, respect, and education.
Most of the comments are influenciated by ignorance of the LDS doctrine and practices.
The issue is that broken bones can happen to children of any community, specially if they have a genetic or dietary deficiency. If this was it a unique occurence in this particular group of FLDS children then you have a case.
As we read these comments, there are many women been sealed (married) to one husband. Of course this is in the LDS spiritual world, so no antagonism with the USA law. But still a practice of the LDS church today.
Now back to the issue of FLDS mother defending their offsprings. Moses lied, King Dave lied.
When there is a conflict obeying the G-d's Laws, the followers must choose the higher law.
A mother would do any thing to save her child from been taken away.
These FLDS mothers and children should be treated with love, compassion,education, respect, and education.
strange | 1:55 p.m. April 30, 2008
It isnt that strange that there is kids with broken
bones.. I dont find that odd really
what I do find odd is there is no swing set, no play grounds no bikes so if the kids have broken bones how are they breaking them
that is bigger question
bones.. I dont find that odd really
what I do find odd is there is no swing set, no play grounds no bikes so if the kids have broken bones how are they breaking them
that is bigger question
I Man Fraidddd... | 1:56 p.m. April 30, 2008
The second shoe has dropped on the FLDS. Stayed tuned, more to come. That ranch
is done!
Erik | 1:57 p.m. April 30, 2008
For those who don't know, this 'brittle bone disease' is actually
a recessive genetic disease. The reason for its prevalence is the fact that
there is a lot of intermarriage and even inbreeding among the FLDS. The DesNews
ran a story a few weeks ago about another common problem among the FLDS called
fumarase deficiency disease. This is another problem that requires
'round-the-clock care. The FLDS cull many young men and boys from their
society every year, leaving the gene pool quite shallow, as it were. Those of
you who are outraged at the separations, I can understand your point. I say
remove the men from the compound, not the children from their mothers. They are
the victims. The mothers didn't impregnate all of those juveniles, the men
did. It is the men's doctrines and subversion that are to blame for all of
this. Evidence of sexual abuse, and rape, has no higher proof than the
pregnancy of its victims. They need to DNA test the men and the babies who are
born and therefore find out who the perpetrators are and prosecute them. You
can't have sex with little girls in any state the last time I checked.
to: name withheld | 2:05 p.m. April 30, 2008
I think it is quite alarming that this renegade Morman sect has indications of
physical and sexual abuse towards children. They live inside a compound, what do
you expect? You make it sound like this is normal. Wake up! It's not unless
you live in China. The compound is not to keep outsiders from coming in, it is
to keep the children locked up. These children are easily manipulated and is
evidenced by their non-cooperation. I hope the CPS can expose who the real
mothers and fathers are and get to the root of the ugly situation.
POLYGAMY IS A CRIME | 2:06 p.m. April 30, 2008
Polygamy is a crime. These wacko nutjobs are CRIMINALS. Based on their
ridiculous belief systems they are most likely guilty of child abuse as well-
how many 50 year old men think it's ok to marry a 13 year old? ITS SICK.
Just a haven for pedophiles. HOORAY FOR TEXAS!
Now let us DEMAND that Utah follow suit.
Now let us DEMAND that Utah follow suit.
Mom of 10 | 2:07 p.m. April 30, 2008
I am not FLDS, but I am the mom of 10 children, Cookie. 3 of my children broke
their arms (I did skating) in accidents. That means that 30% of my kids had
broken bones. Shouldn't have let my son ride his bike or my daughter ride
her horse.
As for not worrying about CPS, I've had experience with them with our Downs son. If a case worker doesn't agree with your breast feeding, she can report you for neglect because your child is underweight--our Doctor's comment "These CPS people are crazy; this is a Downs baby."
You can have an completely unsubstantiated complaint filed (no name given) by someone with a grudge and be threatened with the removal of your child because you are "improperly medicating" him. CPS worker refused even to check with the pediatrician about the prescription! Two different scary experiences in two different states. Meanwhile three children died from abuse that had been substantiated and reported and kids hospitalized while under the care of these SAME CPS workers. God help you if your lifestyle is slightly different from their ideas.
Of course abuse is wrong, but government officials still need to follow the law.
As for not worrying about CPS, I've had experience with them with our Downs son. If a case worker doesn't agree with your breast feeding, she can report you for neglect because your child is underweight--our Doctor's comment "These CPS people are crazy; this is a Downs baby."
You can have an completely unsubstantiated complaint filed (no name given) by someone with a grudge and be threatened with the removal of your child because you are "improperly medicating" him. CPS worker refused even to check with the pediatrician about the prescription! Two different scary experiences in two different states. Meanwhile three children died from abuse that had been substantiated and reported and kids hospitalized while under the care of these SAME CPS workers. God help you if your lifestyle is slightly different from their ideas.
Of course abuse is wrong, but government officials still need to follow the law.
Tarheels | 2:12 p.m. April 30, 2008
It is unlikely that Child Protective Services will ever be able to present any
credible evidence that any child at YFZ Ranch was abused. Almost a month has
passed since the raid occurred and they have offered nothing specific, just
generalizations. Mr. Carey's report on possible physicial abuse is
probably just another attempt to muddy the water. Why not provide some real
news, like the exact number of fourteen years old girls raped, or how many were
forced to marry forty year old males and what are the names of the males? Why
have no warrants been issued or arrests made? If we learned nothing else about
government during the past seven years, we should at least know to take
everything a bureaucrat says with a grain of salt.
Genetic diseases | 2:17 p.m. April 30, 2008
I am not defending the FLDS underage marriages, please believe me, or any other
sort of abuse to children or women (or anyone else).
BUT, in any group of closely bred people, you will find both genetic strengths and genetic weaknesses in abundance. There are several well-know genetic diseases among the Amish, for example. We lived among the Amish and Mennonites in PA for many years and saw this. The White Buggy Amish only had 6 surnames in their whole church at that time.
This is a terrible situation--the FLDS have done wrong things--so has Texas CPS. I'm afraid to see what will come of the whole thing. Many of these children will be even more traumatized than they might have been had they been at home. I'm for removing the men until the whole thing is sorted out--let the mothers and children stay together. This is going to take years and years to fix.
BUT, in any group of closely bred people, you will find both genetic strengths and genetic weaknesses in abundance. There are several well-know genetic diseases among the Amish, for example. We lived among the Amish and Mennonites in PA for many years and saw this. The White Buggy Amish only had 6 surnames in their whole church at that time.
This is a terrible situation--the FLDS have done wrong things--so has Texas CPS. I'm afraid to see what will come of the whole thing. Many of these children will be even more traumatized than they might have been had they been at home. I'm for removing the men until the whole thing is sorted out--let the mothers and children stay together. This is going to take years and years to fix.
Gal50 | 2:20 p.m. April 30, 2008
Well, the children have not had any x-rays. These are just the broken bones they
know about. And some of the very young kids have broken bones. And four boys
reportedly have been molested. CPS doesn't want to tip its hand before the
trials. It just doesn't want the public breathing down the legislators
necks or its neck. So, CPS tells us enough to justify its taking all of the
kids. No one in the last fifty years had put their career on the line for these
kids. They've just let them be abused.
Now things are coming out. For the naive public who thought that only the teen girls were abused, I think CPS has more experience than you do. Where there is abuse of one kind, there can be abuse of many kinds because the parents don't have the best interest of any of the children in mind.
Do the math on the present population and you will find 29 missing teen boys. What happened? Are these boys safe? We don't have all of the answers?
What about the compound crematorium that was mentioned in the WE polygamy show last night? Did the investigators find that?
Now things are coming out. For the naive public who thought that only the teen girls were abused, I think CPS has more experience than you do. Where there is abuse of one kind, there can be abuse of many kinds because the parents don't have the best interest of any of the children in mind.
Do the math on the present population and you will find 29 missing teen boys. What happened? Are these boys safe? We don't have all of the answers?
What about the compound crematorium that was mentioned in the WE polygamy show last night? Did the investigators find that?
Michigander | 2:22 p.m. April 30, 2008
It is rare that children have brittle bone disease, genetic testing should be
made to prove this.Especially unusual, because those kids have a wonderful diet
of fresh vegetables, whole grains, whole milk and nuts, all good to have strong
bones.They also play no competitive sports, do not have a football, basketball
court or do the other sports in the FLDS compound that young kids usually
enjoy.Nowhere in the video did I see tricycles, swing sets etc.I also doubt they
have roller skates... They need to request the records from the medical clinic,
from Dr. Barlow.I have a hunch that his medical license might be in limbo for
not reporting a few things to authorities, as he has to by law.
Re: strange | 2:22 p.m. April 30, 2008
I broke my leg jumping from a couch. I broke my wrist while wresting with
another guy. I severed my finger playing with a knife. My son broke his arm
falling from a bunk bed.
Now if the FLDS have no couches, chairs, knives, balconies, bunk beds, etc., then you have an argument. I guarantee you - kids hurt themselves. They do things that aren't smart. You cannot judge anything from the fact that 41 out of 464 have broken bones. You can only know if abuse occurred by investigating on a case-by-case basis.
The question I ask is why is Texas CPS trying this case in aggregate in the media? That is not normal procedure. If they were responsible, they would be telling the media to be patient until the individual cases begin. They don't need to provide justification to the media, and they are showing a lack of discretion by doing so. Their case should rely on the evidence as presented in court not in the AP.
Now if the FLDS have no couches, chairs, knives, balconies, bunk beds, etc., then you have an argument. I guarantee you - kids hurt themselves. They do things that aren't smart. You cannot judge anything from the fact that 41 out of 464 have broken bones. You can only know if abuse occurred by investigating on a case-by-case basis.
The question I ask is why is Texas CPS trying this case in aggregate in the media? That is not normal procedure. If they were responsible, they would be telling the media to be patient until the individual cases begin. They don't need to provide justification to the media, and they are showing a lack of discretion by doing so. Their case should rely on the evidence as presented in court not in the AP.
Foster Care Abuse | 2:28 p.m. April 30, 2008
CPS should be focusing on foster care because 63 children were raped in 2004,
with 10 of them being age 4-7, and 40 of them died. This information from Carole
Keetton Strayhorn, Texas Comptroller dated 6-23-06. It is a 5 page document
about what happens to kids in Texas foster care and it's more sickening
than anything you've heard about FLDS.
Name withheld | 2:33 p.m. April 30, 2008
I am wide awake. Is it illegal to live in a compound? What constitutes a
compound? Texas has not once said, "Well, these kids lived in a compound.
Everyone knows that's against the law."
Instead, CPS has made generalized accusations, timed perfectly to fit the news cycle. Why? They don't need to do this. It's certainly not professional. They already have the children. So, they simply need to prepare for the individual hearings that start next month. If they have evidence, bring it forward then. Why bully in the media?
Instead, CPS has made generalized accusations, timed perfectly to fit the news cycle. Why? They don't need to do this. It's certainly not professional. They already have the children. So, they simply need to prepare for the individual hearings that start next month. If they have evidence, bring it forward then. Why bully in the media?
Jules | 2:35 p.m. April 30, 2008
PLEEAASE stop comparing single Mother's raising children to these FLDS
multi-mothers... It is a riduculous comparisons.. 'let the raids
begin' dumb. Single Mother could = husband passed away, husband left me,
I chose to leave husband, or I had sex but the man didnt want to be around.
WHATEVER...but it does not mean "I AM AN EVIL PROMISCUOUS WOMAN WHO SHOULD
BE PERSECUTED" The FLDS weirdos are being tried for polygamy and child
abuse based on SEX WITH UNDERAGED GIRLS.... AND ALSO WITH UNDERAGED BOYS...
from the latest reports.
The world is full of problems, but this article and this conversation is based on the fact that TEXAS has had ENOUGH of this CULT world where they think they can get away with doing whatever they want.
LITTLE GIRLS SHOULD NOT BE FORCED INTO MARRIAGE AND SEX WITH THESE OLD PERVERTS WHO ARE WORSHIPPING A SELF PROCLAIMED PROPHET/CONVICT.
UG. Its frustrating. Leave the single mothers alone. Seriously...its not the same thing. Alot of women, and men, are raising children single. SOME BY CHOICE!!!!! Some do not even want a darn spouse. Whatever, some are gay and raising a child. But single and raising children is not a criminal offense.
The world is full of problems, but this article and this conversation is based on the fact that TEXAS has had ENOUGH of this CULT world where they think they can get away with doing whatever they want.
LITTLE GIRLS SHOULD NOT BE FORCED INTO MARRIAGE AND SEX WITH THESE OLD PERVERTS WHO ARE WORSHIPPING A SELF PROCLAIMED PROPHET/CONVICT.
UG. Its frustrating. Leave the single mothers alone. Seriously...its not the same thing. Alot of women, and men, are raising children single. SOME BY CHOICE!!!!! Some do not even want a darn spouse. Whatever, some are gay and raising a child. But single and raising children is not a criminal offense.
Me | 2:39 p.m. April 30, 2008
According to a radiologist friend of mine, children's bones grow in spurts,
leaving lines on the bones as the child grows.
My guess is that is what the Texan's are spinning as "fractures".
More stories from the state of the whoppers.
My guess is that is what the Texan's are spinning as "fractures".
More stories from the state of the whoppers.
me | 2:48 p.m. April 30, 2008
This is a terrible situation. But give CPS a break. There are alot of children
and they are doing their best. It's hard to investigate anything when
mothers are instructing children to lie, refusing to give last names, doing
whatever possible to hinder everything. Even if CPS removed just 10 children, I
believe FLDS would have responded in the same manner. Alot of these teen age
mothers and mothers-to-be would have been removed from the compound and sent
elsewhere before CPS could get to them. If FLDS were doing nothing wrong or if
they honestly believed they were doing nothing wrong, why lie and behave as they
are. Mothers with hankies to their eyes but I see no tears. Give the doctors
time. A bone broken by a leg or arm being twisted will be different than a bone
broken from a fall off the bunk bed. These mothers at least know where their
children are. From what I understand, the lawyers had been given access to a
list of whom was sent to what shelter. Most states do not allow the mothers to
go with the children when removed, much less know whare they are placed.
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