Deseret News | Reader comments: Pac-10, Big Ten hold us all hostage

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Pac-10, Big Ten hold us all hostage

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Provo | 3:20 a.m. April 29, 2008

The reason is that the MWC or WAC champ in any sport especially football, baseball, or basketball is probably lucky to be 4th in Big XII, Pac 10, or SEC.

selous scout | 5:20 a.m. April 29, 2008

sounds like you woke up on the wrong side of the bed today Dick. I think there is some truth in your argument, the BCS is a complicated self serving organization. There should be a non BCS team every year in a BCS game as the non BCS conferences represent around 60 Div 1 colleges.
It's very tough for non BCS schools to make the BCS as they have to overcome a recruiting disadvantage with BCS teams and thanks to Hawaii this year there will be doubts about the strength of schedule of non BCS teams

bla bla bla | 6:20 a.m. April 29, 2008

Who cares? It's only college football. Foreclosures are skyrocketing, the world is increasingly dominated by religious nut jobs of all stripes and this much debate is dedicated to a bunch of semi-literate bubble gummers running around a field?

Comments continue below

bhansen | 6:26 a.m. April 29, 2008

Maybe the Pac10 and Big10 would change their minds if everyone refused to play them.

Kevin In Texas | 7:17 a.m. April 29, 2008

Non-BCS schools will not have justice until they have a chance to become national champions. The system is still rigged against them.

college football fan | 7:50 a.m. April 29, 2008

all the otherconferences have to do is kick the WAC 10 and Little televen out of the BCS and that would be that. vote on that guys!!

RR | 7:51 a.m. April 29, 2008

First, the idea of a 4 team playoff is the worst idea anyone came up with. I'd rather have big bowl games. Only 4 teams get a chance at the title...what a joke!

I've said this before, and I have a plan for this, but make 8 conferences, get rid of the B_$, and let each conference champion be admitted to get a chance at the NC. If a team can be good enough to win its conference, it should get a chance to win it all. Teams like BYU who keep winning their conference, then have to play some lowly PAC-10 team, never get a real chance to compete with another champion.

The love of $ will not end anytime soon, thanks to overrated football conferences such as the PAC 10 and BIG 10.

jpc53 | 7:51 a.m. April 29, 2008

Don't forget Notre Dame.

Gretzky | 8:02 a.m. April 29, 2008

and it was all started by the SEC...

Just Do It! | 8:19 a.m. April 29, 2008

Forget the PAC 10 and Big 10. Give us a true national football championship.

For all the naysayers who are constantly trashing the MWC and WAC, get a life. Find a BCS conference blog to troll so you can read about teams you do find "worthy."

lost in DC | 8:19 a.m. April 29, 2008

Who really wrote this article? It can't be Dick Harmon; it doesn't mention BYU anywhere.

Whoever the author was, I agree with his call on the BCS to call the Big 10 and PAC 10 and Rose Bowl's collective bluff and say, fine, if you don't want into a playoff, we'll hold it without you.

McKay | 8:21 a.m. April 29, 2008

Re: Provo

You're dead wrong, whether or not they could compete has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with it. It has nothing to do with tradition either. It has to do with money and greed, end of story!

Harmon-ized | 8:20 a.m. April 29, 2008

Dick, your arguments are very true, but until a mid-major team(s) can CONSISTENTLY compete with the big boys and can CONSISTENTLY win non-conference games there is no reason for the power conferences to care at all about them. The BCS conferences have done quite a bit to catch the odd mid-major team that does well here or there, but to get the recognition of constant inclusion in the BCS will require CONSISTENT greatness. Not just an Alex Smith U team or a Steve Sarkesian BYU team.

The reason the Big10 is so demanding is that they pretty much invented football as we know it! Think of the mid-western teams of the 1930s through the 60s and they were dominant. Where was the demanding discussion by now mid-major universities back then to increase football stature? That's when this all started and so to hope that that would change immediately is very short-sighted. The Pac10 changed and joined that club, which is why they're sitting where they are now.

The most we can hope for is modest changes to the system over the next 40 years and hope that, in the process, mid-majors can CONSISTENTLY show they belong!

May it rain | 8:23 a.m. April 29, 2008

May it rain on the Rose Parade every year! Seriously, has there ever been an easier problem to fix that didn't get fixed?

Brett | 8:24 a.m. April 29, 2008

I can't believe I am saying this because I am not a huge Dick Harmon fan, but I 100% agree with this article. I think more attention should go to the Big 10 and Pac 10's unwillingness to have a true champion. It is all greed. Good job Dick!

jtm | 8:27 a.m. April 29, 2008

Dick give it up, the BCS is no different than everyday life, the rich get richer. Why is that concept so hard for you to understand. If Hawaii would have even come close to looking like a top ten team you may have had an argument. Untill WAC and MWC teams play tougher teams it aint going to happen. Utah playing Michigan next year is a step in the right direction.Bronco wanting to lighten the schedule is a joke, an undefeated team in the MWC isn't as good as a two loss team in the PAC 10, SEC or the Big XII in the eyes of the BCS and Hawaii proved them right.

Ernest T. Bass | 8:28 a.m. April 29, 2008

I've heard byu will be in the pac-10 in a few years so we won't have to worry about it then.

December Madness | 8:29 a.m. April 29, 2008

Provo - You make an excellent point that the MWC or WAC champ wouldn't always run the table in a BCS conference. However, I have it on good authority that Utah would have won the Big East (a BCS conference that includes W. VA, Pitt, Rutgers, and Louisville) a couple years ago, and Boise State would have won the Big Twelve (over Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, Missouri, etc.). It's also interesting to note that BYU beat UCLA, which was only the USC game away from being the worst team to ever play in a BCS game at 7-5. I guess winning the Big XII or the Big East is about the same as 4th place.

Selous Scout - There are 119 BCS Series Teams, 65 of which are represented by BCS Conferences. That leaves out the 54 "nobodies" like my Cougs. The interesting thing is that there are only about 40 teams which are consistently "bowl-eligible," and those teams should always be in contention to win it all, regardless of their conference. Besides, it doesn't matter if you're in the Big XII if your name is Baylor, right?

Carmel Candace | 8:35 a.m. April 29, 2008

"It's time to move on. If our sporting events had never evolved, we'd still be watching lions eat men." That was a great line, Mr. Harmon, you described the Georgia-Hawaii game perfectly! I guess we haven't evolved as far as we had hoped, and neither has the WAC.

Without the BigTen/Pac10, none of the other four BCS conferences could legitimately lay claim to a national championship without a serious asterisk. You know, "we won the BCS national Championship, but that undefeated USC team that creamed everyone they faced and won the Rose Bowl might have been a worthy opponent, but they exist in their own separate arrangement with the BigTen..." will just not fly with anyone. They would all rather deal with the imperfections and unfairness of the current system than risk having a playoff of questionable legitimacy missing the USC's, OSU's, and Michigans that traditionally compete for top rankings.

Layson | 8:37 a.m. April 29, 2008

To evolve means to change, not necessarily for the better. A playoff system would be a huge change for Div. 1 College Football. There's no consensus that it would be better than either the BCS OR the old Bowl system. We know that virtually everyone in the sports media wants a playoff, but do the fans really want major College Football to "evolve"?

VWiddi1 | 8:48 a.m. April 29, 2008

The BCS is ridiculous in college sports. Everyone should have equal opportunity. The BCS schools use this as a serious advantage for recruiting. The tournament for basketball works just fine for college. All the excuses about a playoff in football are just hogwash to keep the bcs in place. It's more about money and trying to monopolize the football market than about ameture college students and athletics. It's absolutly ridiculous and I cant beleive the NCAA allows it to continue. It definately needs to be done away with. I feel the only way USC even gets good LDS athletes over BYU is that selling point of playing for a national title. Should'nt all colleges have that opportunity ? Of course they should. More people should protest this and make this stupid BCS thing go away. It could easily be done. Have all the colleges play a maximum 10 regular season games, start play two weeks earlier and add a 16 team playoff with the champion of each conference going in. It would make the conf games more meaningful and competitive, and would eliminate any and all controversy regarding the true national champion every year.

BSU81 | 8:51 a.m. April 29, 2008

Actually, BSU can compete with any of them at any time. Put them in the conference, give them the standard conference benefits and they would rise to the top. This goes for the MWC and other WAC elite teams as well.

As it is BSU has already proved itself. They are already the PAC 10 champs in wrestling!

The article speaks of the outrage of USC fans waking up and finding they were excluded from the championship. Big deal, that is the reality for every mid-major team. Time for the Senate to have the system fixed or shut them down.

I dispise elitism.

It's and Its | 8:55 a.m. April 29, 2008

ï¿½Their Rose Bowl enjoys favored nation status, it's own exclusive TV deal,ï¿½

ï¿½That's not football in Pasadena, it's a pair of poodles dancing under strobe lights.ï¿½

ï¿½...they can work with a plus-one system if its done before their contract expires in 2014.ï¿½

Considering the above examples, the writer seems confused about the proper usage and spelling of "it's" and "its". It's a common error in most Deseret News articles and elsewhere.

Re: bla bla bla | 9:00 a.m. April 29, 2008

You obviously care. Otherwise you wouldn't be reading a sports article. If it's such a waste of your time, do something else. No one asked for your comments. It's nice though that in a world where there is so much going wrong, we can divert ourselves with sports.

Dutchman | 9:03 a.m. April 29, 2008

I have railed on this before so I will state it again, the non BCS conferences should start their own playoff series and crown their own national champion much like the AFL went after the NFL in the 60's. I just got my season ticket renewal notice from the University of Utah. My ticket prices for this year increased 27% over last year. Chris Hill, the atletic director at the U, says the U cannot even afford to give every deserving athlete a scholarship. All this because the big greedy conferences have a cartel that hogs all the money. My interest is turning more and more toward professional football where yes, the players make millions, but the playing field is level with every team sharing in the revenue, a draft that is fair, and a playoff series leading to a real champion.

NJ UTE | 9:08 a.m. April 29, 2008

Not a suprise that those with the money don't want to give it up, but if you want a true National Champion, you have to change something. No question what we have today is a complete joke. I agree that the other 4 should split and do their own thing as it would devalue the Rose Bowl so much they would have no choice but to join in at some point. Then we would be on the way at least to a real system. The 4 team play-off not being the final answer, but it is a step in the right direction. Hopefully leading to something more like the NCAA Basketball Tourney (the greastest sporting event there is), of course there is now way to have 64 teams, more like 16. 11 confrence champions and 5 at large (or something like that, you could even pool some of the weaker confrences to lower that number). The end result would be that the weaker confrences would have a recruiting tool to help them get better as well. This has helped level the field a bit in basketball and makes the overall tourney even better, Football would benefit the same way.

grow up? | 9:09 a.m. April 29, 2008

Dick writes grow up, yet he is the one getting really upset about a game and he is what 60.....65 years old? Funny. If a playoff came about then he would be griping because no MWC team could get into the playoff.

Anonymous | 9:09 a.m. April 29, 2008

To Provo, often there are teams from the so-called mid-majors that are good enough to compete the best from any of those conferences. A few years to, it was Utah. After that it was Boise St. This year, it might be BYU.

To Bla Bla Bla, this is the sports page. Do your ranting about religion and the economy on the editorial page.

Solution | 9:19 a.m. April 29, 2008

To me the solution to this problem is a simple one. If the non-BCS schools would stop sucking up to the BCS conferences for just a minute, begging for the crumbs that fall from their table, they would be able to see it as well. Here it is:

ALL NON-BCS SCHOOLS SHOULD REFUSE TO PLAY ANY REGULAR SEASON BCS GAMES UNTIL THE BCS AGREES TO TREAT ALL CONFERENCES FAIRLY.

Until then, the non-BCS schools could just start their own playoff and move on. Think about it. Do you think the Florida Gators would like to replace Hawaii and The Citadel on their schedule this year with other BCS schools? How about Ohio State? They are going to play Youngstown State and Troy University. DO you think they would mind loosing those gimmee games? Texas starts their year with Florida Atlantic and UTEP. The list goes on.

If the non-BCS schools will stop begging to be included and actually demand it or they walk away then something will happen. Until then, they get a pat on the head and crumbs that drop to the floor. That's all they can expect. So stop whining and do something!!!

Winers | 9:23 a.m. April 29, 2008

Just a bunch of cry babies, the big conferences should get to decide because they are the reason we watch college football, not the jv conferences like the mountian west or the wac...why would you want a playoff? No way BYU or Utah would ever sniff the title game....

Nathan | 9:23 a.m. April 29, 2008

Why doesn't the NCAA have any say in this?

Pete | 9:38 a.m. April 29, 2008

Bla Bla Bla - this is a sports column. Go to cnn.com or some other political blabfest if you want to talk politics. Thanks

re: bla bla bla | 9:41 a.m. April 29, 2008

Sports fans like me care. Following sports AND the "important stuff" in the world are not mutually exclusive. Here's an idea for you, if you don't think sports are not worth the time to read and follow . . . then don't read the sports section. (And certainly don't waste any of your precious time actually posting a comment about sports, hurry, go read something about Iraq before you waste any more of your time)

As for the rest of us, this is something of interest as a sports fan. That's why we follow it, and that's why Dick wrote about it.

Poor MWC | 9:42 a.m. April 29, 2008

This article sounds to typical of BYU and other MWC fans. Waaaah The PAC 10 and Big 10 have been tied into the Rose Bowl for many many years. They want to keep the storied tradition of the match up in the Rose Bowl. I agree that SC should have played a tougher team in the Rose Bowl.

If a football team such as BYU were in the PAC 10, they would consistently be in the bottom third of the conference. In a year that Bronco and the boys are claiming they are making a run for the BCS, they are playing such powerhouses as USU and Norther Iowa.

In response to Bhansen, there are many schools that won't play pac 10 and big 10 teams. Sure they get a nice paycheck for their efforts, but they will also suffer a beating. Look at USC's schedule and you will see they will play all comers. I would love to have USC and BYU play again. But, the cougars won't do it because it would ruin their chance at a perfect season and a run at the BCS.

I do think that a plus one game would help.

One critical issue | 9:42 a.m. April 29, 2008

I think that Dick makes some good points in here, but one important thing is being left out...THE SPONSORS and NATIONAL AUDIENCE! The sponsors and Big BCS games (especially the Rose Bowl)don't want to pit some one year wonder against a storied program from a tougher conference. The sponsors pony up the MILLIONS to see the Ohio St's and Michigans play the USC's and Texas'. Why, more people on a national scale would rather sit down and watch it (especially after last year's debacle with Hawaii). Face it MWC, nobody (on a national scale) wants to see your teams vs an Ohio St or Michigan or USC or Florida (list goes on and on) in these big games! Why don't you worry about fielding some better teams and bigger fan bases and shoring up a nice tv contract before griping about the Big Boys. You brought it on yourselves anyways!! If BYU and Utah hadn't got their GRAND idea of taking some of the other schools and breaking away from the WAC, they might already be a BCS conference. There would be no reason to shut that conference out...Utah, BYU, BSU, Fresno St., TCU, etc...

Re: bla bla bla | 9:50 a.m. April 29, 2008

spoken like the drama queen you are...or was it the debate team?

Dear Mr. Lyson | 9:50 a.m. April 29, 2008

Do fans want a playoff system? I bet they overwhelmingly do. I hear it more vocally and more passionately stated from sports friends than any media outlet. Fans often don't have the bully pulpit of a newspaper columnist but they definitely do, as far as I can tell, want a playoff. This includes my friends in BCS territory and graduates of BCS schools.

Aloha Dubai | 9:54 a.m. April 29, 2008

Why all the focus on a championship? Is it really so important that we send almost every team home with a loss in their final game and stretch out the season so that we can "definitively" say who won it all? What about the 5th place team with 1 loss? We will never get it right and I don't think it is so important to get it right. I, for one, prefer the pageantry and tradition associated with the old bowl structure. Ditch the BCS all together and forget about a national championship!

BCS system is revolting | 9:57 a.m. April 29, 2008

Agreed. The Pac-10 and Big Ten stack the odds. Politics positions them for big money and big games before big time players even step onto the field.

With those odds these teams should be several times greater than the so-called lesser conferences, but ironically they are not. All that money and the gap is rather small comparatively. Come on people. It's a tired story. If we believed these lies the American revolution would never have happened. The British empire would have won without stepping onto the battlefield and we'd all be playing cricket. But don't speak out against the system; it has been determined that the royal bloodlines have the divine right to be the best, no one outside the elite could be good, and no other way could be more competitive.

Frankly, I think the big conferences are afraid to even out the odds. All their recruits would evenly distribute themselves elsewhere if given a fair market system. Competition would reign supreme because current prima donnas riding on coattails would have to earn their way like everyone else.

Stop Whining | 10:05 a.m. April 29, 2008

You want respect than go after it and stop scheduling Southwestern Iowa State and stop ducking Boise State.

Re: "Winers" | 10:07 a.m. April 29, 2008

The metric is money. University presidents, athletic departments and regents want funding. Those illiterates (think the author of "Winers" who is probably a shining example of PAC-10 education) who think sports was invented by the PAC-10 are only whining themselves.

Ing | 10:08 a.m. April 29, 2008

To "Winers": Who's this "we" you're talking about? You're talking trash right in the front yard of all sorts of people who would rather watch the MWC than any of these big conferences of yours.

As for there being no way BYU or Utah would ever sniff the title game if there was a playoff system, I doubt it. The BCS system is made to ensure that teams like BYU and Utah don't get a chance at a title. Anybody remember the undefeated Utes team a few years ago that never even got MENTIONED as a title contender? There were other undefeated BCS teams, so of course they didn't have a chance at the championship--but in a 4-team playoff they would at least have had a chance to let their play, not someone else's perceptions or mere conference affiliation, determine whether they were worthy of the title.

Dunno about you, but I thought the idea behind sports was that teams PLAYED EACH OTHER to see who was the best, not just called "our conference is better" at each other from separate bowl games.

Re bla bla bla | 10:09 a.m. April 29, 2008

This is the sports section. If you want to read about all of that, go to the front page. All of that other stuff is the reason some of us try to forget it for a while with something else like sports.

Josh | 10:10 a.m. April 29, 2008

Hey "Winers", maybe not every year, but every so often you get the Smith/Meyer Utes or the Doman/Staley Cougars. Do they deserve a chance at a legitimate championship?

A legitimate champion... something the BCS has yet to provide.

Baseball has steroids, the NBA has it's whiney floppers, college football has the BCS.

philly | 10:13 a.m. April 29, 2008

I almost had some encouraging thoughts until I thought of our beloved conference commisioner sticking up for the best interests of the conference.

Reply to bla, bla, bla | 10:22 a.m. April 29, 2008

bla, bla, bla, "Who cares?" You must. You're reading the sports page, the article and taking the time to make comments.

WKJ in Pennsylvania | 10:27 a.m. April 29, 2008

I'm SO tired of the argument, "Until mid-major schools can compete with the big boys, they should stop whining about the BCS."

The mid-major schools have a tough time competing BECAUSE of the BCS. The BCS schools have a major recruiting advantage. Talent leans strongly their way. We've got to get rid of this stupid system and then see what happens! Give liberty a try! It works! :)

Re: Poor MWC | 10:31 a.m. April 29, 2008

What I would have loved to see is USC play BYU in 2006 because they would have had their little trojan trash kicked. Last time USC played BYU was during the Crowton years, the same years that UNLV beat us, that was hardly a fair representation of true BYU football. BYU has done a pretty good job at holding their own over the past couple of years being in a poor conference, constantly rebuilding the loss of key starters, and still dominating the conference. They fact that they have gone this far in the MWC in the national rankings after losing all of our starters is pretty impressive. Let's see any other MWC team, or any college team period do that.

Duke football is the best | 10:37 a.m. April 29, 2008

To all who back the Big Conference System. BYU, for example, was better than most of the teams from any of your conferences of choice last year. If you think about it, your argument really is that the last place team in your conference has more rights to a BCS National title in this coming year than any team on the outside conferences. That's your system. It's Bogus!!!!

In other words, you are backing a conference, so you are only as strong as your weakest link: ACC: Duke (1-11), Big East: Syracuse (2-10), Big 12: Baylor (3-9), Big 10: Minnesota (1-11), Pac 10: Washington (4-9) SEC: Mississippi (3-9). You think we are scared of these national title contenders?

We are backing equal access for all teams no matter the conference. My team, BYU, will be ranked in the upper twenty to start next season and should be treated with the respect to be among those elite until they lose that designation. I'll respect Duke, Baylor, Minnesota, Washington, and Mississippi if they get there, but until then I don't have to respect them just because their own made up system does. Play us in Provo. Get your rightful title: Losers!

BYU ..... Who? | 10:52 a.m. April 29, 2008

I just moved here for Texas an boy are you Cougar fans disillusioned. You do not have the talent to beat the teams at the top. Florida on a 9-2 season would beat you in your best years. Texas, Oklahoma, USC, Ohio State. They would run by your slow footed players with ease. Even though your roster of freshman and sophomores whos classmates are in the NFL because they are 25 years old. Why come to Provo and set in a stadium with 65,000 when you can come to SEC or Big Eight county and play in front 85,000+ and have all the excuses in the world.

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