Reader comments
Crash course may help LDS organists to soar
20 comments | Read story
It's out there. | 10:17 a.m. April 29, 2008
On the church's website it states: "If an organ is available, it is
normally used for prelude and postlude music and hymn accompaniment. The piano
may be used for these purposes when an organ is not available."
The church has training available on it's website, BYU does too, and the American Guild of Organists is organized for the purpose of training and promoting the organ, and chapters are available almost everywhere in the country. LDS organist don't often seek out training on their own, but it is out there if we get out of our little comfort zones, and not think that everything has to come from SLC.
The church has training available on it's website, BYU does too, and the American Guild of Organists is organized for the purpose of training and promoting the organ, and chapters are available almost everywhere in the country. LDS organist don't often seek out training on their own, but it is out there if we get out of our little comfort zones, and not think that everything has to come from SLC.
Agreed | 10:34 a.m. April 29, 2008
I agree with Kenneth that training on the organ would be great all over the
world. There are several here in Southern Utah that could use the help.
We've tried to have several stake sponsored organ trainings, but those who
need it most don't come for whatever reason. It's a sad story. We have
some great resources here in the St. George area. It's too bad more
pianists/organist don't take advantage of them.
Comments continue below
Matt | 10:35 a.m. April 29, 2008
Kennneth,
FYI, there are two almost free BYU independent self-study courses available for organists. They are "almost free" because, although the course itself is free, it appears that you need to purchase some textbooks. For a $24.00 fee, you can also have a "certification" option. The certification option requires you to find a local organ instructor who can help you fulfill some of the requirements.
The courses are Music 71 and Music 72, available here:
http://ce.byu.edu/is/site/courses/freecourses.cfm
FYI, there are two almost free BYU independent self-study courses available for organists. They are "almost free" because, although the course itself is free, it appears that you need to purchase some textbooks. For a $24.00 fee, you can also have a "certification" option. The certification option requires you to find a local organ instructor who can help you fulfill some of the requirements.
The courses are Music 71 and Music 72, available here:
http://ce.byu.edu/is/site/courses/freecourses.cfm
Jared | 11:59 a.m. April 29, 2008
I agree that the piano is fine for Sacrament meeting but if no one plays the
organ but people play the piano, why shouldn't the pianist try to learn the
organ? Part of church callings is improving your skills, so if pianists learn
the organ then they are improving their skills. The piano is a wonderful
instrument - it's the first I learned to play - but the organ is in a class
by itself. There's a reason it's generally used in the LDS Church
worship services, including Conference. It's not just the volume that
organs can produce either. There's something sublime and heavenly about the
organ, and I'm not just using hyperbole for fun. The organ is dreadfully
difficult to play though. I'm just barely to the point after playing for
about 12 years that I can play most of the hymns with only a couple run-throughs
to warm up. Church members certainly could use more training on organ technique
though.
Steve | 4:01 p.m. April 29, 2008
Most of the new organs contain a "cheater-stop" (Bass Coupler) which
allows an organ to sound full even without the use of the pedals. Registration
and the touch can be taught with out too much difficulty, perhaps even in one or
two sittings, and then the pedals can be learned later. (The pedals really are
the hardest part of transitioning from piano to organ. The touch really
isn't that hard to learn.)
I found that learning to play the pedals during prelude and postlude was easier than during congregational hymns, and once I mastered that, I moved it over into the standard hymns.
I found that learning to play the pedals during prelude and postlude was easier than during congregational hymns, and once I mastered that, I moved it over into the standard hymns.
Kenneth | 9:52 p.m. April 29, 2008
Get a grip. The respect for Sacrament Meeting in large congretations demand an
organ. Somebody is always trying to cheapen the progam.
Dan | 6:59 a.m. April 30, 2008
There are very practical reasons to prefer organ over piano for accompanying
hymns. One is that the piano, a percussive instrument, begins a decay in its
tone from the instant a note is struck. Accordingly, it often cannot be heard by
singers beyond the fourth or fifth row if there is much singing going on at all.
Congregations depend upon the steady sustained tone of an organ for the support
of their singing. In forty years of playing both instruments for services I have
seen this principle demonstrated countless times. Aside from the inspired
counsel quoted above, it turns out that there are incontrovertible laws of
physics involved as well and both lead to the same conclusion: where available,
prefer the organ.
Tom | 7:10 a.m. April 30, 2008
My own opinion: I would be very satisfied if all we ever had was the piano in
church. In general conference the organ playing is at its worst: flowery,
overindulged, heavy handed, and very distracting. But then again, when MOTAB
sings what better instrument could there be to drown out the old fashioned
warblings of the choir than a loud, pompous organ. Give me the
�amateur� purity of the youth choirs
over the MOTAB any day, accompanied by the piano please.
Jennifer | 8:12 a.m. April 30, 2008
I think it's interesting that all comments are coming from men. I have
played the piano for 20 years, and the organ for 5. While I agree that more
people need to know how to play the organ, I think it's easier for men to
find the time to practice than women. Unless you are incredibly lucky and have
an organ in your house, you have to find time to go to the church and practice.
I also agree that if you have learn to play the organ, you should. However I see nothing wrong with playing the piano during sacrament meeting. I would rather hear the piano than the organist that can't keep a beat or play the hymn with 95% accuracy.
I also agree that if you have learn to play the organ, you should. However I see nothing wrong with playing the piano during sacrament meeting. I would rather hear the piano than the organist that can't keep a beat or play the hymn with 95% accuracy.
Jean | 9:48 a.m. April 30, 2008
Thanks Matt for the link to the organ courses at BYU. I learned to play the
organ as a teenager but then I didn't use my skill for a lot of years. Now
when I play I don't use the pedals. The congregation doesn't really
notice but I would be a lot happier knowing that I can play better and use the
pedals. Now if I can just get into the chapel to practice, I'll be on my
way. Thanks again Matt.
Nancy | 10:51 a.m. April 30, 2008
Ah rats! People AWAY from Utah would have enjoyed this class. Let's have
some advertisment many of us can inculcate!
Matt | 1:48 p.m. April 30, 2008
Jean,
Glad the link was useful. Now, go badger someone in your bishopric to get you a building key so you can practice! :) You need a key as badly as the YM/YW president.
If they're stubborn about building keys (I've heard of some wards that are), don't back down easily. Offer to set up a schedule with someone in the bishopric where they can come and let you in to the building at a set time, then lock up afterwards. :)
Or, go to the stake music chairman and explain the situation, and let him/her see if there is anything they can do. Also, there is most likely a high counselor who is over music in the stake, and you could make your case to him, as well. (Sorry, I feel strongly about this issue, if you couldn't tell.)
Good luck!
Glad the link was useful. Now, go badger someone in your bishopric to get you a building key so you can practice! :) You need a key as badly as the YM/YW president.
If they're stubborn about building keys (I've heard of some wards that are), don't back down easily. Offer to set up a schedule with someone in the bishopric where they can come and let you in to the building at a set time, then lock up afterwards. :)
Or, go to the stake music chairman and explain the situation, and let him/her see if there is anything they can do. Also, there is most likely a high counselor who is over music in the stake, and you could make your case to him, as well. (Sorry, I feel strongly about this issue, if you couldn't tell.)
Good luck!
Anonymous | 2:47 p.m. April 30, 2008
more important than whether a piano or organ is used is the manner in which it
is played. I don't like being critical, but can't help but fill
annoyed when I sing hymns in our ward. Our ward organist is unpredictable. He
plays nicely, but often throws in interludes, postludes, deceptive cadences, and
alternate harmonies. It is really hard to sing along with that. I don't
think the hymns need to be fancied up. Rather, they should be played exactly as
written, but with the emotion intended. If the hymn says fervently, then play
it fervently. Keep it simple.
David M. Newlin | 8:55 p.m. April 30, 2008
As a relativly mature adult male, active HP-type, long-time keyboard,
multi-generational, non-professional but pretty good musician (who also is the
Stake and Ward organist and the primary pianist), any training that you can get
is better than none.
I have a monster of a pipe organ (really too big for the mid-70's building that is our Stake Center). I say "I" because most everyone else is afraid of it.
They don't call the organ the King of Instrumetns for no reason. What ever the issue about organ playing, there is a structure to resolve it (Handbook, Ward Music Chairman, Bishopric). Any time that music is not uplifting, there is a concern. On the other hand, there is just no pleasing some people about music - part of the general dumbing down of the populace I guess.
Study and get yourself perfected... on the organ or something.
Regards;
DMN
I have a monster of a pipe organ (really too big for the mid-70's building that is our Stake Center). I say "I" because most everyone else is afraid of it.
They don't call the organ the King of Instrumetns for no reason. What ever the issue about organ playing, there is a structure to resolve it (Handbook, Ward Music Chairman, Bishopric). Any time that music is not uplifting, there is a concern. On the other hand, there is just no pleasing some people about music - part of the general dumbing down of the populace I guess.
Study and get yourself perfected... on the organ or something.
Regards;
DMN
Tom | 8:37 a.m. May 1, 2008
I am proud of the posters for largely ignoring my "instigative"
previous post. In fact, no one took the MOTAB bait. Either it means you agree,
or you are above those types of comments. Either way, I'm satisfied :)
Thomas | 10:36 p.m. May 1, 2008
I have several replies to the above comments. My first is to Tom.
In case you check back, I do have one thing to say in regards to your comment.
For whatever reason, the official musical style of the music in General Conference is late Romantic (which I'm sure has a lot of atheists laughing at us!) This is what is really behind the "flowery, overindulged, heavy-handed sound" you refer to.
As for ward choir, it has its own typical style: New Age. I think we all know that Elder Packer has done his best to discourage that sound. Unfortunately, the Baroque style has also been discouraged (and I'm not blaming him--I'm not sure who is responsible for that). The Baroque style is light and, in the opinion of many, more religious.
To "anonymous," I have this to say:
Interludes and reharmonizations of hymns have their place. They are particularly inspiring in stake conference settings when everyone is singing unison anyway (or should be, since half the congregation doesn't have music usually). As for an every-meeting thing. . . I can understand it getting distracting. It is a technique that should be used, but sparingly.
In case you check back, I do have one thing to say in regards to your comment.
For whatever reason, the official musical style of the music in General Conference is late Romantic (which I'm sure has a lot of atheists laughing at us!) This is what is really behind the "flowery, overindulged, heavy-handed sound" you refer to.
As for ward choir, it has its own typical style: New Age. I think we all know that Elder Packer has done his best to discourage that sound. Unfortunately, the Baroque style has also been discouraged (and I'm not blaming him--I'm not sure who is responsible for that). The Baroque style is light and, in the opinion of many, more religious.
To "anonymous," I have this to say:
Interludes and reharmonizations of hymns have their place. They are particularly inspiring in stake conference settings when everyone is singing unison anyway (or should be, since half the congregation doesn't have music usually). As for an every-meeting thing. . . I can understand it getting distracting. It is a technique that should be used, but sparingly.
Thomas2 | 10:40 p.m. May 1, 2008
As for the piano-organ debate, I would like to express this opinion:
I think the piano can easily match our small electronic organs and most of the pipe organs in our buildings. The issue there is about decay time, as mentioned above, but also character. The percussive sound of the piano does accent the beat a little too much for a sacrament meeting.
There are many hymns I like to call "rhythm" hymns--you know the kinds I'm talking about. They usually sound better on the piano than the organ. These I tend to avoid in sacrament meeting settings. I see them as being for firesides or other meetings. But if you are asked to play them in sacrament meeting, the piano is likely the better choice (of course, there is that organ vs. piano instruction in the handbook...)
On the other hand, there are some hymns that simply don't sound good on the piano at all. "All Creatures of Our God and King" is a perfect example. "Press Forward Saints" is another. These lose most of their character on the piano. So I think the hymns themselves need to be considered.
I think the piano can easily match our small electronic organs and most of the pipe organs in our buildings. The issue there is about decay time, as mentioned above, but also character. The percussive sound of the piano does accent the beat a little too much for a sacrament meeting.
There are many hymns I like to call "rhythm" hymns--you know the kinds I'm talking about. They usually sound better on the piano than the organ. These I tend to avoid in sacrament meeting settings. I see them as being for firesides or other meetings. But if you are asked to play them in sacrament meeting, the piano is likely the better choice (of course, there is that organ vs. piano instruction in the handbook...)
On the other hand, there are some hymns that simply don't sound good on the piano at all. "All Creatures of Our God and King" is a perfect example. "Press Forward Saints" is another. These lose most of their character on the piano. So I think the hymns themselves need to be considered.
Thomas | 11:45 p.m. May 1, 2008
After tossing and turning for a while, I've felt compelled to revisit my
comments above about musical style.
My point was that Tom's complaint was really about general musical style rather than organ playing. The responsibility lies more with the directors of the Choir than the Tabernacle Organists.
I need to retract my comparison of Mack Wilberg's music to the late Romantic style. His harmonic language is much closer to Mendelssohn's than that of Brahms or Wagner (who really would have the atheists laughing). This would make Choir's style more middle Romantic than late.
I also need to clarify what I said about Baroque music. It is lighter in the way it is played on the organ. However, it probably will not sound lighter to the average listener. Again, early Baroque is simpler and "lighter" than later Baroque. I, for one, would love to hear the style of Palestrina or Josquin de Prez in our meetings.
As for the "New Age" style, I should have just come right out and said Pop. My pet peeve is the Brittany Spears-style Sacrament meeting solo with the New Age style piano accompaniment.
My point was that Tom's complaint was really about general musical style rather than organ playing. The responsibility lies more with the directors of the Choir than the Tabernacle Organists.
I need to retract my comparison of Mack Wilberg's music to the late Romantic style. His harmonic language is much closer to Mendelssohn's than that of Brahms or Wagner (who really would have the atheists laughing). This would make Choir's style more middle Romantic than late.
I also need to clarify what I said about Baroque music. It is lighter in the way it is played on the organ. However, it probably will not sound lighter to the average listener. Again, early Baroque is simpler and "lighter" than later Baroque. I, for one, would love to hear the style of Palestrina or Josquin de Prez in our meetings.
As for the "New Age" style, I should have just come right out and said Pop. My pet peeve is the Brittany Spears-style Sacrament meeting solo with the New Age style piano accompaniment.
Blaine | 3:02 p.m. May 4, 2008
The problem is more than just the availability of instruction on the organ:
it's often also lack of initiative and desire on the part of those who
play the piano to learn a new skill (organ). Last year I posted an invitation
in the ward bulletins of 3 wards in our stake, inviting all interested to
participate in free organ instruction. I received not one response. This
saddened me. Today, however, I was approached by a 12-year old boy who is
learning to play piano, and who wanted to learn organ as well. I gladly offered
to teach him for free as long as he was willing to dedicate himself to learning.
We start lessons this Saturday!
Add your comment
Comments are monitored. Any comments found to be abusive, offensive, off-topic, misrepresentative, more than 200 words or containing URLs will not be posted.
Words Remaining
E-mail address: For internal use only. We may want to contact you to publish your comment (not your e-mail address) in the newspaper or for a separate story idea.
Mark Anderson gives a demonstration on a Rodgers organ during the conference held Saturday at Brigham Young University.
- Kings rally past Panthers in SO 9:03 p.m.
- Guerin sparks Penguins past Ducks 8:44 p.m.
- Voracek lifts Blue Jackets past Oilers 8:42 p.m.
- Hawks beat Blazers in OT 8:40 p.m.
- Ravens, Browns scoreless at halftime 8:38 p.m.
- Jazz rookies a bit more seasoned 8:35 p.m.
- Tepanyaki will pay $30K settlement 8:30 p.m.
- Nu Skin milestone at NYSE 8:30 p.m.
- GM to pay back $6.7B debt to gov't 8:29 p.m.
- BYU's O-line looking to get healthy 8:29 p.m.
- MWC expand? Get rid of deadweight
- Relieved Cougs prep for Falcons
- Wounded Utes limp home
- Jazz rookies had to grow up quickly
- Big games keep UHSAA coffers full
- Barzee to plead guilty
- Sloan misses practice
- RSL surprised by Chicago's Fire
- Vitamin D deficiency puts U.S. at risk
- Jazz notes: Young bigs ride bench
- TCU creams U.
233 - BYU happy to escape with victory232
- Editorial: Mormons and gay rights225
- Will state consider gay rights law?162
- RSL heads to MLS title game134
- Can BYU root for (ick) Utah Utes?132
- MWC expand? Get rid of deadweight117
- TCU stays 4th in AP; Y. 19th, U. 23rd115
- 5A: Bingham rolls to title game108
- 3A: Hurricane advances to title game89
The Gateway, 400 W. 200 South, will kick off the holiday shopping season...
I was a bit under the weather last week, which gave me some time to...
Advertisement
Latest comments
"One day however" thanks for your contributions...maybe one day the people...
I'm all for civil rights, but what is a religion doing invoking their ideals...
When did Christ visit Asia??? Buddha was not Christ!
"Small schools travel better than the big ones." No, they just travel...
Sarah could save her prayers for getting the help she needs to speak publicly...
please, please, please end the relationship with the scouts and focus on DTG.
people who say dollhouse is not worth keeping clearly are the shallow type....
We were in the first car that Mr. Taylor hit around 53rd south. We were...
Was their salad dressing recipe. The best dressing ever. Anyone know where I...
At the rate they're going this year, USC will be available at the end of this...
Advertisements
This is great for church members on the Wasatch Front. But, the church is big and growing outside Utah. Such training for us would be nice.
If a pianist is called to play in Sacrament meeting, why do they have to play organ? I know of no church policy that says that. I think that is more tradition -- people like the organ, which is a beautiful instrument that greatly enhances worship services. But, why should people feel forced to self-train on the organ, which may lead to learning poor technique? Every LDS Chapel I've been in that has an organ, also has a piano. That piano can be used for more than just ward choir and special musical numbers. There are several branches of the church outside of Utah that are lucky to have an upright piano, much less an organ and grand piano. A popular scripture states "A song of the heart is a prayer unto me". It does not say "A song accompanied by the organ is a prayer unto me".