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Complaints grow about Utah politics
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Herby | 10:38 a.m. April 25, 2008
I have a solution for all you babies! Get out to the caucus meetings and
outnumber these people if you don't like them. But instead you would rather
sit home and watch American Idol and then complain.
Change needed | 10:46 a.m. April 25, 2008
The caucus meeting format needs to change. It brings out the ultra right and
the ultra left. Moderates have little influence in political outcomes. As a life
long Republican, I am disgusted by the controling right wing of my party and the
likes of Bramble, Lockhart, Stevenson, etc. Their arrogance and elitism is
appaling. I think a third party is needed, which would include moderate
Republicans and Democrats.
Unhappy in Happy Valley | 10:47 a.m. April 25, 2008
This is Utah County's dirty little secret: The voters have little to no
voice in who our elected officials are. They are chosen by the Republican
powers. We really need to move to a primary system where voters get to decide
who will be elected.
At the last county convention, the rules were consistently broken by incumbants while the party "leaders" looked the other way.
For a people that believe so much in freedom and the right to vote, it's outrageous that we allow the Republic Party kingpins to select our "elected" officials.
Maybe it's time for a Tea Party at Utah Lake.
At the last county convention, the rules were consistently broken by incumbants while the party "leaders" looked the other way.
For a people that believe so much in freedom and the right to vote, it's outrageous that we allow the Republic Party kingpins to select our "elected" officials.
Maybe it's time for a Tea Party at Utah Lake.
Comments continue below
Alternate | 11:04 a.m. April 25, 2008
Message boards sell papers. The DNews and the Trib need to sell papers.
Nothing better to sell papers that a good political debate with a little Mormon
hating thrown in. That stirs up both sides real good. This story fits that
mold nicely. The writer throws out a few juicy tidbits and then lets nature
take it course. The result is an overflowing message board to show to the
advertisers that yes we sell papers so give us your ad money.
RH | 11:23 a.m. April 25, 2008
Simple solution to the problem, not only our state but on the national side too.
Vote out the incumbents and get new ideas/people in office. That is the power of
the people to place "term limits" on our elected officials. Don't
like what they are doing/saying, VOTE THEM OUT!
Stewart | 11:47 a.m. April 25, 2008
Wow! What a bunch of victims posted comments here. Of course a victim is a
whiner that never does anything about the situation, because the problem is
caused by "Them." Then there are those that never fight the battle
beyond their anonymous keyboard.
I | 12:12 p.m. April 25, 2008
You people that make fun of Ron Paul or Rhalph Nader have probaly never listened
to them speak.
I voted for Nader and I would do it again because he has no one pulling his strings, he pays for things himself. Ron Paul wants to get rid of income tax, and have federal sales tax instead which is the only fair way to tax anyway. The more you spend th emor e you pay. No tax write offs to protect the mega rich. H as anyonr asked themslves why there is tax returns? It is way to tax twice. If it was fair you would pay taxes and be done. The party system should be outlawed as the gangster it is. People should have to learn about everyone they are going to vote for. Use our minds instead of platforms.
I voted for Nader and I would do it again because he has no one pulling his strings, he pays for things himself. Ron Paul wants to get rid of income tax, and have federal sales tax instead which is the only fair way to tax anyway. The more you spend th emor e you pay. No tax write offs to protect the mega rich. H as anyonr asked themslves why there is tax returns? It is way to tax twice. If it was fair you would pay taxes and be done. The party system should be outlawed as the gangster it is. People should have to learn about everyone they are going to vote for. Use our minds instead of platforms.
dear Demopublican | 12:14 p.m. April 25, 2008
the fact that Utah is no longer balanced between the political parties is not a
reflection on the "smarts" of Utahans; is it a reflection of the fact
that the Democratic Party has plunged off a cliff of left wing looney depraved
policy positions. The solution if the current Republican Party is inadequate is
not voting Democrat, it is a new MORE CONSERVATIVE party to give folks an
alternative to a Republican Party that has lost it's way.
Drew Chamberlain | 12:28 p.m. April 25, 2008
Many thanks to those trying to clean up the Republican party. Utah County and
State officers can change their ways and I would encourage them to be more
honest. If the officers do not wish to change then it is the duty of the
delegates to throw them out! Get to work.
Mike | 1:04 p.m. April 25, 2008
Did Ridgeway move to Utah County? If so, have fun at the county central
committee meetings. He'll take up all the time.
The bottom line in Utah Republican Politics is that those with the money make the rules. The Huntman's, Cannon's, Price's, Mr. Mac,et. al. run the show. You go to the Salt Lake County Lincoln day dinner and if you are rich, no one will talk to you. Once they find out you are a regular Joe, you get ignored.
You can bet that when Mr. Mac says jump, Orrin Hatch says how high.
All the grass roots need to rise up and throw these people out of office both as elected officials, and party officials. They will not listen to the common man because the common man has nothing to give them (money).
I get sick and tired of the elected Republicans running as Conservatives and governing as Liberals. I want my taxes lower, I want the government to quit supporting everyone, I want those who got into stupid home loans forclosed on if they can't pay, I want "green" inititives trashed.
I WANT MY PARTY BACK!!!!! By the way, I always go to my party caucus.
The bottom line in Utah Republican Politics is that those with the money make the rules. The Huntman's, Cannon's, Price's, Mr. Mac,et. al. run the show. You go to the Salt Lake County Lincoln day dinner and if you are rich, no one will talk to you. Once they find out you are a regular Joe, you get ignored.
You can bet that when Mr. Mac says jump, Orrin Hatch says how high.
All the grass roots need to rise up and throw these people out of office both as elected officials, and party officials. They will not listen to the common man because the common man has nothing to give them (money).
I get sick and tired of the elected Republicans running as Conservatives and governing as Liberals. I want my taxes lower, I want the government to quit supporting everyone, I want those who got into stupid home loans forclosed on if they can't pay, I want "green" inititives trashed.
I WANT MY PARTY BACK!!!!! By the way, I always go to my party caucus.
re: Hey, I Know- - - | 1:22 p.m. April 25, 2008
Yeah you are are real funny. Keep calling him crazy as your country delves into
the toilet. Keep electing candidates that do not adhere to the Constitution,
they guide post for our government. Keep electing candidates from the parties of
"change" that never change anything.
America had it's chance, they failed the IQ test and now they deserve whatever fate is in store.
America had it's chance, they failed the IQ test and now they deserve whatever fate is in store.
DeepNwide | 1:22 p.m. April 25, 2008
The great divide in Utah continues to widen.
It's people and things in Utah like these that keep the gentiles (anti's) in Utah "persecuting" the chosen ones.
Another example for disbeleiving the Christen claim.
It's people and things in Utah like these that keep the gentiles (anti's) in Utah "persecuting" the chosen ones.
Another example for disbeleiving the Christen claim.
InThePast | 1:26 p.m. April 25, 2008
Maybe there was balance once but not now. The solidarity is partly based on
being a good conservative and partly being a good mormon; unfortunately this has
made Utah into the great Stepford-State.
pburt2006 | 1:26 p.m. April 25, 2008
Vote the bums out, from party leadership through any incumbent over a couple of
terms. Fresh blood may mean more time spent learning the ropes, but it also
means fewer favors owed and less influence from long associations with special
interests and stale politicians.
keepLookin | 1:47 p.m. April 25, 2008
they need to keep investigating the complaints and restore
credibility...otherwise look for the dems to take over.
Caucus System Stinks | 1:52 p.m. April 25, 2008
This caucus system in Utah is the pits. How can so few people decide who we get
to vote for? The system is a joke and so easily manipulated. No wonder it is so
hard to get rid of an incumbent. It is so easy for one ideology to control who
we get to vote for.
Lets change the party rules!
Lets change the party rules!
dear Ron Paul defenders | 2:02 p.m. April 25, 2008
how sweet
but you are right, support for Paul probably is a function of IQ
If Ron is the cure I'd rather have the disease
but you are right, support for Paul probably is a function of IQ
If Ron is the cure I'd rather have the disease
Still the same | 2:09 p.m. April 25, 2008
Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
Same as it ever was.
The Libertarian, Constitution, and yes, even the Democratic Party, welcome former Republicans tired of loyalty being placed above common sense by people more concerned with maintaining their positions than in doing what is right.
Same as it ever was.
The Libertarian, Constitution, and yes, even the Democratic Party, welcome former Republicans tired of loyalty being placed above common sense by people more concerned with maintaining their positions than in doing what is right.
Anonymous | 2:09 p.m. April 25, 2008
Happens all the time? Indeed. And please stop telling this these arer
Republicans-only shenanigans.
Witness North Carolina a few years ago. The Democrats just barely lost control of the state house, 61-59. What did the sitting Democratic speaker do? He literally bribed a recently elected Republican to switch parties, resulting in the Democrats keeping control.
These guys are sleazebags.
Witness North Carolina a few years ago. The Democrats just barely lost control of the state house, 61-59. What did the sitting Democratic speaker do? He literally bribed a recently elected Republican to switch parties, resulting in the Democrats keeping control.
These guys are sleazebags.
Bart | 2:11 p.m. April 25, 2008
This ex-Republican hopes that the Dems DO take over, even on the national level.
The Repubs have become an immoral lot and try to justify their behavior by
using little tidbit words like "liberal", etc. That doesn't work
any more. I'd rather be a commited liberal than a lieing, bigoted,
seemingly conservative, republican. Yyccch!
Willie | 2:19 p.m. April 25, 2008
if I were a Publican, I would feel quite comfortable in a Brown Shirt, hob nail
boots and walk with a striking resemblance to a certain type bird. I would
acknowledge people with a stiff right arm extended outward at a 45 degree angle.
that's interesting, Willie | 2:36 p.m. April 25, 2008
what kind of bird DO you walk like?
MC | 2:42 p.m. April 25, 2008
As a former state and county delegate I have watched Democrats infultrate the
state COP ranks and take over party leadership. The corruption runs deep. The
only "loyalty" is to the teacher's union which buys our elected
representatives cheaply then dictates their actions. Of course they try to block
any outsider from breaking the party (UEA) monoply. You wouldn't want
someone to actually represent the taxPAYERS would you?
Nathanial Ashby | 2:54 p.m. April 25, 2008
I am running as candidate for District 64 as Libertarian for this very reason.
I quit being Republican because of this corruption. We need to oust the
Lockharts and Bramble's immediately.
Nathanial Ashby
Libertarian trying to oust Mrs. Lockhart
Nathanial Ashby
Libertarian trying to oust Mrs. Lockhart
Richard | 3:10 p.m. April 25, 2008
I'm tired of this nonsense. I'm ashamed of my party. I'm going to
become a temporary Democrat until the Republicans can clean this crew out.
Petersen in Utah County will be a great alternative. The man's practically a Republican as it is.
Petersen in Utah County will be a great alternative. The man's practically a Republican as it is.
absolute power | 3:16 p.m. April 25, 2008
Isn't it true that power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely?
However, the message here is not really about Republicans. They are just doing
what politicians do--protect their power. The real message here is for
Utah's Democrats who are so out of the mainstream of Utah culture that they
cannot compete and provide the necessary counterbalance to corruption. Wake up,
Democrats, before it is too late!
3rd parties | 3:34 p.m. April 25, 2008
A third party candidate (Nader, Perot, Paul...) stands little chance of getting
elected. If he wins, then what? Do you have any other third party people in
Congress to activate your agenda?
That said, they DO have a place. They can influence the platforms of the Dems and Repubs if they have any kind of following at all. Vetterli in the book Mormonism, Americanism, and Politics theorizes that Joseph Smith's candidacy was an effort to do just that. And he uses the likes of G. Homer Durham to support his theory.
They may not win, but they do get noticed.
(Party-switchers like Lieberman don't count.)
That said, they DO have a place. They can influence the platforms of the Dems and Repubs if they have any kind of following at all. Vetterli in the book Mormonism, Americanism, and Politics theorizes that Joseph Smith's candidacy was an effort to do just that. And he uses the likes of G. Homer Durham to support his theory.
They may not win, but they do get noticed.
(Party-switchers like Lieberman don't count.)
Draper-Capitol of Dirty Politics | 3:35 p.m. April 25, 2008
At a recent neighborhood caucus meeting in Draper. One caucus goer in an
unnamed precinct attempted to pass a resolution that all delegates would have to
vote for Representative Greg Hughes who is being challenged at the County
Republican Convention by Margaret Bird. A war a words ensued and the resolution
was rightly dropped. Apparently, Mr. Hughes is worried that his days in public
office may be coming to an end as many in Draper flocked to their caucus meeting
to support his republican challenger Margaret Bird. This should be the year to
get rid of the incumbants.
Vaughn & Lynda Robison | 3:49 p.m. April 25, 2008
"...taking their show on the road.." "he'll take up all the
time talking..." "the last thing we need is Nancy Lord..."
And then people wonder why the crooks get into power. Anybody else gets smeared, discredited, arrested, etc. if they stand up to the crooks and point out what they're doing.
BBKing, you were making sense right up to that point. Somehow you're buying into the crooks' mantra.
We've heard all about "Mike R. did something, but don't know what, so it's ok to not like him or what he does." We've heard all about "Nancy Lord tries to run the GOP all by herself."
HAVE ANY OF YOU ACTUALLY LISTENED TO THE CONTENT OF WHAT THESE GOOD PEOPLE ARE SAYING??
When we lived in a certain of Wyoming, we'd see the crooks running the town all week with their blatant criminal behavior, and then they'd be in church on Sunday, pretending to be good Christians. We asked a church leader how that works. He replied, "They have everything compartmentalized. What they do on Sunday, and what they do during the week are two different things. And Heaven help the person who points that out, they get crushed."
And then people wonder why the crooks get into power. Anybody else gets smeared, discredited, arrested, etc. if they stand up to the crooks and point out what they're doing.
BBKing, you were making sense right up to that point. Somehow you're buying into the crooks' mantra.
We've heard all about "Mike R. did something, but don't know what, so it's ok to not like him or what he does." We've heard all about "Nancy Lord tries to run the GOP all by herself."
HAVE ANY OF YOU ACTUALLY LISTENED TO THE CONTENT OF WHAT THESE GOOD PEOPLE ARE SAYING??
When we lived in a certain of Wyoming, we'd see the crooks running the town all week with their blatant criminal behavior, and then they'd be in church on Sunday, pretending to be good Christians. We asked a church leader how that works. He replied, "They have everything compartmentalized. What they do on Sunday, and what they do during the week are two different things. And Heaven help the person who points that out, they get crushed."
MC you're smoking crack | 3:59 p.m. April 25, 2008
You really think Dems have taken over GOP party leadership? Is Lockhart one of
those secret Dems? Who then? What a silly claim. You've got "secret
combinations" on your brain too much, buddy.
Truth | 4:22 p.m. April 25, 2008
Utah politics are like the FLDS church. Driven by brainwashing from the dominant
leaders of our State.
Jack | 4:46 p.m. April 25, 2008
To Draper-Capitol of Dirty Politics : Maybe you can't believe everything
you read in the newspapers, but in addition to what was reported a few weeks
ago, a second source confirmed to me that certain members of party leadership
were very upset when Margaret Bird suggested she would run against Greg Hughes.
They asked her (actually insisted) that she not do so because Greg was their
man. With a few influential legislators calling the shots this certainly
doesn't make for a very representative government. I hope Margaret wins.
Once Again | 5:24 p.m. April 25, 2008
Next election, I refuse to vote for anyone now in office. Politics has become a
nasty, dirty business, and we're better off getting these people out of the
system as quickly as possible. I can't remember when one of these guys
actually represented anything I care about.
Anonymous | 10:43 p.m. April 25, 2008
I don't want to jump to conclusions about what is happening, but the best
thing any individual can do to keep politics fair at the local level is to care
about what happens at the local level. Delegates to the Republican caucus should
take time to look into other candidates.
As for the rest of us: even stauch Republicans would do well to look into Democratic candidate Claralyn Hill. Party lines aren't as hard at the local level and if we want honesty and fairness in Utah politics we have to look for the honest and fair politicians, whichever party they come from.
As soon as we put goodness first in politics, we'll get better politics. As long as party affiliation is the way we vote, we'll see people fight tooth and nail, by any means necessary, for control within the dominant party.
As for the rest of us: even stauch Republicans would do well to look into Democratic candidate Claralyn Hill. Party lines aren't as hard at the local level and if we want honesty and fairness in Utah politics we have to look for the honest and fair politicians, whichever party they come from.
As soon as we put goodness first in politics, we'll get better politics. As long as party affiliation is the way we vote, we'll see people fight tooth and nail, by any means necessary, for control within the dominant party.
saddened by pride | 11:02 p.m. April 25, 2008
It is a shame that the Republican Party has disintegrated to the point of
employing tactics that frustrate the democratic process and disallow
opportunities for open and frank debates on issues. Instead the party has
resorted to making inside deals and maneuvering for power. It is equally
unfortunate that so many people have become so entrenched in their ideological
idiosyncrasies that they refuse to consider outstanding individuals for public
office just because they do not belong to the "right" party. For
instance, Claralyn Hill is running on the Democratic ticket for House District
62 in Northeast Provo because she wants to give the voters a choice instead of
simply allowing a person to take office in an uncontested race. Claralyn is one
of the finest individuals that I know. She has used her time and talent to
advocate for those who cannot act for themselves, she is concerned about her
community and is committed to listening to the people. She does not seek office
for power, prestige or personal gain. There will be no back-room bargaining with
Claralyn!
To all LDS people! | 1:31 p.m. April 26, 2008
We all need to vote out corruption and vote in Ron Paul and others with similar
views. How the typical LDS individual can be content with voting Republican
regardless of what's going on or what the person believes is an insult to
all of us who are LDS. "The constitution will hang by a thread and the
Elders of Israel will be called upon to save it" where are the LDS people
in this? We should be leading the fight for honest leaders who firstly have READ
the constitution and secondly understand it as the inspired document it is; not
candidates who profess to be Mormon and say he would have to consult his lawyers
rather than the Constitution! Also, since when did preemptive war become LDS
theology? We need to get out of watching the propaganda of Fox News and Sean
Hannity and realize what's really going on here, people! Also, for a
religion that believes in free agency as such fundamental part of the purpose of
this life it's amazing how quick we are to want to place restrictions on
those who aren't doing the "right" thing. Sounds strikingly
similar to some pre-mortal plan I've heard of?
Following the Law | 1:33 p.m. April 26, 2008
We have a constitution that everyone evades
They have no idea what it says
One is no law can be made to change it
2
You can not abridge the peoples right to vote
The entire State, Every City in Utah is abridging the Peoples right to vote
Example
Sewers
The Council is in a Federal violation of the Constitution when they vote for the people.
Getting money from the State is Illegal if the people do not vote for it.
Judges up and down the State are Violating peoples rights to a fair trial
No jury trials
Just prosecutions and Criminal Charges
The Cops are Criminals as well
They have no idea what it says
One is no law can be made to change it
2
You can not abridge the peoples right to vote
The entire State, Every City in Utah is abridging the Peoples right to vote
Example
Sewers
The Council is in a Federal violation of the Constitution when they vote for the people.
Getting money from the State is Illegal if the people do not vote for it.
Judges up and down the State are Violating peoples rights to a fair trial
No jury trials
Just prosecutions and Criminal Charges
The Cops are Criminals as well
Secret Combinations | 8:57 p.m. April 26, 2008
The amount of closed doors sessions should be limited to:
'this is when we attack' 'this is where our weapons are' 'this is our weapons research and capabilities as a military to defend ourselves' 'this is what we are placing as our defense'
This should amount to the military planning sessions closed and all others open.
Whether the War is legit or not is NOT a legitimate closed door session. ANY, I will repeat this... ANY financial or business related session is NOT a legitimate closed door session.
Our government LOVES closed sessions and the people should only be allowing FEW of them.
The more secret meetings, the more power is lost. And eventually people will wake up to their awful state. I will have been ready for it because I think we've been in it for a while. So many people don't even acknowledge the possibility of the U.S. having this happen it boggles my mind.
LDS perspective is 'God had reason for the U.S.' (More that good people will inherit this land) But only so long as we are good. It's not a calling-and-election-made-sure.
The Republican Party is as Corrupt as the Democrat. Give up parties. Support principals.
'this is when we attack' 'this is where our weapons are' 'this is our weapons research and capabilities as a military to defend ourselves' 'this is what we are placing as our defense'
This should amount to the military planning sessions closed and all others open.
Whether the War is legit or not is NOT a legitimate closed door session. ANY, I will repeat this... ANY financial or business related session is NOT a legitimate closed door session.
Our government LOVES closed sessions and the people should only be allowing FEW of them.
The more secret meetings, the more power is lost. And eventually people will wake up to their awful state. I will have been ready for it because I think we've been in it for a while. So many people don't even acknowledge the possibility of the U.S. having this happen it boggles my mind.
LDS perspective is 'God had reason for the U.S.' (More that good people will inherit this land) But only so long as we are good. It's not a calling-and-election-made-sure.
The Republican Party is as Corrupt as the Democrat. Give up parties. Support principals.
Caucus | 12:01 p.m. April 27, 2008
Thank you Tad Walch for writing this article. You're a good man to even
cover the issue.
I don't believe the caucus process is stacked against moderates, it's just moderates won't get off their butt's and show up the the caucuses. Most people I talk to don't even understand how the system works. I didn't.
I think the Constitution Party is good in principle, but what it actually does is splits off all the good Republicans into a third party and leaves the corrupt people in power.
How are you going to get your message out when Michael Powell got rid of the equal access laws to the media? It would take people in the Constitution Party going door to door in every precinct to get the message out. The majority of people still probably won't vote Constitution because they're worried a Democrat will get in.
The Republican Party is spending us into an economic collapse--watch iraqforsale.org--and people are going to keep voting Republican. Please stop abandoning the party, and get in there and clean it up. You can't fix it from the outside. How many Constitution Party candidates have won in Utah?
I don't believe the caucus process is stacked against moderates, it's just moderates won't get off their butt's and show up the the caucuses. Most people I talk to don't even understand how the system works. I didn't.
I think the Constitution Party is good in principle, but what it actually does is splits off all the good Republicans into a third party and leaves the corrupt people in power.
How are you going to get your message out when Michael Powell got rid of the equal access laws to the media? It would take people in the Constitution Party going door to door in every precinct to get the message out. The majority of people still probably won't vote Constitution because they're worried a Democrat will get in.
The Republican Party is spending us into an economic collapse--watch iraqforsale.org--and people are going to keep voting Republican. Please stop abandoning the party, and get in there and clean it up. You can't fix it from the outside. How many Constitution Party candidates have won in Utah?
Jade | 12:27 p.m. April 27, 2008
The LDS contingent is exactly why this corruption has festered in the Republican
party! We need many many more NON-LDS candidates!
person | 4:12 p.m. April 28, 2008
well then good then thats what the point ot comment boards are! .... haha
jack | 10:56 a.m. May 6, 2008
Does an automatic delegate have to reside in the legislative district where he
votes? At the Salt Lake County Convention (May 3rd) it seemed there were some
"out-of'town" dignataries that were voting for the candidates in
my district.
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