Deseret News | Reader comments: 4 cities OK UTOPIA refinance; Payson shoots it down

Reader comments
4 cities OK UTOPIA refinance; Payson shoots it down

Long Live Karl Marx! | 5:50 a.m. April 23, 2008

If UTOPIA needs more money, then the state should impose special taxes on Qwest and Comcast and give the revenues to UTOPIA.

samhill | 6:05 a.m. April 23, 2008

I hope they stick with it and succeed. It is vitally important to have a truly high-speed, high-volume Internet infrastructure. Having it developed in municipalities as close as these might be the fostering hand that will enable my city, Sandy, to have the courage to take the same step forward.

Yes, it costs money. Yes, it is tough being a pioneer. Yes, it can and will definitely be of great benefit as it expands and is more fully developed.

Jesse Harris | 6:11 a.m. April 23, 2008

A clarification on Payson's vote: they voted 4-1 to not vote on it last night and will be holding another meeting on May 2 for the final vote. The issue has not yet been decided in that city.

Comments continue below

Anonymous | 7:59 a.m. April 23, 2008

iProvo has failed and Utopia is next. Wait until the bonds come due and the cities start paying out. If fiber optic broadband is so great, why are people dropping service in iProvo? Almost as many that sign up. Why are people not subscribing to Utopia?

It can't be just marketing or the providers. That is a very bad sign that Utopia is doomed no matter what they do.

Come on | 8:51 a.m. April 23, 2008

A frivolous lawsuit by Qwest and the federal RUS shennanigans were significant roadblocks to deployment. The refinance removes those barriers so UTOPIA can finally move ahead. It's a great business decision, although difficult politically because so many people only get a few of the details from the press and from rumors perpetuated by the incumbents and Utah Taxpayers Association. Those who know understand that it is really in the best interest of taxpayers to refi. Any good business board would do the same--not throw in the towel on this project. Kudos to the elected officials who struggled with the decision but did the right thing despite the protests of the myopic and vocal minority. We will look back years from now in gratitude.

veedub | 8:54 a.m. April 23, 2008

In spite of the problems with iProvo (which may kill it in it's present form), and the risks of UTUPIA, I think it's becoming obvious to many community-minded people that access to high-speed internet is becoming as big a need as electricity, natural gas, etc. I'm not sure such government support as these two approaches are right; however, private providers haven't been willing to keep their costs down significantly and given the type of service that many people want, so I can understand why government wants to step in to make sure everyone has access to it.

It may well be that the result will be a government overseen utility similar to electricity, natural gas, and telephone service. Somehow I don't know that is the best plan. Maybe private providers need to become more competitive to keep that from happening. Another option maybe a basic access, free or low-cost product, like non-cable, antenna-based TV for everyone (still faster than modem), and a faster, less restricted product for those who pay for it. Possible? I have no idea. Just a thought.

UTOPIA-schmopia | 9:03 a.m. April 23, 2008

The UTOPIA project invites cities to incur more debt. What is money anymore, though? Heaven forbid any level of government in America today actually make a decision to avoid debt. It's especially easy to take on more debt when all you're doing is taking it from Peter to pay Paul. And for what? Fiber optic cable?!

WVC Resident | 9:10 a.m. April 23, 2008

Thank you to the West Valley City Council for voting to refinance the UTOPIA project. They are definitely looking toward the future and considering the great benefits that this fiber optic network will provide for future generations. Building a fiber infrastructure is no different than building an airport or a road system... I'm sure those who were faced with the decisions to build such projects were weighing similar pros and cons: "What if we build this airport and airplane technology doesn't last?" "What if we build this interstate system and cars become obsolete or don't last?" God bless those who have the foresight to see that being the pioneers of technology may be difficult, but push forward to provide for future generations.

Jason | 9:16 a.m. April 23, 2008

I agree the the installation & marketing of UTOPIA has been far less than ideal, but they are demonstrating that they have learned from their mistakes (like trusting the Federal Government to payout promised RUS funds). I agree that the increased obligation pledging cities are being asked to take on is also less than ideal. However, the alternative is much worse. By voting "NO" city councils are guaranteeing that they will have to start paying out money soon. By agreeing to the re-finance it will help UTOPIA to thrive and to become self-sufficient thus helping to insure that the cities WON'T have to pay nearly as much public funds into this endeavor which will benefit the public (both private citizens and businesses greatly).

UTOPIA is the answer, an open network that encourages healthy competition and enables consumer choice built on a strong network (ie: MPLS fiber to the home) IS the right thing to do.

Perry Resident | 9:34 a.m. April 23, 2008

Without Utopia I will be stuck with dial-up. Just the threat of Utopia lowered rates and increased service in our area. The conduit is already run past my home and the conduit and the fiber past my place of business. As soon as it is available I and my business will sign up. I have been anxiously awaiting this for years. Let's finish what we have started.

KannFour | 9:37 a.m. April 23, 2008

The technology is not at question here. Of course everyone including myself would love to have the benefits of the proposed Utopia system. I have been waiting endlessly for the network to be offered in my neighborhood. I just can't see the justification of further extension of the refinance. The same mentality of if we stop now we surely loose is the the powerful rational of the gamblers that can't walk away from a blackjack table and ultimatley build the magnificeint casinos of Las Vegas. The only positive is that at least some of my represetatives (Rushton, Winder, Burt)are actually looking out for the long term municipal finances of thier constituents.

Luke | 10:16 a.m. April 23, 2008

Utopia is well... Utopia. To those who actually take the time to get the facts. Do your own research and ignore the slanted press. Not only is Utopia what the technology generation wants and needs, but the benefits can / should be / and will be felt by all citizens. It's not just computers and internet anymore. It's communicating, medicine, security, all for less than what it would cost over copper equivalents. Worst case scenario, I'd rather our cities incur debt bringing this technology to it's citizens, with no black holes of service like QWest and Comcast, than be left with what's available, or in some cases NOT Available.

Hey "Come On" | 10:27 a.m. April 23, 2008

You said, "Any good business board would do the same-- not throw in the towel on this project."

But the truth is, no private business would ever have undertaken this project, because based on the projected cash flows alone it is so risky they wouldn't be able to finance it over more than 5-10 years at most. UTOPIA is taking the sales tax dollars that our cities use to pay the bills everyday and encumbering those funds in order to let them finance the project over first 20 and now 32 years.

So "any good business board" would've realized upfront that the costs versus the projected reveunes constituted excessive risk. But you know what? If they had cities willing to throw an unconditional backing behind their project, I bet you would be right- "any good business board" would make the same decision, because they have the potential for upside without the risks. The cities now hold the risk.

iprovo subscriber | 10:38 a.m. April 23, 2008

I was hesitant to go with IProvo after reading about all of the scandals, but it is blazing fast. I've never had internet so fast, far superior to comcast. We had them before and they restrict your bandwidth when downloading, so any downloads are EXTREMELY slow. IProvo may have its problems, but it is so fast it's unbelievable.

Dave | 10:42 a.m. April 23, 2008

I have loved having access to the American Fork City network. It has had an amazing effect on the way that we do everything at home and on our connectedness to the rest of the world. I hope that UTOPIA and iProvo can succeed.

Jesse Harris | 11:06 a.m. April 23, 2008

For those of you not present at one of the city council meetings, UTOPIA is at a point where the RUS won't pay out what they promised resulting in a bunch of dark fiber rings in the RUS cities. Part of the refinancing is to connect those rings and double the reach of the network. Given that the RUS cities are ones with almost no other broadband options, it's widely anticipated that the take rates will be really high, especially since the installation fees will be paid back in service savings within a year or two for an average residence.

Even as a supporter, I was a bit concerned with the refinancing efforts. After last night's presentation, I feel confident that the refinancing will bring the network back on track in the long-term.

DJ | 11:16 a.m. April 23, 2008

I applaud the City Councils that voted in favor of the refinancing because it demonstrates forethought and the desire to move forward the investment and commitments that the UTOPIA cities have already pledged to.

FTTP will enable both businesses and residents to realize the future of telecommuting, real-time video conferencing, education resources, as well the plethora of other techologies that will be realized as bandwidth, network latency, and access becomes available.

As far as Payson City goes, I would encourage the Deseret News to get their facts straight before printing inaccurate data. What ever happened to accurate and objective press?

I urge people to do their own research into the issue rather than blindly listening to propaganda spread by big telecom and the associations they fund.

curious | 12:36 p.m. April 23, 2008

how many of these comments were posted by people who work for either UTOPIA,Comcast or Qwest? All these companies have a lot at stake here and I haven't heard a single compeling argument in either direction. My opinion is to not incur debt for the government. We are a capitolist society if a company has a bad buisness plan and fails let it. That is what made America great, not government bail outs because of bad buisness decisions. If this is truely what the people from a given city want, they will buy the service. If its not then the company will go bankrupt, but to make innocent people pay for others poor decisions is not wise.

Govt-business mix | 12:46 p.m. April 23, 2008

I think it's a good idea for local governments to pool public funds to pioneer projects like this, stadiums for sports teams and don't forget funding Cold Fusion research.

We fall for it every time.

JuniorJR | 1:25 p.m. April 23, 2008

Depending on Government to throw GOOD money after BAD in order to solve our problems is bad public policy. Too bad that West Valley couldn't come up with another vote and join Payson in sending this back to the finance drawing board for more reasonable solutions.

What if? | 1:25 p.m. April 23, 2008

What are we going to do if 10 years down the road we all have free (government provided) wireless everywhere (like Canon is proposing)?

We will still be paying the debt and maintenance of this hard wired network that will obviously go out of business if the government provides "Free" wireless everywhere.

WVC UTOPIA | 1:51 p.m. April 23, 2008

Winder, Rushton, Burt voted to give up on UTOPIA and pay $2.8 million dollars a year for 20 years $40 million) and receive nothing for the investment.

Bill | 2:25 p.m. April 23, 2008

Utopia wouldn't exist if Qwest had done their job. What an opportunity Qwest has missed; but, hey----they seem to miss most now days!

Murray Utopia | 2:33 p.m. April 23, 2008

I am a proud subscriber of Utoptia and MSTAR. The main reason (Besides Location) that I bought my Inverness Square Townhome is because of the FiberOptic internet and Television and Phone. I have seen such compressed pictures on some LCD TV's (High Def Compressed and Direct TV Compressed Shows) I love on my UTOPIA High Def coverage. It is not compressed it is not blurry on my Tele and I love it.
Murray gave Utopia a Chance and we have the best internet availible. I would NEVER go back to my old Quest DSL Line, or My Comcast Cable Nor would I go back to Direct TV. I am Hooked on Utopia and Very happy with my service and product! Again that is why I bought my house wired with the Utopia Lines!

Call me crazy... | 2:42 p.m. April 23, 2008

But I find the prospect of living in a city where Utopia is available to be a huge draw. I will be moving my family and business soon to one of the cities still supporting the project. My wife and I used to always get a chuckle out of an old sign in Tremonton that read, "a city with a future". Perhaps it's time to restore that sign.

WVC Businessman | 2:45 p.m. April 23, 2008

Kudos to Rushton, Winder and Burt for using their wisdom to stop the government backing of Utopia.

Next up will be these member cities requiring residents to subscribe to UTOPIA by adding a new tax to property taxes...like garbage collections. I'm down with the government backing/funding of UTOPIA. (Notice I'm not against Utopia. Last I checked gambling is illegal in Utah. I guess it is ok when tax dollars are used.)

Note: I do not work for Qwest, Comcast, DishNetwork or Utopia. I like Utopia but I don't think the Gov't should be involved in it.

Orem Parent | 3:11 p.m. April 23, 2008

Most of those bashing UTOPIA have never used it. They just look at it as another gov't waste of money. Talk to anyone that has it and they all love it.

My internet is incredibly fast. Phone service is better than I had with Qwest. TV was better with Dish but dish costs a lot more than I am paying now. I expect MSTAR to continue to improve the TV hardware and it will be comparable in the near future.

UTOPIA is the future. If you get a chance to hop on board, I highly recommend it.

Techie | 3:32 p.m. April 23, 2008

When I first heard that Utopia was looking to for more money I knew that cities would jump at the chance for another buy now and pay later. They will all jump to approve this and then go down another doomed business path that requires outrageous connection fees. I certainly know that my city doesn't have any commissioners like those three in West valley willing to take a stand and say enough is enough.

Orem Guy | 3:40 p.m. April 23, 2008

I have Utopia and the speed is fantastic. I feel sorry and even a little bit guilty for these people that live in Utopia cities, yet don't have access to the network. But, still I don't want to end up paying more and more, for more than 30 years through these refinance plans to get them finally connected.

Jesse Harris | 9:26 a.m. April 24, 2008

It's funny how there's always at least one wiseguy who thinks that anyone who takes a side on this issue must work for or otherwise be compensated by that side. Anyone who Googles my name can figure out pretty quickly that my drive on this issue is passion, not payment.

Murray Business | 10:15 a.m. April 24, 2008

I wish I had Utopia service for our business. But the problem with Utopia is that the construction was missed managed. Instead of taking the funds they had and totally building our areas of cities the moneys were spread all over and now they have portion of construction done in all the cities and very little is completed. Therefore the money has been spent and they have ended up with a system that can not support the customers that it was intended to support. Bad strategy.

With all this being said I find it interesting that Qwest and Commcast are attending all the city council meetings. If the cities did not drive Utopia and it technology we would all still be using dial up with Qwest. Utopia has forced Qwest and Commcast to step up to the plate and delivery services to compete in this market. Qwest and Commcast are scrambling to try to delivery similar internet speeds as Utopa at a competitive rate. Their best strategy at this point is to help make Utopa fail so they can catch up.

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