Deseret News | Reader comments: Archaeologists unable to find Pratt's remains

Reader comments
Archaeologists unable to find Pratt's remains

Hope | 2:25 a.m. April 23, 2008

I wonder where he went?

More info... | 5:31 a.m. April 23, 2008

Most of us have never heard this story before. What were the circumstances surrounding Elder Pratt's death? Why did Hector McLean shoot him?

History | 7:26 a.m. April 23, 2008

PPP last wife was the previous wife of Mclean. She left McClean because he was abusive and threatening to her and their children. It escalated when she joined the church. Before she could get away from him while in California, he stole the children and sent them on a ship down around south america and back up to texas to his parents. Once the mother and parley realized what happened, they planned a way to get them back. She being in Utah by this time and married to parley, went to the parents and told them she left the Mormon faith, they believed her and let her have the children back. At this time McClean was still in California. Somehow word got back to him she had the children so he set out after her. Once she had the children she ran away with them and was to meet Parley. They were illegally arrested in Arkansas as kidnappers. McClean caught up with Parley and killed him in cold blood.

Comments continue below

Bill | 7:41 a.m. April 23, 2008

The story of how he died is recounted in several previous DesNews stories over the last week or two.

? | 7:48 a.m. April 23, 2008

Anybody think that maybe he has his body back???

More info | 7:54 a.m. April 23, 2008

He was shot because one of the wives of Pratt divorced Mclean and then married Pratt. It was jealousy.

Nevin Limburg | 8:01 a.m. April 23, 2008

Thank you for this excellent article. As a student and teacher of my Church history for many years, I had wondered about Elder Pratt and what had happened to him. The News' following and reporting on this story was enlightening to me, and I appreciate also the family's efforts to locate his remains. I love singing Parley's hymns in our hymnbook. Long live Parley P. Pratt!

One Problem | 8:41 a.m. April 23, 2008

I wouldn't jump to the resurrection conclusion unless you found the coffin minus a body. So far, they haven't located the coffin and as far as I know, you are resurrected WITHOUT the coffin attached.

Even if you found the empty coffin, there could be several explanations of why it was empty. For example, I could see McClean and/or associates digging up his remains to desecrate them and scatter them. Or as a trophy for McClean's mantle. He was pretty ticked off.

Dick | 9:04 a.m. April 23, 2008

The circumstances above relating to Pratt's death are accurate except I think the woman involved was still married to McClean. They were estranged but not divorced.

Decomposition | 9:10 a.m. April 23, 2008

Shallow grave, warm and moist climate = complete decomposition.

I think he just dissolved. Lot of countries re-cycle grave sites every 5 years and have no problem with corpses. They just turn to dirt.

Bob | 9:42 a.m. April 23, 2008

My family recently exhumed the remains of a family member that died when he was 6 months old and had been buried 60 or so years ago in another state. The baby was buried in a wood coffin. The coffin was almost completely decayed and there were very few remains found, mostly portions of a hip bone. There were no teeth found because he didn't have any yet. Since Parley was buried so long ago, it's likely his coffin was completely decayed. His remains may have been completely decayed as well.

Cal Reader | 9:47 a.m. April 23, 2008

Interesting that people would think Pratt was resurrected when Joseph Smith himself was apparently not resurrected. The reorganized church still have his bones.

Joe Moe | 10:02 a.m. April 23, 2008

For those wondering about the decomposition of a coffin, like I did, I did a little research. A typical coffin of the day, just plain wood, would have decomposed long ago. It's possible his body did too, though less likely (bones in particular). Decomposition actually happens very quickly, in a matter of months or years, when the conditions are right. So here are the options, from simple to astounding, as I see them:

1) They've got the wrong place or someone moved the body/coffin long ago.

2) Both coffin and body decomposed.

3) Body resurrected, coffin decomposed.

Thus is born a new legend/myth: "It has been proven that Parley P. Pratt has been resurrected!"

Let it rest | 10:17 a.m. April 23, 2008

The Parley P. Pratt story needs to be "laid to rest". Most of you writing on this thread know what really happened. Those that don't, don't want to know. Not finding his remains is actually good, now there is no more story and no more discussion of why he was murdered. Best possible outcome.

Mike R. | 10:29 a.m. April 23, 2008

At this point I'd guess that Parley doesn't care where he is buried.

SLC gal | 10:42 a.m. April 23, 2008

His last wish was to be buried in UT. His wife probably knew of this. Anyone want to way on the chance that she exhumed the grave or had someone do it for her and bring his bones back to UT then????

Yes | 11:07 a.m. April 23, 2008

To more info, the article did say a little about why it happened, not full detail.

Option 1: The wood caskets could have decomposed after 151 years as well as the remains.

Option 2: The wood caskets could have decomposed and Parley is resurrected.

Option 3: The wood caskets could have decomposed and Parley was translated.

Option 4: Records where he was buried may not be completely accurate.

To SLC gal. You apparently have not dealt with a dead body and the putrification that takes place. In those days exhuming the grave would most likely not have happened due to the decaying process and the long time it may have taken to get the body back to Utah.

bilbo | 11:16 a.m. April 23, 2008

as an active LDS member, I am confident 1 of two options occurred:
1) Parley P Pratt was buried elsewhere

2) Parley P Pratt decayed after over ONE & ONE HALF centuries of being in his natural element: the earth.

Ashes to ashes...dust to dust.
Stop dwelling on the mythical...it makes you sound far less than mythical.

darcy | 11:37 a.m. April 23, 2008

this is all so embarrasing!

Supporter of digs | 11:58 a.m. April 23, 2008

Perhaps they can dig up some other pioneer bone so we can identify their bones as family? I'd like to witness this. I know for a fact that the English believe in burring their folks today and then digging them up tomorrow...It's a very English and British tradition. It's in my blood to know as well. Parley's family may have dig up the whole cemetery to find him and then do some DNA, on some bones, to find Elder Parley Pratt. I'm supportive of this.

Excavation needed | 1:12 p.m. April 23, 2008

There was once a flood in Southern Utah, back in my great grandfathers day, and all the bodies were washed here and there. In some cases there are only markers on the graves. I enjoy looking and hunting for family graves, but some have literally disappeared. If we could unearth some of those old pioneer bones perhaps we could at least find a nice container and rebury them. After all, they deserve the best for all there struggles while alive. Excavation

in West Virginia | 1:44 p.m. April 23, 2008

PPP is one of those larger-than-life figures from church history. I'm glad we have opportunities to remember him. His descendants are all over the country. My previous stake president was a direct descendant. Its a shame, though, that "closure" to this story proved elusive for now.

GB | 2:59 p.m. April 23, 2008

The news story was a little bit interesting but the comments are HILARIOUS! Where is Oliver Stone when you need him?

Oh Boy | 5:58 p.m. April 23, 2008

PPP was a person of great historical significance in the LDS faith. Let's not desecrate his memory and turn him into the "Mormon Elvis". Soon some of you will start reporting having seen him walking around the Little Rock Wal-Mart in his resurrected body.

Good grief. Enough already!

All gone... | 6:19 p.m. April 23, 2008

Decomposition: I think you are correct.
In Ireland the family plots are just that. Family members are buried in the same plot. They decompose quite rapidly.
I once heard a catholic priest say that as children, he and his siblings, played around the cemetary and would occasionaly find bones working their way up through the soil. They would simply push them back under and continue to play.
He said that is took roughly 6 months for the body to decompose enough to allow a new burial. But if they had a death within the 6-mos period they would dig up the first and bury the two remains together.
I think it gave him a healthy view of death.

Ironic | 6:34 p.m. April 23, 2008

In 1857 a Mormon from Utah is murder in Arkansas just prior to 120 people from Arkansas are murdered by Mormons in Utah. The Utah gravesites are searched by archeologist 8 years ago for weeks without finding any evidence whatsoever of their remains yet the very first shovel from a backhoe operator hit a multitude of well perserved remains. Maybe they would have had a little more success had they hired the same backhoe operator in stead of what was probably the same group of archeologist that failed at Mountain Meadows who, by the way, also came to the same conclusion after their failed search that the remains where most likely completely decomposed.

Ex Mormon | 6:46 p.m. April 23, 2008

You people dont get it at all. He was not ressurected. Those have died will be ressurected when jesus comes again. In Thessolians4:16 and 17 it says "For the Lord himself shall desecend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of a archangel, and with the trump of God and the dead in Christ shall rise first. Then we which are alive and remain shll be caught up in the air: amd shall ever be with the Lord." If you read this the dead has not been ressurected.
The Mormons are very secretive in things. With the fundamentalist they are hiding that mormons dont practice, well maybe not but they are the reason of the fundamentalists. It is still the FLDS of latter day saints. They denied the Mountain Meadow Massacare so why wouldnt they denid anything else they dont want you to know. They have been moved or decomposed.

Sue | 6:55 p.m. April 23, 2008

Several years ago when my dog was in search and rescue training, I met a K9 group (out of California?) that specialized in cadaver recovery from very old remains. I vaguely remember they were used to pinpoint possible burial sites of historical interest. Well-trained canines could be a tool in the search for PPP.

California Mormon | 7:14 p.m. April 23, 2008

What is the big deal? This is not a big story.

Just maybe... | 7:14 p.m. April 23, 2008

Maybe someone doesn't want the body to be found at this time. Perhaps it will turn up later.

Thank you Parley | 7:54 p.m. April 23, 2008

He baptized my 3rd great grandparents in Kirtland. Thank you and rest in peace. I hope to be able to thank you in person someday.

Straight answer | 8:10 p.m. April 23, 2008

To Ex-Mormon--No one really believes this man was
resurrected. I commend you for taking spiritual
matters seriously. How about translated? That
would be the way to go.
Yes--I believe you have the straight answer.
Thanks for the History lesson.
I believe it's time for deep reflection in the USA as it is apparent "that the sins of the fathers are
resting on the heads of the children." CA LDS,
that is why it is a big story!

Thanks Parley | 8:11 p.m. April 23, 2008

He precipitated the Mountain Meadows Massacre against the Arkansas Fancher party. Thank you and may you atone for that. I hope to be able to thank you in person someday.

You are wrong! | 9:03 p.m. April 23, 2008

To: Thanks Parley

Parley P Pratt did not participate in the Mountain Meadow Massacre. Parley P Pratt's murder was part of the paranoia, and from the mobber's back east, and as well threats made and taunting made from the Fancher party while passing through Utah. The Fancher's egged on the whole event! and then got themselves shot and killed by the Mormons and Indians. I am quite tired of hearing that the Pioneer's and Indians of Southern Utah just simply ran out and killed these people for no reason at all. it just didn't happen! There was a reason, and I always heard from family that the FANCHERS were the ones who picked the fight. They also poisoned the water holes. These people are still picking fights today with the Mormon's. It will never seize to end!

Warren G. | 10:09 p.m. April 23, 2008

The character of Parley P. Pratt is very questionable. He married McLean's wife while she was still his wife, then aided and abetted the wife in illegally taking McLean's children away from him through deception. McLean had custody rights at least equal to those of his wife, regardless of the status of their marriage. Pratt also participated in the deception of having a Mormon missionary infiltrate (incognito) into McLean's home as a cook to keep an eye on Mrs. McLean on behalf of the Church. Honesty was not part of Parley's approach to dealing with this McLean situation.

precipitatedparticipate, DA | 10:45 p.m. April 23, 2008

These people where God fearing Christians wanting nothing more than to get to California by way of Utah and to buy the needed supplies from the Mormons, all along the way they where treated with contempt due to Old Brigham wanting to show the U.S. gov. who was in charge. To kill innocent Children, women and men with an ax or gunshot to the back of the head after surrendering then say that they deserved it is like saying the young boy's Arthur Bishop molested and killed deserved it because they where in the wrong place at the wrong time. People like Mr. "You are wrong" are vacuums that still spew forth the lie's & deception propagated by the Murder's them self's and our illustrious leaders. Learn the real truth before you make such an ignoramus comment! And we wonder why the infidels have contempt for us and associate us with the very odd FLDS, being poured from the same inept mold.

rightascension | 10:56 p.m. April 23, 2008

Swell. Resurrected. Certainly inconvenient for a burial memorial.

X -FLDS | 10:58 p.m. April 23, 2008

Polygamists have always stole other mens wives. They even steal them from each other within their own polygamist cults. This is nothing new.

Parly P. Pratt was just a chip off the old Mormon block.

banderson | 11:06 p.m. April 23, 2008

Thanks to PPP for going on a mission to Toronto Canada, where he taught my great grand father, John Taylor.

J W in Ca. | 11:12 p.m. April 23, 2008

Our family tell the story of my Grandmother receiving permission from the mission Pres. of the Southern States Mission 50-60 yr. ago to find the grave site of Parley P. Pratt. My family is from Ark. As they were having problems finding the exact spot, It was suggested that they ask an elderly man who lived nearby. He stated that he knew exactly where Pratt was buried because when he was a small boy himself, he would walk past the grave with his father and his father would spit on the grave every day. Whether this story is true or not I don't know, but Parley P. Pratt has always been one of my personal heroes.

Harding | 12:34 a.m. April 24, 2008

heaven forbid the evil cook might keep Mrs. McLean from getting beaten again. I'd like to hear your take on the bay of pigs.

parley fan | 1:34 a.m. April 24, 2008

so WarrenG, your info comes from where?

Richard | 11:11 a.m. April 24, 2008

He wanted to be buried in Utah?

Utah and Arkansas should just switch their names.

Problem Solved

SFC RET VAN METER | 11:28 a.m. April 24, 2008

You are Wrong: You may be right up to a point. There was wrong on both sides. There was no excuse for killing children and those who were not armed. Yes I am a long time member of the church, 45 years I have been a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Later Day Saints. It is our ancestors that must answer to God for these murders, not us of today. We did not comet these murders so there for we are not accountable to God our anyone ells for the murders. You donï¿½t kill someone because they tant you and condemn you for your beliefs.

Arkansan | 5:52 p.m. May 5, 2008

Don't you think it ironic that the State of Arkansas was cooperative with the descendants of Parley Pratt and allowed a duly sanctioned excavation of his gravesite? Compare that with the hurried change in Utah statutes that removed the bones of Mountain Meadows victims from anthropologists who were studying the remains to determine the cause of death. Gov. Levitt responded to requests from church officials to prevent a complete study. Descendants of the massacre victims did not want the bones of their ancestors to be in the custody of BYU. The coverup related to the massacre of innocent men, women and children continues, even though the LDS is beginning to take ownership of the role their members played in this terrible event.

LDS leadership has recently admitted that there was no provocation for the attack on the Arkansas wagon train; the rumors were circulated after the tragedy to provide justification for the cold-blooded murder of over 120 people. Even though LDS members are counseled to read only faith promoting literature, be mature enough in your religion to use unbiased historical sources. If your faith cannot stand up to legitimate questions, I doubt its legitimacy.

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