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Texas judge asks LDS Church to monitor FLDS prayer times
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Anonymous | 12:00 p.m. April 21, 2008
I believe Guantanamo has room for a 'children's residential
facility'.. have they considered that option?
Anonymous | 12:17 p.m. April 21, 2008
Is this the United States Of America? Scary!
Comments continue below
Can't wait | 12:16 p.m. April 21, 2008
I can't wait to see the results of the DNA testing. When compared to the
detailed records the FLDS kept I think we'll been for a shock at what was
going on there.
I got a chuckle out of the FLDS men on TV today who basically said they didn't know sex with minors was illegal.
I got a chuckle out of the FLDS men on TV today who basically said they didn't know sex with minors was illegal.
I understand the reason | 12:21 p.m. April 21, 2008
Although cumbersome. I can understand their reason for wanting to positively
identify the parentage of these children for a couple of.
1) out of over 400 kids, mostly girls, I can imagine that dozens share common names ie, Rebekah, Sarah, Mary, Rachel. And so many claim same mothers. If the state wants to do their best to REUNITE the children with their mothers, they must know WHO the mother really is to each child.
2) To prove underage sex abuse. Hypothetically speaking, Say there are 11 "sister wives" who are married to the same man. These wives are ranging in age from 49 to 19. And amongst them, there are 36 children of all ages who claim that all 11 mothers are simply "mother". However, the DNA test can prove beyond any doubt that (for example) the 7 year old child is actually the child of the youngest 19 year old mother. Thereby proving she was pregnant when she was 14. This will also prove who the daddy is...in other words....who needs to be charged with statutory rape.
Just my thoughts.
1) out of over 400 kids, mostly girls, I can imagine that dozens share common names ie, Rebekah, Sarah, Mary, Rachel. And so many claim same mothers. If the state wants to do their best to REUNITE the children with their mothers, they must know WHO the mother really is to each child.
2) To prove underage sex abuse. Hypothetically speaking, Say there are 11 "sister wives" who are married to the same man. These wives are ranging in age from 49 to 19. And amongst them, there are 36 children of all ages who claim that all 11 mothers are simply "mother". However, the DNA test can prove beyond any doubt that (for example) the 7 year old child is actually the child of the youngest 19 year old mother. Thereby proving she was pregnant when she was 14. This will also prove who the daddy is...in other words....who needs to be charged with statutory rape.
Just my thoughts.
Don't feel sorry for the FLDS | 12:24 p.m. April 21, 2008
They brought this all upon themselves.
If they lived within the laws(not hiding behind freedom of religion) and shunned the outside world, none of this would have happened. Gee, being secretive? Sounds like you have something to hide. Seems like the polygamists who live in regular society do just fine.
I have no problem with someone practicing polygamy(as long as they are consenting adults and can pay for it).
Most of these kids aren't even documented with SS cards or birth certificates. We don't even know who their real parents are. They could be in Canada, Utah, or Arizona.
These girls have no choices in life. They don't even know their options, really. They are told to "keep sweet", obey their master, or face the concequences.
This cult needs to be done away with. I hope most of you have read up on this cult, it will open your eyes.
If they lived within the laws(not hiding behind freedom of religion) and shunned the outside world, none of this would have happened. Gee, being secretive? Sounds like you have something to hide. Seems like the polygamists who live in regular society do just fine.
I have no problem with someone practicing polygamy(as long as they are consenting adults and can pay for it).
Most of these kids aren't even documented with SS cards or birth certificates. We don't even know who their real parents are. They could be in Canada, Utah, or Arizona.
These girls have no choices in life. They don't even know their options, really. They are told to "keep sweet", obey their master, or face the concequences.
This cult needs to be done away with. I hope most of you have read up on this cult, it will open your eyes.
Do it Right | 12:25 p.m. April 21, 2008
I can only hope that Texas did their homework on this and all of this will hold
up in court.
Since no one in this group will give a straight answer DNA testing needs to be done.
As the women give interviews they will betray themsleves for what they really are. Letting your child be married at 14 and letting the leaders kick the boys out to reduce the competition is not heaven on earth as one woman proclaimed there compound to be.
Fences and manned towers is a description of a prison not heaven on earth.
Since no one in this group will give a straight answer DNA testing needs to be done.
As the women give interviews they will betray themsleves for what they really are. Letting your child be married at 14 and letting the leaders kick the boys out to reduce the competition is not heaven on earth as one woman proclaimed there compound to be.
Fences and manned towers is a description of a prison not heaven on earth.
Anonymous | 12:33 p.m. April 21, 2008
It's also important to understand just how abusive their culture really is,
both physically and emotionally. Read "Escape," by Carolyn Jessop. She
managed to escape from the FLDS with all eight of her children, but only after
enduring years of incredible abuse. It's extremely interesting to get a
real look at what is going on before crying out that the Texas authorities are
out of line. I support their efforts to help women and children escape from this
vicious cycle of abuse.
John Lambert | 12:51 p.m. April 21, 2008
There are other people out there who were part of the FLDS and decided to
leave and hold the view that "Escape" is just a bunch of hog wash. I
don't know who is right. I do know just because it is in print does not
mean it is true.
j. | 1:05 p.m. April 21, 2008
So, when they all end up being related to each other, what are they going to do?
How do you sepeparate them into family groups when they're all related?
They're one enormous, incestuous, polygamous, pedophile-condoning,
brainwashed family, all carrying the same DNA. What a mess.
Anonymous | 1:06 p.m. April 21, 2008
Yes, this is the United States of America. What is scary about it? I assume
you mean that the government is scary? Well, All the details of this case are
not out in the public. People that jump to say that the government is wrong for
investigating abuse and neglect are not as smart as they think they are. The
very last thing the State of Texas, the Courts, CPS workers want to do is take
children into custody. There is more here than meets the eye. Keep you stupid
comments to yourself until you know the truth. The truth may surprise you. I
bet you thought Jim Jones would never hurt his children either. Didn't you?
All the state is trying to do is keep these children safe. If there is nothing
to this, then the children will go back. Why don't you wait until you know
the truth. (whatever that may be) I promise you that the safety of the children
will come before anything else. PS: It is never right to abuse a child in the
name of God. Abuse is not always a black, blue or red mark. Sometimes it hits
the heart or the spirit.
DNA parentage? | 1:05 p.m. April 21, 2008
I may be missing something, but I thought parentage can only be determined if
you have the DNA samples from the parents, too. I think parents are given the
chance to come forward and get tested, but I suspect that many of these kids
will not have both parents tested when this is over. Perhaps they can link
siblings among the 416. Is it the plan that kids whose parents are not
identified through this process will become wards of the state permanently? Has
the judge disclosed a plan, or is she just investigating for the sake of future
discovery?
ac | 1:23 p.m. April 21, 2008
I live in Texas and know several people who are working to help the childern. To
those who think the call was a hoax you should do a bit of research when law
enfrocement went to the ranch to find the girl who made the calls they were
alowed to talk to a handfull of girls all of whom said they knew the girl who
made the calls THEY KNEW HER but hadn't seen her in a few days. The
original plan was to find the girl who made the call, once they saw abuse with
their own eyes they went to the judge seeking to remove the children. Honestly
get the facts straight, if you are going to make accusations, it is the least
you can do so that YOU don't look like a fool.
DM | 1:30 p.m. April 21, 2008
The Texas CPS doesn't have a very good record as it relates to the safety
and well being of children. Nevermind the fact that even state officials have
admitted that most of the kids taken show no signs of any sort of abuse. I doubt
the state will be able to make a case that whatever abuse occurred was on the
scale to justify removing every child from the community, and yet they push to
throw all these kids into their deficient foster system.
I don't know the FLDS, so I cannot say whether abuse is a part of their culture or not. But I know of no community in the world where there is not at least some abuse by a few. But they need to make the case in court.
As for Caroline Jessop, I don't know her or the FLDS to be calling anyone a liar, but always consider that she wrote a book and sold it to make money. Being reclusive as the FLDS are leads to people being able to make any claims they want uncontested about them.
I don't know the FLDS, so I cannot say whether abuse is a part of their culture or not. But I know of no community in the world where there is not at least some abuse by a few. But they need to make the case in court.
As for Caroline Jessop, I don't know her or the FLDS to be calling anyone a liar, but always consider that she wrote a book and sold it to make money. Being reclusive as the FLDS are leads to people being able to make any claims they want uncontested about them.
G | 1:25 p.m. April 21, 2008
"Well, All the details of this case are not out in the public."
Why on Earth is it not? The public hearing was last week. That government apparently can take children away without full explanation is disturbing. If CPS has evidence they should place it in full view of the public. If they don't they should end this farce now. They remember where the compound is, load the buses up and send the kids home.
Why on Earth is it not? The public hearing was last week. That government apparently can take children away without full explanation is disturbing. If CPS has evidence they should place it in full view of the public. If they don't they should end this farce now. They remember where the compound is, load the buses up and send the kids home.
Anonymous | 1:29 p.m. April 21, 2008
I will also follow this with interest to see exactly what the DNA testing will
reveal.
For one thing, I suspect it will indicate one big genetic soup of interbreeding. For another, the reports of 6yos removed from their parents in other polygamous compounds and placed on the YfZ won't have their parents providing samples. Then there are the Canadians whose parents are beyond legal jurisdiction.
I can see that this is a necessary step but I doubt it will be a very conclusive one.
Meanwhile, will they add harboring illegal aliens to the list of laws that were shattered by the people of the YfZ?
For one thing, I suspect it will indicate one big genetic soup of interbreeding. For another, the reports of 6yos removed from their parents in other polygamous compounds and placed on the YfZ won't have their parents providing samples. Then there are the Canadians whose parents are beyond legal jurisdiction.
I can see that this is a necessary step but I doubt it will be a very conclusive one.
Meanwhile, will they add harboring illegal aliens to the list of laws that were shattered by the people of the YfZ?
re:anonymous + Lambert | 1:37 p.m. April 21, 2008
One of Carolyn Jessop's children return to be with the FLDS after having
been away for a long time. I think we might be too easy to jump to conclusions.
You wouldn't want someone who has left your religion educating others on
what the religion is like. Of course you'll hear horror stories.
Jennifer | 1:31 p.m. April 21, 2008
My goodness, wont most of these kids be related since some families are mixed
and cousins marry cousins etc etc. How are they going to 100% find out who these
children belong to? What will happen to them once the DNA tests come back? Will
the mothers get the children back? Will the men go to jail for sex with a minor?
Or insest? Whats next here? These kids belong with their families. Maybe th
fathers should be prosecuted, hello... they didnt know sex with a minor was
illigal? sadly they may not have known. Most of them didnt even know who the
President of the USA was. We need to do what we can to help these people, they
are humans. who cares what they believe in, who the worship. They are fellow
humans and Americans, and these kids and women need our help, not judgements!
can you imagine how they are feeling not being with their moms? Newborn babies,
up to age 18. Those kids are stolen from their mothers arms. That is sick and
wrong
kg | 1:46 p.m. April 21, 2008
I'm not a member of this group or from Texas. From the outside looking in,
something is terribly wrong. It seems to me that the State of Texas removed all
of these children based on much hearsay,some boldfaced lies and little solid
proof.
I'm appalled at the cruel and judgmental attitudes of so many. Again I say that much of what you accuse them of isn't based on proof, but on vicious hearsay.
Can someone tell me why nursing babies should be taken? No abuse has been proven. Are they really at risk of being brainwashed or married during the next few months? Or is it a greater risk that irrepairable harm that will be done to them by taking them from their mothers at this point?
I want to know the truth before passing judgment.
It's all just so wrong. I'm praying that someone will step forward and help these children in the way that is really best for them.
I'm appalled at the cruel and judgmental attitudes of so many. Again I say that much of what you accuse them of isn't based on proof, but on vicious hearsay.
Can someone tell me why nursing babies should be taken? No abuse has been proven. Are they really at risk of being brainwashed or married during the next few months? Or is it a greater risk that irrepairable harm that will be done to them by taking them from their mothers at this point?
I want to know the truth before passing judgment.
It's all just so wrong. I'm praying that someone will step forward and help these children in the way that is really best for them.
DNA will not help | 1:49 p.m. April 21, 2008
DNA testing is not going to help in this case. The gene pool of that group is so
tightly woven together that they will not be able to tell siblings from cousins.
Identifying parents is also going to be problematic for the same reason. This is
good news for the DNA labs because the Texas checkbook is open and they will be
able to get a significant windfall profit from this debacle.
to ac | 1:49 p.m. April 21, 2008
You know what worries me, that this was not a hoax and that this girl could have
been beaten or even killed, don't put it past this group.
I also wanted to say something about a post that some men didn't know it was illegal, that may very well be true. These people are cut off from society and do not know the laws, they only know what has been put in their head for generations. I think that the only people who are aware are the ones who have the internet and TV and such, and that is probably the few leaders.
Another thing, these people have sadly gotten themselves in this mess because they refused to say what child belonged to whom, now they are having to resort to DNA. I don't know if there is a way to determine age with people, but I am sure there are some obvious factors. But kudo's to all those who have been helping, this is not easy on any of them.
I also wanted to say something about a post that some men didn't know it was illegal, that may very well be true. These people are cut off from society and do not know the laws, they only know what has been put in their head for generations. I think that the only people who are aware are the ones who have the internet and TV and such, and that is probably the few leaders.
Another thing, these people have sadly gotten themselves in this mess because they refused to say what child belonged to whom, now they are having to resort to DNA. I don't know if there is a way to determine age with people, but I am sure there are some obvious factors. But kudo's to all those who have been helping, this is not easy on any of them.
Healthcare Issues | 1:58 p.m. April 21, 2008
I tried to email the Texas CPS office but it is not working (wonder why...) to
show from a healthcare stance for children who are separated from a mother who
are nursing. They did not show any evidence the babies are in immediate risk in
the interm period before the next hearing and separtion will be VERY
traumatic--physcially and emotionally and can cause bonding issues. Don't
argue that "well they are going to get married and raped young so we must
pull them from the breast." I am looking at the IMMEDIATE welfare of the
child.. CPS can worry about the future and that is not a healthcare issue.
Don't go off on sterilization arguments either..that reaks of Nazi Germany.
If you are like minded, call Tx CPS and email/call all the Tx Reps to set up a
safety net plan with CPS monitoring and supervision rather than sudden
separation.
nottyou | 2:00 p.m. April 21, 2008
Innocent until proven guilty in a court of law? Isn't it wonderful to have
a dream?!
ello | 2:15 p.m. April 21, 2008
If abuse is happening then we need to stop this compound at all cost. Weeks away
from family can be hard, but a lifetime of abuse and being submissive to power
is devastating.
Child abuse is not something that you take lightly.
Child abuse is not something that you take lightly.
Sugar Momma | 2:16 p.m. April 21, 2008
Thank Heavens they are fighting to keep the nursing mothers with their babies.
I hope the judge sees reason in that, for the babies' sake.
But watching the mothers in interviews is HORRIFYING. They're sheep! They are so limited in their expressions and their responsiveness to questions. I'm sure they weren't born as simpletons, but that's what this megolomaniac, fearful society has turned them into. Get them out of there, and keep the kids out of there before more end up like that, I say.
The more I hear them speak, the more convinced I am that Texas needs to take them in as well under the umbrella of special needs adults, and try to find ways to help them finish maturing.
I think this will all sort out well in the end. I'm hoping. And by well, I mean that kids are reunited with their mothers who are willing to live outside of the influence of Warren Jeffs and his lackeys.
But watching the mothers in interviews is HORRIFYING. They're sheep! They are so limited in their expressions and their responsiveness to questions. I'm sure they weren't born as simpletons, but that's what this megolomaniac, fearful society has turned them into. Get them out of there, and keep the kids out of there before more end up like that, I say.
The more I hear them speak, the more convinced I am that Texas needs to take them in as well under the umbrella of special needs adults, and try to find ways to help them finish maturing.
I think this will all sort out well in the end. I'm hoping. And by well, I mean that kids are reunited with their mothers who are willing to live outside of the influence of Warren Jeffs and his lackeys.
Nathan E. Rasmussen | 2:24 p.m. April 21, 2008
CBSnews cites an "expert" saying DNA could prove incest. Wrong. DNA
proves inbreeding (a biological fact), not incest (a legal one).
Suppose Alice and Carol are sisters, and Bob and Dave are brothers. Alice marries Bob and has a daughter Ellen; Carol marries Dave and has a son Francis. This is all legal. Then Ellen and Francis marry and have Glenn, and then Texas tests their DNA.
Genetically, Ellen and Francis are like siblings, and the test (correctly) shows Glenn is inbred. But legally they are first cousins (a legal marriage in Texas and other states). DNA proves that they mated unwisely, but it can't prove they mated illegally, and they didn't. (Shall we maybe prosecute them for what we WISH the law was, Comrade Stalin?)
This is just an example, but in reality it's easy to end up with inbreeding, via more and longer lines, when you have a partly closed community with few founders (like the FLDS, or like most of the pre-industrial world). You don't even need first-cousin marriages to do it.
The DNA will show a lot of relatedness among those kids. Hope the judge gets some REAL experts to interpret that. It won't be easy.
Suppose Alice and Carol are sisters, and Bob and Dave are brothers. Alice marries Bob and has a daughter Ellen; Carol marries Dave and has a son Francis. This is all legal. Then Ellen and Francis marry and have Glenn, and then Texas tests their DNA.
Genetically, Ellen and Francis are like siblings, and the test (correctly) shows Glenn is inbred. But legally they are first cousins (a legal marriage in Texas and other states). DNA proves that they mated unwisely, but it can't prove they mated illegally, and they didn't. (Shall we maybe prosecute them for what we WISH the law was, Comrade Stalin?)
This is just an example, but in reality it's easy to end up with inbreeding, via more and longer lines, when you have a partly closed community with few founders (like the FLDS, or like most of the pre-industrial world). You don't even need first-cousin marriages to do it.
The DNA will show a lot of relatedness among those kids. Hope the judge gets some REAL experts to interpret that. It won't be easy.
Anonymous | 2:35 p.m. April 21, 2008
these people cant possibly beunaware that polygamy is against the law. And how
about all those Warren Jeffs pictures on all the walls? They blindly follow a
man sentenced to prison for forcing marriage with underage children. Sad sad sad
LIlathe | 2:37 p.m. April 21, 2008
"In yet another FLDS raid-related development, coordinating attorneys,
legal aid attorneys and guardians ad litem announced an undisclosed number of
20-30 young women whose adult status had been debated had indeed been determined
to be legally adults. "
Many of these girls are the "ALLEGED" underaged girls that were pregnant or had children. Some of them had drivers licenses, birth certificates, and income tax returns to prove they were over 18 but Comrade Meisner and Comrade Voss looked deep into their eyes and called them liars and said their documents might be fake.
These ADULTS (though CPS had them in custody as children) were refused access to private attorneys and had to have pro-bono attorneys selected by the courts (again no offense to wonderful attorneys that volunteer their time)
But just how LEGAL is refusing private legal counsel to an adult?
How LEGAL is it to keep the women in the CPS compound away from their attorneys? No phone calls allowed, no visits allowed.
Many of these girls are the "ALLEGED" underaged girls that were pregnant or had children. Some of them had drivers licenses, birth certificates, and income tax returns to prove they were over 18 but Comrade Meisner and Comrade Voss looked deep into their eyes and called them liars and said their documents might be fake.
These ADULTS (though CPS had them in custody as children) were refused access to private attorneys and had to have pro-bono attorneys selected by the courts (again no offense to wonderful attorneys that volunteer their time)
But just how LEGAL is refusing private legal counsel to an adult?
How LEGAL is it to keep the women in the CPS compound away from their attorneys? No phone calls allowed, no visits allowed.
Lilathe | 2:48 p.m. April 21, 2008
Think about it.
So far the original Sarah has proved to be a hoax, even though CPS ALLEGED that children said they "knew" her.
The temple bed marriage consumation has proved to be a lie
CPS accused women of lying about their ages. Another proven lie
CPS accused one woman in their court affidavit of "looking at her husband" and lying about her age. Proven lie.
CPS accused the FLDS of not having crayons. Proven lie.
CPS has accused the women and children of "deliberately confusing them" I say that CPS personel are just "easily confused". That is an allegation and most likely not even true.
So far the original Sarah has proved to be a hoax, even though CPS ALLEGED that children said they "knew" her.
The temple bed marriage consumation has proved to be a lie
CPS accused women of lying about their ages. Another proven lie
CPS accused one woman in their court affidavit of "looking at her husband" and lying about her age. Proven lie.
CPS accused the FLDS of not having crayons. Proven lie.
CPS has accused the women and children of "deliberately confusing them" I say that CPS personel are just "easily confused". That is an allegation and most likely not even true.
Mike K. B. | 2:51 p.m. April 21, 2008
I cannot believe the same old whack-jobs are still doing these argue blogs. You
people are the funniest bunch I have ever laid eyes upon. I check back on D.News
every few days, and yep! the same old blubbered group are back on here, and
saying the same darn thing over, and over again, time after time. Do you folks
ever wind down?
My opinion; I DO NOT BELIEVE IN POLYGAMY WHATSOEVER! FLDS, RLDS, FLDS,nor LSD. I also don't believe much of anything many of you supporters are spouting off on here. Adultery, abuse, and slavery are vile in the sight of God. REPENT!
My opinion; I DO NOT BELIEVE IN POLYGAMY WHATSOEVER! FLDS, RLDS, FLDS,nor LSD. I also don't believe much of anything many of you supporters are spouting off on here. Adultery, abuse, and slavery are vile in the sight of God. REPENT!
Concerned | 2:54 p.m. April 21, 2008
If these children end up in foster care, What is to become of them when they
come of age? will they be accepted back into their complex? will they be out on
the street? Has anyone thought that far ahead?
Karen | 3:06 p.m. April 21, 2008
Re Lllathe,
This goes to show us that these FLDS are nothing but liars! How can anyone claim to be a follower of Christ when their whole religion is based on lies, deception and theft from the government. This is not in anyway religious, saintly nor godly. What commandments do these people keep?
This goes to show us that these FLDS are nothing but liars! How can anyone claim to be a follower of Christ when their whole religion is based on lies, deception and theft from the government. This is not in anyway religious, saintly nor godly. What commandments do these people keep?
To: LIlathe | 3:28 p.m. April 21, 2008
I think perhaps you've been misinformed. The attorneys are visiting with
their clients. Just a comment: Everyone seems to be making Texas, and
everyone in it, the "bad guy". Don't you think that the
officers who went to that compound would have been very happy to find NOTHING
wrong, and they could have said good-bye and driven away? We're not mean
people in Texas. We care about the children. For some reason the FLDS and
the LDS have an "us against them" way of thinking. It doesn't
have to be that way, and it shouldn't be that way.
Re: LIlathe & Adults | 3:38 p.m. April 21, 2008
And how do "know" that the documents weren't forged or
weren't actually someone else's documents? How do you "know"
that the girls who were already mothers or who were pregnant, weren't
forced into a marriage and impregnated while they were still underage?
What are you so afraid of? If any of what you say is true, it will all get sorted out in the courts eventually. In the meantime, the children have a right to be protected from possible further abuse.
People who are criticising Texas authorities for making snap decisions based only on allegations need to take a look in the mirror and admit that they are doing exactly the same thing, with far less real information to rely on.
What are you so afraid of? If any of what you say is true, it will all get sorted out in the courts eventually. In the meantime, the children have a right to be protected from possible further abuse.
People who are criticising Texas authorities for making snap decisions based only on allegations need to take a look in the mirror and admit that they are doing exactly the same thing, with far less real information to rely on.
Podesta | 3:44 p.m. April 21, 2008
Apparently, the FLDS supporters on this thread have done little reasearch. Women
do not drive, pay taxes or work off the compound. It is doubtful they have
typical proofs of age and identity. The DNA tests will offer some insight.
Addressing the news article | 3:38 p.m. April 21, 2008
Whatever my opinions may be about polygamy (against it) or the FLDS group
(don't agree with them), their ouster of young boys (wrong in any family),
young teenage girls being married to much older men, (wrong) etc., the article
was about the upcoming forced removal of nursing mothers from babies.
This is just plain wrong, and potentially harmful to the babies, and painful for a mother abruptly forced to cease nursing. Some provisions could easily be made to arrange for mothers to be able to feed and cuddle their babies.
This is just plain wrong, and potentially harmful to the babies, and painful for a mother abruptly forced to cease nursing. Some provisions could easily be made to arrange for mothers to be able to feed and cuddle their babies.
Proven Lies | 3:45 p.m. April 21, 2008
Sounds like you don't want Texas to investigate because they might discover
the truth. What lies are you trying to cover up?
To: I know the reason | 3:42 p.m. April 21, 2008
She would have been 12 not 14. If the mother is 19 and the daughter is 7.
Still...it's against the law no matter how you came to your figure.
Re: Lilith | 3:43 p.m. April 21, 2008
Proven lies? Where you getting your information?
To: Mike K.B. | 3:51 p.m. April 21, 2008
Isn't it great to live in a free country and be able to voice your opinion
without others (yourself) putting people down or calling them names?
If it bothers you so, why do you bother to add your rude comments. Let people alone. Post, but be kind
If it bothers you so, why do you bother to add your rude comments. Let people alone. Post, but be kind
Melly | 3:56 p.m. April 21, 2008
Mike K.B.:
You seemed to be just as worked up as everyone else on here.
You seemed to be just as worked up as everyone else on here.
Lilathe | 3:59 p.m. April 21, 2008
I think if polygamy was just made legal, the secrecy of the ranch wouldn't
be necessary in the first place.
Do any of you truly care what goes on in anyone elses home as long as it is consenting adults?
I don't.
We legalized gayiety... why not polygamy?
It used to be illegal for two different races to marry. We legalized racity why not polygamy?
Some laws are just stupid and polygamy being against the law is the same as sodomy or inter-racial marriage being against the law.
Do any of you truly care what goes on in anyone elses home as long as it is consenting adults?
I don't.
We legalized gayiety... why not polygamy?
It used to be illegal for two different races to marry. We legalized racity why not polygamy?
Some laws are just stupid and polygamy being against the law is the same as sodomy or inter-racial marriage being against the law.
Anonymous | 4:06 p.m. April 21, 2008
Karen- The FLDS didn't lie about any of that. Those are lies told against
them by others.
Anonymous | 4:26 p.m. April 21, 2008
WHERE ARE THE FATHERS?
WHERE ARE THE PATRIARCHS?
WHERE ARE THEY?
WHERE ARE THE PATRIARCHS?
WHERE ARE THEY?
Dee | 4:28 p.m. April 21, 2008
The whole FLDS cult is based on nothing but lies.
Yes this is America | 4:31 p.m. April 21, 2008
but when you start crossing too many genes, you get to interview some of the
guys who were on tv this morning...duh , i thought it was legal to mary 12-14
girls..heck my cousins have been doing it for years and now i'm 50 years
old ..well it just seemed down right natural..forget that we threw one of the
Jeffs boys outside of town to narrow the gene pool down...he made it just fine.
See we got organization cause we got no game with the women folk as they are the
only game in town. We is pure as the driven snow through the streets of
chicago...no minorities to mess up our blood..cause i can look at my cuz and his
cuz and say "cuz" ..the world outside needs to adjust to us cuz we is
waiting for the end of the world to start and we just might have to move to
alaska now cuz we ain't wanted down here.
leroy | 4:25 p.m. April 21, 2008
Crank up the DNA machine. Let's sort this out.
Consider This | 4:25 p.m. April 21, 2008
There are different kinds of abuse. When true historical facts are kept from
children--is that not a form of abuse? I read that they were told there were no
dinosaurs and men didn't land on the moon. Also, that some of the children
thought that Warren Jeffs was President of the United States.
But what really bothered me was a line of questioning from Friday. When asked if the women and children were abused at the ranch, a wife said "No." But when asked to state what abuse was in her mind, she said "I don't know." Are these women confused by obedience and abuse?
I think one of the worst abuses the women and children have suffered is that their agency has been taken from them. Brent Jeffs, one of the Lost Boys who was sexually abused by his Uncle Warren says obedience was drilled into them every day.
Some of the stories we hear about what has gone on in their society are mind-boggling and people can criticize us for believing what Carolyn Jessop wrote in her book or other sources, but the people who condone what has been going on aren't talking.
But what really bothered me was a line of questioning from Friday. When asked if the women and children were abused at the ranch, a wife said "No." But when asked to state what abuse was in her mind, she said "I don't know." Are these women confused by obedience and abuse?
I think one of the worst abuses the women and children have suffered is that their agency has been taken from them. Brent Jeffs, one of the Lost Boys who was sexually abused by his Uncle Warren says obedience was drilled into them every day.
Some of the stories we hear about what has gone on in their society are mind-boggling and people can criticize us for believing what Carolyn Jessop wrote in her book or other sources, but the people who condone what has been going on aren't talking.
To Nathan Rasmussen | 4:39 p.m. April 21, 2008
Fortunately DNA actually looks nothing like what you have presented. While DNA
will show strong similarities among those related, they will not look
identical.
My brother married my husband's sister and they have two children. My husband and I have three children. Our children have different mtDNA from that of my brother's children and our son's have different Y chromosomes from one another. There are also a whole array of other testing that separates the information further, but a typical paternity profile will cover "daddy."
What will be interesting is if the woman's "husband" is not the father of the child and the woman's children were moved across state lines. Warren Jeffs allegedly moved wives to men that were more faithful to him from other husband's not perceived as faithful. This caused a great rift between himself and Winston Blackmore, a leader in Bountiful Utah of another offshoot of the FLDS.
My brother married my husband's sister and they have two children. My husband and I have three children. Our children have different mtDNA from that of my brother's children and our son's have different Y chromosomes from one another. There are also a whole array of other testing that separates the information further, but a typical paternity profile will cover "daddy."
What will be interesting is if the woman's "husband" is not the father of the child and the woman's children were moved across state lines. Warren Jeffs allegedly moved wives to men that were more faithful to him from other husband's not perceived as faithful. This caused a great rift between himself and Winston Blackmore, a leader in Bountiful Utah of another offshoot of the FLDS.
Smelly & Stinky | 4:39 p.m. April 21, 2008
I'm not certain people are really believing all the lies that are being
printed on here. However, I have known some FLDS and done business with some of
them, and I know for a fact that they lie through their teeth. So I believe, I
can say, "YES" they do lie.
--Ned
--Ned
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Texas State Troopers run the gate of the San Angelo Coliseum where security is extremely tight. Authorities have begun collecting DNA samples from children taken from the Fundamentalist LDS Church's YFZ Ranch.
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Yet, elsewhere I have seen written indications that there is good reason to believe the call was a hoax.