Deseret News | Reader comments: Draper rezones school lands

Reader comments
Draper rezones school lands

Ed Advocate | 11:47 a.m. April 20, 2008

The city council did the right thing. The Jordan school district should not be in the business of selling property to raise money to build schools - we all pay property taxes for that very purpose. Draper is fully built-out, once the land is gone there will never be more available for schools when we need them in the future. What is wrong with the education bureaucrats?

Parent for Public Schools | 12:56 p.m. April 20, 2008

The timing of this proposal was suspicious. The city council should have waited until the asset division team had split the assets and the school district split was complete. Jordan District has no plans to sell that land and if they do, Draper City would have gotten first right of refusal anyway. There was no reason for the re-zone. Ed-Advocate should be upset as this move devalued land that he/she bought with his/her education tax dollars. Draper City has an obvious beef with the Jordan School District. Led by Representative Greg Hughes, they want to privitize education and this just sets the stage for it.

Anonymous | 6:14 p.m. April 20, 2008

The council did this so they could buy the now de-valued land at a discount for their charter high school that Troy Walker (council member) and Greg Hughes both want. Incidentally, both men are on the board at Summit, a charter school in Draper. This was not done with the interests of ALL Draper school children at heart; only those who like charter schools (run by housewives and men like Hughes who isn't educated) will benefit from this vote. Draper is a community that is full of those who stupidly believe that these charter schools are "world-class" and are giving their kids a better education. Ten years from now we'll see these kids at the same mediocre colleges their parents went to, doing the same meaningless work. The rest of the country (and SL valley) supports their public schools; Draper has too many pretentious people who think their charter schools are superior - Hughes and Walker are just two of these pretentious, yet mediocre, people. Unfortunately for Draper residents, their special interests run the community.

Comments continue below

Anonymous | 9:37 p.m. April 20, 2008

If one of the top ten schools in the state is connected, even if it is a Charter School, it is a good thing. This ensures Draper will eventually get a High School, albeit one that focuses only on academics.

I also think Draper was wise in this move. If they left the land as is, JSD wouldn't have sold it, but the new district that seems hard pressed for start up funds would.

Draper Parent for JSD | 7:14 a.m. April 21, 2008

Anonymous:
Have you been at any of the meetings regarding this rezoning? The remaining school board members for the East side have all committed that they would not sell this land. Plans were on the table to build a middle school in Draper. I think all the pro-charter school people involved are spreading a bunch of mis-leading information about what JSD was planning to to with this land. There are not and were not plans to sell the land. There were plans for a middle school but some draper city council were not happy with those plans because they wanted a charter high school (they already have a charter middle school).

Anonymous | 10:30 a.m. April 21, 2008

If Summit Academy is touting itself as a "top-ten" school," then the entire state of Utah is in deep trouble and no Utah child will ever compete against anyone outside this state. With unaccredited teachers, a math curriculum used by home-schoolers, and non-academicians running the school, who knows what goes on behind closed doors on test day? Cheating, anyone?

Land grab | 12:59 p.m. April 21, 2008

This move to rezone is nothing but a land grab. Look at Troy Walker's very words. He told the other newspaper he knew of a way to buy JSD land "on the cheap." Talk about a conflict. He is not only a Draper City Councilman but also sits on the Summit Academy Charter School Board along with his buddy Rep. Greg Hughes. They aren't trying to protect the property for Draper citizens. They want it for themselves!

Pop Quiz | 2:50 p.m. April 21, 2008

Questions:

1. Who owned the land prior to the action by the Draper city council?
2. Who owns it now?
3. What was the intended use of the land when it was purchased?
4. What is the land zoned for now?
5. Who can force the district to sell the land?
6. What should the district do with the land?
7. Why did the JSD oppose the rezone unless they plan to sell the land?
8. Who made a very strong statement to the existing and new districts about how Draper would like to see the land used (for schools)?

Answers:
1. Jordan School District.
2. Jordan School District. (Land grab?)
3. Either land banking or schools. Let's go with schools.
4. Schools.
5. No one.
6. Build schools.
7. I don't have an answer for this one.
8. The Draper City Council (no thanks to Mayor Smith or Jeff Stenquist)

Pop Quiz Answer to #7 | 4:18 p.m. April 21, 2008

Jordan District opposed the rezone for a lot of reasons. Mainly because they are in the middle of asset division related to the school district split. This rezone could potentially have a detrimental affect on east/west asset division. The Draper City Council has continually tried to undermine the efforts of JSD to build a middle school. This rezone ties the hands of the new (yet to be elected school board) and denies our new school district a right to get up and running before decisions are made. Draper City Council for the most part supported the school district split, they should continue to support it by seeing it through to its conclusion before taking matters into their own hands in order to get a city run charter school that Representative Greg Hughes and Troy Walker both badly want.

Parent | 4:59 p.m. April 21, 2008

Anonymous | 10:30 a.m. Apr. 21, 2008

Nothing you said is truthful.

Summit Academy has educators who are college-trained and currently certified by the State. They also test at the top of the state CRTs because of how rigorous the academics are.

The Principals have education backgrounds as well. The new Elementary Principal served in the same capacity in Arizona, and the Secondary Principal was a teacher herself. I would think that qualifies them as academic.

Saxon Math is more than just a home-school math program. It is a top-notch nationally recognized program that teaches all the foundational skills of math. I think Summit and APA's math scores attest to how good the program is.

The only cheating that goes on at Summit is that they can't build enough classrooms for the demand. In a sense, that cheats those who want their children at the school from having the opportunity to do so.

Thank You City Council | 5:18 p.m. April 21, 2008

Designating a property owned by a school district as land that can only be built as a school seems like a smart thing to do. It ensures Draper won't have the property swapped for a property outside of the city so someone else gets a school instead.

Draper itself should be a district. In time it will be as the population is booming. We want our kids to have schools, and I am afraid with our neighbors in Sandy and Midvale we won't see schools unless we preserve the land that should be built on.

Anonymous | 9:26 p.m. April 21, 2008

to parent,

We'll all see how "rigorous" Summit is when all of its students are valedictorians, salutatorians, National Merit Scholars, etc. in a few years. I know there are teachers who aren't certified and Saxon Math is not used by the nation's top school districts. How would you know what goes on in the classroom during tests? These kids are not any better educated than any others. They will be just like their mediocre parents. IQ is genetic. Same goes for APA. The principals may have education backgrounds, but the people hiring them have no education background and therefore don't have the necessary knowledge to know who is well-qualified and who isn't.

Let's hope the new school district understands that Draper is full of people who support traditional public schools, not charters run by housewives. Then they can build the traditional public schools that are needed for "world-class" education.

Parent | 9:57 p.m. April 21, 2008

To anonymous,

Go ahead and name the actual teachers. Each classroom has a teacher and an assistant. The teachers are certified because that is what is required by the state. Granted most graduated from BYU instead of Utah State...but they are certified.

Obviously you don't care about Charters and I do. So do quite a bunch of people in Draper. But one point on your IQ theory is that the kids and parents have to actually care to actually use their IQs and if they aren't challenged enough a higher IQ is wasted. That is why Charters perform so well--they care at a higher rate. So even if Charters have a pretty high number of special ed. kids that would not be mainstreamed in your District schools, Charters that are well run like APA and Summit will run circles around District schools in State level and national performance.

Anonymous | 10:42 a.m. April 22, 2008

To Parent,

I will not name the teachers as I do not want to hurt them. The "assistants" are moms who get a little training and a paycheck. In other schools, these people are volunteers.

Traditional public schools have challenged students for generations and the best universities are full of students from these schools. Draper charter school kids will never "run circles" around anyone on a national level, just as their parents never have. Charter schools have a very provincial outlook, which is fine if that's what the parents want. Sticking your kid in a uniform so you can pretend he's at Waterford, and having the housewives who run the school (and all the other parents who aren't college educated) tell you how great the school is, doens't mean you care more. It just means you're easily duped. It's your arrogant attitude that makes those of us who support the professional educators and traditional public schools need to respond to your untrue claims. Like I said, we'll see how many kids from Summit or APA become National Merit Finalists or anything else that will distinguish them as "superior" to students who attend traditional public schools.

parent | 12:02 p.m. April 22, 2008

You won't be able to name teachers that are not licensed by the State working at Summit because they do not exist. Teacher assistants do not need to be licenced but still undergo background checks.

Most women in education are housewives in addition to their educational duties, so your comments apply to nearly all women in education regardless of where they teach. While I agree we need more men in education, that is not happening so we must look to women to lead in the education of our youth.

I wouldn't be surprised if uniforms come up in the new school district. When done appropriately they are great and help the kids to feel part of a team much like those sports and cheer uniforms our kids are so anxious to don.

We are already seeing the results in the academic fields with Utah Charter schools with State testing results and fairs. In time we'll see results in higher education as well, but not exclusively because of Charters. There aren't effective Charter High schools yet, and schools like Alta, Bingham and Jordan do a solid job as it is that I wouldn't enroll my kids in a HS Charter.

Parent | 12:14 p.m. April 22, 2008

One more item so you aren't the one duped anymore.

It seems you have been misinformed on the subject despite all the material contrary. Charter schools are public schools. They have similar requirements to Districts and most operate independently of one another. That means they are governed by the state, take the same tests as all public schools (giving comparision data), and are free to the public.

Key differences are academic focus and entering a lottery instead of a more open enrollment. It is that academic focus that make Charters a choice in public education apart from my local school.

Another parent | 1:54 p.m. April 22, 2008

This is no joke. A Summit student came up to me one day and proudly rattled off the names of several U.S. Presidents. I then asked the student "OK what is a President's job?" Silence. Then I asked "Do you know what the three branches of Government are?" The response: "Ummmm...my teacher didn't tell me that." I then asked "Do you know why you learned the names of these Presidents?" The student gave me a blank stare and walked off.

No joke.

Facts without context may generate high test scores but does such an approach lead to children who truly understand their world?

Add your comment

Comments are monitored. Any comments found to be abusive, offensive, off-topic, misrepresentative, more than 200 words or containing URLs will not be posted.

Words Remaining

E-mail address: For internal use only. We may want to contact you to publish your comment (not your e-mail address) in the newspaper or for a separate story idea.