Reader comments
Attorneys representing FLDS looking for custody changes, visitation

Quote: "We don't trust the judicial system... We trust in God..."

And that's what arrested terrorists suspects tell the U.S. as well.

Thanks to seperation of church and state, religious laws of any kind have no power within our borders. Just talk to arrested terrorist suspects. They will say they want their cases judged under Islamic law. Well, guess what? Islamic law doesn't apply because it is religious law.

I believe that God is forcing the FLDS to learn to "give to Caesar what is Caesar's". If I were them, I would learn this lesson quickly. Part of the reason they are in this mess is because they are arrogant. These people have thought they were above the law because they are in a "special" religion. It's too bad they had to pay a high price to learn this lesson.

Society has no choice but to hold the children. If some of the kids have been abused, then by law our society has to protect the others in the situation.

My hat is off to the guts and logic of the Texas system. Beats what Utah does.

There is something that concerns me about all of this. These children were brought up so differently from other children that the CPS have dealt with. You can't just toss them in any foster care without causing even more harm to these frightened kids. Are they sure they have the best interest of these kids in mind? All of this worries me.

Worldnetdaily is reporting that the "phantom caller Sarah" is a hoax and the perp is being questioned in Colorado.

I wonder how/if this will effect the legal circus going on in Texas.

I haven't met anyone in favor of 14-year-olds being impregnated by older men. But when are the Texas Rangers going to raid the Dallas inner-city homes of pregnant 14-year-olds and cart off the other children, who might be subject to similar abuse? And when will they shutter the Planned Parenthood locations which refuse to report statutory rape of 14-year-olds by men in their twenties? Why isn't there equal treatment under Texas' law?

"...the majority of children taken during a raid on an FLDS ranch showed no signs of physical or sexual abuse..."

There you have it. Case closed, give them back to their parents. Arrest the CPS workers and disbar the judge.

You can't hold children solely based on your own assertion that they might possibly become abused or abusers in 10-12 years. This story just gets more and more absurd.

This Ms Voss obviously has a problem with men. She seems to be intimidated and terrified by the presence of men. Did she expect to find only women present? How does she handle exposure to men in the rest of her life??
If she would go to the local high school she would most assuredly find a higher percentage of pregnant teen agers then were present at the compound. Using her reasoning, the school should be closed because in the future there may be more pregnant girls there.

It's beginning to break down, the possible false caller may have been found, the real reasons for the kidnapping of children are based on the imagined fears of a hostile agent with excessive power.
The power of these agents is really scary when you think about it.They can do mostly anything they want under the disguise of law.

Can we concentrate on the investigation of REAL abuse. There is no shortage of actual abuse to prosecute.

juvenile-family court should be abolished for the farce it is.
Move the whole thing to district court.
If an actual crime has been committed then persons involved should be arrested and prosecuted.
But move it to real court where allegations have to be proved. And where the accused have the benefit of rights given to them by our consitituion
The problem with CPS is that they hide behind innuendo and maybes.

KSR said�
> Thanks to seperation (sic) of church and state,
> religious laws of any kind have no power within
> our borders.

Huh? What part of the US Constitution says anything about separation of church and state and the voiding of religious laws? KSR, like most Americans, needs to go back to third-grade civics.

I remind all the posters who harped about the 5 women who chose to go to the shelter. Turns out they were promised that was the way to get theit children back faster, and when they learned they were duped, they returned to the compound.

The desperation of CPS to reverse-engineer a removal case is obvious, shocking, and undwinding.

How is it possible, for example, given what CPS has said about this religious compound, that only "at least five" children under 18 are pregnant or have children. If we assume 200 of the 416 kids are girls, how in the world do we have only 5? Forget the issue about where (jusrisdiction wise) the under 18's became pregnant, forget the fact that the 16 and 17 year olds are above the age of consent, forget the fact that CPS has failed to give us a number of these 5 that are, or appear, to be under 16. Shouldn't there be more if what they allege about a "widespread", "pervasive" practice is true? And the CPS argument, applied to the boys, is absolutely nuts. Apply it defendants arested for drug possession, high school dropouts, faith healers, etc. Is this really America?

russ said:
> Society has no choice but to hold the children.
> If some of the kids have been abused, then by law
> our society has to protect the others in the
> situation.

By society do you mean government? Because it was government agents -- not society -- that raided the FLDS compound. They kidnapped 416 children with absolutely no evidence that any of them had ever been harmed (as you said, "*If* some of the kids had been abused"). Just how powerful do you want your society (government) to be? Powerful enough to take your own children or grandchildren based on nothing more than a crank phone call? In my opinion, there are a lot of government agents (including at least one judge) in Texas that should be in jail tonight for abusing their power. No, I'm not FLDS nor do I support or empathize with their beliefs regarding polygamy or child marriage.

In response to KSR, the reason for seperation of church and state in this country is for the protection of the church FROM the state.

If any children show signs of abuse, pursue that case.

I'm amazed that the CPS worker was so frightened by unamred, plain-clothed FLDS men, when the dogs on her leash had machine guns and black ski masks. Maybe she was frightened because her notepad, where she could write and draw anything her imagination conjured was being counteracted with video cameras belonging to the FLDS members?

If you are ever falsely accused of child abuse, your biggest defensive weapon is a voice recorder and a video camera. Too bad the government agents nabbed as much of the FLDS evidence as they could. It'll probably get "lost" somewhere.

This story is better than anything Hollywood can think up. I predict there will be some bombshells dropped before it's all over.

How scared and in danger could she feel with all those tanks and armed officers around to back her up? It is clear that, in her mind, there was danger to the children because she was paranoid, not because there was any real danger. They still have not produced evidence of even one girl who was 14 and pregnant. The age now stated in court of pregnant girls has risen from 13 to 17-18 years old. To me it looks like religious bigatry so far.

Based on many response posted about this who very sad event I now understand why such abuse of women, young girls and boys has been tolerated in Utah and Arizona for over 100 years. Same on you all!

Hey KSR, I hope you are next in line to "give to Caesar what is Caesar's," and by this, of course, I mean YOUR KIDS. That is what you are saying.

Wow, they are the arrogant ones? From your self-righteous "I can't stand to condemn just one group at a time I have to throw in others I hate who aren't even involved" tone I would say you might need to look in the mirror, mister.

I lived in Colorado City my entire life. I decided that life just wasn't for me, so I took my 3 kids and left. No "escaping" my family respected my wishes and helped me move to the neighboring town of St.George. These women who claim they had to RUN and ESCAPE is LUDICROUS!! Also the idea of abuse among this people is ludicrous. These "poor picked on" women need to get a life. They are just trying to sell their story. I had a wonderful life there at the "crik" would'nt change it for the world. I grew up with 2 mothers and 25 siblings. 17 of which are still living there and loving it. My mother was adamant about us getting a good education. I have 3 nurses,1 school teacher, 1 engineer, 2 fire fighter/peramedics,1 massage ther.2 dental asst. 1medical asst. and 3 EMT siblings. I GREW UP WITH THESE PEOPLE IN TEXAS AND THEY ARE NOT ABUSIVE PEOPLE! I SEE THEM ON TV FIGHTING FOR THEIR RIGHTS AND IT BREAKS MY HEART WHATS BEING DONE TO THE INNOCENT CHILDREN! IF YOU HAVE A BEEF WITH THE MEN, TAKE THEM AWAY AND LEAVE THE INNOCENT!!!!!

So if some CPS 'expert' determines that even though most children did not show any signs of abuse they were still at risk and therefore that justifies giving the State of Texas permanent custody? Then they have the audacity to say this isn't about their religion but only about sexual abuse. If this raid gets thrown out as being unconstitutional (which appears more and more likely) then the stuff that was taken will likely be tossed as well and there will be no case. Just a lot of distressed kids, parents, lawyers, and one Judge who should have been very cautious about the original orders and warrants.

Like Waco, a tragedy will occur before this is over. Like Waco, the authorities will wish they had done it differently. Like Waco, there will be innocent victims of government abuse of power. Like Waco, those who fail to learn from history are doomed to a repeat.