Deseret News | Foreclosure future grim for Utahns

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Foreclosure future grim for Utahns

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Thomas | 8:50 a.m. April 17, 2008

It's not Greenspan's fault. As people have already pointed out here, our own greed (read "House Flippers") got us into this mess and has caused the problem. In creating artificial demand by buying multiple homes with minimum down, the inevitable price ceiling was hit and people stopped buying. Those who did buy before the ceiling was reached now have a home that is worth less than their loan balance and will have to live with the result. And the flippers stuck with multiple homes will lose everything they gambled for. The same thing happened in 1929 with the stock market. Greed will always get you in the end.

My $.02 | 8:51 a.m. April 17, 2008

It's all about personal responsibility and people's increasing desire to not take any.

Too much credit card debt - file for bankruptcy and make it the bank's problem. Too much house - default and make it the lender's problem. Bad mortgage - cry and make it the federal government's problem. If you make dumb decisions, you need to face the consequences. How is anyone supposed to learn from their mistake if they are bailed out every time they make one? Political leaders spending time trying to figure out ways to spare these people the pain from the problems they've created themselves seems futile. The best service they could provide is staying out of the way, letting the situation unfold and focusing on controls that could be put in place to keep this from happening again.

orion | 8:52 a.m. April 17, 2008

For the last half dozen years or so, I have been wondering how people could afford the monster houses going up along the Wellsvilles and across the east side of Cache Valley.

I now have my answer: They can't.

Comments continue below

This is Funny! | 8:58 a.m. April 17, 2008

The Government, Alan Greenspan & the Federal Reserve (which, by the way, is not a Government entity) has caused more problems than it has fixed ... and now we have irresponsible people, running around trying to blame anyone, but themselves, for their problems.
The Government will cause more problems by trying to fix it & we will loose more freedoms & elected politicians will get bigger "We are smarter than you!" egos!
"Those who have caused the problems are the last ones to look for to solve the problems!"
Government needs to get out of the way & let those who "win" - win, & those who "loose" - loose. Quit trying to punish those who "win" by taking it away & redistributing it to those who "loose".
Cutting up a 1st place trophy & giving it to all participants does not make everyone a winner, it just makes more participants that don't want to put out a full effort anymore, since they will be getting a piece of 1st place.

AIMHO

Anonymous | 8:54 a.m. April 17, 2008

Sooner or later people return to basics.
(The smarter ones anyway)

Less is more will come to be known as the only way.
(for those paying attention)

Then people will once again embrace each other regardless of religious affiliation.

Matt | 9:10 a.m. April 17, 2008

The most frightening posts on this story are the ones that say government oversight is the answer to this problem. What we are seeing is capitalism at work--borrowers and lenders made bad decisions, and it's time for those who made poor decisions to suffer the consequences. Further government oversight will only hamper growth. Allow the market correction to occu and the market will weather the recession and grow again. Increase government oversight and the market will suffer long-term.

Wednesday's Child | 9:17 a.m. April 17, 2008

A home foreclosure in most instances is the sole responsibility of the borrower. When I purchased my home, I signed the papers, I had a chance to review them, I understood how my mortgage worked, what the payments would be. Lenders offered products that consumers wanted and some consumers burned themselves by taking them. Everyone who gets a mortgage is an adult and should take PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY for how they handle their finances. This is not government (i.e. the taxpapers) responsibilty. I didn't overextend myself on my mortgage and I should not have my taxes go towards cleaning up another's messed up mortgage.

To Anonymous | 6:30 a.m. | 9:21 a.m. April 17, 2008

Maybe he was, maybe not. With a 60+ percent rate of "extremely obedient" red-lettered sheep in this state, it's hard to tell sarcasm from mind-numbed obedience.

Roland Kayser | 9:29 a.m. April 17, 2008

We will bail out the bilionaires who profited from the securitization of mortgaes. We won't bail out the homeowners, that would be socialism.

MC | 9:26 a.m. April 17, 2008

What the press doesn't report is that the banks are causing much of the problem. They have received hundrends of $Billions in low interest Fed loans; but they are sitting on the money and refusing to fund loans. They are waiting for interest to rise at which time they will make a fortune on the spread. How do I know? We are builders. We don't have a single sub prime loan yet many of our clients face foreclosure because banks won't' fund completion loans. Ask any realtor you know. They'll tell you that loans over $400K sit un-funded even though the Fed has funneled $Billions into the banking system.

lost in DC | 9:35 a.m. April 17, 2008

There has been little to no regulation of mortgage brokers, they are outside the state and federal bank regulations. Many are crooked, most (hopefully) are not. Hopefully, meaningful regulation of mortgage brokers will come out of this mess, but nothing else. Some people are fools, most (hopefully) are not. That being said, NO BAILOUTS!!

Dave | 9:31 a.m. April 17, 2008

Real Wealth you would have to sell your wheat to triple your money and then what? Wheat is not an investment but if it makes you feel good so be it.

For those of you who are saving your money I hope you are saving it in a non-US currency because if you are saving it in US dollars its value is falling faster then RE values.

Read some books people it is never as simple as you think it is and so far there is no time travel so no one knows what will happen in the future.

Re: Holding Out | 9:43 a.m. April 17, 2008

While Utah housing prices haven't hit a bottom, home prices in the West are a mixed bag of complications. I agree that Utah will be hit further by price depreciation but not as bad as areas that have experienced extremely high house appreciation in recent years such as California and Nevada (The higher you go, the harder you fall). Utah housing appreciation was more modest (with the exception of St. George), so depreciation won't be as severe. Secondly, there are other forces that will pressure house prices upwards. They are high inflation and high energy prices. Construction costs are not getting any cheaper, so once the financial mess abates, I expect a return to modest price appreciations along the Wasatch front. Another source of higher housing appreciation in the West and particularly Utah is the lack of private land. Most of Utah's land is federally owned, which makes the limited amount of land available for homes along the Wasatch quite scarce. They are not making any more land. However, Holding Out is smart to wait, but he/she might hold out for so long, that the bottom of the market could come and go before realized.

Sam | 9:41 a.m. April 17, 2008

I agree with HOLDING OUT!! Not cruel. Just stating what a dumb thing greedy people got themselves into, not reading and understanding the playing rules. I am glad to see housing take a hit, and come back down to reasonable levels. Now if folks will just learn from what is going on and not repeat it in the future. Ya Right!!!!

Jack Swanson | 9:55 a.m. April 17, 2008

"This report is a joke"...you're the joke, this market is blowing up like everyplace else but worse...when you comebine low incomes with the biggest houses in the country it spells disaster...you're the joke pal....deal with reality...AND YES....FORECLOSURES do count as comps.

scandia partners | 9:57 a.m. April 17, 2008

UH...yes, your property can drop to where it was 5 yrs ago...it can happen real easy...because it was overpriced when you bought it 5 years ago...look at Shillers chart...we can easily go back to the mean.

jewel | 10:03 a.m. April 17, 2008

If we think it will happen

Wow... | 10:07 a.m. April 17, 2008

I am totally agreeing 'holding out'. And yes, things will be fine if left alone. Lowering interest rates further only delays the inevitable.

To those that think it is impossible for house values to plummet SO far, you need to look at the rest of the country.

And whoever said it was Alan Greenspans fault is...well, not very smart. First off, before he stepped down from office (that's right he is no longer in charge of the federal reserve), he spoke quite a bit about the housing bubble. He warned everyone that it would burst. Not his fault that most of the country didn't listen.

Oh and both the lender and the borrower are to blame. The lender because they lent out too much money to people who don't realistically have the means to pay it back. The borrower because they didn't do the math and realize that they were overextending themselves.

Who's to blame? | 10:11 a.m. April 17, 2008

Is it the consumer who purchased more house then they could afford or is it the mortgage companies who pumped the ARM loans and told the consumer that they could refi in a couple of years when the value of the home would allow them to get a better long term rate or is it the banks who allowed the consumer to borrow money on stated income with nothing down and bundled those loans together and sold them off to pension and hedge funds?

Observer | 10:13 a.m. April 17, 2008

America is a capitalistic nation. It's survival of the fittest, aka the greedy. That's how it is. If you can't compete, get out of the way. There is no time for compassion, sympathy, understanding, or helping. There's only time for getting what I want, when I want it, how I want it........right now. It's all about me, me, me. No genuine spirituality.....just the kind you see selling on TV......religions selling themselves through TV ads and TV preachers. Religious greed to get more converts to get more money and power. A nation who's laws, politics, and policies are bought and paid for by big business. That's what America has become. A superficial, greedy, arrogant, belligerant nation with no soul. It's disgusting.

Lesson to be learned | 10:24 a.m. April 17, 2008

There's a lesson to be learned in all of this. Teach it to your children:

When I was newly married and in college, my wife and I lived in a one-room apartment (not one bedroom, one ROOM) for $200 a month. After we graduated we looked forward to buying our first home. We decided to wait until we had enough money to put 50% down.

It took us two years - we were making almost $100k at the time. Do you know how hard it is to voluntarily stay in that situation when you're making that kind of money? Several times we asked ourselves "what are we doing here?"

But we stuck with it, bought our house, and thanks to our patience and sacrifice we're in a great situation today.

Teach your kids that a little sacrifice now will pay huge dividends later. And teach them to be patient - you can't have everything you want right away.

Stewart | 10:24 a.m. April 17, 2008

Home prices in Utah have not yet dropped a significant amount. I suggest that anyone that has a "subprime mortgage" refinance now. Oh, you say they don't have any equity in the house since it was financed at a 100%? In that case the owner is no different than a renter and has nothing to lose financially speaking, and will be be much like the renter who doesn't pay the rent. Why should the taxpayers have to pay for their gambling loses? And that is exactly what this is.

High home prices hurt us all | 10:29 a.m. April 17, 2008

Over priced homes hurt everyone - the market needs to drop. If my home goes up in price it is paper money unless I sell. Meanwhile my property taxes go sky high - just ask the folks in Davis County and Ogden Valley. Plus now my kids have to pay more for a home. Do the math - My home goes up say $100K, now each of my kids has to also pay $100 K more so... in the end as a family we are much worse off. I would rather keep my home priced reasonably than see the consequences with property taxes and my children being unable to afford a home.

they'll never say it | 10:37 a.m. April 17, 2008

You are never going to hear any governmental person say, "It looks like the economy is going down the drain. If I were you, I'd start saving my money."

If they did, there would be a run on the banks like you and I have never seen before.

Monsterhomes Monster Debt | 10:38 a.m. April 17, 2008

Utah leads the nation in supersized homes. First and second time home buyers think they have to go for the 6,000 square foot dream house. The monster homes are fake like the people. The primary facade gives the illusion of a manor or estate with ornate brick and stone work, banding around the windows, shutters on the windows, beautiful wood front doors, with a professionally landscaped front yard. The his and hers SUV's in the driveway. The secondary facades are one of three colors of tan stucco used in the subdivision with no architectural interest at all. the tiny windows look randomly placed on the spacious plain walls. The landscape has one tree and one bush and the patio set is white plastic from wal-mart. What ever happened to kids sharing a room; I am college educated and have a good job. I live in a 1947, 200 square foot home I can afford and am paying my fast offerings to help pay Barbie and Kens mortage when they going crying to bishop that they will lose their vinyl castle on the westside of town.

Don't blame me | 10:39 a.m. April 17, 2008

You can thank the neocons for the mess we're in.

I didn't vote for them.

The administration we have today doesn't give a (blank) about you and me.

Earl | 10:41 a.m. April 17, 2008

To Anonymous 7:57: this is not a phenomenon of capitalism. This is totally a result of government intervention in the market. IF the Federal Reserve (I know, I know, it's not a government agency, but it's empowered by the government) had not inflated the market with fiat dollars, IF Congress had not given artificial incentives to home buyers, IF regulators had not allowed the creation of sub-prime financing, etc., etc., the "greedy capitalists" wouldn't have had the tools to manipulate the market into this catastrophe. You're never going to rid the world of greed, but you can keep them from tools to ply their trade.

Earl | 10:52 a.m. April 17, 2008

Matt 9:10 is right. We should allow the market to set itself right soon rather than postponing the inevitable for later. If we don't make that choice now, it will be made for us later.

Earl | 11:04 a.m. April 17, 2008

Yes, greed and recklessness on the part of buyers are the ultimate causes of the meltdown. But none of this would have been possible were it not for the existence of the Federal Reserve and the concept of fiat money, along with the dangerous practice of fractional banking.

John | 11:07 a.m. April 17, 2008

First, the consumers are at fault for making bad decisions and getting loans that clearly in the long term they could not afford.

Second, you can not absolve banks and mortagage companies from responsiblity because they made lots of money offering loans that they were well aware were ticking time bombs should the economy change. They wanted to make money with no regard for longterm issues.

Third, we do need to allow the market to adjust. Homeowners will suffer and sometimes a lesson learned the hard way is the best way not to repeat it in the future. If they are bailed out then nothing will be learned.

Fourth, banks and mortgage companies should now be forced into more regulation since they have shown they can't regulate themselves since making money is more important than helping people make good decisions.

Denver Reader | 11:19 a.m. April 17, 2008

Greenspan may not be directly responsible, but the huge inflow of money (via reduced rates and increases in the money supply) has led to a cheap dollar (low interest rates) -- Greenspan has some responsibility to this huge fiasco (and more importantly, the horrible position of the dollar worldwide).

People getting into houses they can't afford and lenders not doing due diligence on the borrowers are also culpable in this mess. The markets really need to sort themselves out w/o gov't intervention. The more gov't gets involved, the longer it will take for any correction to run its course. SLC and surrounding areas were slow on the uptick and will be behind on the downside, but I believe it is coming. Denver has already started its slide. The coastal areas are even in worse situation (except San Diego, which has started to see a bottoming in the housing plunge). Not sure how far it will go, but it will fall more.

BTW, as noted, the Fed is not a gov't institution. It's a privately held central bank. There is some gov't oversight, but no direct gov't control. Seems a bit extra-constitutional to me.

Tough Luck | 11:19 a.m. April 17, 2008

That's 1 out of 25 homeowners... who have bought homes extending back over a period of 40 years! That minimalizes the statistic a a ridiculously silly level and doesn't convey the actual gravity of the pending crisis.

Now, take the last 10 years of mortgages done in Utah, with a Lion's share being sub-prime, and not add the mortgages done the prior years and we get a more accurate reading of the situation.

Taking that approach and we can assume that the figure is more like 1 out of 4 or 5 of the last 10 years mortgages being foreclosed on. That's a disaster of huge proportions!

While the borrowers themselves will carry the brunt of the crisis, being blamed for overextending themselves, let's remember that the banks and mortgage lenders also could have said, "Sorry, but the home you're attempting to buy is actually out of your long-term debt-to-income ratio." The banks/mortgage lenders are equally responsible because they turned a traditionally conservative segment of the economy into a highly speculative 'paper wealth' driven market scheme, when it should have stayed a 'collateral' driven endeavor.

Yes! The lending institutions should take a hit/fall as hurtful as the borrowers are taking!

Get it paid for folks... | 11:22 a.m. April 17, 2008

Houses are to live in. Homeowners need to pay their mortages off, period. Only then does the house become a home. Only then does the house become a real asset. The present generation seems to have forgotten about that and many will end up having to start over the right way. Pay off your mortgages folks or your retirement will be tough.

America: Land of Hope | 11:27 a.m. April 17, 2008

I hope the bank doesn't foreclose on my house.

I hope I can somehow pay off the crushing burden of my student loans someday.

I hope my job doesn't get shipped overseas.

I hope I don't get stop-lossed again.

I hope the war is over by the time my son is grown.

I hope I don't lose my health insurance.

I hope reckless investment bankers haven't destroyed our entire economy.

I hope I can afford to heat my home next winter.

I hope we can make it through the next seven months of the Bush Administration.

magnus | 11:35 a.m. April 17, 2008

I think there is a fine line here...

I am a believer in free market economics, I believe the "American Dream" is founded on free market principles.

That being said, history has shown that the market CANNOT be trusted to regulate or police itself.

I DO NOT support the govornment giving handouts to try and stop a recession or bailing out companies that egaged in poor buisness paractices.

I ABSOLUTELY support govornment regulation of buisness and industry.

For those of you who say "they should have known better". I think that is a very cold way of viewing this situation. Often times the loans that people where being given where being sold to them like a used car, and the mortgage brokers were intentionally deceiving and preying on people they knew could not afford the product they where selling.

If America can avoid the socialist response of free handouts and enact some good legislation regulating the financial industry I think this can be a good thing. It's a good reality check and may help some people to realize that their home equity is not a disposable source of income. Unfortunately, I think that may be asking too much.

JOE JENKINS SOUTH JORDAN | 11:30 a.m. April 17, 2008

IT IS TO BAD. BUT THE MORTGAGE BROKERS GOT THEIR COMMISSION AND DID NOT DO THE BUYERS ANY GOOD. THE BANKS GOT THEIR COMMISSION AND ALSO DID NOT DO THE BUYERS ANY GOOD.
I THINK THE BANKS AND THE MORTGAGE BROKERS SHOULD GIVE THEIR COMMISSION BANK AND PUT AWAY.

guymon | 11:40 a.m. April 17, 2008

amazing the ignorance that persists on this topic. The ARM was created as a result of the savings and loan crash - with a hope that they would not get burned lending money out at a lower rate than what they were bringing in. However to say that the mortgage brokers or lending institutions are responsible is childish. The consumer is able to read -- able to comprehend that the rate will increase - but greed trumps logic and the loan is secured. The government bail out is a terrible decision. The FED should have left Bear Stearns to their fate as they did the 190+ other lenders who failed due to greed. Everyone getting foreclosed on should be left to their own devices as well. Short sales should be promoted to prevent foreclosure and mitigate loss for the banks while there is still a sense of inflated values... this is the more feasible option that F/C is but not as readily pursued.

Real Wealth | 11:42 a.m. April 17, 2008

Dave:

Re: Wheat/Food Storage

Real Wealth is knowing you can feed your family in uncertain economic times. Yes, I feel real good knowing I don't have to beg my neighbor, church or government for food. Last I checked money does not taste real good and the dollar is going down in value and my wheat is increasing in value.

TO DAVE 12:45 am | 11:49 a.m. April 17, 2008

I seriously hope you are being 100% sarcastic. It's hard to tell when "reading" someone's comment, as opposed to "hearing" a comment.

If you are serious, I feel sorry for you.

Simon Says | 11:51 a.m. April 17, 2008

I have lived in Utah (USA) for 8 months. I am amazed at the huge consumer debt that I see. People are encouraged at every turn to spend money that they do not have. I have received countless offers of credit cards from all sorts of institutions and companies since I have been here. It is SO EASY to get into debt here. I have witnessed a surprising level of materialism among people in certain areas. We rented a condo in a really nice area - new, young ,lots of material possessions. When we bought an older home in an older area in the Valley people were amazed that we would want to move to an older area. I have friends that have 3-5 credit cards - all maxed to the limit. What is wrong with people? We love it here and love the opportunities that we have. In my opinion people have largely got themselves into this mess. You don't need a new sofa every 2 years, so what if you kitchen appliances don't match. We love the old area that we live in now. People are grounded and not trying to keep up with the Joneses.

P in California | 12:02 p.m. April 17, 2008

The real losers in the housing crisis are those responsible people like me who actually met the qualifications for a home loan without crazy financing and are making their monthly mortgage payment. Here in N. California where the average home costs more than $600,000- It's the idiots who should have never been approved for a mortgage and are now walking away from a home they should never have qualified for and are foreclosing that caused this crisis. Those people along with the lenders who cooked the loan approvals are making the honest homeowner pay the price for this crisis!!!

Hold on to your knickers: | 12:17 p.m. April 17, 2008

KSL hosted an advertiser today offering training on how to make big bucks in Utah on another personsï¿½s foreclosure[sub-prime lockout]. The training vultures are back and encouraging people to engage in this new white collar crime of equity steeling and flipping properties, amongst other actions that are investigatable and possibly prosecutable. Homeowners have and will go through literal by these sharks and their trainees. Watch out for those ï¿½we can help you avoid foreclosureï¿½ stunts, too.

Live prudently | 12:33 p.m. April 17, 2008

We have a modest house, with no mortgage. Accelerating the payment of principal can save 10's of thousands of dollars. Pay as you go keeps one in the black. But the government and the FED still manage to steal from everyone by creating huge deficits and inflating the money supply. Let's get back to HONEST money! Get the FED out of creating money out of thin air! Ron Paul is right. Only honest money can get us out of this mess!

re:holding out | 12:41 p.m. April 17, 2008

I am very puzzled and confused. you say u are waiting until houses decline to ~50%? I say good luck waiting. How is it that 2 houses in my neighborhood sold in less than a month for way more than they paid for them? If I could get what they sold their homes for just last week, I will have doubled what i paid 3 years ago. Try to tell me that homes are declining! I, too, make what you do, and I am enjoying home ownership while you are enjoying rental receipts. Whatever homes are priced at does not matter, what matters is everyone needs an affordable roof over their head.

Full Perspective | 12:50 p.m. April 17, 2008

I am an educated investor who understands these financial instruments. If I make bad decisions, I should accept responsibility.

However, there are millions of people who have only a rudimentary understanding of mortgage instruments, let alone basic cost-of-money principles. When you involve two real estate agents, a mortgage broker or bank, an underwriter, and a title company, all who have an extremely high vested interest in the transaction taking place, you end up with normal-every-day buyers (and sellers) executing an unwise transaction due to the input of several parties with a potential conflict of interest. I saw this happen with my first house, decades ago, and learned a valuable lesson. Sometimes, however, these lessons are too costly from which to recover.

It is not only inaccurate, but a little cruelly stupid, to believe the responsibility lies only with the buyer here. There is plenty of responsibility and accountability to go around, but real estate agents, mortgage brokers, banks, underwriters, and title companies need to be held accountable for some of it. These fields drive entire sub-economies here and I don't hear a whole lot of people talking about it. This is not equitable.

spend | 1:00 p.m. April 17, 2008

Nonsense!
Spend. Spend. Spend.
Max out all your credit cards.
Keep the American economy afloat.
Buy every new gadget that comes along.
All this gloom and doom talk is just more liberal lies.

Vote Republican (and don't forget to keep spending)

Recession? | 1:07 p.m. April 17, 2008

Everyone here seems to think our economy will rebound as it has many times in the past. You'd better think again! What about our growing annual several-trillion dollar trade deficits that occur every year? What about our insurmountaabe and growing national debt? What about the fact that NAFTA has caused and is continuing to cause the loss of millions of professional jobs, that have gone over to foreign countries (corporate greed)? What about the Free Trade of the Americas (FTA) that our government has been attempting to bring about? What about this on-going war; which we all know, Bush wants to expand into Iran? By the way, we have been borrowing from China to fund this war for the past few years. Against every other currancy, the dollar is plumeting! Oh yeah, and what about the cost of illegal immigration? By the way, the Federal Reserve is unconstitutional and it's title is deceptive! It is made up of private world banks who call all the shots. It is and always has been their design to eliminate the middle-class. I could go on and on. We are on an irreversable course into becoming a third-world nation and into a depression. Unavoidable!

Well then... | 1:21 p.m. April 17, 2008

May some day my wife and I WILL be able to afford a home. We were priced out of the market years ago and have been patiently waiting and saving for the return of home prices from their trip to the moon. Our one bedroom apartment is seeming more and more cozy after seven years.

There are plenty of buyers in Utah. Problem is the prices have left them all behind. Equilibrium needs to be re-established. If that means lots of forclosures and price decreases, so be it. In the end, buyers can keep waiting for the prices they want. Builders and those on the verge of losing their homes don't have that luxury.

RAISE WAGES | 1:37 p.m. April 17, 2008

Raise them or the circle will break.

People with good income don't comlain, then it hits them... then they wonder why.

I am not some poor person screaming because I just couldn't get a good job.

I HAVE a good job and make enough money and I'm in a solid place right now. I recognize the problem today and it is mainly greedy business practices. Businesses want to make more money and don't want to have to pay out.

The news will usually have someone special guest to talk about the "crisis" just as a "set back" but we will move on and the real problem is in this market over here... or over there.... it's only REALLY happening to this crowd.. Just to make the middle class majority feel good to buy more time.

It is simple...nothing need change but businesses focus on working for it's employees as much as they do their customers. That is what will progress society. Anything other than that has always historically killed society and will continue to do so.

Focus on helping everyone or crumble in greed. It's as much a moral issue as a financial problem.

Greed destroys progress. Progress is happyness.

Cris | 1:45 p.m. April 17, 2008

My wife and I have been waiting patiently and renting for four years while other young couples dove head first into large mortgages. They were "living the dream." Looks like our patience and smarts is about to pay off.

It feels so good to be right. To the Utah housing market, "how low can you go, how low can you go?"

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