Reader comments
Fallout from FLDS raid is intense
293 comments | Read story
John | 4:39 p.m. April 16, 2008
People just need to openly practice polygamy and then these things wouldn't
happen. I agree with Steven. All LDS members need to look at our history. We
were once polygamists and will again someday soon. So we just need to know that
our deep desires will be satisfied before God in his wisdom.
Alex | 4:36 p.m. April 16, 2008
To imply that if I choose to be a bit ambivalent about the Texas handling of
this case, that I am thereby condoning abuse, is downright dishonest. It is
unfounded. I don't have to apologize for my hesitancy. Look, if the state
of Texas will show corroborating evidence, then you will find me throwing the
book at the perpetrators with gusto. I'm all for justice--justice for the
guilty. Justice has no better friend than me. However, isn't it a better
idea to find out for sure first before you start suing for PERMANENT custody. I
don't know whether they are guilty or innocent and neither do you.
Comments continue below
Sherri | 4:36 p.m. April 16, 2008
I find it so sad that the police can storm a ranch, search every nook and cranny
and remove 400+ children because they have a report that one girl is endangered.
Yet here is Salt Lake, a poor little girl goes missing and it takes well over a
day to get permission to search for her- One is over zealous and the other is
too restrictive.
Matt in Tucson | 4:53 p.m. April 16, 2008
"Better safe than sorry." What a joke. It is fine if you are
determining what is safe and who is sorry. However, what if someone decides,
due to religious differences, that your child is not safe with you? Removing a
child from a parent is an extreme power, and should not be used without due
diligence. Arizona used their brain, Texas used their bias.
wrz | 4:52 p.m. April 16, 2008
>>Sure, sexual abuse is bad, but what has occured at the hands of Texas
authorities this past week, is so much worse on so many levels.<<
I'm just waiting to see Texas squirm when they get hit by hundreds of law suits for Constitutional and human rights violations.
I'm just waiting to see Texas squirm when they get hit by hundreds of law suits for Constitutional and human rights violations.
Hey Mr. Chet | 4:58 p.m. April 16, 2008
"But as long as the blessed government is cracking down and an
unfashionable religion, it�s wonderful, right?"
Listen, I'm being very serious here. If you're an FLDSer, you're NOT doing them (the cult) any favors. You loook rather foolish to most non-FLDSers and non-FLDS sympathizers and in my view. What do I base that on? .. I base that on folks here at my work reading your justifications, rationalizations, non-sequitors and just plain non-sense (and not just you Mr. Chet but your multiple personalities). Actually, I know that you'll just continue being Mr. Chet et. al.
What part of: it's not about religion but about well documented behavior regarding the systematic and unlawful marriage of little girls to older men just like Uncle Warren says don't you get?
Listen, I'm being very serious here. If you're an FLDSer, you're NOT doing them (the cult) any favors. You loook rather foolish to most non-FLDSers and non-FLDS sympathizers and in my view. What do I base that on? .. I base that on folks here at my work reading your justifications, rationalizations, non-sequitors and just plain non-sense (and not just you Mr. Chet but your multiple personalities). Actually, I know that you'll just continue being Mr. Chet et. al.
What part of: it's not about religion but about well documented behavior regarding the systematic and unlawful marriage of little girls to older men just like Uncle Warren says don't you get?
Texas is right | 5:12 p.m. April 16, 2008
I support Texas in its mission to protect children. It is against the law, in
Texas, for children under 16 to be married and for them to engage in sex with
men 19 or up. Period. The law is being broken again and again. Period.
wrz | 5:11 p.m. April 16, 2008
>>Removing a child from a parent is an extreme power, and should not be
used without due diligence. Arizona used their brain, Texas used their
bias.<<
What's new? Missouri's Governor Boggs wanted them all exterminated.
What's new? Missouri's Governor Boggs wanted them all exterminated.
Sugar Momma | 5:27 p.m. April 16, 2008
Remember guys, the state of Texas has had an informant for four years feeding
them information. This raid was based on way more than a phone call.
I want to see what comes up in court before I take sides.
As for Texas extracting nearly 550 people, yeah it's over the top. But dude. It's Texas. YFZ's bad for migrating to that state to avoid the law.
My heart does break for the moms, but Carolyn Jessop's escape story is terrifying. Google her, look it up on Youtube, or something. Her x-husband is now the head of YFZ ranch, and HE is a megolomaniac FREAK. It's why I believe there's a great deal of substance to all this.
Disclaimer - I know this is an extremist version of the FLDS. I'm not pigeonholing the entire religion based on the alleged actions of this sect. That would be ignorant.
I want to see what comes up in court before I take sides.
As for Texas extracting nearly 550 people, yeah it's over the top. But dude. It's Texas. YFZ's bad for migrating to that state to avoid the law.
My heart does break for the moms, but Carolyn Jessop's escape story is terrifying. Google her, look it up on Youtube, or something. Her x-husband is now the head of YFZ ranch, and HE is a megolomaniac FREAK. It's why I believe there's a great deal of substance to all this.
Disclaimer - I know this is an extremist version of the FLDS. I'm not pigeonholing the entire religion based on the alleged actions of this sect. That would be ignorant.
Bobbie | 5:29 p.m. April 16, 2008
I disagree with the statements of some that the FLDS children are being
brainwashed by their parents. It does not matter what religon one is born into,
the parents teach their own religous beliefs to their children and in turn
'brainwashes' the child into their thinking and belief patterns.
Apparently Texans believe that their own 'brainwashed' beliefs are the
only worthy beliefs and that all others must be protected from their
'faulty' brainwashing they were born into. All 400+ victims have been
labeled as 'faulty' and therefore, according to Texas, must be
deprogrammed and brainwashed into another cult of religion as set forth by the
state.
DW | 5:53 p.m. April 16, 2008
Reply to 'Texas is right'...When Texas law enforcement goes into the
homes of each and every American female citizen within its boarders that is age
16 or younger and was inpregnated by a young man over the age of 19 and arrests
each one involved...justice in Texas will be served and it can once again stand
proud. Let's mess with Texas!!
Steve in Texas | 6:08 p.m. April 16, 2008
Dear Sugar Momma, I appreciate your balanced approach of "wait and
see". I have not read Carolyn Jessop's book, but I'm wary about
people that have an axe to grind and go on a crusade. I don't know if you
are LDS, but we have had a history of people with axes to grind - always
"former members" - who exaggerate and tell over the top lies about us.
There are some who still think we have horns on our heads, sex on the alters of
the temples, or sacrifice virgins in the temples for crying out loud! I'm
all for prosecuting the perpetrators, but let's be careful not to persecute
an entire religious community based on perhaps uninformed opinions. The rule of
law should be the only test here in my (not so humble) opinion.
Frank | 6:05 p.m. April 16, 2008
We have strong double standards in Utah, so we will go with wherever the ball
bounces.
Sara | 6:43 p.m. April 16, 2008
I would like to hear what President Monson has to say about polygamy. It would
certainly determine if me and my family stays or leaves.
Randolph Holladay | 6:44 p.m. April 16, 2008
It appears that a number of feminist ex-FLDS Women are writing to this blog.
All of the rhetoric about abuse and forced marriage sounds quite familiar and
repetitive.
I would be the first to oppose any practice that harms a child (including forced separation from parents), but accusation by innuendo and detention without evidence is something foreign to this country's laws and repellant to most Americans.
So they have no social problems amoung the Baptists of West Texas? This smacks of pure bigotry of the worst kind.
I have rarely heard of draconian actions by child protecdtive services and it's minions that didn't end in disaster. These women seem to be obsessed with the purient in their self-rightous pusuit of control and power over their charges. Where is the milk of human kindness, where is civility? Can decency be cast aside in the name of a "good cause"?
Heaven help these poor people and their persecutors to find their way out of this mess without permanent destruction of their families.
I would be the first to oppose any practice that harms a child (including forced separation from parents), but accusation by innuendo and detention without evidence is something foreign to this country's laws and repellant to most Americans.
So they have no social problems amoung the Baptists of West Texas? This smacks of pure bigotry of the worst kind.
I have rarely heard of draconian actions by child protecdtive services and it's minions that didn't end in disaster. These women seem to be obsessed with the purient in their self-rightous pusuit of control and power over their charges. Where is the milk of human kindness, where is civility? Can decency be cast aside in the name of a "good cause"?
Heaven help these poor people and their persecutors to find their way out of this mess without permanent destruction of their families.
Alex | 7:50 p.m. April 16, 2008
Sara:
"I would like to hear what President Monson has to say about polygamy. It would certainly determine if me and my family stays or leaves. "
Why would he need to comment on this case in the first place? Supposing he did comment, what answer are you looking for?
"I would like to hear what President Monson has to say about polygamy. It would certainly determine if me and my family stays or leaves. "
Why would he need to comment on this case in the first place? Supposing he did comment, what answer are you looking for?
Real World Good Mom | 7:56 p.m. April 16, 2008
Parents are responsible for raising their children well even when there is sin
around them. These parents are too brainwashed and naive to teach their kids how
to live in the real world.
I am raising my son in Texas, having moved here because there were people with similar values to my own. I homeschooled him for years and then put him in public school, but I selected the school and transport him there by car. I don't have a TV, video games or free access internet in the house, but I do allow him to watch TV on the internet with me and also watch movies I approve and surf the internet with close supervision.
My son is a top honor student, respectful, a superb musician, good at chores and already has university scholarships though he is in 9th grade. He has always maintained that he will personally care for me when I am old.
There are drugs, illicit sex, pornography and other bad influences in our town. But, my son is raised well enough and with protection so that he does not personally participate. He is taught to make good choices. FLDS kids need a chance too.
I am raising my son in Texas, having moved here because there were people with similar values to my own. I homeschooled him for years and then put him in public school, but I selected the school and transport him there by car. I don't have a TV, video games or free access internet in the house, but I do allow him to watch TV on the internet with me and also watch movies I approve and surf the internet with close supervision.
My son is a top honor student, respectful, a superb musician, good at chores and already has university scholarships though he is in 9th grade. He has always maintained that he will personally care for me when I am old.
There are drugs, illicit sex, pornography and other bad influences in our town. But, my son is raised well enough and with protection so that he does not personally participate. He is taught to make good choices. FLDS kids need a chance too.
Re: Hey Mr. Chet | 7:58 p.m. April 16, 2008
I don�t get the part about the kidnapping of children of
innocent parents being constitutional. It�s not like I
expect you to understand it either. You obviously don�t
understand much more than that. And when did they let fast food cooks use the
internet during work? Shouldn�t you be paying more
attention to the fries?
If you must know, I am not FLDS. I also have no multiple personalities. You�re just going to have to learn to deal with the fact that some people agree with me. That seems to really bum you out.
I�m sure someone who picks fights with strangers on the internet so he can go home after flipping burgers and tell Daddy what a big man he is can easily �understand� what is logical or just about stealing other peoples� children when no member of their family is guilty of anything other than unfashionable religious beliefs.
The grown ups on this message board are here to speak out against the violation of human rights taking place. You probably can�t relate if the worst thing you can imagine is Daddy not giving you his keys.
So what other human rights violations do you applaud? Tell me more.
If you must know, I am not FLDS. I also have no multiple personalities. You�re just going to have to learn to deal with the fact that some people agree with me. That seems to really bum you out.
I�m sure someone who picks fights with strangers on the internet so he can go home after flipping burgers and tell Daddy what a big man he is can easily �understand� what is logical or just about stealing other peoples� children when no member of their family is guilty of anything other than unfashionable religious beliefs.
The grown ups on this message board are here to speak out against the violation of human rights taking place. You probably can�t relate if the worst thing you can imagine is Daddy not giving you his keys.
So what other human rights violations do you applaud? Tell me more.
Tina | 8:13 p.m. April 16, 2008
Please! CPS is always doing this to children! The system is despirate for reform
and each and every one of those blessed children represents a huge revenue for
those little nazi snots in control. CPS will NEVER give those kids back.
It's just not in thier agenda. They know they have to answer to no one!
AMERICA WAKE UP- YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD COULD BE NEXT> If there is a child
molester living on your street they better step in and take your kids to protect
them too... think about it.
KH | 8:51 p.m. April 16, 2008
Those in defense of the FLDS should find a woman who has escaped the FLDS cult
and ask a few questions. If you can find one who is not in hiding and in fear
for her life.
1. We need to quit quibbling over the age of marriage and get to the real issue. If brides (whether you are talking lawful, spiritual or celestial marriage) are not consenting, too young to understand what they are consenting to, or, as is often the case, brainwashed or coerced into consenting, it's called RAPE and is illegal and should cause the whole country to rise up in protest.
2. The rituals and ceremonies which take place in the temples in the name of religion would be illegal if performed anywhere else and should be exposed for the horrendous acts they are.
3. The disciplinary actions used to control and brainwash children and adults are illegal and need to come to an end.
What is reported on the news is the tip of the iceberg. We should all be mortified that a cult the size of the FLDS could exist and flourish in our great country.
1. We need to quit quibbling over the age of marriage and get to the real issue. If brides (whether you are talking lawful, spiritual or celestial marriage) are not consenting, too young to understand what they are consenting to, or, as is often the case, brainwashed or coerced into consenting, it's called RAPE and is illegal and should cause the whole country to rise up in protest.
2. The rituals and ceremonies which take place in the temples in the name of religion would be illegal if performed anywhere else and should be exposed for the horrendous acts they are.
3. The disciplinary actions used to control and brainwash children and adults are illegal and need to come to an end.
What is reported on the news is the tip of the iceberg. We should all be mortified that a cult the size of the FLDS could exist and flourish in our great country.
Hey Steve in Texas | 9:15 p.m. April 16, 2008
" I don't know if you are LDS, but we have had a history of people
with axes to grind - always "former members" - who exaggerate and tell
over the top lies about us. "
Why don't you do a little research into the trial and conviction of Warren Jeffs, former leader, prophet, revelator and still leader judging from the letters of Colorado City officials to him while he is in jail. There is much documented in the way this cult and it's practices involving very young girls beyond former members with an ax to grind ...
Why don't you do a little research into the trial and conviction of Warren Jeffs, former leader, prophet, revelator and still leader judging from the letters of Colorado City officials to him while he is in jail. There is much documented in the way this cult and it's practices involving very young girls beyond former members with an ax to grind ...
Cosette Green | 9:45 p.m. April 16, 2008
I have a question -- Are the FLDS mothers and their children on welfare? I
mean, are the fathers of all these children supporting them? I'm just
curious. The whole thing is kinda' weird . . . Yes, they are openly
breaking the law by practicing poligamy and they should be prosecuted on that
basis. I hope things work out well for the children; after all, they are the
real victims.
SparkyVA | 10:25 p.m. April 16, 2008
CPS by the nature of their job has a high rate of mistakes, and they generally
get to walk away from those mistakes without even saying "sorry". With
such a large number of cases, no one can deny that many mistakes have been made
that have caused hardship. I see this as a no-win for all sides with perhaps
better guidance and control over what the CPS takes on. The higher ups have to
be thinking now: "What have we gotten ourselves into?" I wait for the
evidence that will justify this draconian action. I am afraid that it won't
be forthcoming.
T in Texas | 10:32 p.m. April 16, 2008
Clearly there are abuses occuring within the FLDS society, and the abusers
should be held accountable for breaking the law. As closed as this group is,
I'm not sure that there is a way to uncover the abuse without getting a
warrant and penetrating the compound.
At the same time, I'm struggling to understand how any court could grant such a broad warrant based on the individual and unverified claims of a one(potentially non-existant) girl. The removal of 400+ people based on a couple of phone calls from one person? Seems a bit extreme and on the verge of religious persecution.
If this "Sarah" indeed exists, I sure hope that she's found, her story can be confirmed, and the guilty parties are apprehended. Until then, it's starting to look like someone manufactured this story with devious intent. If that's the case, can we expect law enforcement to pursue the false informant with the same kind of zeal as they have the FLDS? Please don't let us down Texas.
At the same time, I'm struggling to understand how any court could grant such a broad warrant based on the individual and unverified claims of a one(potentially non-existant) girl. The removal of 400+ people based on a couple of phone calls from one person? Seems a bit extreme and on the verge of religious persecution.
If this "Sarah" indeed exists, I sure hope that she's found, her story can be confirmed, and the guilty parties are apprehended. Until then, it's starting to look like someone manufactured this story with devious intent. If that's the case, can we expect law enforcement to pursue the false informant with the same kind of zeal as they have the FLDS? Please don't let us down Texas.
Anonymous | 10:36 p.m. April 16, 2008
I think it's ironic that many of these children were taken by Warren Jeff from other parents and taken to El Dorado. He built the compound there and handpicked the people to come. He said that these were the chosen people. He also went to all the other coumpounds and handpicked children under 6 yrs old and took them away from their families to be raised by these stepford wives we are now seeing on TV. Do you feel so sorry for the parents whose children were stolen? No wonder the children don't know who they are because they don't know who they are!
Art Jones | 10:49 p.m. April 16, 2008
Who knows a procedure to place an injunction on Texas CPS for its illegal
action? C'mon someone, lets get it underway. Talk will not save the next
innocent target.
Remove these people from office immediately. Who is present to monitor these criminals with a badge?
Do you hear the comments of the spokeswoman for CPS stating a case even before taking any evidence at all?
If you feel it, file it.
Remove these people from office immediately. Who is present to monitor these criminals with a badge?
Do you hear the comments of the spokeswoman for CPS stating a case even before taking any evidence at all?
If you feel it, file it.
pedophiles be gone | 10:49 p.m. April 16, 2008
Go Texas Go! It's time to shut this sickness down. At the very least,
perhaps this will cause some of them to stay in other states.
Texas is a fine place to live, so long as you obey the laws. It really isn't that difficult.
Texas is a fine place to live, so long as you obey the laws. It really isn't that difficult.
Ironic Indeed | 10:52 p.m. April 16, 2008
"Perhaps the Texas CPS should consider invading other nations if they feel
so concerned about "protecting the interests of children"."
You'd be the first person wringing your hands about it and complaining if we actually did invade other nations to protect children.
"Or maybe the FLDS should emigrate in masse since the state of Texas has a long history of intolerance toward faiths who teach things opposed to what traditional mainstream christianity teaches."
Now that's a pretty good idea. The Lord didn't tolerate them much either.
You'd be the first person wringing your hands about it and complaining if we actually did invade other nations to protect children.
"Or maybe the FLDS should emigrate in masse since the state of Texas has a long history of intolerance toward faiths who teach things opposed to what traditional mainstream christianity teaches."
Now that's a pretty good idea. The Lord didn't tolerate them much either.
Mr. Chet | 10:58 p.m. April 16, 2008
You can talk to me about human rights as soon as you stop defending
parent's "rights" to have their children raped and abused in the
name of religion.
uncommonly held notions | 11:05 p.m. April 16, 2008
"There are some who still think we have horns on our heads, sex on the
alters of the temples, or sacrifice virgins in the temples for crying out
loud!"
I kid you NOT, the only people that I have ever heard say any of those things are MORMONS!!! And always in the very context that you used it...assuming the mantle of victimhood. I have never known anyone that believed such ridiculous comments, but I always hear Mormons talking about them as if they were common yet seldom discussed issues. There was even an article in the San-Ho-Ho state Spartans daily that said the very same thing!
We don't think any of that, just in case you actually believe that we do. It's the things that we disagree about that concern us, and they are very real indeed.
I kid you NOT, the only people that I have ever heard say any of those things are MORMONS!!! And always in the very context that you used it...assuming the mantle of victimhood. I have never known anyone that believed such ridiculous comments, but I always hear Mormons talking about them as if they were common yet seldom discussed issues. There was even an article in the San-Ho-Ho state Spartans daily that said the very same thing!
We don't think any of that, just in case you actually believe that we do. It's the things that we disagree about that concern us, and they are very real indeed.
Astonishing | 11:00 p.m. April 16, 2008
"I think it's ironic that many of these children were taken by Warren
Jeff from other parents and taken to El Dorado. He built the compound there and
handpicked the people to come. He said that these were the chosen people. He
also went to all the other coumpounds and handpicked children under 6 yrs old
and took them away from their families to be raised by these stepford wives we
are now seeing on TV. Do you feel so sorry for the parents whose children were
stolen? No wonder the children don't know who they are because they
don't know who they are!"
--------------
As this story unfolds (BTW, I've been reading accounts of your discription above), it it going to be beyond interesting (and heartbreaking). Apparently there are so many angles that it's breathtaking in scope. Of course the FLDS folks here and there sympathizers will be repeating the same mind boggling scripts: "How about the teens getting pregant in the Ghetto?" endlessly. This will be no Short Creek ...
--------------
As this story unfolds (BTW, I've been reading accounts of your discription above), it it going to be beyond interesting (and heartbreaking). Apparently there are so many angles that it's breathtaking in scope. Of course the FLDS folks here and there sympathizers will be repeating the same mind boggling scripts: "How about the teens getting pregant in the Ghetto?" endlessly. This will be no Short Creek ...
marjorie newman | 1:03 a.m. April 17, 2008
This kind of abuse has been a part of these communities for many decades. This
is just the first time that people have stepped in and done something about it.
In other communities the police are members of the church and usually return the girls who try to escape to the church and they learn not to try and get away.
This is all done in God's name. Thank God for Texas. By the way ask yourself why they have beds in a temple.
Think it through.
Wake up everyone.
In other communities the police are members of the church and usually return the girls who try to escape to the church and they learn not to try and get away.
This is all done in God's name. Thank God for Texas. By the way ask yourself why they have beds in a temple.
Think it through.
Wake up everyone.
mamafirst | 1:33 a.m. April 17, 2008
RE: "If Texas is going to err, however, let it be on the side of protecting
the kids from abuse."
You must realize that the foster care system is RIPE with abuses. I was in foster care from age 10 - 14, as were my four siblings. We were moved from home to home, after we were separated, that is. While we had a horrible childhood previous, nothing compared to the physical and sexual abuse heaped upon my siblings in foster care and their subsequent adoptive homes. Yes - social workers came to visit. They spent most of their time visiting with the foster mother. I was asked very few questions, and was NEVER ONCE asked if I was being abused. I was never even ONCE asked about previous abuse from my childhood, so I never got any counselling.
Some of their visits were just "drive-bys" where they didn't even get out of the car. I had so many different case workers, it seemed as if there was a new one almost every time.
So, don't think just because these children are placed by CPS that they will be protected from abuse.
You must realize that the foster care system is RIPE with abuses. I was in foster care from age 10 - 14, as were my four siblings. We were moved from home to home, after we were separated, that is. While we had a horrible childhood previous, nothing compared to the physical and sexual abuse heaped upon my siblings in foster care and their subsequent adoptive homes. Yes - social workers came to visit. They spent most of their time visiting with the foster mother. I was asked very few questions, and was NEVER ONCE asked if I was being abused. I was never even ONCE asked about previous abuse from my childhood, so I never got any counselling.
Some of their visits were just "drive-bys" where they didn't even get out of the car. I had so many different case workers, it seemed as if there was a new one almost every time.
So, don't think just because these children are placed by CPS that they will be protected from abuse.
slap leather | 5:13 a.m. April 17, 2008
"Let's mess with Texas!!" said a guy far, far from Texas.
Re:It's all relative | 6:01 a.m. April 17, 2008
To: It's all relative 4:23 PM I say WHAT??? You say the State of Texas has
no idea what they are doing Because the state did not issue marriage licenses
for the underage marriages. This is about Child Abuse and Underage Girls having
Babies. These do not require a license they require a sick mind and the evidence
is there and can be proven.
Re:wrz 5:11 pm | 6:17 a.m. April 17, 2008
wrz you think removing kids that are being sexually abused is much worse than
the abuse. I can't believe it is possible for someone to have this opinion.
But this mindset explains how a situation like the YFZ ranch occur. I am sure
that every man at the ranch thinks just like you.
CA | 6:24 a.m. April 17, 2008
mamfirst- I'm sorry to hear about your poor experience, and I'm
certain things have changed for the better. Read about Dr. Bruce Perry, who is
taking charge of the kids.
Those kids need help and lots of it. The first step to institutionalized abuse is isolation.
I'm all for grown-ups making their own life decisions, but these kids don't have ANY choices (or protections). Dr Perry talks about kids who were unable to decide if they wanted jelly on their PB&J sandwiches because they were never allowed to make a decision before.
Even Michael Jackson said he would never "harm" a child....because he didn't consider what he did to be "harmful". He thought of it as "love".
Those kids need help and lots of it. The first step to institutionalized abuse is isolation.
I'm all for grown-ups making their own life decisions, but these kids don't have ANY choices (or protections). Dr Perry talks about kids who were unable to decide if they wanted jelly on their PB&J sandwiches because they were never allowed to make a decision before.
Even Michael Jackson said he would never "harm" a child....because he didn't consider what he did to be "harmful". He thought of it as "love".
David | 6:55 a.m. April 17, 2008
Someone asked if these mothers are on welfare. You might want to read about
"bleeding the beast." Effectively the first wife marries and all
other women are "spiritual wives." The spiritual wives claim they are
single women without a father for the children. So, state money is used to
support these children. Clearly with 20+ children, no typical man could
financially swing it. Unfortunately the wife must give her welfare check up to
her husband and from there he redistributes the support to his wives as he sees
fit. So favored wives receive more than unfavored wives.
Also look up "lost boys." Excess boys are kicked off the compound because they are competition for the men.
Also look up "lost boys." Excess boys are kicked off the compound because they are competition for the men.
Read the Fine Print | 6:55 a.m. April 17, 2008
This "religion" should figure out a way to not whore out it's
women until they are of legal age.
They do it this way - marrying them off young - because it is a way of control.
They do it this way - marrying them off young - because it is a way of control.
Mike | 6:57 a.m. April 17, 2008
Many of you wonder how mothers can be separated from their children. This is
why: Mothers tattle on their daughters to church authorities when the girls
reach puberty so they can be married off and sometimes married to close family
relatives which is proved with Warren Jeffs, their leader and his legal case.
Mothers also allow their sons to be kicked out of the compound when they appear
to be competition. What 14 year old boy successfully survives that without
resorting to prostitution which is effectively the course they are given? When a
person wans to escape the cult, they are ratted out by other "sister-wives
(just as Kathleen Jessop ratted out Carolyn Jessop.) While they are now crying,
where were their tears with the above? It is not about polygamy but abusive
crimes against children. The children were pulled, not because of the phone
call but because of what the police saw when they got there. My guess? Girls
that appear to be too young to have babies but pregnant.
DBinPA | 7:00 a.m. April 17, 2008
The number one concern as I see it is birth defects from inbreeding. That
causes serious problems of major illnesses and death. Kicking the boys out of
the compound is moderately serious as the boys have serious abandonment issues.
Lesser problems regarding the age differences of partners and the exact proper
age of consent can be overcome with FLDS community parenting. The law is not
always correct just because it is law. Laws can be arbitrary and frequently
need to be challenged. Polygamy has Biblical precedent if kept reasonable. Age
of consent has some arbitrariness and could range psychologically from 12-14.
In this so called land of the free and home of the brave there are way too many
sets of laws, districts, jurisdictions, and circuits. The law sets are
unwieldy. There may be a good compromise between the FLDS and the state given
the very high publicity of this case. Almost always the state thugs win
completely, even when wrong, and way too rarely does the judiciary act as a
balance of power against the law to amend onerous or irrational judgments and
laws. Appeals courts need to be pressured to be liberty minded and
un-political, but very wise.
David the Ex-mo | 7:06 a.m. April 17, 2008
While I know many of us want to believe so, the reality is that polygamy is not
just a mormon thing. There are polygs in every state in the U.S. Some are
Muslim, Jewish, Pagan, and yes Christian. Just because you don't know
them, doesn't mean they are not out there. Again, they are in every single
state.
This issue is not about polygamy but clear cut abuse of children, even if some polygamists wish to pretend otherwise.
This issue is not about polygamy but clear cut abuse of children, even if some polygamists wish to pretend otherwise.
@ mamafirst | 7:43 a.m. April 17, 2008
I am sorry to hear about what you and your siblings went through. I hope time
has healed your wounds and you have found enough peace, beauty, and joy in your
life to compensate for it ten fold.
Thank you for shining a light on the fate that awaits these children, lest we assume that once they have been removed from an unfashionable religion against their will that everything will be sunshine and roses.
Thank you for shining a light on the fate that awaits these children, lest we assume that once they have been removed from an unfashionable religion against their will that everything will be sunshine and roses.
Havlina | 8:11 a.m. April 17, 2008
Sadly, everyone of the women and children have given up their "basic
rights" deferring to a man who is supposed to love them, speak for them and
"protect" them but what if he doesn't? Further crimes in the name
of Christianity are committed all the time, and if you're Muslim then
it's referred to as "terrorism". The whole religion thing has me
frightened. Where have all the "true believers" gone. Does anyone
admit to wrong doings, misbehavior, abuse, disrespect, and sinning. We've
felt sorry for "men" or "teachers" far too long. Those who
sin need to atone that's it plain and simple. ENOUGH! stop protecting the
sinners.
Havlina | 8:13 a.m. April 17, 2008
Sadly, everyone of the woman and children have given up their "basic
rights" deferring to a man who is supposed to love them to speak for them
and "protect" them but what if he doesn't? Further crimes in the
name of Christianity are committed all the time. It's called
"sacrafice" unless you're Muslim then it's referred to as
"terrorism". The whole religion thing has me frightened. Where have
all the "true believers" gone. Does anyone admit to wrong doings,
misbehavior, abuse, disrespect, and sinning. I fall short. But, we've felt
sorry for "men" or "teachers" far too long. Those who sin
need to atone that's it plain and simple.
Fathers | 8:25 a.m. April 17, 2008
I've yet to see anyone answer where these FLDS Fathers are and why they
aren't stepping up and demanding their children be returned.
I've seen them running to their vehicles while shielding their faces but as of yet I have not seen one step up and demand his rights to his children be restored.
The Mothers are very evasive with their answers when it comes to questions that might be construed as criminal evidence or compliance, and that's understandable but why aren't the Fathers doing the same?
I've seen them running to their vehicles while shielding their faces but as of yet I have not seen one step up and demand his rights to his children be restored.
The Mothers are very evasive with their answers when it comes to questions that might be construed as criminal evidence or compliance, and that's understandable but why aren't the Fathers doing the same?
Kyle | 8:39 a.m. April 17, 2008
Warren Jeffs and the FLDS have destroyed more families than the State of Texas
ever will.
Sorry!
Jeffs wins this one hands down.
1. How many wives and children has he re-assigned from "unworthy" men to "worthy' men?
2. How many children has he and the FLDS before him, taken away from "unworthy" parents?
3. How many sons have been ripped from their families, accused of various misdeeds and thrown out into the cold with no life skills of connections in order to reduce competition for women in the community?
Where were the mothers' tear then?
Did they come on TV and the DMN looking for sympathy from us? Did they threaten to sue the FLDS?
The irony.
Where was all this outrage for the "Lost Boys"?
Where?
Nobody believes you all. Warren Jeffs has done this many times before (not to mention all the "prophets' before him). Give then a year: ALL 400 children will be replaced by then.
Sorry!
Jeffs wins this one hands down.
1. How many wives and children has he re-assigned from "unworthy" men to "worthy' men?
2. How many children has he and the FLDS before him, taken away from "unworthy" parents?
3. How many sons have been ripped from their families, accused of various misdeeds and thrown out into the cold with no life skills of connections in order to reduce competition for women in the community?
Where were the mothers' tear then?
Did they come on TV and the DMN looking for sympathy from us? Did they threaten to sue the FLDS?
The irony.
Where was all this outrage for the "Lost Boys"?
Where?
Nobody believes you all. Warren Jeffs has done this many times before (not to mention all the "prophets' before him). Give then a year: ALL 400 children will be replaced by then.
James II | 9:06 a.m. April 17, 2008
I notice that we do have quite a few normal Americans on this post who do think
that the FLSD Practice is absurd. These evil people need to be put out of the
brothel business in the name of God.
most comments.... | 9:46 a.m. April 17, 2008
Nonsense and Bla bla bla!
Add your comment
Comments are monitored. Any comments found to be abusive, offensive, off-topic, misrepresentative, more than 200 words or containing URLs will not be posted.
Words Remaining
E-mail address: For internal use only. We may want to contact you to publish your comment (not your e-mail address) in the newspaper or for a separate story idea.
Rep. Drew Darby addresses the media during a briefing in San Angelo, Texas, Tuesday. "As a human being, none of us like human misery, nor do we like the abuse of children," he said. "We have a saying here: 'Don't mess with Texas.' I'm going to change it up and say, 'Don't mess with the children of Texas.'"
Video
Related content
- Kentucky edges UNC 68-66 3:26 p.m.
- Chelsea's lead trimmed after loss 3:24 p.m.
- Russian nightclub fire kills 107 3:19 p.m.
- Kurt Bestor: Joy for the world 3:02 p.m.
- School drops required fitness class 2:55 p.m.
- 2 people, 43 horses dead in barn fire 2:47 p.m.
- New Kurosawa DVD gift set 2:19 p.m.
- Baucus: Girlfriend merited post 2:09 p.m.
- Medicare cuts focus of health debate 2:03 p.m.
- Pike rallies Cincinnati past Pitt 2:01 p.m.
- Why is Y. ignoring spew of hatred?
302 - BYU says Hall incident resolved247
- Letters: Liberal because LDS245
- 2 citations issued at Y.-U. game189
- Hate not limited to 1 in-state rivalry188
- Aggies shoot past Cougars179
- Y. profs: Beck not all-knowing162
- N.Y. Senate rejects gay marriage125
- Max Hall: a fixture in rivalry lore118
- Unbeaten BYU takes trip to Logan105
Trolley Square's annual Holiday Open House will feature visits with...
That does it — I'm having an affair! Thanks to Tiger Woods, David...
First, a big thank you to all who posted questions here for me to ask...
Latest comments
Snow wins 41-37!!!!!!!! Go Badgers!
To: re: MoJules | 9:43 a.m. Dec. 3, 2009 I'm not even going to TRY to...
I'll miss Harpring, he was a true BB player with heart and soul. He was a...
Jazz fans were booing the Pacers and the officials. That hurt their feelings...
utah lost more contributive players that meant more to the team. Brian...
If Mr."the truth" wants quick decisions then he should employ the use of the...
Remember that Christ was not born on Dec. 25th, He was born in April. The...
If you've got the water (a lot of precious water) and if you don't care that...
Half million dollars. I can tell you if the kidnapper and child molester...
"I am sick of all the comments claiming that Utah is in a rebuilding...
Advertisements
For example, in one Mexican state, the AoC is literally 12. In Colombia it is 14. In the middle east the marriage age is 13. Perhaps the Texas CPS should consider invading other nations if they feel so concerned about "protecting the interests of children". Or is it because the person who heads CPS is angling to run for political office????
Or maybe the FLDS should emigrate in masse since the state of Texas has a long history of intolerance toward faiths who teach things opposed to what traditional mainstream christianity teaches.