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Fallout from FLDS raid is intense
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Cookie | 12:08 p.m. April 16, 2008
Whoops! Don't forget spellcheck? How about FUMARASE DEFICIENCY? That is
worth looking up. Texas hit the nail on the head in not wanting taxpayers to
pick up the tab for FLDS BIRTH DEFECTS and future BIRTH DEFECTS.
Here we go again | 12:09 p.m. April 16, 2008
Now that all of us armchair analysts are crucifying Texas AGAIN, I think that
maybe we should all take the time to do some research on these "peace
loving people" Read the article "Tempest in Texas " on the
Southern Poverty Law Center website. I have lived in Texas for the last 16 years
and am very happy that I'm here. I personally wish that the "Little
House on the Prairie" people would pack their little covered wagons and
haul their carcasses back to Utah or Arizona. The biggest mistake that Texas
made was not rounding them up when they found out that they lied about the ranch
that they bought.
Comments continue below
To Anon | 12:12 p.m. April 16, 2008
Anonymous Stated "Texas is the worst state in the union" NO Anonymous,
Utah has that title. If Utah had put a stop to this practice a hundred years ago
we would not have this situation today. Texas is merely protecting the children.
Hopefully this will enlighten Utah and Az. and they will begin protecting the
children in their states. Hopefully before every child is born with Fumarase
Deficiency.If you don't know what that is google it. It is caused by all of
the inbreeding. But you can't see anything wrong with what they are doing.
Lionheart | 12:12 p.m. April 16, 2008
Kay 11:39: Your story just breaks my heart. I pray that your children will be
returned and justice will be served for you. None the less, you were right to
have run with your children and someday all will be added back to you.
Hummmm? | 12:13 p.m. April 16, 2008
To Anonymous 11:45 a.m.
NOPE! you have that wrong. UTAH is the worst! They still have polygamist here. They act like this is just an okay and go about their daily business. They seem to over look the FLDS cultists about their noses. MAKES ME SICK!!!
NOPE! you have that wrong. UTAH is the worst! They still have polygamist here. They act like this is just an okay and go about their daily business. They seem to over look the FLDS cultists about their noses. MAKES ME SICK!!!
Re:Good Grief | 12:31 p.m. April 16, 2008
Texas did take instant control of the situation and Someone, or Many, will be
arrested at YFZ ranch as soon as the investigation is complete. Someone
impregnated many underage girls and I guess that could be the "somebody
screwed up and will be arrested" in the last scenario.
Evidence? | 12:28 p.m. April 16, 2008
I don't understand how the TX or Fed officials are okay with this. They
must be keeping something from the media and the general public.
When TX had the Br Davidians, outside Waco, there was plenty of evidence before they did anything. It was clear that they had hidden illegal arms, when a UPS employee accidentally discovered a box of grenades being delivered to them. David Koresh holed himself up and called in his leaders to help fight a search warrant.
Where is any evidence to justify this raid?
When TX had the Br Davidians, outside Waco, there was plenty of evidence before they did anything. It was clear that they had hidden illegal arms, when a UPS employee accidentally discovered a box of grenades being delivered to them. David Koresh holed himself up and called in his leaders to help fight a search warrant.
Where is any evidence to justify this raid?
Concerned | 12:32 p.m. April 16, 2008
I stand behind the actions take by the CPS, it is better to be safe than
sorry,leaving one child behind in a stiuation they should not have to deal with
would be far worse. I agree that it was obvious from the interviews of the FLDS
Mothers that there is a definate problem. Six women left for a "safer
place". Not many out of 57 but way to many to not indicate that the others
are afraid of something. If this is,as I have read, a society of generational
interfamily marriage steps have to be taken to prevent this in the future. My
heart goes out to the women and children who must be terrified in such an
unfamilar situation. The saddest fact of all is that Texas authority did not act
on this a very long time ago. They could have found a way if they wanted to.
Re: Sokol | 12:33 p.m. April 16, 2008
If this was a compound filled with drug dealers and abusers you would be
clapping for joy. Sounds like you are believing the FLDS PR machine.
The ranch only had 50 men! Out of roughly 700 people at the ranch, just 50 of them were men over the age of 18. That's messed up.
The women and children are all victims of mental and physical abuse from those 50 men. You scream of fascism and discrimination on the part of the U.S. government. What about the 50 men at that ranch discriminating, controling and raping women?
The ranch only had 50 men! Out of roughly 700 people at the ranch, just 50 of them were men over the age of 18. That's messed up.
The women and children are all victims of mental and physical abuse from those 50 men. You scream of fascism and discrimination on the part of the U.S. government. What about the 50 men at that ranch discriminating, controling and raping women?
they love to punish people | 12:33 p.m. April 16, 2008
This is the sort of thing that will always happen when conservative
authoritarians are given too much power. Conservatives love to punish people.
The progressives tried to warn you, but ....
The progressives tried to warn you, but ....
Unbelievable | 12:33 p.m. April 16, 2008
I can't believe how many comments there are on this site stating that Texas
should not have taken action against this group. There are many reasons stated
why Texas should have done nothing and allowed this abuse to continue. To the
people that say there is no evidence of abuse I say...THERE ARE MANY MANY
UNDERAGE GIRLS WITH BABIES THAT HAVE ONLY HAD CONTACT WITH THE MEN AT THE
RANCH...THAT IS PROOF OF ABUSE NOW WE HAVE TO FIGURE OUT WHICH OF THE COWARD
SILENT MEN ARE GUILITY. That can be done with DNA Testing. And most of the DNA
at this ranch is pretty close.
Sokol | 12:36 p.m. April 16, 2008
We have more elitists that are ready to deny religious people their due process
and constitutional rights. These people were
attacked because they were diffent, if the
were from a minority background or Muslim
every liberal fascist would be screaming to
help, but since they people are white with
conservative views, they are not allowed
to have any human rights protections.
The hypocrisy is self evident.
attacked because they were diffent, if the
were from a minority background or Muslim
every liberal fascist would be screaming to
help, but since they people are white with
conservative views, they are not allowed
to have any human rights protections.
The hypocrisy is self evident.
Sorry | 12:39 p.m. April 16, 2008
I love Texas!!! They don't mess with anything. That is why they are not
push-overs like the rest of the U.S.A.. Go get them Texas.
Prod One | 12:40 p.m. April 16, 2008
The way Texas acted with NO evidence was way beyond any thing reasonable.
Investigate, that is fine, but had they investigated they would have found that
the call was not even made by a member of the church. This is the equivalent of
Stalinist jackbooted thugs kicking down your door because a neighbor denounced
you to the state.
I am not a member of the FLDS or LDS - Presbyterian in fact, but this is some scary stuff.
I am not a member of the FLDS or LDS - Presbyterian in fact, but this is some scary stuff.
Ask Yourselves | 12:45 p.m. April 16, 2008
To all those that defend the FLDS Church. Girls are born at a rate of 51%,
while boys 49%. Notice how that is almost 50/50. What happens to all those
boys when a few men have 4 or more wives? Oh, they get tossed out, using the
most ridiculous of excuses, especially if they are decent looking and draw the
attention of young females that old men and sometimes uncle hope to put in
their stable (as in the Warren Jeffs case.) Is kicking out the competition for
females in your religion text? Is abandoning sons of Israel glorious in the
eyes of the Lord? I think the Lord sees it as child abuse and has some
scriptures referring to millstones. As for Texas, they simply are applying the
Rule of Law to such criminal actions by parents.
AS | 12:45 p.m. April 16, 2008
Separating children from their mothers is a very heartbreaking thing to do. I am
sure these FLDS mothers genuinely love and care for their children. However,
child abuse of any kind cannot be condoned, and these people have brought this
on themselves. Older men having sex with girls under the age of 18 is a crime,
and it is abuse, whether they are "consenting" or not. Most states do
not recognize a minor's right to "consent". I do not agree with
the FLDS way of life, but they do have a right to live the way they do, as
adults. They do not have the right to pressure or even allow minor girls into
sexual relationships with men, or banish young boys from the fold. If the FLDS
were smart enough to not "marry" off their girls until they are at
least 18, and thus consenting adults, they could have avoided all of this. Let
us hope that some good can come of this and these children can find some
semblance of happiness after all this is said and done.
questioning | 12:52 p.m. April 16, 2008
let's wait for proof of abuse before we say who's right or wrong. We
are only hearing from the media.
Sokol | 12:54 p.m. April 16, 2008
If that were true, which I doubt that you have the
facts, then why did only 6 women go to a shelter..and many were lied to...Why did they take
their cell phones? You are referring to men, some maybe fathers. Of course, underlieing most of the
anti religious, zelophobic do gooders, is the need
to bash men. Do you think any of the department
has a natural bias against this religion and of
course fathers? There are hundreds of people in
even Utah, that have had their children taken away
because of a false allegation. Some 'report' anonymously made, maybe that report never existed and
was another fabrication by TEXAS CPS officials.
Again, more due process rights and protections are given to criminal than parents in these CPS interventions. It is a stretch for you to include
drug involvement, when all we have is one affadavit,
but all parents, and all children affected.
facts, then why did only 6 women go to a shelter..and many were lied to...Why did they take
their cell phones? You are referring to men, some maybe fathers. Of course, underlieing most of the
anti religious, zelophobic do gooders, is the need
to bash men. Do you think any of the department
has a natural bias against this religion and of
course fathers? There are hundreds of people in
even Utah, that have had their children taken away
because of a false allegation. Some 'report' anonymously made, maybe that report never existed and
was another fabrication by TEXAS CPS officials.
Again, more due process rights and protections are given to criminal than parents in these CPS interventions. It is a stretch for you to include
drug involvement, when all we have is one affadavit,
but all parents, and all children affected.
Clifton | 12:55 p.m. April 16, 2008
Wise up folks! The 350 Lawyers are defending the kids, for nothing, so how do
you bigots think the FLDS are going to get fat from this?
Another thing, some here refer to the the 1st Amendment of the US Constitution's freedom of Religion. So are only a selected few Religions such as Catholics, Evangelicals, and other Protestant sects should be free to practice what they believe, while the FLDS cannot? Apparently the Branch Davidians in Waco were amongs those who didn't measure up to 1st Amendment rights either.
Almost forgot! Some critisize the Deseret News for sugar coating the News about the FLDS. Well I say Hooray for the Deseret News! At least they had the nereve to tell the other side of the predicament the FLDS find themselves in, rather than the Public relying on the biasedand slanted reporting of local and MSM. Thanks Deseret news for showing pictures the heavy handed tactics and equiptment used by Texas law enforcement.
Another thing, some here refer to the the 1st Amendment of the US Constitution's freedom of Religion. So are only a selected few Religions such as Catholics, Evangelicals, and other Protestant sects should be free to practice what they believe, while the FLDS cannot? Apparently the Branch Davidians in Waco were amongs those who didn't measure up to 1st Amendment rights either.
Almost forgot! Some critisize the Deseret News for sugar coating the News about the FLDS. Well I say Hooray for the Deseret News! At least they had the nereve to tell the other side of the predicament the FLDS find themselves in, rather than the Public relying on the biasedand slanted reporting of local and MSM. Thanks Deseret news for showing pictures the heavy handed tactics and equiptment used by Texas law enforcement.
Anonymous | 1:05 p.m. April 16, 2008
I am somewhat amazed at people criticising TX for their action, when these
people have not had the priviledge of reading or examing the same evidence that
TX has. TX has a long history of standing up to be counted against all
odds...remember the alamo...!!!! TX has do the right thing in acting, now the
attorneys and such have to argue differently or in favor. But TX did the right
thing atleast they acted where others have turned their backs. People leave TX
alone...don't mess with TX
Stepford Wives | 1:12 p.m. April 16, 2008
I don't think the FLDS mothers will ever get their kids back after watching
their pathetic interviews on the Today Show this morning. They have pretty much
shot themselves in the foot with their evasive answers.
wallofvoodoo | 1:13 p.m. April 16, 2008
In theory I think Texas did the right thing. If we are talking about things to
look up, look up the Short Creek raid. Arizona with the blessing of Utah did the
very same thing. Largely regarded as a disaster, I think that it was a lesson in
what not to do. The reason that the FLDS are in Texas in the first place is
because Utah is working on other more subtle means of accomplishing the same
thing. Short Creek is a big reason why Utah never raided Colorado City. In short
it was costly and ineffective. If Texas pulls this off, kudos. Texas is not
generally know for subtlety, but I'm afraid they are going to find that
they have gotten them selves in a messy, expensive and frustrating battle that
they really don't want any part of any longer. But I hope they are
sucessful, this abuse needs to stop.
Proud Former Texan | 1:31 p.m. April 16, 2008
Dear michaelh, you claim that Texas has rushed to judgement with "trumpted
up charges" but the truth of the matter is that you have jumped to that
conclusion without all of the facts. The children and their parents will have
their day in court and it appears that Texas officials are proceeding in a
timely manner. We will all learn soon enough if the charges are verifiable and
in the mean time the children are out of danger or even the potential danger.
By the way, Texas is a wonderful place and it will not miss you a bit.
By the way, Texas is a wonderful place and it will not miss you a bit.
Ohio Valley | 1:39 p.m. April 16, 2008
We have not seen or heard all of the evidence yet. I am sure the authorities in
Texas were smart enough to realize what they were doing an have looked at all of
the angles before making the move. They had been observing this sect/compund for
a long time,every since they bought the land and lied about why they were buying
the land and then the scum bucket Warren Jeffs got in trouble. I would imagine
the Govenor of Texas new this raid would take place at the 1st sign or call of
someone being abused in the compund.The plan was in place to move forward at the
1st SOS from the compund.
I would be a lot more worried if the goverment DID NOT take action over something like this. These people in the compund have been brainwashed and do not think rationally and become a danger to themselves and especially the innocent children. Look what the done to the teenage boys the booted out of the compound and left on there own.
This cult and others like them need to have the front door kicked in an exposed for what they truly are. Disgusting at the very least.
I would be a lot more worried if the goverment DID NOT take action over something like this. These people in the compund have been brainwashed and do not think rationally and become a danger to themselves and especially the innocent children. Look what the done to the teenage boys the booted out of the compound and left on there own.
This cult and others like them need to have the front door kicked in an exposed for what they truly are. Disgusting at the very least.
SGW | 1:38 p.m. April 16, 2008
As much as I don't like the idea of polygamy and some of the things this
group may stand for, it's a truly scary thing to see the government just go
in and take these children out en mass. If there was actually a case of abuse,
then deal with that one case. Ripping these children away from their mothers is
not called for! It sets a scary precedent. The day may come when it's your
religion that people feel is a threat to children....
Paul in Mexifornia | 1:45 p.m. April 16, 2008
This reaks of impropriety and descrimination. This all based on an anonymous
phone call regarding one man??-- SCARY. How do they justify taking all the
children based on an anonymous call? Makes me wonder what could happen to my
family based on an anonymous call. Americans- you better wake up. Let me
anylize this for you- because they practice a religion that is strange or
uncomfortable to the mainstream American, does that equate to abuse?? The State
of Texas better have a overwhelming probable cause of abuse. HMMMMM, so if I
don't like my neighbor, I can make an anonymous call to CPS and have them
detroy him and steal his kids?? Wake up Sheeple!!
PENNVOTER | 1:48 p.m. April 16, 2008
TRAMPLED IN TEXAS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
AMENDMENT I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;
Gonna git you cathalics and funmintalists next!!!!!
Amendment IV
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
We don�t need no stinkin pwobal caus anonymous fone call will do!!!
Amendment VIII
Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.
Hmmm lets see,,, 400 PLUS five to 15 year old children being ISOLATED, DETAINED, AND questioned by the AUTHORITIES without their parents and or legal representation?????????????????????
Anonymous Calls | 2:08 p.m. April 16, 2008
For all those complaining that Texas launched an investigation based on an
anonymous call, do you have a secret agenda to get rid of all 9-1-1 call
centers?
There's probably not a second goes by in this country that authorities aren't investigating a possible crime based on nothing but an anonymous call.
If you're going to criticize, at least come up with something original instead of this lame argument that it was ONLY an anonymous call.
There's probably not a second goes by in this country that authorities aren't investigating a possible crime based on nothing but an anonymous call.
If you're going to criticize, at least come up with something original instead of this lame argument that it was ONLY an anonymous call.
To Texas Shame? | 2:08 p.m. April 16, 2008
Stop making up conclusions where none are warranted.
According to news reports there are approximately 20 young women age 13-16 who are pregnant by adult men.
The only Shame is people like you who try to change the subject. Stay on subject. ABUSE.
According to news reports there are approximately 20 young women age 13-16 who are pregnant by adult men.
The only Shame is people like you who try to change the subject. Stay on subject. ABUSE.
To FLDS | 2:05 p.m. April 16, 2008
Post defenses of your actions. Good luck.
This busy of be-deviling everyone because you messed up is bunk.
This busy of be-deviling everyone because you messed up is bunk.
To Anonymous Calls | 2:07 p.m. April 16, 2008
There were multiple calls, all recorded.
Read the court transcripts people before you open your mouth and sound derranged.
There was an inside informant. Backup to what was going on.
What don't you understand?
Read the court transcripts people before you open your mouth and sound derranged.
There was an inside informant. Backup to what was going on.
What don't you understand?
Califas | 2:14 p.m. April 16, 2008
TO SOKOL: To better understand the willingness with which the FLDS
"mothers" returned to the FLDS compound and their abusers, please
familiarize yourself with Stockholm's Syndrome. Wikipedia defines this
syndrome as:
"Stockholm syndrome is a psychological response sometimes seen in an abducted hostage, in which the hostage shows signs of loyalty to the hostage-taker, regardless of the danger (or at least risk) in which the hostage has been placed. Stockholm syndrome is also sometimes discussed in reference to other situations with similar tensions, such as battered person syndrome, rape cases, child abuse cases and bride kidnapping. The syndrome is named after the Norrmalmstorg robbery of Kreditbanken at Norrmalmstorg, Stockholm, Sweden, in which the bank robbers held bank employees hostage from August 23 to August 28 in 1973. In this case, the victims became emotionally attached to their victimizers, and even defended their captors after they were freed from their six-day ordeal..."
Now, given this useful psychological explanation for why these "mothers" so readily return to abuse, IS NO EXCUSE TO RETURN THE CHILD- VICTIMS TO THEIR ABUSERS! These children are hostages for life and should be given the option of choice! I applaud TCPS!
"Stockholm syndrome is a psychological response sometimes seen in an abducted hostage, in which the hostage shows signs of loyalty to the hostage-taker, regardless of the danger (or at least risk) in which the hostage has been placed. Stockholm syndrome is also sometimes discussed in reference to other situations with similar tensions, such as battered person syndrome, rape cases, child abuse cases and bride kidnapping. The syndrome is named after the Norrmalmstorg robbery of Kreditbanken at Norrmalmstorg, Stockholm, Sweden, in which the bank robbers held bank employees hostage from August 23 to August 28 in 1973. In this case, the victims became emotionally attached to their victimizers, and even defended their captors after they were freed from their six-day ordeal..."
Now, given this useful psychological explanation for why these "mothers" so readily return to abuse, IS NO EXCUSE TO RETURN THE CHILD- VICTIMS TO THEIR ABUSERS! These children are hostages for life and should be given the option of choice! I applaud TCPS!
Remember a few things | 2:16 p.m. April 16, 2008
First if you have followed the story the Sherriff stated that he has had a
contact inside the compound for 4 years giving him information about the going
ons inside. SO no it's not a storm the gates and run in weapons blazing
they've done the work. Second if you want to talk religious freedom, maybe
we should examine this idea, just claiming this is my right because of my
religion doesn't fly with me. I just see it now someone murders another
person and states they did it as part of the religion. Are they innocent of any
crime? I doubt it. Some religions do this already, if you change religious
affiliation you'll be killed by those of your former religion. The
authorities went in because someone called stating they were being abused. If
this church is so upstanding than why were they hiding the children as the
authorities came in? The sherriff also stated the adults of the compound were
moving the children from house to house trying to keep them from being taken. If
they have nothing to hide than allow the children to go and that will make the
return that much faster.
To the FLDS | 2:25 p.m. April 16, 2008
Amazing how many names are obviously the same FLDS poster. You don't even
change your style of English.
Same insults, over and over.
Try the off button.
Same insults, over and over.
Try the off button.
Sugar Momma | 2:20 p.m. April 16, 2008
The article said that the CPS really believed they had a strong case. I'm
really curious to see what evidence they have in addition to that one phone
call.
Though the thought of foster care homes as these childrens' destination makes me twitch. I hope they at least let the mothers who are minors stay with their children, since legally and technically, they are victims, too.
On that note, in this little YFZ Taliban, ALL of the women are technically victims, but they're just not educated nor self-aware enough to realize it.
Though the thought of foster care homes as these childrens' destination makes me twitch. I hope they at least let the mothers who are minors stay with their children, since legally and technically, they are victims, too.
On that note, in this little YFZ Taliban, ALL of the women are technically victims, but they're just not educated nor self-aware enough to realize it.
Jed | 2:41 p.m. April 16, 2008
I thought I'd come on this blog and read something interesting today...
Well, NO!
It's my birthday man!
It's my birthday man!
To the FLDS redux | 2:37 p.m. April 16, 2008
"Amazing how many names are obviously the same FLDS poster. You don't
even change your style of English.
Same insults, over and over.
Try the off button."
You've further refined my thinking. I've moved from: "Geeez, the LDS is really supportive of the FLDS" given the Deseret News forums to: "it must be the FLDS out in force to cause another short creek" to: it's only a handful of FLDSers posting as multiple people. There is NO WAY that so many good folks could overlook the documented atrocities of the convicted and jailed Warren Jeffs (including his father before him) and his creation.
Same insults, over and over.
Try the off button."
You've further refined my thinking. I've moved from: "Geeez, the LDS is really supportive of the FLDS" given the Deseret News forums to: "it must be the FLDS out in force to cause another short creek" to: it's only a handful of FLDSers posting as multiple people. There is NO WAY that so many good folks could overlook the documented atrocities of the convicted and jailed Warren Jeffs (including his father before him) and his creation.
Re: PENNVOTER | 2:52 p.m. April 16, 2008
Strange, you didn't include a RIGHT of the people to sexually abuse their
children.
Maybe it was further down the list and you just couldn't find it.
Maybe it was further down the list and you just couldn't find it.
JJ | 3:27 p.m. April 16, 2008
If thier had been a mass suicide, all of you that are saying how wrong the state
of Texas was for going in thier would be crying "where was the state before
this happened.
I am very optimistic that the truth will come out and everyone is going to feel really stupid for doubting the authorities in Texas
I am very optimistic that the truth will come out and everyone is going to feel really stupid for doubting the authorities in Texas
its_Chet | 3:28 p.m. April 16, 2008
You don�t have to be FLDS to be enraged about a fascist
state run amok, kidnapping innocent children from innocent mothers to the tune
of 416 children, and this on the basis of an allegation against one man, made by
a ghost.
You just have to not be evil enough to chuckle in glee at the thought of screaming, crying children being ripped by force and at gunpoint from their screaming, crying mothers, and taken to a reeducation camp by a conglomeration of hostile government agents and contemptuous religious bigots to be invasively and sexually examined, questioned, brainwashed, programmed, and all this in a strange place, surrounded by strange people, with no idea where their parents are or if they�ll ever see them again. In other words, hell on earth, an unspeakable nightmare. And these are children we�re talking about. All of them young enough to be scared and psychologically scarred for life as a result of this fascist escapade.
Even if every last accusation I have heard was true, what is being done to the children and their mothers now is WORSE.
But as long as the blessed government is cracking down and an unfashionable religion, it�s wonderful, right?
You just have to not be evil enough to chuckle in glee at the thought of screaming, crying children being ripped by force and at gunpoint from their screaming, crying mothers, and taken to a reeducation camp by a conglomeration of hostile government agents and contemptuous religious bigots to be invasively and sexually examined, questioned, brainwashed, programmed, and all this in a strange place, surrounded by strange people, with no idea where their parents are or if they�ll ever see them again. In other words, hell on earth, an unspeakable nightmare. And these are children we�re talking about. All of them young enough to be scared and psychologically scarred for life as a result of this fascist escapade.
Even if every last accusation I have heard was true, what is being done to the children and their mothers now is WORSE.
But as long as the blessed government is cracking down and an unfashionable religion, it�s wonderful, right?
wondering in idaho | 3:34 p.m. April 16, 2008
is it true that this cult was collecting welfare for the children? interesting
that this cult will take money/services from the heathen world, but not talk to
us). could anyone elaborate?
URAPERV | 3:35 p.m. April 16, 2008
You want to marry more than one wife because you think god wants you to do so,
fine, marry a wife who is willing and can make up her own mind.
The issue is not polygamy, it is child abuse. Don't be a sicko by forcing yourself on a kid who has been brainwashed...
Good job Texas for stepping in, the allegations had to be checked out. Shame on all of you who compare the Texas government who is trying to protect the children to Nazis. I have never heard a more lame comparison, brush up on your history or tone down your hyperbole.
The issue is not polygamy, it is child abuse. Don't be a sicko by forcing yourself on a kid who has been brainwashed...
Good job Texas for stepping in, the allegations had to be checked out. Shame on all of you who compare the Texas government who is trying to protect the children to Nazis. I have never heard a more lame comparison, brush up on your history or tone down your hyperbole.
Anonymous | 3:56 p.m. April 16, 2008
Isn't polygamy illegal in this country? Unfortunately, these people are
suffering the consequences of their illegal actions. Maybe if this was enforced
everywhere, people would be discouraged from practicing. Call me crazy!
Steve in Texas | 4:05 p.m. April 16, 2008
If people disagree with you then they must be the same poster? Wow, that's
arrogant! I won't have enough space to put all my feelings, so let me just
say this: I'm active LDS, returned missionary, my wife's a returned
missionary, I'm a Texan, I'm part Native American (Cherokee), so am
sensitive to everything from Missouri persecution in the early days of the
church, to the "Trail of Tears" where the Cherokee were forcibly
removed, to the atrocity (yes, atrocity) at Waco. It's the same MO (Modus
Operendi) every time. People think you're wierd, events are exaggerated,
law is disregarded, and group judgements result in forcible removal or murder.
The reason we have laws is to protect the INDIVIDUAL. Tell me how taking an
entire community's children is warranted from ONE alleged abuse call. If
you respond "they're brainwashed", you don't understand the
term. If you say they're all abused, or at risk, I'm betting
you'll find that's not at all the case. Speaking to the LDS here - How
quickly we all forget our own history! Investigate and lock up the perpetrators,
but to strip the entire community of all of their children is criminal.
Anonymous | 4:00 p.m. April 16, 2008
Shame on all agencies and groups involved in the kidnapping at gunpoint of 416
children in spite of the cries and tears of both women and children.
Shame on these people for acting like Nazis, thus abundantly earning the comparison.
Shame on anyone who automatically writes off all the men in that community (and they aren't all steretypical "dirty old men", which you can learn right here on this website). There is no excuse for sexism. At least some of those men are good fathers who didn't deserve to have their children abducted by a hostile government agency.
And shame on anyone who says shame on me after failing to see my side of it. Does that sound fair?
The kidnapping of every child as some bizarre result of an alleged allegation against a single grown man is sick and evil. It's fascist. Clearing out the whole community of children, ripping them from the families, is a good day's work for a Nazi concentration camp. I will not permit it to go uncriticized. That is my constitutional right, for whatever that's worth these days.
Shame on these people for acting like Nazis, thus abundantly earning the comparison.
Shame on anyone who automatically writes off all the men in that community (and they aren't all steretypical "dirty old men", which you can learn right here on this website). There is no excuse for sexism. At least some of those men are good fathers who didn't deserve to have their children abducted by a hostile government agency.
And shame on anyone who says shame on me after failing to see my side of it. Does that sound fair?
The kidnapping of every child as some bizarre result of an alleged allegation against a single grown man is sick and evil. It's fascist. Clearing out the whole community of children, ripping them from the families, is a good day's work for a Nazi concentration camp. I will not permit it to go uncriticized. That is my constitutional right, for whatever that's worth these days.
its_Chet | 4:11 p.m. April 16, 2008
Shame on Texas, or at least the portion of it involved in this. The governor
has given it his stamp of approval, so there's a lot of shame to go around
on.
I used to admire and respect Texas. I used to think the FLDS were simply creepy people who were doctrinally in error and causing problems as a result.
This fascist gestapo trick changes things a bit. I still disagree with the FLDS on a lot of things, and I say that any of them found to be committing statutory rape (especially in cases where the girl is coerced or pressured) should be punished. But kidnapping 416 children is the stupidest possible way to handle it. Things are worse now than ever could have been before.
It was not necessary to rip terrified, crying children from their terrified, crying mothers arms. It was not necesary to bring in machine guns and APCs and helicopters and armed thugs.
Whatever these kids went through before pales in comparison to what they're going through now.
Shame on Texas.
I used to admire and respect Texas. I used to think the FLDS were simply creepy people who were doctrinally in error and causing problems as a result.
This fascist gestapo trick changes things a bit. I still disagree with the FLDS on a lot of things, and I say that any of them found to be committing statutory rape (especially in cases where the girl is coerced or pressured) should be punished. But kidnapping 416 children is the stupidest possible way to handle it. Things are worse now than ever could have been before.
It was not necessary to rip terrified, crying children from their terrified, crying mothers arms. It was not necesary to bring in machine guns and APCs and helicopters and armed thugs.
Whatever these kids went through before pales in comparison to what they're going through now.
Shame on Texas.
It's all relative | 4:16 p.m. April 16, 2008
It's all relative. The group is being persecuted for its religious and
cultural differences from the rest of us.
They made the claims that all the children were abused or in danger of abuse simply from the tenets taught by their religious faith. When you use a group's religion to say they are child abusers, that sounds a lot like religious persecution.
They made the claims that all the children were abused or in danger of abuse simply from the tenets taught by their religious faith. When you use a group's religion to say they are child abusers, that sounds a lot like religious persecution.
It's all relavtive 2 | 4:23 p.m. April 16, 2008
Is it not interesting how Texas says it does not recognize polygamous marriages.
Nor does Texas recognize underage marriages. Yet in this case, the state of
Texas is recognizing both polygamy and underage marriages.
Further, in order to be legally married you need a state license. Since when did Texas issue licenses for underage girls to marry? Afterall, isn't that the only way for underage marriages to be even considered valid?
Fact is no license was issued. Therefore, therefore, the state of Texas cannot recognized either the polygamous marriages or the underage marriages. Hence the marriages are not legally valid and not prosecutable.
It looks like Texas has no idea what it is doing in this case and there is a lot of people being hurt because of government incompetence.
Further, in order to be legally married you need a state license. Since when did Texas issue licenses for underage girls to marry? Afterall, isn't that the only way for underage marriages to be even considered valid?
Fact is no license was issued. Therefore, therefore, the state of Texas cannot recognized either the polygamous marriages or the underage marriages. Hence the marriages are not legally valid and not prosecutable.
It looks like Texas has no idea what it is doing in this case and there is a lot of people being hurt because of government incompetence.
its_Chet | 4:30 p.m. April 16, 2008
Steve in Texas, I salute you.
And I apologize if anything I've said about Texas has rubbed you the wrong way.
I hope this fascist act by the state is not representative of the majority of Texans. I want to believe in Texas again.
And I apologize if anything I've said about Texas has rubbed you the wrong way.
I hope this fascist act by the state is not representative of the majority of Texans. I want to believe in Texas again.
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Rep. Drew Darby addresses the media during a briefing in San Angelo, Texas, Tuesday. "As a human being, none of us like human misery, nor do we like the abuse of children," he said. "We have a saying here: 'Don't mess with Texas.' I'm going to change it up and say, 'Don't mess with the children of Texas.'"
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Sure, sexual abuse is bad, but what has occured at the hands of Texas authorities this past week, is so much worse on so many levels.