Reader comments
Fallout from FLDS raid is intense
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Ken Baguley | 8:08 a.m. April 16, 2008
From the information we're getting, it doesn't sound like there is a
strong case...They're not disclosing all the facts, of course. If they
have, the law-enforcement is in deep yogurt...
ediddy | 8:10 a.m. April 16, 2008
To "truth" 7:40,
I am afraid my zealous defense of the 4th amendment will become seen as apologism for polygamy. It is not my right to support or condemn another's religious beliefs, but I wonder, using your reference to the report from an "ex member of the FLDS group", what the opinion would be of a disgruntled ex member of the Catholic church about the Catholic church? What would be the opinion of a disgruntled ex member of the Baptist church? We ought not ever base an opinion of someone on the opinion of his enemies. What do your enemies say about you? Is it all true??
I am afraid my zealous defense of the 4th amendment will become seen as apologism for polygamy. It is not my right to support or condemn another's religious beliefs, but I wonder, using your reference to the report from an "ex member of the FLDS group", what the opinion would be of a disgruntled ex member of the Catholic church about the Catholic church? What would be the opinion of a disgruntled ex member of the Baptist church? We ought not ever base an opinion of someone on the opinion of his enemies. What do your enemies say about you? Is it all true??
Condoners of abuse | 8:11 a.m. April 16, 2008
FLDS mothers may not be abusers, but they are condoners of abuse when they
encourage and pressure their underage daughters to marry much older men in the
name of religion. Texas is certainly justified in pulling the mothers away so
that the kids can speak freely.
I don't think we can judge Texas on their actions until they have presented their case.
I don't think we can judge Texas on their actions until they have presented their case.
Comments continue below
I doubt | 8:17 a.m. April 16, 2008
I doubt that anyone is saying that the culture of the FLDS is a good one. But
that is not ours (or the state of TExas) to judge. I have met famiies who
don't know who their daddys were, and had siblings from many daddies. I
don't agree with THAT lifestyle, but don't see that as a reason to
take kids away.
Personally? I think this is a bunch of over zelous texas 'Christian's', trying to do what THEY think is right, and not what is legal.
Personally? I think this is a bunch of over zelous texas 'Christian's', trying to do what THEY think is right, and not what is legal.
Green Truth | 8:14 a.m. April 16, 2008
Any child who lives in a home where parents smoke the environment IS INHERENTLY
ABUSIVE TO ALL THE CHILDREN THERE
Any child who lives in a home where the parents are obese the environment IS INHERENTLY ABUSIVE TO ALL THE CHILDREN THERE
Any child who lives in a home where the parents own guns the environment IS INHERENTLY ABUSIVE TO ALL THE CHILDREN THERE
Any child who lives in a home where the parents drive too fast the environment IS INHERENTLY ABUSIVE TO ALL THE CHILDREN THERE
Any child who lives in a home near a swimming pool, lake, pond, or canal the envoronment IS INHERENTLY ABUSIVE TO ALL THE CHILDREN THERE
My question: Where does the government draw the line? Is it possible that the government could take our children away for any of those reasons?
TEXAS went in and ripped children away from their parents, stormed their temple, cut off all communication, because of an "alledged" phone call about a man in another state, and the world seems OK with it.
Nothing could be worse than having your children taken.
TEXAS is not thinking of the children who are crying for their mothers and now with strangers!
Any child who lives in a home where the parents are obese the environment IS INHERENTLY ABUSIVE TO ALL THE CHILDREN THERE
Any child who lives in a home where the parents own guns the environment IS INHERENTLY ABUSIVE TO ALL THE CHILDREN THERE
Any child who lives in a home where the parents drive too fast the environment IS INHERENTLY ABUSIVE TO ALL THE CHILDREN THERE
Any child who lives in a home near a swimming pool, lake, pond, or canal the envoronment IS INHERENTLY ABUSIVE TO ALL THE CHILDREN THERE
My question: Where does the government draw the line? Is it possible that the government could take our children away for any of those reasons?
TEXAS went in and ripped children away from their parents, stormed their temple, cut off all communication, because of an "alledged" phone call about a man in another state, and the world seems OK with it.
Nothing could be worse than having your children taken.
TEXAS is not thinking of the children who are crying for their mothers and now with strangers!
To michaelh | 8:15 a.m. April 16, 2008
"Our Children are Our Children" So if you give birth to a child you
should be able to abuse that child and give it away to whomever you decide at an
age you decide. WOW that is spoken like a loyal FLDS member and I am sure Texas
will not miss you..
Gloria K. | 8:23 a.m. April 16, 2008
Where is the good ol' ACLU?
Lionheart | 8:20 a.m. April 16, 2008
Texas has the guts to break up these cabals and rid their state of it. When
these people get their kids back they will be on the road back to Utah where
child brides and old men are tolerated. Utah get your check book ready for the
welfare supported life-style of perverts.
What? | 8:26 a.m. April 16, 2008
Comparing themselves to the Jews, and the government to the Nazis? That is not
even an accurate comparison at all, I don't know where that logic came
from. The Jews weren't sexually abusing their children, (that I know of)
and that's not why the Nazis were taking them. Even if the Jews had been
saints, and wonderful parents, the Nazis would have taken them anyway. It's
not like the Nazis were looking out for the children's safety. The Nazis
were out for blood, the government is trying to protect innocent minors from
perverted old men. The children are much better off, I don't know where
that thinking came from.
Don't worry | 8:25 a.m. April 16, 2008
If there were democrats in office they probably would say, "oh the kids are
fine" and leave them there.
nantz | 8:26 a.m. April 16, 2008
400 plus children and not one coward father stepping up, answering to the media,
only brainwashed women. Are the guilty staying silent in hopes no one will
wonder? If their are true sex abused children, then there has to be someone that
is guilty of these crimes. Time will tell....and I can only pray for the 16 year
old that alerted athorities, as she is most likely, bound and gagged in some
hole in arizona or utah, were this is widely accepted!!!
Anonymous | 8:29 a.m. April 16, 2008
Child abuse must not be tolerated. And what do you call terrorizing little
children by heavily armed SWAT teams forcing them away from their mothers,taking
them to a strange location where they undergo frightening physical examinations
and endless questioning like they are criminals? This experience could
traumatize them far beyond anything suspected of happening to them previously.
What happened to parental rights? The chilren are separated from grieving
mothers before any abuse is proven and CPS says they plan to keep it that way.
Have they no mercy for the frightened little ones torn from those they love and
isolated from a famliar way of life? At least they haven't become burnt
offerings like the children of Waco but if this governamental abuse is tolerated
for FLDS children could yours be next?
Frustrated | 8:32 a.m. April 16, 2008
What are we angry about?? Kids being torn from their mothers arms?? Remember
those kids don't have a naturally strong tie to 'mom', since that
term is fluid. They are each raised by many women - so no one woman can make a
stronger claim over any one child than another.
All of you who scream - where's the abuse?? It's all over. Do you know about the people that Jeff's kicked out of his compound and then 're-assigned' the remaining spouse or spouses to others?? Isn't that abuse and isn't that pretty disgusting?? It's not just about one teen girl who may have made a phone call. It's about all the women and children who are so beyond comprehension, they don't even know they are being abused. Help them all.
All of you who scream - where's the abuse?? It's all over. Do you know about the people that Jeff's kicked out of his compound and then 're-assigned' the remaining spouse or spouses to others?? Isn't that abuse and isn't that pretty disgusting?? It's not just about one teen girl who may have made a phone call. It's about all the women and children who are so beyond comprehension, they don't even know they are being abused. Help them all.
A voice of reason in Texas | 8:32 a.m. April 16, 2008
Here are some problems with some of the arguments made here.
1st, this is NOT like the Nazi's! The Nazi's wanted a pure race and wanted to get rid of (kill) those they didn't like or agree with. Anyone who compares the two situations are nuts. Whether they are right or wrong, the intent isn't to kill them.
2nd, to those who compare it to rounding up all parents of sexually active teens: How can you not see a difference between a child who chooses to be sexually active (which is bad), and a child whose parents groom them and force them to be sexually active with a forced marriage (legal or "spiritual")? And... if the state does find out an adult is sexually active with a teen they DO act!
3rd, I hesitantly support the raid but they better end up being able to prove the merits of it later (since we can't know all the facts yet.) But, the scope of the raid is troubling on many fronts.
4th, those who think the LDS church supports the FLDS or are involved in this are ignorant or have an axe to grind.
I'm glad I live in Texas!
1st, this is NOT like the Nazi's! The Nazi's wanted a pure race and wanted to get rid of (kill) those they didn't like or agree with. Anyone who compares the two situations are nuts. Whether they are right or wrong, the intent isn't to kill them.
2nd, to those who compare it to rounding up all parents of sexually active teens: How can you not see a difference between a child who chooses to be sexually active (which is bad), and a child whose parents groom them and force them to be sexually active with a forced marriage (legal or "spiritual")? And... if the state does find out an adult is sexually active with a teen they DO act!
3rd, I hesitantly support the raid but they better end up being able to prove the merits of it later (since we can't know all the facts yet.) But, the scope of the raid is troubling on many fronts.
4th, those who think the LDS church supports the FLDS or are involved in this are ignorant or have an axe to grind.
I'm glad I live in Texas!
Bill | 8:42 a.m. April 16, 2008
Certainly 12 days is sufficient time for criminal charges to be processed
against any adult guilty of harming any of the 400+ children. As of this
writing no criminal charges have been filed. This would point to a lack of
evidence on the part of the state of Texas.
The foster care system in Texas is infamous. There are many times when children placed in foster care are subjected to further abuse. These children are about to be "placed" all over Texas.
What is being run into here is small town politics; the actual facts are secondary to rumor or a good lie. If this action is being taken due to polygamy, then prosecute polygamy, leave the children alone unless wrong doing is found involving them.
The tactics used to question these children should come into close scrutiny. Certainly more time will be required than the five minutes per child proposed by the good judge.
Please don't blame the people of Texas with what has happened here. Some of us have known for a long time that things are amiss in Texas. It is seldom that this is brought to the attention of others.
The foster care system in Texas is infamous. There are many times when children placed in foster care are subjected to further abuse. These children are about to be "placed" all over Texas.
What is being run into here is small town politics; the actual facts are secondary to rumor or a good lie. If this action is being taken due to polygamy, then prosecute polygamy, leave the children alone unless wrong doing is found involving them.
The tactics used to question these children should come into close scrutiny. Certainly more time will be required than the five minutes per child proposed by the good judge.
Please don't blame the people of Texas with what has happened here. Some of us have known for a long time that things are amiss in Texas. It is seldom that this is brought to the attention of others.
Anonymous | 8:53 a.m. April 16, 2008
Religious wackos, polygamy, gun-slinging-warmongers, gotta love the USA!
RELIGION is no excuse | 8:48 a.m. April 16, 2008
Everyone is free to believe what they will.
Everyone is free to practice religious beliefs if they do not harm or violate the rights of others or break the law.
The violations and abuses these children have suffered are in no way excusable in the name of religion.
Too many posters here seem willing to allow people to get away with anything if it is excused by religion.
Sorry, that doesn'y fly.
Everyone is free to practice religious beliefs if they do not harm or violate the rights of others or break the law.
The violations and abuses these children have suffered are in no way excusable in the name of religion.
Too many posters here seem willing to allow people to get away with anything if it is excused by religion.
Sorry, that doesn'y fly.
SCR | 8:49 a.m. April 16, 2008
This is an absolute PR spin attempt by the over zealous State of Texas officials
who are now trying to cover up for their monumental error. Sure, these kids
come from a strange background, and there are likely some who have been abused.
But is there a strong likelihood that every single child has been abused to the
point that they can take them away from their mothers? Utterly ridiculous and
very scary at the same time.
Dave | 8:52 a.m. April 16, 2008
Where is the fall out? All we got was the Texas Point of View in this article...
THINK | 8:53 a.m. April 16, 2008
Please read the other article in the DN today, "Reader comments: Ex-FLDS
members try to counter claims of persecution". This raid wasn't out
of the blue. Warren Jeffs has been in the news for years. You can't abuse
children in the name of religion. Read the responses to the other referenced
article. Most of them get it.
Robert Allen | 8:54 a.m. April 16, 2008
Although it wouldn't be any more legal than taking the innocent children
away from their mothers, I would feel a lot better if the Texas authorities had
gone on the ranch, rounded up all the adult men, and put them in custody for
questioning. This would make much more sense than leaving the perpetrators free
on the ranch and removing -- indeed, punishing -- the innocent children.
Trust me | 8:57 a.m. April 16, 2008
"I'm from the government and I'm here to help you".
Another Texan authoritarian used innuendo and gossip to invade Iraq, and we're still paying for that one.
Is it a Texan thing?
Another Texan authoritarian used innuendo and gossip to invade Iraq, and we're still paying for that one.
Is it a Texan thing?
Anonymous | 8:59 a.m. April 16, 2008
File Rico charges aginst the FLDS church as an ongoing criminal enterprise and
prosecute all adults as accessories.
Brandon | 9:08 a.m. April 16, 2008
All the women were informed of their rights and the procedures about to occur
� that if a judge Thursday agreed that the children would
remain in state care, they would be placed in foster homes, the officials said.
"We believe that children who are victims of abuse or neglect, and particularly victims at the hands of their own parents, certainly are going to feel safer to tell their story when they don't have a parent there that's coaching them with how to respond," Meisner said.
In court Monday, CPS attorneys and some of the hundreds of lawyers volunteering from across Texas to represent the children described stonewalling by the children and their mothers against attempts to get information about possible abuse.
Children and mothers changed their names, and the women passed children back and forth, claiming to be mothers of different children every time CPS interviewed them, according to testimony.
Now, do you see where the problem is? If not, you never will.
"We believe that children who are victims of abuse or neglect, and particularly victims at the hands of their own parents, certainly are going to feel safer to tell their story when they don't have a parent there that's coaching them with how to respond," Meisner said.
In court Monday, CPS attorneys and some of the hundreds of lawyers volunteering from across Texas to represent the children described stonewalling by the children and their mothers against attempts to get information about possible abuse.
Children and mothers changed their names, and the women passed children back and forth, claiming to be mothers of different children every time CPS interviewed them, according to testimony.
Now, do you see where the problem is? If not, you never will.
To Trust me | 9:19 a.m. April 16, 2008
I believe it's a quote from Ronald Reagan, i.e. a Californian.
about face! | 9:19 a.m. April 16, 2008
I think it is hilarious to see our neoconservative brothers and sisters who are
so against this, that and everything else, make an about face and get liberal
when it comes to this issue.
The non-Rush O'Hannity definition of liberal:
Live and let live.
The non-Rush O'Hannity definition of liberal:
Live and let live.
Anonymous | 9:17 a.m. April 16, 2008
Texas did the right thing. It's Utah and Arizona that should be ashamed
that this lifestyle has been growing over the past century.
Sad! and Shameful!!! | 9:18 a.m. April 16, 2008
As a father, this is a very sad story. Shame on Texas, and shame on the United
States of America!
Red | 9:20 a.m. April 16, 2008
Soldiergal: Technically, you're right that the women and children
haven't been arrested. Nevertheless, they were -- and the children still
are -- in what amounts to a minimum security prison. They get up and go to bed
when the jailers say. Ditto for eating, bathing, or any other activity. They are
held incommunicado, and the guns of their jailers are pointed in, to control --
not out, to protect.
It's a well established principle that kids -- especially young kids -- are not to be interrogated without a parent present. In this case, a guardian ad litem will probably serve the purpose.
As for "allegations (plural) of abuse:" I only know of one allegation coming from outside the Texas bureaucracy, and it doesn't involve any of the children or adults that were swept into prison by the SWAT team/snipers/armored vehicles of the Peoples' Republic of Texas.
It's a well established principle that kids -- especially young kids -- are not to be interrogated without a parent present. In this case, a guardian ad litem will probably serve the purpose.
As for "allegations (plural) of abuse:" I only know of one allegation coming from outside the Texas bureaucracy, and it doesn't involve any of the children or adults that were swept into prison by the SWAT team/snipers/armored vehicles of the Peoples' Republic of Texas.
no religion here | 9:22 a.m. April 16, 2008
The FLDS compound is not a religious institution, it is a "puppy farm"
designed to breed and raise future sexual victims for the predator operators.
From their birth (not recorded, by the way) these children are isolated from society and indoctrinated to make them pliable victims of underage "marriage" (also not recorded).
All of it out of the publis eye, births and "marriages" not even legally recorded. It is Nazi-scale in it's monstrousness.
Society has a responsibility to intervene and rescue these children (and frankly, the pathetic parents who were raised the same way and think it is ok)
The only OUTRAGE is that THIS DIDN"T HAPPEN YEARS AGO.
There is a lot of collective guilt and responsibility out there for allowing this to go on so long.
From their birth (not recorded, by the way) these children are isolated from society and indoctrinated to make them pliable victims of underage "marriage" (also not recorded).
All of it out of the publis eye, births and "marriages" not even legally recorded. It is Nazi-scale in it's monstrousness.
Society has a responsibility to intervene and rescue these children (and frankly, the pathetic parents who were raised the same way and think it is ok)
The only OUTRAGE is that THIS DIDN"T HAPPEN YEARS AGO.
There is a lot of collective guilt and responsibility out there for allowing this to go on so long.
Matt in Tucson | 9:23 a.m. April 16, 2008
I listened to Michael Savage for a few minutes last night, and he was bashing
this abuse of power. Are you going to say he is FLDS?
Granny T. | 9:26 a.m. April 16, 2008
I really don't know if there has been great abuse on the Texas ranch. That
certainly hasn�t been proven. BUT... as an ex foster
mother I bet that all little foster kids in the world wish they were so
Neglected!!...They have a mom that is not drunk or drugged up that is there to
feed them breakfast, lunch and dinner, to love them and tuck them into bed at
night. They probably have a mom whose only career is to take care of her
children. Texas get a clue, you've made a horrible mistake to do the un
American thing you have done. I hope legally these people kick their booties!!
anon | 9:32 a.m. April 16, 2008
Utah broke up the property stranglehold the FLDS leadership had. To say that
Utah tolerates this is nonsense. Utah is systematically destroying the power
structure which allows FLDS leadership to control the women, children, and many
of the men who otherwise might not act this way if every part of their lives
were not controlled. These are women with 50 yrs. of indoctrination, who will
surrender their daughters to their leaders when asked. The men who do not comply
have their families "reassigned" to another more righteous man. They
follow orders to abandon their sons on a street corner if the boy has been
deemed unworthy. They do not control their own homes, owning no property. If
they choose to remain in that coercive environment, what choice do the Texas
authorities have but to remove the children? If a parent's first loyalty is
to an group with pseudo-governmental control over their children, the state has
every right to step in and assert its control. We are a nation with individual
rights. When loyalty to a group encroaches upon those rights, the state should
step in to protect individual rights, especially of children.
Send the kids to boarding school | 9:41 a.m. April 16, 2008
Sounds like how the U.S. government rounded up the American Indians and forced
the children into boarding school. Cut the childrens hair, made them not speak
their native tongue, the children could not pray like they were taught. The
parents were not allowed to conduct their traditional teachings. Do not worry,
the U.S. government and the State of Texas know what they are doing! Look at
how successful the American Indians are today! These FLDS children will be
sucessful later in life due to the positive actions of these government
officials.
Lionheart | 9:37 a.m. April 16, 2008
I'm not sure these children know who their biological mother is. After
weaning a child is raised by numerous women, the young mother is returned to
breeding.
Anonymous | 9:43 a.m. April 16, 2008
When are the wacky right-wingers going to understand that mainstream America is
not tolerant of sex cults?
Robert T. B. | 9:40 a.m. April 16, 2008
I cannot see that there is anything religious about a group of men using
Polygamy for their nonreligious perversions. I think it's horrible, AWFUL
and EVIL that FLDS men would use such worldly conduct to control women and
children. What kind of heathenishly society is this?
I hope the government of Texas has enough courage to clean up this mess once and for all.
I hope the government of Texas has enough courage to clean up this mess once and for all.
Independent | 9:42 a.m. April 16, 2008
This is kind of funny that the Texas Neoconservatives are not getting much
support from the Utah Neoconservatives. I thought that all Utah
Neoconservatives supported the New Neoconserative Big Government.
Lionheart | 9:43 a.m. April 16, 2008
To anon of 9:32, great insightful post. If you are right about the moves Utah
is making against this travesty, then perhaps, the cults will be disbanded. Your
post may explain why the FLDS went to Texas in the first place, protect their
property.
thanks | 9:44 a.m. April 16, 2008
Thank You Deseret News
for giving us a days respite from photos and video of the three fake sobbing mothers
seriously.
for giving us a days respite from photos and video of the three fake sobbing mothers
seriously.
Disbelief | 9:44 a.m. April 16, 2008
It's an embarrasement to good human nature! Texas give the children back
immediately, their not your children! They belong to our Heavenly Father, not
you and their intended to be with their mothers who nurture and care for them.
Texas has gone beyond the law, beyond good!
Texas has gone beyond the law, beyond good!
Re: about face! | 9:49 a.m. April 16, 2008
Really? From what I've read here, it's mostly liberals who are
complaining about civil rights abuses.
I'm one of your so-called neoconservatives and I fully support Texas stepping in to investigate and stop this child abuse.
ANYBODY who argues that it would be better to leave the kids to be sexually abused by their parents and church leaders, rather than to traumatize them by removing them from potential abuse, really DOESN'T CARE about the kids.
Some people need to get a clue!
Institutionalized sexual abuse through forced marriages of underage girls -- promoted and condoned in a closed society -- isn't even remotely the same as several teenage girls living in the same neighborhood getting pregnant because they are sexually "active".
All this talk about how Texas authorities acted in a Nazi-like manner in removing potentially abused kids from their homes is ridiculous. Texas is doing the best they can in a very difficult situation.
If only a few cases of child abuse are proven, and most of the kids are safe to return to their families, so be it. If Texas is going to err, however, let it be on the side of protecting the kids from abuse.
I'm one of your so-called neoconservatives and I fully support Texas stepping in to investigate and stop this child abuse.
ANYBODY who argues that it would be better to leave the kids to be sexually abused by their parents and church leaders, rather than to traumatize them by removing them from potential abuse, really DOESN'T CARE about the kids.
Some people need to get a clue!
Institutionalized sexual abuse through forced marriages of underage girls -- promoted and condoned in a closed society -- isn't even remotely the same as several teenage girls living in the same neighborhood getting pregnant because they are sexually "active".
All this talk about how Texas authorities acted in a Nazi-like manner in removing potentially abused kids from their homes is ridiculous. Texas is doing the best they can in a very difficult situation.
If only a few cases of child abuse are proven, and most of the kids are safe to return to their families, so be it. If Texas is going to err, however, let it be on the side of protecting the kids from abuse.
David J. | 9:52 a.m. April 16, 2008
Re Lionheart,
I'm certain most of those young girls probably have to sneak around with the younger guys. However, It wouldn't matter none if they did because none of them are legally married. So who's to say who the father's of these children might be. Most of those old men are too old to produce anymore children, unless however they are all on and getting Viagra from somewhere. And with their kind of thinking, I would not doubt that in the least.
I'm certain most of those young girls probably have to sneak around with the younger guys. However, It wouldn't matter none if they did because none of them are legally married. So who's to say who the father's of these children might be. Most of those old men are too old to produce anymore children, unless however they are all on and getting Viagra from somewhere. And with their kind of thinking, I would not doubt that in the least.
jewel | 9:59 a.m. April 16, 2008
These kids are being brain washed and not being taught that they can have a
loving one wife one husband marriage. to keep everything in there family secret.
Do they get any one on one time with there parents? I wonder how many will go to
college?
Franz | 10:00 a.m. April 16, 2008
I'm torn. I agree that the parents do have rights, and trust that in the
end right will prevail. The problem is that I don't know who is right with
the limited information we have available. I don't think most of you do
either, but that hasn't stopped anyone from stating their opinion.
I wonder, do these kids know who their parents are? I agree with Soldiergal: How can these moms claim to be so crushed at being separated from their children, but feel O.K. handing their 13 or 14 year-old daughters over to be "married" to older men, and their sons are kicked out to eliminate competition with the old guys.
I wonder, do these kids know who their parents are? I agree with Soldiergal: How can these moms claim to be so crushed at being separated from their children, but feel O.K. handing their 13 or 14 year-old daughters over to be "married" to older men, and their sons are kicked out to eliminate competition with the old guys.
Daniel | 10:01 a.m. April 16, 2008
"Thank You Deseret News
for giving us a days respite from photos and video of the three fake sobbing mothers
seriously."
I love this attitude. "The evidence we can plainly see is all false, and the evidence that has not been found and has only been alleged by people who have never had any kind of contact with it is all true." I only hope that the court system in Texas doesn't subscribe to this brand of a priori justice.
for giving us a days respite from photos and video of the three fake sobbing mothers
seriously."
I love this attitude. "The evidence we can plainly see is all false, and the evidence that has not been found and has only been alleged by people who have never had any kind of contact with it is all true." I only hope that the court system in Texas doesn't subscribe to this brand of a priori justice.
Green Truth? | 9:58 a.m. April 16, 2008
"Nothing could be worse than having your children taken."
If you're planning on handing your 13 y/o daughter to some 50 y/o man with the blessing your clergyman, I hope they come and take your children away too.
In answer to your question, you draw the line when the POTENTIAL ABUSE, is AGAINST the LAW!
Texas was protecting the kids from POTENTIAL SEXUAL ABUSE, which most rational people would consider AGAINST the LAW.
If you're planning on handing your 13 y/o daughter to some 50 y/o man with the blessing your clergyman, I hope they come and take your children away too.
In answer to your question, you draw the line when the POTENTIAL ABUSE, is AGAINST the LAW!
Texas was protecting the kids from POTENTIAL SEXUAL ABUSE, which most rational people would consider AGAINST the LAW.
Selective outrage | 10:00 a.m. April 16, 2008
This isn't a left or right politics issue. Remember, both fascists and
communists have jack-booted thugs that come in the night to drag away the
dissenters (and steal their babies).
I keep hearing insults about dumb "right wingers", but isn't it the left that normally has a near-neurosis about all things Orwellian? Rounded up and herded into camps? Or does that concern only apply to non-white, non-Christian victims?
I keep hearing insults about dumb "right wingers", but isn't it the left that normally has a near-neurosis about all things Orwellian? Rounded up and herded into camps? Or does that concern only apply to non-white, non-Christian victims?
jim | 10:02 a.m. April 16, 2008
All one has to do is read Carolyn Jessup's book, a real eye opener about
this cult. Nearly all of the children have seen abuse from the so called
Prophet's, including Jeff's himself. Carolyn was the only woman to
escape with her children, at the time the book was written. Would just suggest
anyone interested in this case to read this documentary of her life and the
other wives of her Ex husband, Merrill Jessup, a cruel human being.
jpmaxwell | 10:06 a.m. April 16, 2008
I have watched the mom several times on t.v. - recently this morning on
"Good Morning, America." It infuriates me that every time they are
asked, "how young the girls can marry." One mom yesterday was asked
how she felt about a young daughter marrying a 40 or 50 year old man and she
sweetly replied, she only wanted her child to be married to a good man - that is
her goal. Why are the men not being interviewed - they have been in the
background watching their Stepford wives being questioned. Bottom line - it is
not ok for a l4 year old or even younger to have sex with a man in his 30, 40,
50, or hell knows how old!
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Rep. Drew Darby addresses the media during a briefing in San Angelo, Texas, Tuesday. "As a human being, none of us like human misery, nor do we like the abuse of children," he said. "We have a saying here: 'Don't mess with Texas.' I'm going to change it up and say, 'Don't mess with the children of Texas.'"
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