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Heavily armed operation pleased officials, not FLDS
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lumin | 10:10 a.m. April 16, 2008
All of the people here in defense of the Texas Raid use words against the FLDS
like, "I am sure they...", "They probably...", "They
deserve it...", "In time we will find evidence...".
What an OUTRAGE! What happened to due process and innocence until proven guilt? These are words the Nazis used to defend themselves when taking away the Jews. Speculation is just speculation - NOT proof of guild.
I've heard a few of you say that after the investigation is through they will find the evidence they need. You're probably right. If you went and arrested 600 people in ANY community, you're bound to find some child abuse. Does this give the state the right to arrest entire communities each and every time they get a new tip? Absolutely not.
What an OUTRAGE! What happened to due process and innocence until proven guilt? These are words the Nazis used to defend themselves when taking away the Jews. Speculation is just speculation - NOT proof of guild.
I've heard a few of you say that after the investigation is through they will find the evidence they need. You're probably right. If you went and arrested 600 people in ANY community, you're bound to find some child abuse. Does this give the state the right to arrest entire communities each and every time they get a new tip? Absolutely not.
mamacita | 10:13 a.m. April 16, 2008
RIGHT ON, Proud Texas wife!!! I got tears in my eyes reading your post.
RIGHT ON!!!!!
THANK GOD Warren Jeffs was foolish enough to send his flock to Texas. He couldn't have sent them to a better place to be rescued from the FLDS HELL!!
RIGHT ON!!!!!
THANK GOD Warren Jeffs was foolish enough to send his flock to Texas. He couldn't have sent them to a better place to be rescued from the FLDS HELL!!
Comments continue below
mamacita | 10:22 a.m. April 16, 2008
LUMIN: When the call from the teenage girl came in, Texas was bound by LAW to
investigate. When the police arrived and saw all the pregnant teenagers, they
had all the evidence they needed to get additional search warrants and take the
kids out.
End of story. Texas followed the law. This event was four years in the making, the girl's phone call was just the fire that lit the fuse.
Texas did a good job. And since the whole country is watching this, I'm sure they will continue to follow the letter of the law.
Children's rights were being abused, let's never forget that.
End of story. Texas followed the law. This event was four years in the making, the girl's phone call was just the fire that lit the fuse.
Texas did a good job. And since the whole country is watching this, I'm sure they will continue to follow the letter of the law.
Children's rights were being abused, let's never forget that.
Carlos | 10:28 a.m. April 16, 2008
Mamacita, It will be better soon huh? I love your thinking..
$$$$$ | 10:33 a.m. April 16, 2008
I smell big time lawsuits..........
Thomas | 10:28 a.m. April 16, 2008
There are statistics that indicate that one in four girls living with a mother
who lives with a live-in boyfriend is sexually abused at home.
Does this justify government in seizing all children of women who are "living in sin"?
Does this justify government in seizing all children of women who are "living in sin"?
CA | 10:52 a.m. April 16, 2008
Yes, lets sue the FLDS for scamming the taxpayers out of all that welfare money!
ktg | 10:53 a.m. April 16, 2008
To Big Al:
I understand where you are coming from. I'm sorry for the losses in your own life. We all suffer loss and some more than others. BUT . . .if these children are being abused; and the state has evidence of it . . . these children who couldn't defend themselves, needed someone to stand up for them. Better err on the side of safety than to let things go on and innocent children continue to be hurt . . . then we are all accountable to God for allowing it to happen. They are precious in his sight. If one child is being hurt then others can be also so they all need to be protected.
I understand where you are coming from. I'm sorry for the losses in your own life. We all suffer loss and some more than others. BUT . . .if these children are being abused; and the state has evidence of it . . . these children who couldn't defend themselves, needed someone to stand up for them. Better err on the side of safety than to let things go on and innocent children continue to be hurt . . . then we are all accountable to God for allowing it to happen. They are precious in his sight. If one child is being hurt then others can be also so they all need to be protected.
Re: Robert | 10:58 a.m. April 16, 2008
I totally agree.
It's inexcuseable that Texas had a plan in place to organize all the different law enforcement agencies it took to raid the compound. Texas had no business acting on an anonymous phone call to investigate a possible crime of sexual abuse, especially one involving an innocent 16 y/o girl. Texas had no right to try to prevent other children at the compound from being abused.
Shame on Texas for caring more about protecting innocent children than about due process technicalities.
Oh wait, Texas also thought about due process; there's a court hearing tomorrow to discuss the next step in the legal process.
It's inexcuseable that Texas had a plan in place to organize all the different law enforcement agencies it took to raid the compound. Texas had no business acting on an anonymous phone call to investigate a possible crime of sexual abuse, especially one involving an innocent 16 y/o girl. Texas had no right to try to prevent other children at the compound from being abused.
Shame on Texas for caring more about protecting innocent children than about due process technicalities.
Oh wait, Texas also thought about due process; there's a court hearing tomorrow to discuss the next step in the legal process.
Re: $$$$$ | 11:05 a.m. April 16, 2008
That's one of the biggest problems with our society, frivolous lawsuits.
The only people who should be sued in this case are the deviant men who have ruined the lives of thousands of women and children with their lies.
The only people who should be sued in this case are the deviant men who have ruined the lives of thousands of women and children with their lies.
stephen | 11:13 a.m. April 16, 2008
When the call from the teenage girl came in, Texas was bound by LAW to
investigate. When the police arrived and saw all the pregnant teenagers, they
had all the evidence they needed to get additional search warrants and take the
kids out.
----------------------------------------
This is a rather quaint way of viewing events, but it is more accurate to note that various Texas authorities have stated in no uncertain terms that they were looking for an opportunity to go after the sect. Moreover, one hardly needs a helicopter, a SWAT team, and armored personnel carrier to check into a single allegation of child abuse.
This wasn't so much a response to a call as it was a premeditated raid in search of a pretext.
----------------------------------------
This is a rather quaint way of viewing events, but it is more accurate to note that various Texas authorities have stated in no uncertain terms that they were looking for an opportunity to go after the sect. Moreover, one hardly needs a helicopter, a SWAT team, and armored personnel carrier to check into a single allegation of child abuse.
This wasn't so much a response to a call as it was a premeditated raid in search of a pretext.
Karl Marx | 11:13 a.m. April 16, 2008
Notice to all American citizens (particularly those living in Texas):
Your children are yours no longer. They belong to us, and we will graciously allow you to retain them until such time, should it occur, that we see fit to remove them. If you have unpopular religious beliefs, and an accuser for some offense or another can be found, we will likely come get the children. Please have milk and cookies waiting for the armed men who come to take the children away. Be advised that if you resist, we will burn down your house with you in it.
What were your children will be taken to reeducation camps, where we will have government approved religionists on hand to indoctrinate them and make them more acceptable members of society. There is no longer any place in America for unorthodox religious beliefs.
Guilt will be for us to decide, and evidence is not required, nor will it be required of the government that its responses must be proportionate to the accusations made against you. Expect no mercy (or justice, for that matter), but provide no resistance. You have now been warned.
Thank you for your cooperation.
Your children are yours no longer. They belong to us, and we will graciously allow you to retain them until such time, should it occur, that we see fit to remove them. If you have unpopular religious beliefs, and an accuser for some offense or another can be found, we will likely come get the children. Please have milk and cookies waiting for the armed men who come to take the children away. Be advised that if you resist, we will burn down your house with you in it.
What were your children will be taken to reeducation camps, where we will have government approved religionists on hand to indoctrinate them and make them more acceptable members of society. There is no longer any place in America for unorthodox religious beliefs.
Guilt will be for us to decide, and evidence is not required, nor will it be required of the government that its responses must be proportionate to the accusations made against you. Expect no mercy (or justice, for that matter), but provide no resistance. You have now been warned.
Thank you for your cooperation.
Great headline | 11:22 a.m. April 16, 2008
"Heavily armed operation pleased officials, not FLDS"
You mean the FLDS wasn't happy their stockade was raided? Really? What a shock!
As for many of these comments - it's embarrassing enough that Utah didn't have the fortitude to clean up this nest of vipers when they were here, now we have all their fellow travelers tut-tutting because the FLDS was stupid enough to go somewhere where the people DO have the fortitude to not abide child abuse. Hopefully next time they'll move someplace where their worldview is embraced .. maybe Saudi Arabia, or Libya.
You mean the FLDS wasn't happy their stockade was raided? Really? What a shock!
As for many of these comments - it's embarrassing enough that Utah didn't have the fortitude to clean up this nest of vipers when they were here, now we have all their fellow travelers tut-tutting because the FLDS was stupid enough to go somewhere where the people DO have the fortitude to not abide child abuse. Hopefully next time they'll move someplace where their worldview is embraced .. maybe Saudi Arabia, or Libya.
Re: Thomas | 11:28 a.m. April 16, 2008
What you are suggesting is called profiling and is against the law.
Authorities have to have probable cause on a case-by-case basis that a crime is being or has been committed before taking action.
Honestly, most of the scenarios that people are trying to use to critize how this case has been handled, don't even come close to being applicable to this case.
It would be nice if people would use just a smidgeon of common sense when making up their scenarios.
Statistically, people who drink are more likely to drive drunk. Based on the scenarios that many people have been posting, we should arrest every single person exiting a bar or party on suspicion of drunk driving?
Authorities have to have probable cause on a case-by-case basis that a crime is being or has been committed before taking action.
Honestly, most of the scenarios that people are trying to use to critize how this case has been handled, don't even come close to being applicable to this case.
It would be nice if people would use just a smidgeon of common sense when making up their scenarios.
Statistically, people who drink are more likely to drive drunk. Based on the scenarios that many people have been posting, we should arrest every single person exiting a bar or party on suspicion of drunk driving?
Re: premeditated raid | 11:41 a.m. April 16, 2008
Even if it was a premeditated raid in search of a pretext, if authorities found
evidence of child abuse, they were required to protect the kids from further
abuse.
If Texas can't prove that the kids were being abused or at risk of being abused, then Texas is obligated to return the kids to their families.
If Texas can prove that the kids were being abused or at risk of being abused, then the kids have a RIGHT to be protected by the state from further abuse.
If Texas can't prove that the kids were being abused or at risk of being abused, then Texas is obligated to return the kids to their families.
If Texas can prove that the kids were being abused or at risk of being abused, then the kids have a RIGHT to be protected by the state from further abuse.
Oklahoma Mormon | 11:43 a.m. April 16, 2008
This is America and last I heard we had freedom of religion. If the government
gets away with this, nothing will be safe from their prying eyes. I, for one,
will increase both food and ammunition storage. I am not a pacifist by any
means. My property right now is posted against tresspassing by any kind of
government worker.
its_Chet | 11:50 a.m. April 16, 2008
CPS cheerleaders, please build a credible case.
NO reliance on the diatribes of embittered former FLDS members with an ax to grind. History is replete with examples of people leaving a society and turning against it and lying about it in order to harm it as much as possible.
NO sexist muttering about �men� this and �man� that. It may be that there's a man in that group of 600 people that can be nailed for statutory rape. Locate a brain and discover the reality that this does not automatically make every other male over the age of (fill in the blank) a pedophile. One crime, one victim, one suspect, THAT�S IT.
NO relying on your hatred for any religion you consider �not hip�. No one reading this has the authority to decide what any American may or may not believe, in terms of religion, whether or not Neil Armstrong actually did walk on the moon, whether or not 2+2=4, or anything else. It is not up to you to decide whether or not FLDS doctrine is acceptable for anyone else. The fact that they have religious beliefs that you find unfashionable is insufficient grounds for establishing criminal guilt.
NO reliance on the diatribes of embittered former FLDS members with an ax to grind. History is replete with examples of people leaving a society and turning against it and lying about it in order to harm it as much as possible.
NO sexist muttering about �men� this and �man� that. It may be that there's a man in that group of 600 people that can be nailed for statutory rape. Locate a brain and discover the reality that this does not automatically make every other male over the age of (fill in the blank) a pedophile. One crime, one victim, one suspect, THAT�S IT.
NO relying on your hatred for any religion you consider �not hip�. No one reading this has the authority to decide what any American may or may not believe, in terms of religion, whether or not Neil Armstrong actually did walk on the moon, whether or not 2+2=4, or anything else. It is not up to you to decide whether or not FLDS doctrine is acceptable for anyone else. The fact that they have religious beliefs that you find unfashionable is insufficient grounds for establishing criminal guilt.
Heavy-handed cops? | 11:46 a.m. April 16, 2008
Geez�.Give the law enforcement officers a break.
The method they used to proceed was based in informant reports that the FLDS would fight to the death to protect their compound and temple. No law enforcement officer should show up unprepared and put himself in harms way because YOU happen to think the method is too heavy handed and the FLDS didn�t violently resist. YOU have the benefit of hindsight�.the officers didn�t. Come on, this was the land of Waco, and to date NOBODY has been killed over the FLDS incident. Use the half a brain you have.
The method they used to proceed was based in informant reports that the FLDS would fight to the death to protect their compound and temple. No law enforcement officer should show up unprepared and put himself in harms way because YOU happen to think the method is too heavy handed and the FLDS didn�t violently resist. YOU have the benefit of hindsight�.the officers didn�t. Come on, this was the land of Waco, and to date NOBODY has been killed over the FLDS incident. Use the half a brain you have.
Wife of LEO | 11:51 a.m. April 16, 2008
Where are the pictures of the kids that were playing on and inside the APC?
These men and the APC looked a lot less threatening then. But I guess certain
people don't want that to get out.
Me | 11:57 a.m. April 16, 2008
Mamacita (previously Ananymous)and many others are so quick to judge from what
little they really know. Even newscasts are often slanted or biased. And to
think there hasn't even be a court hearing yet. Isn't the foundation
of our judicial system "innocent until proven guilty"? Who has proven
anyone guilty yet? And guilty of what? Even if there were some abuse going on by
some members of the group (which again we don't know for a fact), what
right does the government have to go in and split up all the families (without
exception)? The only excuse for this raid was (supposedly, since she hasn't
ever been found or even proven to exist) a phone call from one 16 year old
asserting abuse in only her situation... not anyone elses. With only that as a
legal basis, hundreds of people are then rounded up like cattle and bussed off,
never to see each again (as of right now, anyway).
Just because someone has different believes than our own, is that really enough justification to do what's been done and how it's been done? Common sense would say probably not.
Just because someone has different believes than our own, is that really enough justification to do what's been done and how it's been done? Common sense would say probably not.
Clifton | 11:59 a.m. April 16, 2008
Mamacita: Get this! Big bad (don't mess with Texas) Texas has once more
shown it's true colors!
Approximately two weeks before the attack on the Ranch, two unmarried Texas 14 year old Girls (about two weeks apart, gave birth to illigitimate babys, with one caught trying to flush a little boy down the toilet. Can't recall TPS trying to track down the male perpetrators to these two crimes. Now let me ask you toots, were the males who impregnated these two girls juveniles themselves, or were they adults? Could be that TPS and CPS were too busy focusing on gathering up their small Army, (complete with media in tow) to attack the FLDS Compound?
The need for this small army was supposedly to make sure the attack was by the book. No more such a thing as the Waco fiasco so it was said.
Sherrif down there said he had an informant in the compound for 4 years, yet no arrest made during that time. Hmmm!
Texas is a participating Bible Belt State, so tell me mamacita, was this attack predicated on trying to eliminate a religious sect found to be un acceptable to Texas's brand of religion?
Approximately two weeks before the attack on the Ranch, two unmarried Texas 14 year old Girls (about two weeks apart, gave birth to illigitimate babys, with one caught trying to flush a little boy down the toilet. Can't recall TPS trying to track down the male perpetrators to these two crimes. Now let me ask you toots, were the males who impregnated these two girls juveniles themselves, or were they adults? Could be that TPS and CPS were too busy focusing on gathering up their small Army, (complete with media in tow) to attack the FLDS Compound?
The need for this small army was supposedly to make sure the attack was by the book. No more such a thing as the Waco fiasco so it was said.
Sherrif down there said he had an informant in the compound for 4 years, yet no arrest made during that time. Hmmm!
Texas is a participating Bible Belt State, so tell me mamacita, was this attack predicated on trying to eliminate a religious sect found to be un acceptable to Texas's brand of religion?
a warning | 11:59 a.m. April 16, 2008
Perhaps this might be a warning for society that deviant behavior will not be
tolerated.
Especially when it involves minor children and young girls who have been trained to be dancing clowns for dirty old men by making them believe "It is God's Way."
Especially when it involves minor children and young girls who have been trained to be dancing clowns for dirty old men by making them believe "It is God's Way."
WOW CHET | 12:10 p.m. April 16, 2008
YOU MUST YEARN TO BE ONE OF THESE GUYS OR ARE YOU ALREADY?
TV FLDS Women | 12:18 p.m. April 16, 2008
Did anyone notice that the three FLDS women on TV "ARE NOT AWARE" of
anything pertaining to allegations of abuse? They are not familiar with Dale
Barlow, a prominent member of the church. They are not aware of the ages of
girls being member. They were very slow to answer concering the age they were
married. Rosie was unsure for a few minutes, but then answered "18".
They are not aware of marriages arranged by Warren Jeffs. They are not aware
that he is in jail. They are not aware that women and children are taken away
from their fathers and given to another man. They are not aware that boys are
kicked out. They are not aware that anyone is not allowed to leave the ranch at
any time. How sad. The bottom line is, "THEY ARE NOT AWARE".
That's part of the abuse.
boss | 12:20 p.m. April 16, 2008
Did anybody just stop to read the title of the article. Heavily armed operation
pleased officials, not FLDS.
Are not most criminals unhappy when they get caught? I can see it now. Arresting officer happy, drunk driver sad. Police destroy drug ring, drug deals distraught. the cops did their job, and nobody was physically hurt. Isnt that a good thing. Since when do we give the lawbreakers all the sympathy?
Are not most criminals unhappy when they get caught? I can see it now. Arresting officer happy, drunk driver sad. Police destroy drug ring, drug deals distraught. the cops did their job, and nobody was physically hurt. Isnt that a good thing. Since when do we give the lawbreakers all the sympathy?
To: TV | 12:29 p.m. April 16, 2008
You are right. Wasn't it strange that they did not know of the 16 year old
girl with 4 children nor that several teenage girls are pregnant? Hmm. How can
they not be aware of those things?
Lumin | 12:30 p.m. April 16, 2008
Mamacita said:
"LUMIN: When the call from the teenage girl came in, Texas was bound by LAW to investigate. When the police arrived and saw all the pregnant teenagers, they had all the evidence they needed to get additional search warrants and take the kids out.
...
Children's rights were being abused, let's never forget that."
-----------------------------
LOL!
Once again you are using speculation to defend the Texans! What 16 year old girl? It is only ALLEGED to have happened. After 12 days, there is no proof! But that doesn't stop the Governer from saying, "The children are ours now".
"Seeing a pregnant teenager" = "an abused child"? Wow, what a stretch! Where did you read this information from? What about the young boys, were they pregnant too, therefore "PROOF" that they were abused?
Since Texans have already 'assumed' all of this, they feel that every child should be put in foster homes, never to see their mothers again?
You're right, I wont forget the "Children's rights".
Re: its_Chet | 12:37 p.m. April 16, 2008
Having a sexual relationship with someone who is underage is statutory rape?
Even if you're "spiritually" married.
1. Many young apparently underage girls being pregnant or already being mothers is credible evidence that the girls had sexual relations with someone.
2. Numerous phone calls from a young girl who claimed to be a resident in the compound and claimed to have been forced into a marriage and to have been sexually and physically abused.
3. A closed society in which the leader was recently convicted of rape by accomplice for performing the same type of "spiritual" marriage.
All EVIDENCE to give the Texas authorities probable cause that children had been or were at risk of being abused.
You may disagree with the tactics or methods Texas authorities used to carry out the raid, but to suggest that they didn't have credible probable cause is ridiculous.
Even if you're "spiritually" married.
1. Many young apparently underage girls being pregnant or already being mothers is credible evidence that the girls had sexual relations with someone.
2. Numerous phone calls from a young girl who claimed to be a resident in the compound and claimed to have been forced into a marriage and to have been sexually and physically abused.
3. A closed society in which the leader was recently convicted of rape by accomplice for performing the same type of "spiritual" marriage.
All EVIDENCE to give the Texas authorities probable cause that children had been or were at risk of being abused.
You may disagree with the tactics or methods Texas authorities used to carry out the raid, but to suggest that they didn't have credible probable cause is ridiculous.
Re: Clifton | 12:46 p.m. April 16, 2008
So you're justifying child rape on the basis of religious beliefs and
therefore Texas has no authority to interfere?
What a guy!
What a guy!
Robert Cowger | 12:57 p.m. April 16, 2008
Be reasonable. The Constitution of Texas sets forth all of the articles needed
to handle this case.
But, the CPS and the local police managed to "do a breakdance on the FLDS property.
Go in to a home and seize personal property?
Go into a home and seize the children?
Go into a compound and accuse all therein of a dastardly act of polygamy (by the way not illegal in Texas, only being married more than one time is illegal)
Then try to bring charges "en masse". What a mess someone has made.
Texas will never live this down. It will be the norm when this is over.
But, the CPS and the local police managed to "do a breakdance on the FLDS property.
Go in to a home and seize personal property?
Go into a home and seize the children?
Go into a compound and accuse all therein of a dastardly act of polygamy (by the way not illegal in Texas, only being married more than one time is illegal)
Then try to bring charges "en masse". What a mess someone has made.
Texas will never live this down. It will be the norm when this is over.
Stan | 1:08 p.m. April 16, 2008
I hope the Texas police read how badly the Arizona police messed up by their
raid on the polygamist at Short Creek, Arizona raid in the nineteen fifties. It
sounds like to me that they didn't really verify their original
complainant's existence, the 16 year old girl, and where she could be found
before entering the sect's property. I think the Texas cops will look as
bad as the Arizona cops did in the 1950s when they had women and children
screaming for their fathers and no one could remember why they raided in the
first place.
Re: Lumin | 1:12 p.m. April 16, 2008
You'd better hope you NEVER have to call 9-1-1 for a fire or a break in at
your home. The authorities may want PROOF from you before they actually
investigate the ALLEGED incident.
Re: Robert Cowger | 1:16 p.m. April 16, 2008
I guess you can draw any conclusion you want if you make up your own
"facts" to fit your conclusion.
Anonymous | 1:34 p.m. April 16, 2008
Isaac said. "It was hard to watch them haul my family off."
�����������������������
Imagine that. How many kicked-out men had to say that when their families were taken away by Jeffs and his followers?
Are pregnant girls and subsequent DNA tests not going to reveal the truth? Come on people. Those saying abuse is not being committed and that laws aren't being broken are conveniently turning their heads.
�����������������������
Imagine that. How many kicked-out men had to say that when their families were taken away by Jeffs and his followers?
Are pregnant girls and subsequent DNA tests not going to reveal the truth? Come on people. Those saying abuse is not being committed and that laws aren't being broken are conveniently turning their heads.
dear re$$$$$$ | 1:37 p.m. April 16, 2008
$$$ is the only way some people will listen (not because they agree) but because
they are hit in the pocket book..
Re: Re: its_Chet | 1:43 p.m. April 16, 2008
You may disagree with the tactics or methods Texas authorities used to carry out
the raid, but to suggest that they didn't have credible probable cause is
ridiculous.
My argument is not that they didn�t have probable cause. That is virtually irrelevant to me. Here�s what I consider the real problem here, and if you can, think about it for a minute. What I�m going to say. Just that. That�s all. Ready? Okay.
The authorities are looking for a 16 year old girl they say called them and said she was being raped and beaten by her 50 year old husband. Should they investigate that? Absolutely. No one here will argue otherwise. So far, I�d say we�re in agreement. But stay with me for a minute.
Now, how did the authorities react? They mounted a heavily armed invasion of the entire community, and took every child they could find. They carried and perhaps even pointed fully automatic machine guns at people. They wrenched children out of their mothers arms.
Now stop and think about nothing more than what I just said, for now.
Think about it again.
One alleged victim. One alleged perpetrator. 416 children kidnapped?
This should enrage everyone.
My argument is not that they didn�t have probable cause. That is virtually irrelevant to me. Here�s what I consider the real problem here, and if you can, think about it for a minute. What I�m going to say. Just that. That�s all. Ready? Okay.
The authorities are looking for a 16 year old girl they say called them and said she was being raped and beaten by her 50 year old husband. Should they investigate that? Absolutely. No one here will argue otherwise. So far, I�d say we�re in agreement. But stay with me for a minute.
Now, how did the authorities react? They mounted a heavily armed invasion of the entire community, and took every child they could find. They carried and perhaps even pointed fully automatic machine guns at people. They wrenched children out of their mothers arms.
Now stop and think about nothing more than what I just said, for now.
Think about it again.
One alleged victim. One alleged perpetrator. 416 children kidnapped?
This should enrage everyone.
monstrous organization | 1:46 p.m. April 16, 2008
Any organization that puts itself before the individual is a monstrous and
self-serving one.
I feel for the innocent children indoctrinated from day one that their group is the "one, true, holy ..." (you know the rest).
I feel for the innocent children indoctrinated from day one that their group is the "one, true, holy ..." (you know the rest).
Re: Re: Lumin | 1:47 p.m. April 16, 2008
Yeah, and you better hope your neighbor doesn't call 9-1-1 and report you
as a child abuser, or you will lose your whole family.
Comparing a fire/break-in report to child abuse is absurd. When the fire dept. comes to stop a fire, they don't arrest your whole family, an the neighbors in process.
This is the problem with the FLDS raid: 416 people DID NOT need to be imprisoned by the state for one single phone call, UNTIL evidence proves their innocence.
Don't give me the garbage that they should be arrested anyway for practicing poligomy. If that's the case, then why did it take the 'tip' to arrest them if they were already guilty 100 years ago?
I mean, come on, if they REALLY HAD to arrest so many people, why couldn't they have taken all of the men? They are the targets here anyway, aren't they? Not the women and children.
Comparing a fire/break-in report to child abuse is absurd. When the fire dept. comes to stop a fire, they don't arrest your whole family, an the neighbors in process.
This is the problem with the FLDS raid: 416 people DID NOT need to be imprisoned by the state for one single phone call, UNTIL evidence proves their innocence.
Don't give me the garbage that they should be arrested anyway for practicing poligomy. If that's the case, then why did it take the 'tip' to arrest them if they were already guilty 100 years ago?
I mean, come on, if they REALLY HAD to arrest so many people, why couldn't they have taken all of the men? They are the targets here anyway, aren't they? Not the women and children.
To Deseret News | 2:14 p.m. April 16, 2008
"Heavily arms operations please officials, not FLDS"
There is now a requirement for pleasing those you are serving court papers on? This is idiocy.
Get a new headline, this one is not worth the trash.
There is now a requirement for pleasing those you are serving court papers on? This is idiocy.
Get a new headline, this one is not worth the trash.
start your own paper | 2:30 p.m. April 16, 2008
Instead of the usual conservative whining [2:14],
(probably against Limbaugh's "drive-by-media") why not publish your own paper?
(probably against Limbaugh's "drive-by-media") why not publish your own paper?
Re: Lumin | 2:34 p.m. April 16, 2008
You are so consumed with defending your point-of-view, that you can't
recognize that arresting someone and taking someone into protective custody are
polar opposites.
Nobody is going to take anyone's children away from them based on nothing but an anonymous phone call. Authorities are obligated to investigate, sure, but, they still have to find EVIDENCE of possible child abuse before they can take the kids.
Polygamy has nothing to do with this case.
Nobody is going to take anyone's children away from them based on nothing but an anonymous phone call. Authorities are obligated to investigate, sure, but, they still have to find EVIDENCE of possible child abuse before they can take the kids.
Polygamy has nothing to do with this case.
Re: its_Chet | 2:43 p.m. April 16, 2008
Go back and review the case. Texas authorities went back and got a second court
order when they discovered evidence that other children were possibly being
abused.
The heavily armed raid was based on reports that the FLDS might respond with armed resistance. Texas did what any responsible law enforcement agency would do, they went fully prepared for whatever resistance they might have encountered. Thankfully, it wasn't necessary, and no one was hurt.
Polygamy never was the issue. Possible child abuse is and always was the issue Texas was investigating.
The heavily armed raid was based on reports that the FLDS might respond with armed resistance. Texas did what any responsible law enforcement agency would do, they went fully prepared for whatever resistance they might have encountered. Thankfully, it wasn't necessary, and no one was hurt.
Polygamy never was the issue. Possible child abuse is and always was the issue Texas was investigating.
Ronald A. Young | 2:48 p.m. April 16, 2008
Do I/we really care what the FLDS adult males or females, think about the Raid
on their Cult
Compound and the removal of the kids to include underaged Girls falsely married to and being abused by their so called husbands. Don't think so.
Compound and the removal of the kids to include underaged Girls falsely married to and being abused by their so called husbands. Don't think so.
Re: Lumin | 2:34 p.m | 2:59 p.m. April 16, 2008
I would much rather be arrested than to have my children taken from me and have
the state tell me they are no longer mine.
They already HAVE taken their children away based on an anonymous phone call! That's what is absurd!
Plenty of people have made this about polygamy and welfare fraud.
They already HAVE taken their children away based on an anonymous phone call! That's what is absurd!
Plenty of people have made this about polygamy and welfare fraud.
Tex | 2:58 p.m. April 16, 2008
GOOGLED "lost boys utah" and read some of the links that where
returned. It made me SICK! I wonder how many of these "Lost Boys" are
wondering the streets of San Angelo, Tx?
To just a simple question | 3:01 p.m. April 16, 2008
We know that one Dale Barlow is in Utah or Arizona or where ever. But who knows
how many more Dale Barlows there are? Considering how secretative these people
are regarding names. The question may be: Will the REAL Dale Barlow stand up?
Address? | 3:17 p.m. April 16, 2008
I'm beginning to think that some of you have an address that reads: YFZ
Ranch
Eldorado, Texas
Eldorado, Texas
Mamacita | 3:28 p.m. April 16, 2008
You go Girl! I'm another very proud Texan who happens to live in San
Angelo.....YIKES! And I'm very proud of that fact too! I am very proud
that Texas did have the guts to step up to the plate and try to help these
children. All of this nit-picking and complaining is getting ridiculous. No
one will know how this is going to end until it's over and that will
probably be awhile. In the meantime ...God Bless Texas!
Todd | 3:29 p.m. April 16, 2008
I guess we'll find out after tomorrow but Texas has yet to offer the public
a constitutional justification for a wholesale raid on an entire community.
Texas didn't try to serve a warrant and have it denied. As others have
pointed out this was a well planned and coordinated action, it wasn't put
together because child welfare got a telephone call. When's the last time
child welfare showed up with an army to check conditions in the inner city.
This's a raid looking for evidence and it's looking like any they
found will turn into forbidden fruit. What the heck, then the
clowns/authorities can blame the lawyers and corrupt legal system. One more
point - had this been an indigenous population, we'd be watching the
community on National Geographic and talking about what we need to do to
preserve a culture and way of life. Statistically, more than 50% of kids are
having sex and the U.S. culture wants to teach them about safer sex practices.
Yes, I know there's a difference between kids having sex with kids and
pedophilia but at a rational level there's a lot of the pot calling the
kettle black going on in Texas.
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It almost makes my point for me.
�old men�, �dirty old men�, �must have�, �cult�, �MAN�, �MEN�, etc., etc., etc�..
One alleged allegation. One accused suspect. 416 children removed? ILLOGICAL. Unless, the people who keep going on and on about how they �deserved it� are, like the perpetrators of this human rights violation, simply acting on bigoted sentiments toward the FLDS religion, and/or sexist, baseless hostility against men they don�t know very much about simply because they�re men.
Strange religion, polygamy, seclusion, and one phony phone call (that�s what I�ll continue to call it until Texas can produce their alleged informant), and that�s all it takes to commit this horrible atrocity upon ALL involved. The real abuse to the children? Or the women, for that matter? IT WAS WHEN THE CHILDREN WERE KIDNAPPED!! The human rights of women and children were violated based on one phony allegation against one man.
The kidnappers have admitted that they don�t intend to give the children back. Their actions reveal bigotry.