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Ex-FLDS members try to counter claims of persecution
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JKT | 7:14 a.m. April 16, 2008
I live in Hildale Utah. I have 3 daughters ages 16, 18, and 21. All are single
happy girls in our home. I also have a son 19, who of his own will and choice
left our home a year ago. I have not kicked anyone out of my home (nor never
will), I have not "forced" my girls to marry old men. We are all
individuals with the right to choose how to raise our children, and what to
teach them etc. I have the same rights as any American. Just because there are
alleged abuses does not justify all the children being taken from their parents.
Problem | 8:57 a.m. April 16, 2008
Of concern is that anyone, anonymously, can accuse anyone of "child
abuse," and the accused is guilty until proven innocent. That is in direct
violation of the Constitution, which says that the accused is innocent until
proven guilty. The Constitution also provides that the accused has the right to
face his accuser. But now, when someone cries "child abuse," that
right is forfeited.
Someone anonymously accused me of neglect when he/she saw my two-year-old walk down the sidewalk and step off the curb (all his older siblings were playing in the front yard, and didn't notice him slip away; it could happen to anyone; they ran after him as soon as they noticed). The police came. My name was placed on a state registry for 75 years, and a social worker came and interviewed me in my home, after which he decided to drop his investigation. But my name remains on the registry. I will never know who the accuser was.
I thought of cooking up anonymous accusations against the entire state legislature, so they could get a dose of their own lawmaking.
Someone anonymously accused me of neglect when he/she saw my two-year-old walk down the sidewalk and step off the curb (all his older siblings were playing in the front yard, and didn't notice him slip away; it could happen to anyone; they ran after him as soon as they noticed). The police came. My name was placed on a state registry for 75 years, and a social worker came and interviewed me in my home, after which he decided to drop his investigation. But my name remains on the registry. I will never know who the accuser was.
I thought of cooking up anonymous accusations against the entire state legislature, so they could get a dose of their own lawmaking.
Comments continue below
Carol Herman | 10:19 a.m. April 16, 2008
Wait till some of you figure out that this was paid for by WELFARE! Every
single underage birth brought in money each month.
And, I read, somewhere, that they also use FAKED birth certificates.
So, there are a few women calling themselves, "mothers." But they are not this, in any conventional sense.
Hopefully, when the State finishes, the real parents will be identified by DNA. Good luck to those kids, though, who were conceived in rape. Where older men were using this facility like a whore house.
And, the uneducated rape victims were supplying the babies that brought in more money each month.
How much? I wouldn't be surprised to find out this "church" was claiming $50,000 a month in taxpayer funds.
Just stay tuned. The story's not dying on the fine, folks.
And, I read, somewhere, that they also use FAKED birth certificates.
So, there are a few women calling themselves, "mothers." But they are not this, in any conventional sense.
Hopefully, when the State finishes, the real parents will be identified by DNA. Good luck to those kids, though, who were conceived in rape. Where older men were using this facility like a whore house.
And, the uneducated rape victims were supplying the babies that brought in more money each month.
How much? I wouldn't be surprised to find out this "church" was claiming $50,000 a month in taxpayer funds.
Just stay tuned. The story's not dying on the fine, folks.
Interested | 10:52 a.m. April 16, 2008
Problem I agree with you. The problem here that will have the farthest reaching
negative in our Country is that we have passed laws that make citizens guilty
before they are tried. This is completely against the values on which America
was created. I have long had a problem with this on a one home one family basis.
The fact that we have many homes and over 400 children involved shows how
terrible this thinking is. Jesus said that we should be willing to bear one
anothers burdens and sufferings but today in America our lawmakers have decided
that no one will suffer and that they will pass laws to make it so. It wont
work!
CA | 10:57 a.m. April 16, 2008
416 children- only 24 boys. 18 pregnant girls under age 18. 139 wives. 60 men
left on the compound, but only 34 husbands. Lets all do the math.
RD | 12:04 p.m. April 16, 2008
Read! Read "In My Father's House" and other books by Dorothy
Allred Solomon. Read the stories of Emma Hale Smith and the story of the 19th
wife of Brigham Young (might still be on the internet free). Read Jon
Krakhauer's book "Under the Banner of Heaven" Educate yourself
about this sect!
To JKT from Joe | 1:05 p.m. April 16, 2008
Thanks for your information. What you don't mention is whether there is a
husband who lives with you and supports your family, and whether he has other
families that he also supports. (This question is important simply from the
standpoint of whether the state is subsidizing your lifestyle or not).
How was it determined who you should marry; did you find someone attractive and make the decision yourself, or did you receive council from a church leader who told you who you should marry? I understand if you are simply trying to follow the council of the leaders, but we need to start being upright and honest with each other if we expect to make any progress.
We hear accounts of men who have been separated from their wives and children by church leaders, and their wives and children are given to others. Have you ever heard of that or seen it happen? If this isn't true or never happens, why are some men suing Warren Jeffs to try and get information as to the whereabouts of their now missing families?
Do those fathers have rights or not?
I think it is about time we had some honest dialog.
How was it determined who you should marry; did you find someone attractive and make the decision yourself, or did you receive council from a church leader who told you who you should marry? I understand if you are simply trying to follow the council of the leaders, but we need to start being upright and honest with each other if we expect to make any progress.
We hear accounts of men who have been separated from their wives and children by church leaders, and their wives and children are given to others. Have you ever heard of that or seen it happen? If this isn't true or never happens, why are some men suing Warren Jeffs to try and get information as to the whereabouts of their now missing families?
Do those fathers have rights or not?
I think it is about time we had some honest dialog.
Re: RD Read Read Read | 4:00 p.m. April 16, 2008
And be sure to read all of the anti-Christian literature published by Muslim
extremists. Educate yourself about all of the religious sects using the most
ANTI-literature you can find.
Anonymous | 7:52 p.m. April 16, 2008
What i think is that its time for "TRUE" polygamist women to rise up
and be the radical type of MOTHERS they are. All the other "fake"
polygamist women should go be in the normal society and live alone, or have
monogamy. Don't do out of ignorance, or fear, or even what a book says.
Outsider | 8:27 p.m. April 16, 2008
If the abuses are largely against teen girls, why didn't Texas remove and
question the teen girls to get the investigation underway? I just don't
understand removing ALL the children.
Lorin | 11:18 p.m. April 16, 2008
I, having been born in Hildale, UT, can say with certainty that half of you are
right, half of the time.
Yes there are some bad people in that community, as there are in any community.
Let me pose some question, I don't need your answer as I have my own, Where is the accuser? What happened to due process? Why has Arizona not arrested and deported the man accused?
How did it take an agency that would be helping, because they "had to act", from Monday when the supposed call was made till Thursday night to get some CPS Agents and some Patrolmen to the ranch? And lastly, how is it possible the the man accused could have done this, when he has not been to Texas in 17 years. Also his record with the Parole Officer is without a missed check-in.
I am with any that would arrest a guilty man, remove an abused child or in any other LEGAL manner enforce the law.
Let's be clear, this is all one man's opinion, we are all entitled to them.
Yes there are some bad people in that community, as there are in any community.
Let me pose some question, I don't need your answer as I have my own, Where is the accuser? What happened to due process? Why has Arizona not arrested and deported the man accused?
How did it take an agency that would be helping, because they "had to act", from Monday when the supposed call was made till Thursday night to get some CPS Agents and some Patrolmen to the ranch? And lastly, how is it possible the the man accused could have done this, when he has not been to Texas in 17 years. Also his record with the Parole Officer is without a missed check-in.
I am with any that would arrest a guilty man, remove an abused child or in any other LEGAL manner enforce the law.
Let's be clear, this is all one man's opinion, we are all entitled to them.
Lorin | 11:30 p.m. April 16, 2008
One more thing.
The Agency that supposedly received the call, failed to record said call. Then when provided an alleged second call, they failed, again, to record it. Sounds like incompetence is running the Texas Rangers and the Texas CPS. It is called "due process", all accused criminals has the right to stand before his accuser, in a Court of Law, and to be Guaranteed a timely and Just trial before a Jury of his peers. To all those whom would count themselves not a peer of these people are disqualified from Jury and therefore cannot cast a responsible Judgment.
Arrest the Guilty, leave the innocent.
Stop being an over bearing inhumane Government.
Now the Quote:
The cost of Freedom is Eternal Vigilance - Thomas Jefferson
The Agency that supposedly received the call, failed to record said call. Then when provided an alleged second call, they failed, again, to record it. Sounds like incompetence is running the Texas Rangers and the Texas CPS. It is called "due process", all accused criminals has the right to stand before his accuser, in a Court of Law, and to be Guaranteed a timely and Just trial before a Jury of his peers. To all those whom would count themselves not a peer of these people are disqualified from Jury and therefore cannot cast a responsible Judgment.
Arrest the Guilty, leave the innocent.
Stop being an over bearing inhumane Government.
Now the Quote:
The cost of Freedom is Eternal Vigilance - Thomas Jefferson
Rose | 5:57 p.m. April 17, 2008
While there are many horrors being addressed right now,the TRUE BLIGHT is on all
of US. It is in the past and in the future. We as americans have ignored what
was happening in these groups for WAY to long. Thats past. Future will be when
media attention dies down and kids are sent back "HOME" just like they
have in the past. What can I, or other caring people do,to help prevent history
from repeating itself....AGAIN?? Is the LDS church doing anything to help these
children? Are the Catholics helping? ANY of the other churches? It is reportedly
costing $25,000 daily to care for the kids. They need non threatening christian
homes. What if anything are the major church powers doing besides yapping and
throwing stones? Actions speak louder than words and thats a fact. Are the
powers financially and morally ABLE to "HELP", providing anything
besides lip service and stone throwing? Some political email addresses for the
public to show support for agencies fighting for these kids might be helpful.
Would love to see that info posted in here so others could see and share it!!
Roo | 7:23 p.m. April 17, 2008
The state of Texas did nothing that they wouldn't do in any home where
there was suspected abuse of children. What makes this noteworthy is because of
the large number and unusual circumstances. This is what makes it a news story.
If this was just a home with one wife and husband, we would never hear of it.
The women that I have seen interviewed seem like Stepford Wives - robotic in
their responses and as if they had been rehearssed. They don't quickly
answer questions - especially ones that have to do with the age of girls being
married. I did not see one woman anwser a question as though it were her own
words. Very guarded responses seemed the norm with lots of avoidance of
directly answering many questions. I hope that this is totally investigated and
that much light is shed and the truth revealed!
jamesj | 11:30 p.m. April 25, 2008
Ironically, the men will get due process, something they never afforded the
girls they raped or the boys they threw out like garbage (after they worked for
free for years). That is if they come forward. By the way, where are the
cowards? No offering of DNA to expedite getting their beloved children (wives)
back? Don't see them at the sex ranch. Don't see them at the
courthouse. Where could they be????
observer | 5:01 p.m. April 27, 2008
I really think there are several problems with this kind of living situation.
Mainly, if you father a child, you should be responsible emotionally and
financially to see that child reared to a point at which they can be responsible
for themselves. And the mother should have a say in having that child and who
is the father. This business of non responsible parenting is a problem of
society in general, but the FLDS seems to have taken it to extremes. Think
Hitler. And I care even more because my tax dollars are being spent to
"fix" the problems FLDS has caused.
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What are you suggesting? Do you think there aren't any "lost boys", or do you think their MOTHERS kicked them out?
*no and no*
I find it very difficult to believe that a mother would kick out her own kid. Based on the FLDS beliefs, it seems like it would have been either the father (likely) or the compound leader (most likely). Also, I have read with my own eyes that there WERE "lost boys". It's very realistic that the FLDS would drive boys out, with all the other whacky doctrines they follow.