Deseret News | Raid aftermath: Cell phones are confiscated

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Raid aftermath: Cell phones are confiscated

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Eye Dee Ten Tee | 1:39 a.m. April 14, 2008

The best thing that can come out of this is the Texas CPS being sued for all they are worth!!! What next, a concentration camp to keep these American citizens safe? We have unlawful search and seizure, illegal imprisonment, and I'll bet real money that we find out the 'judge' who has been issuing these warrants is some Baptist zealot who just cannot stand to see people who have beliefs different from his. Where is the ACLU? Why has the press not investigated the 'judge'? It doesn't matter if you agree with poligamy or not, the government has clearly overstepped its bounds.

Bo knows | 1:51 a.m. April 14, 2008

Are you kidding me? First, take away 4th amendment rights, then take away first amendment free speech rights. The Amish are next, followed by the Jews. Watch your backs folks. We're all in for a long ride.

brent | 1:59 a.m. April 14, 2008

America ! what has happened to religious freedom? Who's next? why only mainstream religion has freedom to worship as they see fit??? Shame on Texas

Comments continue below

brent | 2:13 a.m. April 14, 2008

I can only hope Texas is sued to the very max for this fiasco.....

Greg | 4:07 a.m. April 14, 2008

What's next? It only gets worse from here...but look at the bright side...at least they did not have tanks driven into their homes nor were they burned to death.

Buang | 5:12 a.m. April 14, 2008

Before this article even starts getting all the posts about the LDS Church being responsible for the polygamy thing, the real issue you here is a lot of innocent women and children being held against their will and deprived of some very basic Constitutional rights. The judge acts as though the women and children holed up in Ft. Concho are sequestered like a jury. It's almost as though these women and children are in Guantanomo Bay. I Sure hope they don't have hoods on their heads.

If anything it's the men that should have been halled off and the women and children should have been left to live in their homes. Prosecute the men who have married any underage girls.

TommyReb | 5:25 a.m. April 14, 2008

brent: What would your opinion be if someone wanted to follow the Aztec religious practice of human sacrifice? Child abuse is just as despiciable so Texas has an obligation to investigate any complaints it receives. Now Texas may indeed get sued, but I doubt that a Texas jury would award anything more than a dollar in damages. A rural Texas sheriff who comes across a body filled with bullet holes is likely to first ask "Did he need killing?" and that is largely the mentality of the folks there. No, the FLDS were living on borrowed time the minute they acquired the YFZ Ranch. With their prophet now serving a couple of consecutive 5 to life terms in Utah and is about to be tried by Arizona for more alleged criminal activity they became too well known to hope to survive...

suddenly everyone is at risk | 5:34 a.m. April 14, 2008

"...The Amish are next..."

Hardly; the Amish obey the laws of the land, and don't hide in compounds. It's telling how an organization that prides itself on 'being apart' or 'right', in opposition to everyone else suddenly wants to throw itself in amongst other groups when it feels the harsh glare of the spotlight that it has brought upon itself.

MO knows | 5:40 a.m. April 14, 2008

Oh come on and get real, this has NOTHING to do with religious freedom. This cult has had its own little "sex farm" for way too long. Its time that these pedophiles stop being able to hide behind the "religious freedom" banner and be brought to account for their heinous acts. Those that defend these animals (worse than animals) are as guilty as they are. Someone needs to step up to the plate for all the women and girls who are unable to do it for themselves. These types of closed communities most often do lead toward sexual abuses. There should be NO tolerance for this behavior. The children should be taken from BOTH parents, the women AND men should be sterilized so they cannot breed more "sex toys" for horrible old men.

Why? | 5:41 a.m. April 14, 2008

Since the LDS Church has taken repeated pains to point out that it has NOTHING whatsoever to do with this group in Texas, why does the Desert News (owned by the Church)seem to be spending an inordinate amount of time, effort (phone interviews, sending reporters to Texas)and space reporting on this? They don't go to this trouble for other U.S. regional stories.

Freedom | 6:26 a.m. April 14, 2008

These people had all they needed in that compound to take care of these kids comfortably. Why doesn't Texas look more closely to the slums and the homeless where there is obvious signs of abuse and child prostitution. Go help the people who need it.
This FLDS situation obviously the men need to be questioned to see who is an actual perpetrator. Don't allow these social workers to abuse these kids by prodding around on their bodies. This is discusting.
God bless Texas they need it.
God bless the kids and grant them freedom.

cornered | 6:39 a.m. April 14, 2008

It probably never occurred to the Judge that the adult women would have the 'freedom' to call anyone they want with a cell phone. After all these women are just 'objects' in this society.

This is a concentration camp, just like Utah's Topaz. Hopefully things won't get any uglier, but I won't hold my breath.

Anonymous | 6:42 a.m. April 14, 2008

We can't have people seeing these people live like Cattle can we now? Nor can we have anyone speaking out against the raid. It's best we shut them up, otherwise the people in favor of this raid might see the error of their ways. Good job judge. Don't mess with Texas!

JND | 6:37 a.m. April 14, 2008

Blah, blah, blah!

Jim | 6:39 a.m. April 14, 2008

We have NO rights living in the Socialist States of America.

Miser | 6:46 a.m. April 14, 2008

I can't believe this is happening in America! I hope those FLDS attorneys are ready to sue for each violation of the constitution.

Multiply that by 416 + 137, you've got yourself a rather large bill, Texas.

VegasBaby | 6:43 a.m. April 14, 2008

I don't think the 4th amendment covers child rape.

Judy Mother Freedom | 6:45 a.m. April 14, 2008

As Long as Other Religions don't break the law they'll be fine.. Abusing any wife is against the law....If you Don't break the laws then you are free to practice any religion! Marrying off minors is against the law folks especially. 13,14,15,16,17, year old girls and when you abuse them it's double against the law!!!
Do these young Girls have any freedom to choose a different life style?

Anonymous | 6:46 a.m. April 14, 2008

Who's next? All of us. The government is testing their wings then they will be after anyone for any reason. Remember what happened to the Jensens here in Utah? I wrote a letter to the governor of Texas and have emailed everyone I know and asked them to do the same. People this is why we need Ron Paul for president. Our constitution means nothing anymore and we are slowly being led down to the depths of communisim, we are half way there already. Think I'm a kook? Open your eyes.

snickerdoodle | 6:55 a.m. April 14, 2008

Guys, I have one suggestion for you.

Do not rely on the Des. News article for "news".

You know how the media can twist a story.

Snickerdoodle suggests "Escape" by Carolyn Jessop. It's really a terrible story. Girls cannot choose who they are married to, and many are stuck marrying old men. That's what happened to Carolyn. It really makes me angry when I see people like Brent.

Please read up on FLDS doctrines -- I'm sure that will sway you slightly.

*did you know*

Warren Jeffs declared that laughter drives the spirit from your body.

Bill | 6:54 a.m. April 14, 2008

I am a former law enforcement liason with Texas CPS. I have been following this situation and it appears that something is terribly amiss.
CPS has a directive to make every attempt to keep the family together.
If things are as they are claimed to be in the press, then the 16 year old who allegedly made outcry as to ongoing abuse should have been the only child to be removed pending investigation.
The removal of more than 400 children at one time is unprecedented. These children are being forced to undergo intimate physical examinations without cause, other than a fishing expedition by the state of Texas.
The conditions described that these people are being confined in would be deemed to be unsuitable for criminal detainees.
This has the appearence of being a complete travesty of justice.
I am not a Mormon, but my prayers are with these people.

TROrmond | 7:00 a.m. April 14, 2008

These women and children are in a *shelter* correct? I ask because this is sounding more and more like an internment camp to me.

Momof5kids | 7:28 a.m. April 14, 2008

Give me a break about the religious freedom. Good for Texas! Unlike Utah, Arizona and Nevada, at least they have no tolerance for this religous group that continually breaks the law. This is NOT an issue of religious freedom. This is an issue of illegal activity. At the very least, the FLDS has a history of tax evasion and working the welfare system, and practicing polygamy. They are continually suspected of having "spiritual marriages" to underage girls which in the USA is considered sexual child abuse. Good grief, the Texas authorities have in custody a 16 year old who has had four babies with mostly likely a much older man!! Whoever supports this group is criminal themselves.

unbelievable. | 7:36 a.m. April 14, 2008

No communications? Not allowed contact with Moms or Dads? I have had foster kids beaten to an inch of their little lives, and even they got to see thier kids (supervised) until the courts severed parental rights. Put the abusers in Jail; not the abused. This is NOT protecting children, but making sure they cannot and will not practice their religion. Polygamy may be wrong, but so is hearing 400 plus kids into sub-liveable conditions like sheep, and then taking away their rights, one by one by one. They are treated as prisoners, when the real abusers are running free. Texas Justice at it's best.

Blaine | 7:31 a.m. April 14, 2008

"First they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew. Then they came for the Communists and I did not speak out because I was not a Communist. Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist. Then they came for me and there was no one left to speak out for me." -- Lutheran Pastor Martin Niemï¿½ller

Dave | 7:37 a.m. April 14, 2008

This isn't about religion, this is about having sex with children, it is illegal.

Layola | 7:40 a.m. April 14, 2008

Where are the men? Why aren't they asking for help from the Governor?

I have no doubt that they were in contact with the women inside, conspiring to make the CPS look as bad as possible.

Where are the men? Why do we not see them on TV asking for their children?

Why doesn't the Deseret News ask the women they talked to some questions like how old were you when you were 'married'?

Do you know any of the women who had babies at the age of 14 or 15?

Would you let you daughter be married to a 50 year old man at the age of 15?

Could we get some real questions instead of this tugging at the heartstrings stuff? That is easy. But in the end the welfare and rights of the children are the most important.

Big Youth | 7:40 a.m. April 14, 2008

The Attorneys for the children requested the order, and it was granted. The moms have to contend with the fact that these Attorneys are not there to represent their interest, but just the interest of the child. They need to have their own attorneys. Itï¿½s a three-way match.

Itï¿½s all proper and correct

Mahershalalhashbaz | 7:47 a.m. April 14, 2008

Amen! Texas Justice? Not. The Texas justice system is in disarray.

J.Raye | 7:54 a.m. April 14, 2008

What about the 13th amendment: "Neither slavery nor involuntay servitude...shall exist within the United States..." And that includes the great state of Texas. Wake up, Utah and free the flds child-bride slaves in your own state.

Freedom Lover | 8:04 a.m. April 14, 2008

CPS are now the real abusers. Can you imagine being a sheltered religious young girl who has never been seen naked, now being forced to undergo an OB/GYN exam, and not even having the right to consent or have your mother present, now that is abuse! CPS and Warren Jeffs are essentially equally evil.

Curious | 8:31 a.m. April 14, 2008

Where is the ACLU?

Is the fact they aren't standing up for these people's rights telling?

JMC | 8:34 a.m. April 14, 2008

Right or Wrong should not be what you are looking at right now. It seems to me that know matter what the state is intent on not returning the children to the families until they figure everything out. That means Foster Care, and with children raised in that fasion you can't just put them into a normal foster home and expect them to adapt. They are going to need homes from as close of an environment as posibble. Otherwise more damage will have been done to innocent children. The Members from LDS Church can give them that. The question is, is enough people from the church willing to step up to the plate for these children and take them in when the time comes for the State to place them.

BJ | 9:48 a.m. April 14, 2008

The women making these statements cannot be trusted to describe the situation truthfully. They take welfare money as 2nd and 3rd wives. They KNOW how to work the system. Lying comes naturally to them as well as their husband(s)when they feel the situation merits it.

I applaud the state of TX for having the guts to do something about the abuse taking place under the facade of a religion. This is not a freedom of religion case it is about whether or not we are going to continue to allow the FLDS to practice sexual abuse against minors. I agree with Aztec...do we allow child sacrifice if it is part of our religion?

Don't let these women yank your emotional chain. It is what they are counting on.

Artirome | 9:50 a.m. April 14, 2008

Let me get this straight. They can't identify the accuser or the perp. Based on that non-information, from a non-accuser, Texas storms the compound,
and relocates all the women and children, separating the families and not allowing some women to have any contact with their own children. They then smash through the prayer circle to crash their sacred site and tantalize us with suggestions of ritual sex. Then, to make sure there's no contact with the outside (for their own protection, of course), they confiscate all the phones of the non-accused. Meantime, the unidentified dirty old men disappear into the Texas badlands or back to polygamy-friendly Utah and Arizona. This gets worse every day. I'm waiting for the report that it may have been a prank call and Texas has no case -- and has to pay millions in reparations.

Doug S | 10:12 a.m. April 14, 2008

Frankly, considering that the Deseret News more or less threw the FLDS under the bus during Short Creek, I'm glad to see them taking a more nuanced view this time around.

It's one thing after another. | 10:13 a.m. April 14, 2008

Texas has a "tiger by the tail" and I don't think any of them fully understood the magnitude and issues a raid like this would cause at the time the decided to go in. I feel that they are struggling to keep control of the situation, and the publicity, size and scope of case is killing them. The fact that they as yet have failed to identify the original caller who set off this whole thing is going to put all of evidence obtained from the search in question. The cell phone confications is just one more sign that this is getting away from them.

It is raids like this that caused the FLDS to become a closed society in the first place. They have become well pracitced at evading the authorities. Good luck to Texas they have a long way to go in proving their cases, all 416 of them.

History repeated | 10:16 a.m. April 14, 2008

People in favor of the authorities are letting allegations of child abuse cloud their judgement. Child abuse has not been proven and is only heresay. The call was bogus and was staged for faked. In America you are innocent until proven guilty. Likewise for texas authorities to take these actions they better back it up with very compelling evidence. However they have none. This is what is called probable cause, it was not sufficiently proven. Thus this raid was unconstitutional.

Set aside the child rape and look at the other things for a minute. Ask yourself, is this the America you want to live in? Is this just and right. As does Lady Justice, put on a blind fold, look at the facts presented then weigh the options. Was this justified.

The Germans were tricked into condoning the actions against the Jews because they "make all the money." Hatred was built. America imprisoned the Japanese Americans because they were a threat to national security. Only problem is, these are circumstances of the government lying to its people. History looks back on these events with shame. Open a book, learn or repeat the mistakes of the past.

deseretnews.com moderator | 10:22 a.m. April 14, 2008

One of our servers is down, which has slowed access to the site. In order to improve access to our Web site we will not be posting comments for the next couple of hours.

Debbie | 10:30 a.m. April 14, 2008

I abhor abuse and believe what has happened within the FLDS Church is wrong in regards to its treatment of women and children. If there is probable cause, round up the abusers. This is one more example where victims are blamed for their abuse. At least they are being punished and having more rights taken away.

Of course they suffer from the Stockholm Syndrome within their compound and the women don't know a better way. Good thing Texas Child Protective Services is going to show them how wonderful their lives could be on the "outside."

These officials are playing right into the hands of the abusive men who tell the women that if they leave the outsiders will hurt them. By comparison their life was safer in the compound and the women and children will believe the men even more now.

Right - the women can leave and are "free" but if they do they cannot come back. Those who were missed in the raid can't come in.

Texas thinks they are a country unto themselves. No matter what, these women deserve their constitutional rights. The abusers and lawbreakers deserve to be detained, questioned and arrested; not the victims.

Matt in Tucson | 10:38 a.m. April 14, 2008

Texas has "Jim Crow" laws still on the books. What would happen if they would try to enforce them? No court would uphold them because Supreme Court rulings would take precedence. The same is true for polygamy -- the laws are on the books, but Supreme Court rulings have made them essentially invalid. So, the illegality of polygamy is a red-herring in this debate.

Child abuse should be punished, but so should unreasonable search and seizure, violation of due process, and false accusation. The ACLU should be much more worried about these gross and far-reaching constitutional violations than the rather trivial violations they are currently attacking.

Ted Clayton | 10:59 a.m. April 14, 2008

Taking the telephones after allowing them for a week, the exotic search & seizure operation (peering in baby diapers), aggravates the challenges Texas faces, and probably does not forestall any so-called "witness tampering", particularly not after the women had the phones for so long.
~
The action serves mainly to make Texas look heavy-handed to outsiders, and further supports the FLDS impression that Texas is using excuses to go after their Church, rather than tackling the problem of underage sex.

Joshua | 11:06 a.m. April 14, 2008

Comments? How about a snow storm of pedophile defenders?

Cosmo | 11:35 a.m. April 14, 2008

How can a woman who is supposedly enslaved have a cell phone? What crime have these people committed that would cause them to be "interred" by the State of Texas? Where is the person who called CPS alleging abuse? There are some serious problems here for the State of Texas. It looks like they have violated the civil rights of these people. To save face, they will have to "find" some reason to justify what they have done.

mjc | 11:43 a.m. April 14, 2008

I applaud Texas for taking a stand. These women have been used by men in the name of religion. Everything about this is wrong. The children are suffering and that is my main concern. Return the children to their mothers and to the compound. Arrest the men...

Of course you wont | 11:46 a.m. April 14, 2008

They are kids, not men, Johnson

pathetic women | 12:11 p.m. April 14, 2008

Give me a break. These women refused to claim and identify their children. They have aided and abetted rapists. They are conspirators to heinous crimes.

I dont think they should be allowed to be with the victims and communicate information about the victims with the main perpetrators.

The only error Texas made was in allowing these so called 'mothers' to accompany the children.

Thanks to Texas DFS? | 12:12 p.m. April 14, 2008

I thank Texas DFS for trying to protect the kids, but I think they are going way out of bounds, and I wonder what is REALLY motivating them to do this.

In an interview Friday, the Sherrif said... "Until the phone call came in, we didn't have any actionable evidence against the FLDS (even after having an inside informer for 4 years). Now the phone call has been proven to be bogus. So they need to be carefull or all the information they gather in this raid will be thrown out of any legal proceedings.

I think it's obvious taking the familie's cell phone shows these children are "Prisoners" and not being "Protected" by DFS. How does taking their only means of communication from them "Protect" them? All that protects is their case, and that reveals what is important to Texas officials, the case? or the kids? I think it's obviously "The case".

After 2 weeks of questioning and confinement under stressfull conditions... I think Texas DFS is going to eventually be able to get all the confessions they want (from kids willing to do anything to get out).

Texas Justice? | 12:19 p.m. April 14, 2008

The phone call from one of the mothers with the captive children said... The kids are being "Interviewed" by lawyers, but they don't know if the lawyers are there for their defense (so they can confide in them and trust they will "HELP" them and the lawyer-client-privacy will be respected, or if the Lawyers are there to prosecute them (so they are incriminating themselvs and whatever they tell them will be used against them and their parents in court).

This is NOT the way the Justice system is SUPPOSED to be used.

Praise Layola! | 12:25 p.m. April 14, 2008

at least some people here have common sense . . .

Look, guys, what you are hearing is not the full story. What you hear is

"I can't see my kids . . . they took my phone . . . we're not treated too well . . . I miss my kids . . ."

What you don't hear is

"I was married at 15 . . . my husband was 34 years older than me . . . I've been pregnant ever since . . . I lived under a messed up, weirdo cult leader . . . my kids grow up by looking the other way when my husband beats me . . ."

Shocking difference.

Layola is right. Where are those supposed spiritual husbands? If those husbands are loyal and loving, then why aren't they pleading their wives' cases?

This is all so brilliantly obvious.

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