Deseret News | First look inside YFZ Ranch

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First look inside YFZ Ranch

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Eman | 10:35 p.m. April 13, 2008

So, some stranger calls the abuse hotline knowing the authorities are hot to get their hands on these people...? What a joke. Texans are nothing more than a bunch of hair trigger rednecks waiting to get these "polygamists". I've yet to see a single young abused girl. I'm sure if we wait long enough, they'll "plant" something on these people.

scott | 10:31 p.m. April 13, 2008

hey remember how this all started, with a phone call from a girl who was 14 married to a 60 something man. truth be told it was probably a fake phone call, the feds have been tearing it to bits for years trying to figure out how to get in there, now they have some phone call but havent been able to find the girl or the old man, sound a little funny to you it does to me

david | 10:39 p.m. April 13, 2008

Polygamy is illegal. We can debate the merits of it, but it's illegal. What more is there to debate? If you don't like it, write your congressman (as if he cares).

Comments continue below

Joseph | 10:39 p.m. April 13, 2008

The polygamist embarrassment has gone on long enough in our country and now is the time to put an end to the brain washing of women and children by evil men for their own ends. Before you start saying mindless and ridiculous things about a police state and calling people Nazi's, read some of the books by the women who have escaped the FLDS church.

FLDS are the Nazi's, not the police who are doing their job, not the people who care about the children. I've seen the pictures of the beaten children on the news, I've seen the cases tried in the courts, and the convictions of child rapists who call themselves Men of God.

The time has come for the FLDS church's sinful and barbaric ways to come to an end.

Jimmy | 10:37 p.m. April 13, 2008

**And the best their defenders can do is say: "Other people abuse too!"**

The point being is that the "other" people are never called to account for the abuse.

RC | 10:44 p.m. April 13, 2008

Notice whenever the police raid a home or a Church with the help of the media they change the names of these homes or Churches to a "compound". This supposedly legitimizes their Nazi actions.
I am ashamed of my government. No better than a banana republic.

Mick | 10:38 p.m. April 13, 2008

What you do not hear is that these "poligamists" are only "legally" married to one woman. How is that any different that someone who has kids with more than one person? I do not agree with poligamy, but I have more respect for someone who fathers kids with different mothers and stays there to support them than I do for the million of others who don't. The difference is that it is easy to point fingers at "them" as being "abusive" because they are a religious sect, but then ignore the deadbeats having kids out of wedlock and not sticking around, which are far worse.

cricker | 10:50 p.m. April 13, 2008

since the 1953 raid on short creek Arizona there hasn't been such an abuse of constitutional rights. We pride ourselves here in AMERICA on certain inaliable human rights, such as freedom of religion.
1. Amendment #1 Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.
2 As Americans, we think it's a tragedy what's currently happening in Tibet, but we willingly accept this horrible violation of human rights in our own country, shame on us!!!!!
3. Amendment #4 speaks of the right of people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects against unreasonable searches and seizures etc.
The state of Texas will lose this fight. America should be embarrassed and ashamed for allowing such an absolute violation of civil rights.
Where is the A.C.L.U in this matter? The FBI wasn't called in to raid the Catholic church when there were a few rotten apples in their group, why should this be any different? Target those that are at fault and leave the rest alone! It is disgusting that dogs are given more rights than these people.

ed | 10:46 p.m. April 13, 2008

This seem so much like the fate of the "Branch Dividians"...This just another example of governemental abuse of the rights of Christians...had this same Nazi-type taactic been applied to anyother sect, the news media would have never allowed us to hear the end of it!

May God have Mercy on us all..and may he protect these FLDS familes as they attempt to find recourse the legal system...and should the government fail toprove its case, I pray a jury will award them billions in punative damagees. ANd the overzealous bueaucrats be fired on the spot!

Anonymous | 10:52 p.m. April 13, 2008

What is WRONG with you people. These so called MEN are abusing young girls for there own gratification!

richwill | 10:49 p.m. April 13, 2008

The only difference between this and Waco is that the government burned Waco and the people. Seperatting children from their mothers is wrong. I agree with the concept to arresting the men and leaving the women and children on the compound. I find it egregious that people cannot punish a child, but the state can tear a family apart. Does the word traumatize have a meaning in this situation?

harold | 10:55 p.m. April 13, 2008

((When the authorities as the "mothers" to identify their chilren; they went silent, instead. Maybe, a dumb lawyer told them that trick?))

No one is required to testify or provide evidence against themselves... even in the streets of a "compound."

ChurchOfJesusChrist.Net | 10:51 p.m. April 13, 2008

Things like this haven't been done since the Nazis: just to come in and round up a whole town based on a group's religion, and trumped-up charges. LDS denominations are historically the most-persecuted religion in this country.

My hope is that they've screwed it up big-time enough to really get some recompense for these people! Just like in the 50s, the gov is gonna turn the public to the REAL victims' side.

This will either probably end with a big ca$h check to the REAL victims--that community--or end in a hail of bullets or consuming fire. These ppl have nothing left to live for anymore. It's silly to think these ppl will continue to put up with this BS indefinitely if no one stands up for them. I bet that's just what the government wants. Itching for another fight, hungry after 13 years from Waco? To see if they can snuff out another entire religion in a fit of violence (to "protect the children"! ah! yes--of course!), even if it be a smallish misfit religion. Just for the thrill.

Maybe your religion or community is next. Where are there not abusers?

WHY NOT CLOSE ALL PUBLIC SCHOOLS W/UNDERAGE PREGNANCIES?!!!

Allen | 10:57 p.m. April 13, 2008

Um, there WAS no 16 year old pregnant girl calling for help from a cell phone. That was a very simple harrassment technique .. the equivalent of anonymously reporting that a neighbor (or school board member) you don't like has child porn on their computer or are beating their wife. By law, the authorities HAVE to respond even though the accusation is anonymous. Let the lawsuits begin. Although 'progressive' judges have re-interpreted it for the 'greater good, the Constitution explicitly forbids anonymous accusations and this whole episode is a reminder of why.

KrisGill | 10:58 p.m. April 13, 2008

What people are noticing, I hope, is that CPS practices are entirely able to circumvent rights defined in the name of the constitution.

Jim Eagle Feather | 10:53 p.m. April 13, 2008

I was shocked that the mother's and other Mormons were shocked. The authorities have been acting this way for now up to 35 years. Likely even before most of these mothers were born. I see they are in the dark about the news or even old news about this nation. They think this is 1960 or something. Have not not heard about Ruby Ridge where a mother was shot out from under her baby (that she held) by an FBI sniper? And their pleas to America - they might as well spit on a forest fire, as much good it will do them.

theyshouldnotdoths | 11:02 p.m. April 13, 2008

This reminds me of waco I am so suprised that they did not ask janet reno back in for techniques on how to burn the place down. Why go after our own people when our unguarded borders are teaming with terrorists tying to sneak in.
theyshouldnotdoths

Linda | 11:04 p.m. April 13, 2008

Savages - they're nothing but savages. If they want to be heathens and practice polygamy, well fine, but not with children present.

Disugusting.... | 10:58 p.m. April 13, 2008

What law has THIS mother broken? These poor children are being raped by the very establishment that is aiming to protect them. Who is to say their religion is wrong? If there is abuse, then get THE abuser. This sounds so fishy anyways. Wher eis the girl that made the accusation. Did they prove she was even there? They should have gotten HER only and then determined what was going on. THIS MAKES ME SICK! SAVE THE CHILDREN..FROM US!

Jim | 10:58 p.m. April 13, 2008

Another Waco-style disaster created by liberal- and power hungry law-enforcement -officials in the making. The only abuse and neglect I can see here is on the part of the government. What happened to facing your accuser? The Governor needs to step in and stop the madness now.

Dee | 11:02 p.m. April 13, 2008

It is Illegal to practice polygamy in the USA.
It is Illegal for a man to impregnate a minor(really a child themselves) in the USA. Thats called Statutory Rape. In my book it just plain Rape. Someone needs to pay! Texas has done whats best for these young Children in getting them out of that environment. The proof of these mens Sin is in the bellys of these young girls.
Now mysteriously some of these mothers appear with tears trying to rally support from the people of the USA for their sins. Where were these mothers when the raid was going on? Now days later they come home to check on their children? Give me a break. Sure a mothers love runs deep, but a mother that would want one of her 13 yr old daughters to be impregnated by a 60 yr old man has gotta be sick in the head. Im sorry but that is cold hearted.
Laws have been broken, both judicial and moral....God Bless Texas for caring about America and little Children.

nmorris | 11:15 p.m. April 13, 2008

I too am concerned about the abuse that young adolescent girls and boys face in this sect. But is it right to wrench the young toddler childern away from their mothers? What harm are we doing to these kids by separating them from their mums. If this had happened to me when I was a child, I don't think I could ever have recovered. I think the government has gone too far.

Is there someone we can contact to help these poor children? My heart just aches for them.

. | 11:18 p.m. April 13, 2008

I'd imagine if the alleged accuser is still alive, and in state custody, that there are very good reasons for not parading her before the media.

Jane | 11:15 p.m. April 13, 2008

I feel so sorry for these children, forced into having sex with dirty old men with multiple wives sounds like a horror story. I hope the govt finally puts a stop to this sex abuse.

Joe | 11:18 p.m. April 13, 2008

This makes me sick. How can they separate families like this? What country do we live in? Even through the many things our government has done, this it the first time I have questioned whether we are free any more.

It is a sad day for these families and an even sadder day for America.

MR. Gail | 11:34 p.m. April 13, 2008

When the law breaks the law. Then there is no law!

Paul | 11:36 p.m. April 13, 2008

Not knowing the extent to which certain unusual practices were "forced" it is hard to comment on how I want this case to resolve. What I do know is that the Government has taken upon itself to ignore the rights of individuals and groups.

Widespread abuse of the scale that warrants the forced removal of hundreds of children couldn't be hidden or destroyed. At the very most, if sufficent reason existed to believe the teenage girl's calls were genuine a detailed search of the ranch would have been in order.

Not this.. Not in America

Lisa | 11:41 p.m. April 13, 2008

I cannot believe when I read people say Texas is "violating these freaks' constitutional rights." Child RAPE is not a right, it's a horrendous crime. Dont mess with Texas, and dont mess with kids.
Americans should be and are permitted to worship whatever Diety they choose. They should even be permitted to have their stupid "plural families". Just dont rape young girls.

yosif | 11:42 p.m. April 13, 2008

No one has proven to why having multiple wives is a crime. Sure, I understand we live in a Constitutional Republic and we are under duress to live by the laws. I dont mean to shatter your comfort but just because something is a law doesnt mean its right or that a valid study was done to support the need for such a law. The only thing I can tell is Utah was forced to drop polygamy in order to join the union. Thats simply not proof in as of its self. Please educate me and Im not looking for your opinion. I want proof.

ron | 11:52 p.m. April 13, 2008

Take the children to San Fransicko and bring them up among the wierdos there??? It's no wonder that this group wants to be secluded. All you have to do is look at TV for a day and you'll see more depravity than you'll see in 10 years on that FLDS compound. If you want to charge someone. Charge the men, --after you have proof. Texas is the 'Wild West. Not as wild tho' as SF. This is becoming a Godless country. Surely there has to be a reckoning some day. The whole thing is sick. Pity all those little children.

blackhawk | 11:58 p.m. April 13, 2008

Why weren't all the Catholic schools closed down when the priest scandel broke?

joe shmoe from U.S. | 11:59 p.m. April 13, 2008

Well, I'm not big on the whole combine thing, but it looks like there is very little proof so far as to a mass child abuse thing going on there. Maybe it was just one isolated incident, so the question is..will the state now take every child that lives on the same random street as one who was abused? This looks like a case of discrimination against religion, which is supposed to be free here.

Bill | 12:02 a.m. April 14, 2008

How is polygamy any different than someone getting married 3 times and having children in each relationship? Or even having children outside of marriage with several partners? Isn't the end product the same?

Maybe someone should target some politician with children and call in some claim similar to this situation? Or perhaps target one of the posters above?

Indeed, this is very much like 1938 Germany. The masses site idle while Marxism disguised as good intentions march forward unopposed.

Me | 12:11 a.m. April 14, 2008

I attended Jordan High School in Sandy in the late 60's and early 70's. There was a compound of Jeffs who lived up 9400 S. not far from the mouth of the canyon. We had a lot of the Jeffs and Allred kids who attended school with us. Most of them did well in school and graduated with the rest of us in their class. My how these groups have changed, I understand they don't educate the girls past the 8th grade now...how sad. I guess that's one way to have submissive women.

RG in Arizona | 12:56 a.m. April 14, 2008

I notice that the terms Nazi and Hitler are thrown about already. And now:
"If anyone knows what the constitution says, knows that this search was illegal, as was the subsequent removal of these children."

Sorry but both state and county courts issued warrants. It is to be determined if they were correct. Quite a few of us know our Constitution well. Emotions run amok do not help.
But following Warren Jeff's actions in Arizona we do know several women trying to leave his compound has disappeared. I have had the privilege of assisting a run away bride from Colorado City. Their lives are hard and not at all akin to the Amish or Mennonites.
Let's keep the emotions in check and let this play out in the courts. All involved will get their say.

Mud Flap | 1:15 a.m. April 14, 2008

Before you judge whether or not the authorities in Texas were right or wrong in their actions against the FLDS compound you should read "Escape" by Carolyn Jessop, one of Merrill Jessop's many wifes, who was born and raised to believe in plural marriage. Carolyn Jessop tells a story that will shock you! The FLDS is nothing more than an American Taliban the way the abuse women and children and claim that the edicts come from God directly to their prophet. I dare you. Read that book!!!

PrairieVoice | 1:15 a.m. April 14, 2008

I've seen cases where immigrant families practice polygamy. They avoid prosecution by calling the extra wives "aunts". Would authorities also go after them?

London, England | 1:34 a.m. April 14, 2008

The papers here sure have got the story scewed. This story's half way around the world. Sympathy seems to be building for these people. I wonder if this might back fire with your local Government and national government. Awful abuse of power, and the Judiciary Branch of government seems to have no moral or constitutional base in Texas. American citizens really should be a bit more alarmed about this. They seem to be having a bit of yawn session instead of a support rally.

Jim from MD | 1:46 a.m. April 14, 2008

Is your church government approved? It appears the lessons of Waco are now forgotten. I don't like the tone of the media which is from day one has demonized these people with code words like compound and cult. Remember that this country was founded by religious extremists. Its part of our fabric.

The unspoken criticism I hear in these media reports is that the government is upset that FLDS is teaching their kids that their first loyalty is not to the state. Beyond that they are criticized for being self sufficient, fertile, and dowdy dressers. The media goes nuts over the polygamy and patriarchal authority aspects while it blindly supports gay marriage, homosexual teachers, and criticizes the Boy Scouts for keeping poofters out of their ranks. The FLDS has a right to be secretive about their affairs. People have been hounding or killing them for 175 years for their non mainstream beliefs.

I don't think the 16 year old girl will ever be found. She never existed in the first place. I could see through the smokescreen from day one.

Finn Nielsen | 1:55 a.m. April 14, 2008

An observer from Helsinki, Finland writes: History will compare the taking of these children from their families to the taking of native American children from their families or the taking of aborigine Australian children from their families ... a horrible example of cultural arrogance ... a human rights atrocity.

Anonymous | 2:02 a.m. April 14, 2008

so marrying 50 year old uncle bob,when you're 14 is totally cool with you people . NO!

Jeffrey | 2:04 a.m. April 14, 2008

What's wrong with this picture is that pedophilia
becomes systems, couched in terms that this is the
Lord's wish. Which no one can ever argue you against. So very young girls are taught to endure
sexual contact with relatives, even fathers, and
people even have to wonder why a government would
have the right to step. Comparing what the Texas
authorities did to Nazis shows an apparent ignorance
about Nazi atrocities. The Nazis took your children
away and gassed them. Hardly whats happening in Texas.
At the end of the story, the founding men of this
church thought this would be a good way to sleep with young girls and God bless us for it.

PFinman | 2:09 a.m. April 14, 2008

The events in Texas match my personal experience with child protective services, the county sheriff, and the school attendance review board in the Conejo Valley Unified School District in Ventura County California. I am a homeschooling parent with a PhD in EE from Stanford University and a BS in Physics from MIT. The CVUSD designated my 8-year-old son a "habitual truant" and presented absolutely terrifying police force to him and his mother. When my child responded to this terror by crying and vomiting, the school district dropped my child from school rolls and pretended he did not exist. Since then, my "habitual truant" received an $80K merit scholarship at Johns Hopkins University when he was 17 and he is just now graduating with his MS in computer science. I predict that the dishonesty and abuse of child protective services towards some of the best parents will have catastrophic social consequences. Those children will remember being taken from their families for the rest of their lives.

Bryan Abbott | 2:09 a.m. April 14, 2008

Fear not! These kids will be ingesting MTV, HBO and the internet in no time. If they just dive into our multi-cultural philosophies and accept that having two moms or two dads is A-OK but having one dad and two moms is wrong, then we will cure what ails them. What they really need is a steady diet of moral relativism, poor manners and a complete lack of motivation. Just think of the progress they will make once we teach them to hate Christianity and to worship musicians and bumbling idiot actors. Maybe we should be happy they didn't cook the kids like they did in Waco? Seems we didn't learn any lessons last time. God bless these kids and God help their families. And if any of the men are guilty of child abuse, prosecute them. Certainly good families have been destroyed in this unconstitutional pursuit of "Justice" Shame on Texas. Shame on that judge!

Angela | 2:14 a.m. April 14, 2008

Before you get outraged by the removal of children & women, wait until you see the evidence presented at the trial. There is a big difference between manipulating, frightening or forcing young children into a life of subservience and sexual abuse and freedom of religion. The Texas authorities are doing the right thing - giving many who are too scared to speak up, an opportunity of getting out of that judgmental environment where you are not allowed an opinion of your own, you are forced to agree with old, perverted men. Let them get out of that and start putting things into perspective. When the investigation is over, those that are innocent may return. Those that have committed crimes will be dealt with fairly, by a jury of their peers. Justice is finally being done. The older perverts have freedom of religion. Imagine a 13 y/o girl in this sect. No options, no say over her future. If she disagrees, forced & blamed. Allow HER freedom of choice. She has no outside education or support to get away from it. This raid & investigation is overdue. God bless Texas authorities.

howard hofelich | 2:27 a.m. April 14, 2008

This is a crime committed by government. We need to clean our government out of all these do gooders who want to make gay marraige the norm. I am a Catholic but I fully support the FLDS and I hope they sue the bejesus out of Texas and win.

Steven | 3:19 a.m. April 14, 2008

The people at YFZ Ranch keep talking about how they cant believe this can happen in America?

WHAT ABOUT THE WAY THEY CUT THEIR CHILDREN OFF FROM THE OUTSIDE WORLD AND FORCE THEM INTO THIS LIFESTYLE?

It doesn't seem like the freedom they are asking for is being given to their own children. Marrying off underaged girls into a polygamist relationship(which is illegal in every state they operate) and teaching young boys that this is the only way they will go to heaven is wrong. Its fraudulent. And while this kids and the women and children will suffer, they have to due to their brain washing, it will help some others get out and stop the repeated cycle.

Makes you wonder | 3:25 a.m. April 14, 2008

So did I miss the story where they took the boys away from the catholic priests? Or the one where they took the Muslim kids away because they had more than one wife?

Peter Gee, Nairobi, Kenya | 3:29 a.m. April 14, 2008

It is incredibly ironic that the Daily Mail in England is leading a charge of demonizing the situation of the FLDS in this ranch incident, whilst at the same time turning a blind eye to Britain allowing "creeping sharia" in government mandated programmes to pay welfare to up to four Muslim wives and allow Muslim wives to join another wife if both come from abroad.

The Government is extremely wrong to separate these children from their mothers and a gross abuse of Government power. They have the right to look into allegations of sexual abuse, but not to destroy the lives and relationships of women, children and whichever men are innocent.

I'll bet the majority of those on this forum who are attacking the FDLDS are themselves totally ambivalent over Muslim polygamy and if from the left, would never dare tell a Muslim that their religious family life is an "abuse" etc and support abortion, state fosteriung and other anti-family programmes. Hipocrites.

Amish, Mennonites etc who wish to leave in peace away from the world should be allowed to do so as long as direct abuse is not involved.

a critic | 3:45 a.m. April 14, 2008

nice pictures of hands. they are so informative. so different from any other hands. bravo.

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