Deseret News | First look inside YFZ Ranch

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First look inside YFZ Ranch

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Robert | 9:00 p.m. April 13, 2008

It's another Waco Texas, Ruby Ridge, or countless other crimes perpetrated upon innocent people who are deemed "different" by the federal, state, school, local and county governments .. The problem is the folks in the FLDS compound took hold of their valises and boarded the boxcars without complaint. Didn't something similar happen maybe sixty years ago in Europe somewhere? Oh, I should have known--- the raid was for the good of the c-h-i-l-d-r-e-n. Now that the children are under direct government ownership, they'll never be abused ever again.. poor things...

Remember Jane Reno | 9:07 p.m. April 13, 2008

Interesting.. remember Janet Reno using the fbi to grab the boy from Cuba so he could be sent back to be with his father, and essentally brainwashed for life. Our government did this with no knowledge of his home in Cuba, yet our government breaks up American families?? While polygamy is wrong, it is also wrong to strip children from their parents. This must be investigated by all sides and the children who were not abused need to be returned to their natural parents NOW.

Lewis | 9:03 p.m. April 13, 2008

I see where terms of common law marriage, polygamy, spiritual marriage. When these women/child brides go to apply for social services/welfare and 'free' subsidies, how are they labeled? Single mothers. How honorable of these male abusers. Not only do they abuse, but they committ fraud and from the reading of these posts, apparently have gotten away with it with many tax payers blessings!

Comments continue below

sarah | 9:10 p.m. April 13, 2008

It's outrageous. It's only because these people live outside the society that is controlled and monitored by our police state.

I don't agree with this lifestyle, but I don't agree with the gangbanger lifestyle, the slacker lifestyle, the surfer lifestyle, the city-slicker lifestyle etc. But as long as people live within reasonable laws, they should be left alone. Polygamy is a choice between consenting adults.

NOW, in cases like the single one reported, yes, law enforcement should intervene. But this blanket attack on a community should not be tolerated by a just nation.

Michael R | 9:09 p.m. April 13, 2008

King Soloman, who God favored, had 700 wifes. What's the problem? What ever happened to freedom and independence for God fearing, quiet people in this land of the free? If a teenager got raped then arrest the perp. Why do jack booted Texas thugs arrest innocent women and children who weren't hurting anybody? Taking babies away from their mothers? What is this? Nazi Germany?

Patrick | 9:05 p.m. April 13, 2008

At least the Government Storm troops did not burn these women and children out like Janet Reno did in Waco. Who's next. Maybe the authorities might not like what the catholics are doing, or maybe it will be the Baptists. Maybe it will be you.

Lewis | 9:05 p.m. April 13, 2008

How about the sixteen year old who called authorities back in March, does anyone know where she is? Doesn't this worry anyone? This outfit sounds more like a mafia operation all the time.

dukas | 9:05 p.m. April 13, 2008

There is something not right with what the Texas authorities did. I spent may years in Arabia they also take many wives. Iï¿½ve heard not griping about that. We get our oil from them and the government deals with them everyday. Maybe we should insist that our goverment not deal with Arabs.
Where were the warrants of particulars? Something really stinks. Didnï¿½t they learn from Waco, or are we really slaves serving at the whims of authority. The great American experiment seems over. With lies being bantered about as truth, and elitists seeking to control all others, with the excuse of socialism. I do not like what these cops did at all, I hope someone sues the pants off them.

kitty hogan | 9:07 p.m. April 13, 2008

Oh good grief....come into the year 2008. Stop making little girls get married and have 8 kids! Let these kids have a normal life with FREEDOM...the men who run this phony church all seem to be perverts...........do what's right for your babies and stop believing the nonsense this "church" preaches.............

Robin | 9:17 p.m. April 13, 2008

It was very telling that they took away the children in Baptist Church vehicles.

BMOC2001 | 9:15 p.m. April 13, 2008

Maybe since the Texas Rangers are practiced up on raiding Churches they can now ransack the Catholic Churches in Texas and remove all of the altar boys into State custody. I'm sure that would go over well. I don't agree with the FLDS, but if you agre going to raid every Church with a sex scandal be prepared to face a long legal fight with numerous Church/State ethical questions. You'd think after Waco, Texas would have learned a few things.

Fact vs. Assumption? | 9:20 p.m. April 13, 2008

We jumped into Iraq based on the assumption there were WMD. Texas Ranges ripped children from their parents based on assumptions. Texas seems to generate a mind-set of act first and think second. Clearly abusers needs to be punished and punished harshly. There had better be compelling facts to back-up the actions of ripping all children from their mothers...

Astonished | 9:18 p.m. April 13, 2008

I'm just glad that this wasn't in Waco, Janet Reno wasn't involved and there was no fire.

Anonymous | 9:18 p.m. April 13, 2008

As a God fearing person, I believe Jesus is crying about how these people can call themselves Christians. It sickens me that these people think they are doing God work when they are forcing 13 year old girls to have sex with 50 year old men. All people are evil and you can not escape that by being in a compound and cut off from the rest of the world.

What they are doing is RAPE, and no amount of "understanding" will undo that.

B Young | 9:24 p.m. April 13, 2008

They should have stayed in Utah, where their polygamist lifestyle is mainstream, legal and approved of.

responsibleformyactions | 9:20 p.m. April 13, 2008

I just think it is to early to make a judgement. If one little girl was abused the it was worth it. I say wait and see and hold judgement until then.

Alek Hidell | 9:26 p.m. April 13, 2008

Brainwashed women raising brainwashed children, all the result of a few sexual-perverted men hiding behind the cloak of religion, who want to sleep with teenagers and slap them around from time to time for the fun of it.
And we thought muslims were bad . . .

kdogz13 | 9:32 p.m. April 13, 2008

If there is any chance of children being sexually abused then something has to be done. The parents that voluntarily marry their young daughters to old men are brain washed and not looking out for the best interest of their daughters.

Bob | 9:32 p.m. April 13, 2008

What I'd like to know is: Where is the 16 year old that made the complaint? If they don't have her, then they don't have any legal basis for doing their legal illegal raid. Where is the complainant?

I think in the end Texas will end up paying through the nose for this travesty. Is it just the first of many trials to see how far they, Texas, can go in taking away religious freedom?

Shadowcaster | 9:27 p.m. April 13, 2008

America is lost.

gunnut | 9:34 p.m. April 13, 2008

Make no mistake. This action was not necessarily to protect the children. It was an excuse for a deeper motive of the Government of Texas. The action, like Waco, was an effort to stretch and test the limits of the Texas constitution and the Constitution of the United States. Also, the first amendment does say that CONGRESS shall MAKE NO LAW, regarding the ESTABLISHMENT OF RELIGION. I don't believe the government has the right to tell any faith they can't practice polygamy. What it can do is protect prosecute people for hurting others. NO PROOF HAS BEEN BROUGHT FORTH in this case. The FLDS's culture is diffent than the vast majority of the rest of America. That doesn't make their culture bad. Just different. If they are breaking laws concerning rape, statutory rape, physical abuse, incest and or marriage before coming of age, then the State of Texas can do something. Otherwise, leave'em alone. I agree that the men should've been taken off campus, leaving the women and children there.

Dennis | 9:32 p.m. April 13, 2008

Oh by the way Pat (7:30 a.m. Apr. 13, 2008);
Polygamy is not a religion; it is a cultural practice where a man has two or more wives.
That fact that this group cloysters and brain-washes their children and then has 13 year old girls marry old men has nothing to do with polygamy.
And another thing; do we see anybody complaining about the atrocities perpetrated on women and children in Islamic countries? These are most horrendous but of course we can't say anything because that might be contrued to be Islam-a-phobic. But it't alright to bash people if they are in anyway identified as christians, however remotely.

A.J. | 9:37 p.m. April 13, 2008

The children should be taken away from their mothers as well since the mothers support having their under 16 year old daughters wed older men in a pologamy marriage arrangement. The moms are sex abusers of the girls as much as the older men. Like it or not, none of those kids are going back to their parents.

What do.... | 9:37 p.m. April 13, 2008

these Beautiful Women see in these men? How could they have such strong control over these women? What a sad sad deal...

Scott | 9:43 p.m. April 13, 2008

Outrageous! How can we stand idly by and let this happen in our country! Can we really let this happen in America? I will not, and cannot, think that we can seriously let this go without serious repercussions toward the Texas law officials who actually directed this action. Reprehensible! Who's next? The Amish, the Mennonites, the Mormons, the Jews, the Jehovah's Witnesses? Fear NOW for your country.

Bobbie | 9:38 p.m. April 13, 2008

Where are the men?? They are the ones who broke the law.ï¿½ Saw a expose' on TV a couple of years ago about these pologimist.ï¿½ The men have 12,14,16 children, from several different wifes, and they are all on welfare. The women won't say who the fathers are, and the state pays welfare.ï¿½ The women are brainwashed by the men and so are the children. I do not want my tax dollars to pay for a mans "right" to have as many children as possible from several wifes.ï¿½ Do you really think that if wefare wasn't there, that they could afford to pro-create these days, like they do??ï¿½ Not to mention the insest that is rampent amoung the sect,first cousins married to first cousins,etc. and old men marrying young girls. The men have and love the power they have over the women and children, and they love having the power of multiple sexual relationships for themselves. What happens if one of the women decided they want muliple relationships with other men ??

wrz | 9:45 p.m. April 13, 2008

"Don't forget that they found a bed inside the temple to consummate the marriage. That's just wrong."

Then they should have arrested and sequestered the bed for being complicit.

Darren | 9:47 p.m. April 13, 2008

I hope at least some of these kids now have a chance to live a normal life, something they didn't have before...it might be hard on the kids for a while, but children adapt quickly and cope well with change...

BTW- maybe they'll be able to go the movies or play baseball for the first time!

Anonymous | 9:48 p.m. April 13, 2008

Don says it so well
Reading the vicious comments over the past few days,
it clearly portrays the hatred that sits just under
the surface in peoples hearts. Punish the offending individual, if the facts are there. But to destroy an entire community is beyond the pale.The Native Americans know exactly what is being done in Texas.
In the late 1800's, this same "Program" being used
against these people today, was used to "Deprogram"
the Indians, and break them from the "Old Ways", of
their people. They were ripped from their families,
and sent far from them. They were not allowed to even speak their own language, of worship as they belived. History is repeating itself. Now the story
is coming out, that the purported phone call, may have been a hoax. If this proves true, then what. Will the State of Texas change their story as to why
they conducted themselves in such a tawdry manner, and how will they justify themselves. At least in Waco, Texas and the Feds got to burn up the evidence.

K. Wright | 9:45 p.m. April 13, 2008

I think the evidence lies in the pregnant bellies of so many minors who are already parenting multiple children at 16 and 17. I am proud that Texas has rescued these children from predatory men and women who look the other way, and/or aid and abet their crimes. Let's not forget the beds in the temple where these little girls were being raped. As one Texas trooper said, when you have a 16 year old girl, pregnant, with 3 other babies, well, you do the math. It is obvious there was a whole community working to groom these girls for their eventual rapes (it is rape in Texas), and then protect their attackers. In such an environment, it is not hard to consider the difficulties a young accuser would face in coming forward at this point. I don't think these complaining mothers will find much sympathy in Texas, and as far as suing the state--bring it on. We don't put up with this kind of crap in these parts. They got their 4 years of due process, and then we got the call that allowed us to move in and free the captives. God bless Texas!

COMMON SENSE | 9:46 p.m. April 13, 2008

Oh, some here want to grow rich by suing. While no seated judge is gonna just welcome in rabid lawsuits against the state. Sorry. Call it a big toss out the windah.

As to the "mothers" ... I seem to think that originally, birth mothers WERE NOT WITH THEIR CHILDREN! This Monica was "out." So, young mothers did get OUT of the compound. Leaving in charge women who call themselves "mothers."

When the authorities as the "mothers" to identify their chilren; they went silent, instead. Maybe, a dumb lawyer told them that trick?

The authority actually has VESTED POWERS. And, they proceeded against this cult. Good luck to ya on your lawsuits. Hey. You can go to Vegas with your winnings, and then really, really grow rich.

I feel sorry for the girls. As to the men, involved? Good luck trying to find them. A big clue, too, was the "mothers" with fake birth certificates. This cult knew how to protect itself; yeah.

wrz | 9:51 p.m. April 13, 2008

"And what about the Hundreds of lost boys that get sent packing every year because they are competition to the old bulls?"

Where's the beef? By what many have posted here they are the lucky ones for having "escaped."

No god | 9:47 p.m. April 13, 2008

nut jobs ... Polygamy is a crime. None of these people should ever get their children back

carm | 9:54 p.m. April 13, 2008

I've tried to write what needs to be said to all of this, but Anonymous said it so much better,
"Polygamy is wrong on many levels. If abuse is happening, it should be stopped. If underage marriage is forced, it should be stopped. However, in a society that allows (and often celebrates) gay relationships, gay "couples" adopting children, out-of-wedlock births and rampant divorce, for the government to punish every member of this society is ludicrous!"

In America we can have sexual relations with whomever we want, male or female, have children with whomever we want, in and out of wedlock, and it's not punishable by law. But get married to more than one woman and have children and it's worthy of a government raid. As anti-polygamy as I am (it makes me sick), there is something seriously wrong with the Texas government taking over 400 children from their homes. It's hard to believe that they were ALL being abused.

wrz | 9:59 p.m. April 13, 2008

>>The one thing that has confused me about this story from the start is how the grown women (not the girls) would continually tolerate the abusive system portrayed in the press.<<

Maybe it's not an abusive system. Maybe the press got it wrong. Maybe these women are perfectly happy in a polygamist society. They appear happy. Their kids seem happy and well adjusted. I'm sure they would prefer their kids live in their life style as opposed to what you might find in the ghettos of some of our larger cities.

Anonymous | 9:54 p.m. April 13, 2008

"I want the world to know that there is a nothing stronger than love and there is an inborn, God-given love between a mother and her children, and all a mother wants for her children is the very best" Monica said."

I can not believe how many people are supporting these women after the things they've allowed. The very best? Is the very best being secluded from the world, married off as a child, cast away as a teenage boy, given a high likelihood of a genetic disease because of inbreeding? Aren't all these things illegal? You can argue these things haven't been "proven." I say I've seen enough to make my mind up that this does occur at SOME level. It's darn sure enough to take these children into a safer environment for the time being.

I don't feel sorry for their crocodile tears. The ones not allowed to go should have spoken up about identities. Why so secret?

Kudos to officials.

Bucky | 9:57 p.m. April 13, 2008

What is wrong with polygamy? Aside from the abuses practiced by "religious" people, I can find no reason in my experience to deny any people the right to live as they please as long as it causes no harm to them or others.

Warping social norms of what constitutes harm for religious purposes (underage sex, statutory rape, etc.) is the only danger I see. If these people followed the law of the land instead of supposing that God wanted them to have sex with 13-year-olds, we would not have a problem with polygamy; it would be just another alternative lifestyle.

It seems more likely that it is the oddball religious aspects of the practice of polygamy that have always thrown it outside the mainstream rather than the practice itself.

Keep the Kool-Aid in the fridge and obey the law, folks.

jlb | 9:57 p.m. April 13, 2008

What have they done? They can't produce the alleged accuser and it seems to me their worst offense is dressing funny and getting married young. If that is against the law, let's start rounding up the freaking Muslims.

Jesse | 9:57 p.m. April 13, 2008

They need to appeal to both the governor (as they are doing) and John McCain. President Bush has nothing to lose at this point and John McCain will have to make a move!

The second amendment provides for a civilian check on excessive government. It is time for the leaders of our country to enforce some common sense or risk civilians taking up arms to defend themselves against such ridiculous actions by overzealous judges and police pawns.

I applaud the people of this church for their restraint but at some point there must be a time for action to take back their children.

Wake up America!

To John | 10:09 p.m. April 13, 2008

"1. If the mothers had answered the police, they would have been left with "their" children.

They refused to answer (as did the children).

It is their fault."

No one is required to answer any questions (even the Miranda Rights says they have the right to remain silent). And especially without the presence of their lawyer. And especially if they've committed no crime. The exception is, of course, if your in Nazi's Germany.

"2. Don't even try to compare these people with the Amish. There are two reasons to hide: to beark the law or to stay pure. They sure as heck weren't the latter."

Why not compare? Both groups want to be separated from the rest of the world... And apparently for good reasons.

greeting from CT | 10:11 p.m. April 13, 2008

Brothers & Sisters,

Ask the questions:

1) At what age were both the parents when the child was born?

2) How many half brothers and sisters does the child have?

I, for one, have zero doubt in my mind as to what will be found.

Do DNA testing to determine the true parents...
Map out the "family" trees...
End the speculation...

Certainly, you could ask the Mormons for helpï¿½.as the Genealogy records are quite rich.
The Family Search database must be of some value in this situationï¿½..if not, why would this be?

Lastly, I was in Utah during this raid and was absolutely shocked at the local news reporting. As an East Coaster, our friends in Texas are doing the right thing if it saves generations of children in the future, without question. Laws are laws, so I'm surprised at the emphasis on this story by local papers and the overall discussions locally at the time.

The ultimate step to recovery is admitting the problem, not hiding it. Wasnï¿½t this already agreed a century ago?

From Missouri | 10:13 p.m. April 13, 2008

Give me a break Texas. Lets follow the basic rights given to us by our constitution. Don't try and force you ways upon people with strange beliefs. If they're sexually abusing kids, arrest the pedophiles. Don't try and judge how parents are raising their kids. Only step in if their is a true victim like any other complaint that may be received.

Unreal, in America?

John George | 10:14 p.m. April 13, 2008

I am sure if nothing is found to substantiate the raid, something will be planted to ensure this doesn't come back on the government as a blunder. Remember Waco and Ruby Ridge.

EnoughProof | 10:15 p.m. April 13, 2008

Children who are pregnant and mothers who have had children when they were children themselves is plenty of proof for me. Molestation and grooming females for sexual abuse is very hard to get any proof of - think about it.

These woman are just another example of people being abused and perputrating that same abuse onto their off spring - Their perception is Skewed, read about it so you will know what you are talking about folks.... You are dealing with SEXUAL abuse victims when dealing with most of these parents - they are not the ones to be directing these innocent children's future - try to remember that!

Enough is Enough people. Thank God TEXAS drew the line....

Don't Mess with Texas!

Ross | 10:24 p.m. April 13, 2008

Sounds like we Floridians have lost Janet Reno to a higher calling!!!!!

Matthew | 10:24 p.m. April 13, 2008

Leave these people alone. If there are crimes, run them through the system. This is nothing but religous persecution.

All you self righteous types can just go fly a kite. Of course the good people of your state might decide that is wrong and take your children away. That would be "justice," NOT.

Liz | 10:20 p.m. April 13, 2008

We don't have all the facts. But if these are all the facts, Texas should be funding the FLDS for the next 20 years after losing a MAJOR lawsuit, so they NEVER violate family rights and privacy again. This is the most frightening thing, knowing some lib judge activist can order that my kids be taken from me because of some anonymous phonecall. That's spooky.

Anonymous | 10:27 p.m. April 13, 2008

I live in New York, am a Columbia University grad student, and have lived my whole life in liberal, secular America, but it hurts me to see children taken from their mothers to be put in state custody and create future monsters like all the failed liberal programs created here in New York. I hate the trumped up sexual allegations, too, that always fits into the whole demonization, Stalin, etc always used trumped up sexual charges. I really think it will be impossible in the future to live life as we see fit and not as some unelected commissars see it.

Vituperator | 10:29 p.m. April 13, 2008

"The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule."
- H.L. Mencken

Christian Mom | 10:29 p.m. April 13, 2008

You know, it's pretty sad that the women and children are being punished. First of all, even if a 13 year old girl got pregnant and gave birth to a child, the state would have absolutely right to take that child. What is the basis for these children being siezed and put into foster homes, with strangers, and then denying the mothers the right to see their children? Was it because of some alleged phone call from a 16 year old girl? She may have a point about what was being done to her, but how does that make it alright to take over 400 children from their mothers....because of the acts of one person? You know, if you want to get something done fast, don't bring in the courts or the feds, they'll take forever. The kids will be adults by the time they are returned to their mothers. Whoever made the decision to raid the place and separate those kids from their mothers should be prosecuted for overstepping their authority. This situation reminds me of the Waco incident, although it's not violent. It's was just as invasive, however, with all being punished because of one man.

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