Deseret News | First look inside YFZ Ranch

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First look inside YFZ Ranch

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Fred | 6:13 p.m. April 13, 2008

---Having sex with another besides your legal lawful wife and telling someone about it and having children by another woman is called, under the law "common law" marriage. You are married to more than one person.---

Let's see... So, if two high school kids had sex, had a child, and told someone (a parent, Priest, or counselor) about it they are married? Is that your point?

---I called it adultery.---

I call it a rather common occurrence.

Former Texan | 6:20 p.m. April 13, 2008

I've had close friends in Texas falsely accused and then abused by the Texas dept. of child protective services (whatever its exact name). Both families went through tremendous grief and fear because of false accusations.

In one case, their children played barefoot in the front yard of their home, and so a neighbor accused them of neglecting their children, and the agency threatened to take away their children. That was the full extent of the "crime" and the evidence, and they nearly lost their children.

So it comes as no surprise to me (or to Texans) that the state over-reacted so dramatically.

As egregious as polygamy and underage marriage is, Texas took the wrong action. They should have rounded up the men. But instead, child protective services got the call and sent in the cavalry.

Seriously, Deseret News | 6:27 p.m. April 13, 2008

No more "first name only" stories. For the love!

Perhaps it's all right to use a single-name source sparingly to crack open a story. Day after day, though? You've lost credibility, Deseret News, when you abandon journalistic ethics repeatedly.

Tell your news sources this: Tell me your first and last names, or your comments can't be used in the news. It's as simple as that. If the things they have to say are as important to them as they're saying here, they'll let you use it. If not, then why present this shoddy, ambiguous story to us?

If there are dozens of Monicas, Shannons, Andreas, Virginias with no last name out there clamoring to be hear by your readers, then tell them this, as well: You expect credibility in the public eye by requesting anonymity, yet you're asking us to deny the believability of an anonymous phone call from one of your fellow church members? GIVE ME A BREAK!

Comments continue below

Anonymous | 6:32 p.m. April 13, 2008

I think whatever this eventually costs will be worth it to get a look at what is happening inside these human puppy mills (as someone previously said). And I think it will be worth it to get a good look at the impotence of the LDS as they stand by and point fingers at FLDS while hoping no one will notice that that IS the teaching of Joseph Smith and Brigham Young that's turning the nation's stomach now as it did then.

Anonymous | 7:01 p.m. April 13, 2008

Listening to thest interviews, religion isn't the issue here. It is a cult, people's human rights are being taken away from them and they are fearful of the 'outsiders'. Young boys and men are chased off to leave the females to the older men. This is atrocious! Action is long overdue. These women and children in the shelters will not be there forever, there is work that needs to be done. As free citizens, we must support our freedom. These people are held by fear, alienation and punishment. If we don't keep citizens rights free, then we will all eventually suffer.

Anonymous | 7:12 p.m. April 13, 2008

I agree with 4:46. It is hard to feel sorry for these people.

They are perverse and corrupt with their sexual slavery and now they want to whine they are being mistreated by the immoral outsiders, denied of their rights.

I think we traveled that path before - 1861-1865. Sorry FLDS, this war, like the other, is one you are destined to lose. Get in line behind the Confederate flag wavers to complain.

Alf, Fred, others | 7:33 p.m. April 13, 2008

Having sex with a minor is against the law.
Whether you people think it's "spritual marriage" or not. It's an abuse of power.

Mike | 7:37 p.m. April 13, 2008

Leave it to the government to goof this up. As mentioned by others, why terrorize these children? Find the men clearly identified as abusive and haul them away.

Senior with Wisdom | 7:40 p.m. April 13, 2008

Since when is forcing 14 year old girl to have sex with men 17 years old or old enough to be her grandfather not a crime? Sure sounds like a lot of conditioning reflex and brain washing went on in this church.
Sure sounds like another Jonestown, right here in the US. Stepford wifes..just plain weird.

Tater | 7:44 p.m. April 13, 2008

Any mother who allows her minor children to be used in ritual sex is complicit in my opinion. I don't think the adult females should automatically get a free ride here. The adult women were not raised here. The news said this place was built in 2004. The grown adult women over the age of 22 have seen life on the outside. They should know better.

KP | 7:50 p.m. April 13, 2008

Why is our government in love with the idea of taking children away from their parents? Maybe because Marx loved the idea as well. One complaint is made by one child and yet over 400 children are confiscated like animals.
For all of you who are oh so happy that all of these lives have been destoyed, remember; next time it might be your child that is ripped from your arms forever. A Marxist government doesn't play favorites.

Kevin | 7:57 p.m. April 13, 2008

If this had been a bunch of eco-warriors or some other left-wing compound, the government wouldn't have touched them with a ten foot pole. Jim Jones operated his nut-house for years and nobody said anything because he was a good Socialist comrade and Christian-hater. Funny the media never talked about that, and yet they apply the Kool-aid cliche' to religious groups now.

Sarah | 8:02 p.m. April 13, 2008

I am sure these mothers love their kids but getting them out of this compound is the first step towards letting them live a life of freedom. We live in a society where we value choice, yet those women don't know what other choices they have. Good job law enforcement for finally stepping in!

wm | 8:03 p.m. April 13, 2008

it is simply astomishing to me that so many people are willing to defend institutionalized pedophilia.

torabora | 8:05 p.m. April 13, 2008

I wonder how many of those folks were getting government assistance. It doesn't look like there was any work going on. In fact the only "work" was probably making babies. Sick.

Jared | 7:58 p.m. April 13, 2008

Few thoughts:

1) I think one lesson we can learn from this is that there should be a NATIONAL Standard that dictates the age of marriage. Its interesting that young kids can get married before they can drink, vote or even drive. I think the national age of marriage should be 18 for both genders.

2) The Federal Government failed horribly in conducting the raid and unless they find the mystery caller...all evidence seized will be held illegal under the "Fruit of the Poisonous Tree" Doctrine.

3) Don't forget that they found a bed inside the temple to consummate the marriage. That's just wrong.

4) There's a HUGE difference between the LDS Church (headquartered in SLC) and the FLDS Church in TX. Please don't mix or confuse the two as being the same denomination.

Roy | 8:06 p.m. April 13, 2008

Whoever heard of a legal warrant being based on an annonynous phone call? This epidsode is a sickening display of abuse of power. The predominant religion of the area provided the buses that hauled the children away. So we have the principle of separation of church and state roundly abused by some very ignorant and ill advised people.

Diana | 8:16 p.m. April 13, 2008

They should ask the men to voluntarily switch places with the women and children until they can investigate matters and proceed accordingly. I can't see how they could arrest the men without an investigation. (Some of the men may not have any wives, or may have only one adult wife.) However, the men might willingly switch places, so that the women and children could return home. The authorities could continue to investigate the women and children on the ranch.

Sue Crisp | 8:14 p.m. April 13, 2008

Since Polygamy is agaimst the law, Why are the Muslims allowed to practice it? When are the police going to raid their homes & Mosques? To set the record straight. these people are not Mormons. Mormons have not practiced polygamy in 100 years or so.Also, I believe these people have the "RIGHT" to
worship as they please. This is guaranteed by our
Constitution. Or is the Constitution no longer relevant? These Baptist & Evangicals need to leave other Religions alone.They are just a bunch of busy-
bodies.

Anon | 8:14 p.m. April 13, 2008

I am more amazed at the blind defence of the pedophile, polygamist than I am of the original act. What is going on in FLDS compounds is plainly against the laws of the US, which do apply to the members of this church. Polygamy is a crime in the US and even the LDS church had a convenient revelation to ensure its statehood. It was tough for them, but hey they get to practice polygamy in heaven so it isn't all that bad for them.

No one in the US is above the law (except Mayor Kilpatrick in Detroit), even when they hide behind the warped beliefs of their "religion". Clearly the men of the FLDS should be locked up and if the women turn a blind eye as their daughters are sexually abused by predators at age 13 then they are equally guilty and should be arrested.

Save the children! Give them a chance to live without their innocence stolen by the practices of pedophile polygamists. No sympathy here for the mothers and certainly not for the fathers.

John | 8:22 p.m. April 13, 2008

Boo hoo,

If she wanted to keep her children she should have answered the police officers.

These people have no qualms in using the "police" in Colorado City/Hildale to do their nasty bidding; yet now they can't cooperate with a simple police question.

Inbreeding and teen marriages, lost boys and all this under the watch of Merril Jessop, the villain of the true-life story "Escape!" (by his ex-"wife").

I have no sympathy for these people.

These children deserve to be taken away and brought up in homes where they will learn that black people are not "monkeys" (gasp!), education is not a sin, and that the purpose of life is not to accumulate a many sex partners as possible.

David Mittelstadt | 8:24 p.m. April 13, 2008

How interesting that the government is so concerned for 400 children that it would remove them from their mothers, while looking the other way for decades as over 30 million children were murdered in a wave of genocide in this "free" country.

sad... | 8:25 p.m. April 13, 2008

Merrill Jessop is a liar... Just pick up the book ESCAPE written by one of his wives who did just that... The women undoubtedly love their children but they have no voice and must allow their daughters to be 'wedded' to these men old enough to be their grandfathers. (And what about the Hundreds of lost boys that get sent packing every year because they are competition to the old bulls?) These "husbands" have all the power... It's sad that it has come to this. I'm glad something is happening for these women and children who have no voice or a voice that speaks only what they have been taught to say.
Carolyn I'm praying for Betsy...

Jason | 8:30 p.m. April 13, 2008

Do Texans always shoot first and think later? They screwed up with Waco to... And child protective services has NEVER been a champion for children :-(

George | 8:33 p.m. April 13, 2008

Have they found the 16 year old girl? What if they don't find her or it is proven to be a hoax?

Does the government pay for the mistake? Why did they take all the children if they were just looking forr a 16 year old?

James | 8:33 p.m. April 13, 2008

Lucy, somebody got a whole lot a 'splainin' to do!

Due Process | 8:28 p.m. April 13, 2008

Usually, when a crime is alleged; a search warrant is served. When probable cause is found, the search warrant is expanded to match the new evidence. After the guilty are identified, they are arrested and the rest go about their lives.

In this case, we have a 'phantom' accuser. Now, there is this irritating little scrap of paper called the US Constitution that says that we have a 'right' to face our accuser. We are also living under the "innocent until proved guilty" type of law - except if you are FLDS.

If you are FLDS, you can have an unsubstantiated phone call cause 400+ people to be rounded up like animals, and forcibly separated. The parallel to Nazi Germany is uncanny. Instead of Jews being rounded up and shipped off, their property seized without charge or trial, we have the FLDS group.

Why bother with a trial? The papers have found them guilty, as have some people here. Is Warren Jeffs a criminal? Yup. But, he got his day in trial.

What ever they do to the FLDS, they can also do to YOU. I'd suggest we follow our Constitution, it's served us well for 200+ years.

robert | 8:29 p.m. April 13, 2008

One reader wondered how much government assistance these people were receiving. Likely no more than those living in New Orleans. As much as I disagree with their FLDS religious social practices they are known to be hardworking and independent. I would like to see how many Muslims in this country with multiple wives have their doors crashed in searching for evidence of child and spousal abuse. The law should be applied equally to all.

mm | 8:31 p.m. April 13, 2008

Read Escape by Carolyn Jessop. Published last year. Merril Jessop is a madman.

Michael | 8:34 p.m. April 13, 2008

These saints are just the newest victims of the New World Order. They are lucky that Janet Reno is not in charge, or they would have been burned alive as in Waco. These are moral people seeking privacy and peace. I don't share all of their beliefs, and you don't share mine. But I still believe in "due process of law." What we have here is the Iron Heel of Tyranny. These Mormons don't advocate gay marriage or serial divorces -- they advocate marriage, committment and family values. I have met polygamists and their happy wives. Although I myself wouldn't want to have multiple mothers-in-law, that is their business and not mine. I have seen more wholesomeness in polygamous households than I have in what passes for marriage in contemporary America. THOSE WHO LIVE IN GLASS HOUSES ------------------ SHOULDN'T THROW STONES!!!!

EDRO | 8:39 p.m. April 13, 2008

Buggery, prostitution, porn, adultery and other deviant behaviors are legal but POLYGAMY now that is a REAL crime.

M | 8:34 p.m. April 13, 2008

Religion is destroying civilization.. Anyone who defends polygamist practices must either be a woman who thinks little of her sex or a man. You may have the "right" to follow religious practices, but that doesn't give you the "right" to degrade women or abuse children.

gbj | 8:35 p.m. April 13, 2008

The one thing that has confused me about this story from the start is how the grown women (not the girls) would continually tolerate the abusive system portrayed in the press. It just seems impossible to believe that in a community this large, some women wouldn't come forward and demand an end to it. Maybe the reason is, the allegations aren't true, or that we aren't being told the whole story.
At this point, I really don't know who to believe. The mistake the government made at Waco was that, instead of simply arresting Koresh (which they had every opportunity to do), they forced a showdown with an entire community. I hope maybe they learned something from that.

2lazy2p | 8:42 p.m. April 13, 2008

the last time there was a raid in Texas of a religious camp the government burned women and children alive. At least the Dems were not in charge of this illegal raid.

Rick | 8:42 p.m. April 13, 2008

It is sad to see how many people are fooled by this groups play for sympathy. FLDS is not a religion. It is a criminal organization that traffics young girls and women into sexual slavery. When the children involved reach adulthood they deserve the same right to freedom and self determination that every other American has.

JR | 8:39 p.m. April 13, 2008

Polygamists are all pedophiles

Kittybugs | 8:46 p.m. April 13, 2008

Hellloooooo -- Earth to FLDS -- polygamy is ILLEGAL!! It isn't fair to the women or their children but I'm sure the men love it since they created it. These poor women are brainwashed from birth; they are not responsible for this travesty of a religion. It's always the men who have to have plenty of backups -- women know better. Remember, "gentlemen", what you sow is what you will reap. You should all pray that God is merciful because you men are all violating His will.

John | 8:47 p.m. April 13, 2008

Hal | 12:32 p.m. Apr. 13, 2008
===What I don't understand is why the FLDS were so secretive about their lifestyle?===

My guess is that they wanted to live apart so as not have their children influenced by the immoral world that we see around us.

===If it was so wholesome and God-fearing and honest and wonderful, why not just live in mainstream society and just practice your religion like the rest of the Christians do?===

Maybe for the same reason the Amish, Mennonites, etc., want to live apart.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

1. If the mothers had answered the police, they would have been left with "their" children.

They refused to answer (as did the children).

It is their fault.

2. Don't even try to compare these people with the Amish. There are two reasons to hide: to beark the law or to stay pure. They sure as heck weren't the latter.

Lewis | 8:41 p.m. April 13, 2008

Define the difference between a cult and a religion. A cult takes away human rights...if these leaders hadn't been so busy getting rid of the young men, abusing & brainwashing the women and children they wouldn't be a situation as now. These 'men' stole these peoples human rights! The people worked in the leaders 'businesses' without pay to proser the leaders and did not have a say in the matter. Read Carolyn Jessop's book, Escape. Then those of you who want to still say 'leave them to their own lifesytle' should have to go and live in it for awhile. Read Carolyn Jessop's book, she testified in the Warren Jeffs case...a tip of the iceberg.

Marie Mrow | 8:42 p.m. April 13, 2008

Sooo surprised that the state government is shocked, shocked that 15 year old girls are having sex and getting pregnant. Go into any city and any rural area and find untold numbers of teenage girls, victims of state-sponsored sex education and in-school birth control clinics, pregnant, caring for babies, no thought of a husband, no one supporting these girls or their children but the state. Who had more "choice" regarding their lifestyle -- the compound girls married off at young ages, or the young girls on the outside using their sex appeal for male attention?? Funny how one is intolerable to the state, where the other is heavily funded, and therefore, encouraged.

Tammi | 8:48 p.m. April 13, 2008

This sounds like a Nazi Germany. Lets also get it right they took all the kids people not just this 16 year old who supposedly called. So take all the pregnant ones leave the rest!
Does anyone really think they are better off at a foster home? These parents have a God given right to their children. And they are INNOCENT until proven guilty. Well that was I guess long past. We shoot first and ask questions later. If I was one of those mothers I would be sitting in jail right now because they would not have taken my kids w/o fight!
Oh the ones judging why they live the way they do...hmm do you also judge those with alt lifestyles. Live your life the way you want in the end God will be the judge. I believe in right and wrong. These people are not perfect but they have a right to live in peace. So what if they want to be separated from society. Sometimes I do to there are a lot of behaviors I do not want my kids immitating. Good thing I know my rights!

John | 8:51 p.m. April 13, 2008

commonsense1 | 4:24 p.m. Apr. 13, 2008
The inability of the FLDS to be honest and upright US citizens with something as simple as who their family members are, is indicative of the secretive, illegal practices and beliefs they espouse. The police evidence will show the abuses are more numerous than a few underage marriages.

It's time to turn on the lights and expose the injustices committed against the women and children of this closed community. The weak and cowardly male members (improper to call them men) of the FLDS group need to be rounded-up and prosecuted for their pedophilia.

================================================

Spot on.

These people are not "honest" at all!

They cannot even answer, in a straightforward manner, a simple question about who their family members are.

And the best their defenders can do is say: "Other people abuse too!"

Is that any justification?!! Are they serious!?

The difference between this and sexual abuse outside the ranch is that most people wouldn't come online to vehemently argue that sexual abuse outside the ranch is a "peaceful" activity.

Tx.girl | 8:51 p.m. April 13, 2008

Wake up people. Texas was already funding this "self reliant" home. These folks were receiving hundreds and thousands of dollars in welfare, WIC, etc. There is proof. And as to the Fathers and Mothers, they are laminting the loss of their children. Maybe when the officials said "whose children are these", they should have stepped forward. Instead they are "pleading" thier case in the media. And thier high powered expensive lawyers are now spinning "freedom of religion" garbage. Worship of God is not the issue. Making 16 year old girls and younger, marry 50 year old men is illegal, period. Having multiple wives is also illegal. Teaching your wives that it is okay to cheat the government because it is evil. Not the real issue of as a man...I have too many wives and children and I can't provide for them...that is just wrong on many levels... I feel for the children and for the many 14, 15 & 16 year old girls (not women) that are pregnant - it isn't good when you find out your parents lied to you, no matter how many mothers and fathers you have....

Disgusted | 8:58 p.m. April 13, 2008

My heart goes out to these mothers, and all I can say is God have mercy on the souls of the beasts who did this dastardly act! They WILL get their reward!

martha | 8:59 p.m. April 13, 2008

It is abusive to force a young girl to marry a middle aged man who has a bunch of other wives. How could any mother want that for her daughter unless she has been brainwashed to believe that is what God wants. This whole religion is just a hoax to give men the pleasure of having sex with multiple women, and in many cases practically children. I think they should have taken the men away and locked them up, and left the mothers and children together. Then had counselors come in and educate them about what rights they have and whether or not they really want to live this way - especially the young girls who haven't been married off yet. They also ought to teach these mothers that it is not exactly loving to have your sons sent away or deprived of a normal life just so that some middle aged pig can do what he wants without competition or so that the girls have no other option than to give their young lives to a selfish, sadistic egomaniac. This is America - where all people are supposed to have a right to the pursuit of happiness.

Read the Book! | 8:53 p.m. April 13, 2008

Those who scream 'Religious Persecution' need to read Carolyn Jessop's book "Escape" (then Jon Krakuer's "Under the Banner of Heaven"). Carolyn gives her personal story of what it was like to grow up in this 'cult' (as she calls it). After reading it, it sounds like the FLDS men (especially the self-proclaimed prophet, etc) have the perfect scam going. Scare the hell out of everyone (namingly the women & children) into a future of eternal damnation if they are not 'perfectly obedient' to their husbands/the prophet. These men have truly lost focus (if God really was it to start with)...they seem to worship the Almighty Dollar. This sect has millions...the women & children are forced to hand over anything they receive (welfare), live in poverty, therefore ensuring their EVIL leaders' pockets remain fat. The men, especially those 'in charge' should be the ones punished. I believe these women and children will definitely have a place in Heaven for all that they have endured and their abiding faith in God. I think that most of these men (Warren Jeffs and Merril Jessop, etc) deserve the opposite. They have truly perverted what it means to have faith in God.

Angela | 9:01 p.m. April 13, 2008

Why are men so controlled by sex that they would go to this length to get a constant access to the youngest of our girls? Makes me want to slap every man I see.

Pie | 9:01 p.m. April 13, 2008

I just hope the judge that issued the search warrent has credible grounds for it and did not do it as a favor or on pure hearsay evidence.
If you cannot trust a judge to follow the law then no one in government can be trusted.

joe a | 8:55 p.m. April 13, 2008

This article by Nancy & Brian is way off base. I have been in San Anglo a lot the last week. The people of Texas are taking very good care of the women and children. The men of this group are nothing but pediophiles. Nazi Germany my left foot.

anonomous | 8:56 p.m. April 13, 2008

wrz - 'I'm sure there are dirty old men lurking in perhaps Dallas, Houston, or Fort Worth. Do you see Texas law enforcement emptying those communities of all their children?'

I would hope in Texas and any other state the law enforcement would step in when 'fathers' and others are abusing women and children.

Read Escape by Carolyn Jessop.

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