Deseret News | First look inside YFZ Ranch

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First look inside YFZ Ranch

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comment 2 | 2:00 a.m. April 15, 2008

Let justice be served. The sheer magnitude of cases means that this isn't going to be over in a few days, but I believe the ones being hurt, the ones in danger of being hurt, will be saved. And those committing the crimes will be punished.
By the way, the crying mothers are just as responsible for the abuse as the men because they allowed it to happen. If a woman lets child abuse happen to her child in any other situation, they would be arrested & charged with neglect, if nothing else. Why should this be any different?

Stan | 5:40 a.m. April 15, 2008

This Texas government officials vs. YFZ FLDS religious zealots offers further support to my decision to abandon my returned LDS-missionary, temple covenanted past in favor of agnostic/atheistic belief. In this incident I see further proof that the worst atrocities of one group of humans against another are usually done "in the name of God."

Our Founding Fathers, the wisest of whom affiliated with no particular religion, advocated altering or abolishing a government that interferes with its peoples unailenenable right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

If polygamy were legal, then its supporters could practice in mainstream society rather than creating isolated communities of inbred, brainwashed believer. If prostitution were legal then the high-libido male could obtain a sexual balance to compensate for his partner's inadequacies without having to brainwash young girls to accept an pervert's desire. Abolish socialized transfer payments and then there will be no opportunity for welfare fraud.

In a society of true liberty, a productive, benevolent man should be allowed to care for all he is capable of. A dead beat could neither provide for nor attract any mates.

Liberty is natural.. give us liberty.

PROTECT OUR CHILDREN!!!! | 6:53 a.m. April 15, 2008

As I read this all that keeps going threw my mind is my three little girls. The idea of a 16 yr old BOY touching my 16 yr old girl makes me sick much less a 50yr old man. A song from my childhood keeps going threw my head.
PLEASE DON'T LET THEM HURT YOUR CHILDREN
WE NEED LOVE AND SHELTER FROM THE STORM
PLEASE DONT LET THEM HURT YOUR CHILDREN
WONT YOU KEEP US SAFE AND WARM.

THATS OUR JOB AS PARENT TO PROTECT ALL CHILDREN!!

Comments continue below

Wonderer | 7:44 a.m. April 15, 2008

I wonder when the government will wake up to the real threats to our society, and look in on other religions, sects, terrorist sympathizing organizations and their "beliefs". When will the government break in on the Muslims and separate the mothers from the children in the "sharia law" society? These FLDS folks aren't trying to gain control of society outside them as are the Muslims. Priorities need to be examined. I guess that all depends on who gets to set the priorities.

To cdub | 8:20 a.m. April 15, 2008

Get your head out of the sand. Waco is non-sequitur. The only comparison is the idiots at the head of both organizations. They're Wac(k)o.

How Polygamy Hurts My Child | 11:33 a.m. April 15, 2008

When I was a single parent having been left my child's father, I tried to get food stamps and temporary assistance so I could meet my child's special needs and find a way to start a home business to support us. My child's father had threatened to take my child to a foreign country if I named him as the father. So, I was reluctant to name him. I was told that I could not receive assistance if I did not name him. I was also told that my child could not be homeschooled if assistance were provided for him. But, the public schools could not meet his needs and refused to consider accommodations.

I am still a single mom and have been paying taxes for years, as I did before that brief period when I needed assistance. I am paying for those men's children that they won't acknowledge and for children of the women who choose to or are forced by men into polygamy such that they have too many children to support and don't work outside the home. I would like to stay home too, but I work partly to pay so they can.

calgal1211 | 2:32 p.m. April 15, 2008

If the state of Texas was looking at this ranch and gathering info for 4 years ..maybe they are guilty of child abuse by letting it go on for so long. But it seems that 4 yrs is a long time to decide to raid the ranch and only after someone made a snitch call. Judge not lest you also will be judged!

BF | 2:59 p.m. April 15, 2008

To Polygamy hurts my child-
Didn't you read about the hundreds of thousands of dollars those lazy buggers have been paying to government in property taxes alone?
What really hurts your child is having to grow up in a country where citizens so willingly give up the rights of "others" in the name of safety "for the children". "He who gives up essential liberty for temporary safety deserves neither liberty nor safety"

Mr. Ed | 3:30 p.m. April 15, 2008

I have been attempting to understand this situation based on an understanding of the fallen nature of humankind. Looking at the various players in the scene, for starters we have the polygamists accused of statutory rape. Unregenerated man throughout history has sought out sex with females of all ages, males, animal species, and inanimate objects. Is it believable that underneath all that pioneer charm and piety lurks machinery for the satisfaction of lust? Sure. We have CPS accused of vague, unspecified wrongdoing. CPS is widely considered to be as corrupt and inefficient as any other bureaucracy. Does CPS have a financial interest in increasing their clientele and their visibility? Sure. Then we have law enforcement. They are accused of acting on a whim, arresting and detaining all the wrong people, and violating their rights. Law enforcement is hanged if they do and hanged if they don't. For "rescuing" (detaining) 400 children, have they chosen the group that exposes them to the least risk? Sure. White nonconformist fundamentalists. Their selection of this group appears strategic. Society is conditioned to dehumanize groups such as FLDS by mass media. LE gets to appear brave while not offending vocal special interests. Not exactly brave.

Mao | 8:30 p.m. April 15, 2008

Hmong practice polygamy and marry underage girls.
US doesn't stop the Hmong.
Its only white groups that must be stopped from having children.

rj in cache valley | 10:35 p.m. April 15, 2008

The Texas "Authorities" entered the compound using a warrent that was based upon what appears to be a fabrication. The party accused in the warrent was known to law enforcement and in constant contact with an officer of the court over 800 miles away.

And now these 'Authorities" are attempting to terminate 400+ child/parent relationships?

There was no probable cause. A simple computer backgound search on the accused name would have yeilded the accused mans probation officer's phone number. One computer check on the name of the accused before a 100+ person blitzkrieg. Is that asking to much? NO! A single phone call to a probation officer before abducting 400+. Is that asking to much? NO!!

The Texas "Authorites" did not make a good faith effort to corroborate the grounds for the search warrent. QED the warrent was illegal and invalid.

What is next? I hope the Amish in Pennsylvania are hiring lawyers. I hope home-schooling parents who teach their children "Creation" are ready to loose their children. I hope all the LDS in this country are ready to have their temples searched because one of the "North Temple" protesters picked up a pay phone.

Jay | 6:14 a.m. April 16, 2008

Polygamy is already defacto legal in the US. Why else are all the babydaddys with multiple children by multiple women still allowed to roam the streets?
Like it or not there has also been a defacto repeal of the statutory rape laws as long as the acting male is also underage. We have legalized underage sex for children in imitation of chimps who practice play sex when young since of course there is no god, and we are all just smart animals anyway.
The fact that young girls lives are just as ruined by having a baby with a thirteen year old father as with a 50 year old father is overlooked by our society in the pursuit of some sort of mythic feminist quest for sexual parity. Which until men start having the babies is just that, a myth. If abuse took place the men need to be prosecuted, but by golly we better start locking up the baby daddies also. The law is supposed to apply equally to all, and it doesn't anymore.

Anonymous | 6:36 a.m. April 16, 2008

This entire situation was and is clearly being handled wrong. Assumptions, allegations, jumping to conclusions, acting on instinct, we are doing everything that law school and our constitution would consider unethical.

Motivations - I understand that - and I am a sociology major, I am usually fighting for the underdog, and agreeing when people disagree, but in this case, the prioity is backwards.

The priority should be the aspect or the practice of Polygamy. This is the main issue, this is what is causing poeple to see the "bad" things that are apparently going on, but the attention is directed to the wrong individuals.

Like a former commentor wrote, the Men should have been questioned from the begining. If we are worried about the children being abused and scared, our recent actions have only made that worse.

come on now officials, get with the program, is this how you would execute a large scale project in a corporation? No! It would be a mess. There is no planning, no structure, no order, and absolutely no regard for human rights! what the heck is that??? America - let's not give others ammunition to judge us more...let's THINK before we ACT -

Anonymous | 7:14 a.m. April 16, 2008

I say do all that you can to put an end to all sex cults.

Randy | 4:41 p.m. April 16, 2008

The DMN can practice all their un-american censorship to protect the church from american free speach but everyone knows that mormonism is responsible for these terrible events.

Texas family code, people! | 7:05 p.m. April 16, 2008

For all of you who are so outraged about what's happening,Google the Texas family code.
you'll see that everything CPS did was not only perfectly legal, but it was legally required of them.

We're not fools.... | 7:36 p.m. April 16, 2008

These people are doing their job, and there was good reason to do it. It's not all a bowl of cherries at the ranch. I think they are desperate to invite reporters in and give those rehearsed speeches, all with the sobs, clutching of foreheads, and so on. They are being dishonest in acting that way, and I think the children deserve to be raised in an honest, ethical environment. Obviously, it's the abuse and neglect that is the heart of the issue, but the playacting doesn't help.

I hope the brethren | 11:29 p.m. April 16, 2008

are aware of some these blogs by members , they are down right scary...i will keep an eye on my daughter of 13 as we travel the state..it pays to read between the lines.

Brennie | 11:16 a.m. April 17, 2008

I think its pretty obvious that the women have been put to the front to bear the consequences...where are the men?...this question was asked of them, and they all avoided the question...I think they have all been brain-washed, and its difficult to believe in this day and age that ppl can be so blind as to the nonsense thats being forced down their throats..

Amy | 12:16 p.m. April 17, 2008

What I don't understand is why are the men the only ones allowed to marry so many wives? Why are the women ruled over so dominantly? Did anyone see Larry King last night? The men wouldn't even come out!! They made the women speak and they wouldn't even answer questions about where their husbands are at! Texas has spent so much money on welfare paid to these people. If their lives are so pure, why are there "sex beds" in the churches? You could clearly tell these women are brainwashed!

I can understand them wanting to live apart, and worship God, but God condemns multiple marriages, and if they so worship God so much, why last night when they showed inside their house, are there pictures of Warren Jeffs everywhere? Why not pictures of God or Jesus?

I am glad I am not one of them b/c I would be danged having men tell me what to do whey they got to screw around with every other woman in the "ranch!" All this is is a big pimp parade and the children are paying the price!

Your right warren jeffs | 1:04 p.m. April 17, 2008

is closer to being a Pimp than a prohet , he was caught in a ride, digging the scene with a ganster lean, sun roof top , money in a bag ooh oooh

kristen A. | 2:53 p.m. April 17, 2008

I think this whole thing is ridiculous honestly...and i dont think god put men/women on this earth to have multiple spouses. That is insane...and not to mention a good way to spread AIDS and other STDS...apparently polygamist people aren't aware that this disease kills you and won't go away. If they were honestly concerned for their childrens safety they wouldn't let their children live that way either. I mean really how could a man live like that...and why would a woman accept that lifestyle.Im sure if they wanted to they could leave and choose to not live like that.

Dricks | 3:12 p.m. April 17, 2008

It is not just the men, it is the women who are the more spiritual and who most believe and want to practice polygamy, they have a deep sincere believe in mormonism, most of them like and prefer their live style and believe that it is God's will. Who can prove them wrong.

Hopefully the State of Texas | 4:00 p.m. April 17, 2008

"It is not just the men, it is the women who are the more spiritual and who most believe and want to practice polygamy, they have a deep sincere believe in mormonism, most of them like and prefer their live style and believe that it is God's will. Who can prove them wrong."

... can prove them wrong if part of their belief involves the seemingly necessary "lost boys" and forced marriage of young girls to keep the men meeting the 3 wife criteria for going to ,,, where is it? ... their version of heaven?

Beam | 8:50 p.m. April 17, 2008

The reason that all the kids were taken is because when they were asked who the kids' parents were, no one would answer. The kids said multiple women were their mothers, none of the men would claim to be the fathers, some of the women admitted that they said nothing.

When everything's on the up & up, families & parents have no problem identifying & owning up to who their kids are.

feminist? | 11:29 p.m. April 17, 2008

"The Texas authorities are doing the right thing - giving many who are too scared to speak up, an opportunity of getting out of that judgmental environment where you are not allowed an opinion of your own, you are forced to agree with old, perverted men."

Careful. You might be labeled a feminist.

V. Carter | 12:36 p.m. April 21, 2008

I represent two of the children. CPS painted with much too broad a brush in applying abuse to all of the children in the community. CPS needs to be held accountable for their actions and it is up to individuals to voice their complaint to make a change. This is just WRONG. It is my understanding that the children need and want to be returned to their mothers, but no one will listen to their story. Additionally, CPS complained to the Court that the mother's would not identify themselves, but then there was evidence in court that the mothers offered driver's licenses and birth certificates, but CPS said they did not want to view the documents. CPS has way too much power and usually very little education. They just have to have a college degree in ANYTHING and 90 days at their school, and then they are ready to investigate allegations of child abuse, interview child victims, and refer the case to law enforcement. Turnover is high. The living situation in the coliseum that I viewed was horrible, and the thoughts of the babies crying at night for their mothers is heartbreaking. Write your Texas legislators and Governor Perry! Please.

Playing God | 1:22 p.m. April 21, 2008

I think it was wrong for the Children to be removed from their person. This phone call could of been investigated while the children and their mother remained.They should of removed the men from the compound and questioned them until they got some answers. This is not abuse it's about a life style that America is outraged about. And yet they close a blind eye until now. Why punish the parents and the children. This could of been handled differently. It's shameful.

David | 1:59 p.m. April 21, 2008

Those of you crying religious freedom I want to ask what about the rights of the young girls these old perverts had sex with? What about them? Huh?

PunchDrunk | 4:23 p.m. April 21, 2008

FLDS is an authoritarian religion (um, like LDS?). Do you supporters have any problem with,
1) Women "reassigned" to new husbands?
2) First cousins unlawfully marrying producing children with genetic disorders?
3) The lost boys?
4) Mothers refusing to identify their children to authorities?
Perhaps this trauma to the children is a necessary first step to a life of liberty, or else the girls will become baby machines (18 kids anyone?) and the boys will be tossed out on the streets of SLC and Las Vegas. But then, I must be punch drunk.

Momof5 | 7:59 p.m. April 21, 2008

WOW-everything here is about how wrong the state of texas is- I think there are alot of people here not seeing the bigger picture--Underage girls being married off--HELLO!!! Being forced to mary older men, that is not religious freedom-ITS SICK!!!
Having no choice to make any decisions for yourself-what to learn , what to wear, what to say , how to live--again having no choices is not freedom of any sort.
While I am no way saying ALL these kids should be taken from thier parents, most should be because the parents are so freakin backwards in thier thinking. I mean, come on why so many lies to hide the truths??

EDD | 8:59 p.m. April 21, 2008

WHEN A RELIGIOUS SECT CAN ARBITRARILY BE RAIDED AND DESTROYED WITH NO PROOF, THEN THERE IS NO FREEDOM OF RELIGION IN THIS COUNTRY. ALL CHRISTIAN PEOPLE, AND INDEED ALL PEOPLE OF FAITH MUST STAND UP AND SAY "ENOUGH IS ENOUGH" ! IF THIS CAN HAPPEN TO THE FLDS, THEN IT CAN HAPPEN TO ANY AND ALL CHURCHES. THIS IS AMONG THE FIRST STEPS IN THIS COUNTRY'S DRIVE TO REMOVE GOD FORM OUR LIVES. THIS TRAVESTY CANNOT STAND.

i care | 11:23 p.m. April 21, 2008

Its not the living apart that cocerns me it is the way women are taught they are baby making machines and young boys are either thrown out or trained to abuse women no matter what age. all of these child are going to have too learn a different way f life. your family tree has to have limbs not just a trunk. Then everyone wonders why they have handicapped child .

TE | 1:02 a.m. April 22, 2008

Maybe a few of you ought to read the new book Escape by Carolyn Jessop.( a former member of the FLDS.) you may have different thoughts regarding religious freedoms when it comes to mental, physical and emotional abuse to women and children all in the name of God. Theyre religion is nothing but a mockery! I was disgusted that this has gone on in our society and we havent done anything until now! Those women and children are entraped in a world of hostile abuse of every kind. meanwhile remember you are paying for thier so -called religion with your tax dollars they fraud the government out of to support thier wives and children they dont claim. It kills me that alot of you dont call this abuse!! way to go Texas! Finally a state ready to stand up!

Harry Winsor | 4:26 p.m. April 22, 2008

Our Zionist Social Marxist government is OUT OF CONTROL and must be STOPPED!

PunchDrunk | 8:51 a.m. April 23, 2008

Remarkable. In one sentence poster Harry Winsor has framed the concern for the children at the TFZ Ranch (Harry, the Z stands for Zion) in anti-semitic and, excuse me, ignorant, terms. Uh Harry, "Social Marxist" is just a little redundant, don't you think?

Texas Veteran | 11:22 a.m. April 23, 2008

Perhaps we should wait on all of these comments until the truth comes out. Religious freedom is a right in this country....but not at the expense of our humanity. If these children have been forced into marriages and childbirth with multiple husbands....then they are at fault and must be dealt with. We do not live in the stone age anymore. Our ancestors had to practice polygamy(for lack of a better word) in order to create a wide enough gene pool to ensure the survival of the species. That is not the case any more. My personal opinion... we just caught a bunch of dirty old men. If you disagree... thank a veteran for keeping your right to free speech... FREE

Jennifer | 12:06 p.m. April 23, 2008

So typical of criminals to try to hide rape, pedophilia, incest, and polygyny (no polyandry going on here) behind the freedom of religion clause in the First Amendment. Their "religion" is a complete fabrication so these men can exert control over other humans whom they set up to be their sexual slaves. To the men in control, it's about one thing: them getting all the sex they want. So many cults boil down to just perversions of religion for overt or subtle sex purposes. That's not true religion, folks.

This is no religious freedom matter. It's human slavery, rape, pedophilia, incest, and polygyny. Government authorities have been studying and investigating this group for decades and have the evidence. The DNA results will further support their case. The children don't even know who their fathers OR mothers are. If this kind of behavior were discovered on a single-family basis, or if it were a stranger who kidnapped another person, everyone would be up in arms to prosecute and convict the perpetrator. However, throw on a phony "religious freedom" charade, and suddenly smart Americans fall for the trick. Unbelievable.

Jennifer | 12:25 p.m. April 23, 2008

> My guess is that they wanted to live apart so as not have their children influenced by the immoral world that we see around us.

Except the FLDS are the immoral ones.

> Maybe for the same reason the Amish, Mennonites, etc., want to live apart.

However, they don't. I know, as I live near Amish and Mennonites. In fact, the more conservative Amish encourage their young adults (older teens, early 20s) to jump headfirst into "Yankee" society for a couple of years to see what it's like, to determine if they want to leave the Amish life and join western society instead, which they are FREE to do, if they so choose. The Amish don't fear real education for their children and grant their children the God-given, human right of self-determination. This is 180 degrees opposite to your claim.

homskewl | 1:16 p.m. April 24, 2008

"What I don't understand is why the FLDS were so secretive about their lifestyle? If it was so wholesome and God-fearing and honest and wonderful, why not just live in mainstream society and just practice your religion like the rest of the Christians do?" <---This is why they do not practice in the open.

I think this is completely outragious. I cannot believe that everyone is touting about abuse of the women and children by these men --tell me something- what makes what the state is doing any better than the abuse they have supposed to be suffering from. I am not saying this is something all people could do but honestly this is something that I am sure the average person could not relate to. As far as teh dress- why is it considered so horrible that they are dressing modestly and not behaving so trashy. Here is another point- if this guy was fooling around with one or two other women no one would say a word-but because he is calling these women his wife he is a criminal. I think the world has gone mad.
Where is the 16 yr- there is none- it was a HOAX!!!!!

Rosalyn | 8:03 p.m. April 26, 2008

I agree that they should have removed the men to shelters and questioned them there and left the women and children in familiar surroundings. It would have been far more humane to leave the children with familiar caretakers in their own homes. However, there is a double standard operating in the comments. If this was a Muslim compound, how would America react? There would be no comments of "innocent until proven guilty" or "two sides to every story." America would have assumed that they were guilty, deviant and evil, simply because they were Muslims. As long as they are white and Christian (even perverted Christians), we are willing to see them as sweet, innocent and polite.

josh | 1:08 a.m. April 28, 2008

I think the the State needs to destroy the ranch, and takes the children away. These children have been abused and should be away from their parents. I was on the ranch today and climbed the fence to get a better look. If you saw waht I saw then you know that all the women and grown men should be in prison

Leftwingmuch? | 3:20 p.m. April 29, 2008

Homskewl, the children weren't removed from the encampment because their mothers were dressed conservatively. And yes, if he calls the woman his wife, technically, he is a criminal. You only get one (at a time).
Maybe do a little research next time. More than half a dozen girls 16 and under with kids or pregnant? Children who won't/can't name their parents? Women who won't name their children? Men who say . . oh yeah, NOTHING. Something is awry.
What these children are subjected to is not only ethically perverse, it's illegal. The CPS did its job. Have no doubt - if they did it wrong, they'll get theirs as well. Expand your mind. Come out of the box . . . it's ok.

PICKING UP THE TAB! | 8:31 a.m. May 1, 2008

I don't feel sorry for these mothers at all. Abuse comes in many forms. Turning a blind eye at what is going on is ABUSE. Not protecting your child is ABUSE. Handing over your young daughters and turning out your sons is ABUSE. We are not interested in what's in the best welfare for the mothers; just the children. I am sad to say that it is probably too late to reform a lot of the mothers in this case. But hopefully, the children can be "reprogrammed" to live a happy, healthy, and prosperous life. Oh, yea...and I am sick and tired of "PICKING UP THE TAB" for "child support" in the form of welfare! Get a job lady.

Editor | 11:43 p.m. May 2, 2008

I can't fathom how anyone could be so cruel and so stupid as to think the FLDS raid was justified, and that those poor children and babies should be separated even from their mothers. It's sickening to think that there are people who are cheering on this kind of vicious totalitarianism. What will they do when the police come for their children, all because of a fake phone call. Surrogate bullies, hoping to ingratiate themselves into the good graces of the police state - check out what happened with Stalin's flunkies - your fate will be the same.

ï¿½This and no other is the root from which a tyrant springs; when he first appears he is a protector.ï¿½ -Plato

Anonymous | 11:56 p.m. May 2, 2008

First of all the girls were never forced to marry at a young age. They were encouraged to wait but these girls wanted families. FLDS revolves around raising principled god fearing children above replacement levels unlike the fruitless immoral stubbleizing west. How ironic, if there was ever a time in history when polygamy might be considered it is now.

Concerned | 8:37 p.m. May 3, 2008

The YFZ Ranch religion seems to be designed purely to promote racism and to allow old men to have sex with underage girls.

Hopefully all of the adults will go straight to prison.

Debbie | 12:31 p.m. May 6, 2008

Yes, they used to attend public schools and started out as good people with good intentions. During the former "prophet", Rulon Jeffs' rule over the community, his son, Warren saw the opportunity to step in and take over and completely control every aspect of their lives. The women and children ARE abused, neglected, starved, beaten, sexually harassed and abused, and they have NO say over their own lives,or even their bodies. Among other things, Warren Jeffs outlawed the color red and the word "fun". What does this tell you. Wake up, people. Al Quaida killed thousands in the name of religion. Just because they operate under the guise of a church, does not make them God-fearing people. These children need out of there and the women need to be counseled. Most of them have never known anything different, and aren't allowed to investigate other means of living.

Carol | 12:58 p.m. May 23, 2008

The religious beliefs of the FLDS are the reason most mainstream Christians feel bad about what has happened. Imagine this: a cult of satan worshippers was living on a secluded ranch in texas in which polygamy was openly practiced.
How many people would then be upset about the children being removed? We would all be convinced they were better off in foster care than with the "devil worshippers" who practice polygamy.
Despite this group's profession of Christian faith, the practice of polygamy is the dangerous part of this socity. This teaches the daughters to believe they are less worthy of God's love than their brothers. This is the most dangerous aspect of this situation and has such long reaching consequences that the removal of this generation will not effectively solve the problem.

Carol | 4:46 p.m. June 22, 2008

After just reading the book "Escape" by Carolyn Jessup, I wouldn't believe a word of any flds members. They are all brainwashed and know nothing else. It incenses me to think about all the abuses going on in that fanatical religious sect..and the people trapped in it.

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