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Affidavit: FLDS raid spurred by girl's reports of physical, sexual abuse
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Larry | 10:14 p.m. April 8, 2008
How in the world can you people support these freeks?
Fox News | 10:34 p.m. April 8, 2008
Did anyone else catch Fox New's (local) coverage of this story? In the
segway to the story, the reporter said something to the effect, "While many
Utahns understand this story, Texans are troubled and bewildered by these
events."
Hu?! Just because I am familiar with the concept of polygamy doesn't mean that I am niether troubled nor bewildered by alleged abuse of underaged children by a deliberately insular "fundamentalist" sect.
Hu?! Just because I am familiar with the concept of polygamy doesn't mean that I am niether troubled nor bewildered by alleged abuse of underaged children by a deliberately insular "fundamentalist" sect.
Tex did right | 10:42 p.m. April 8, 2008
In what law does it say that man's right to religious freedom supercedes that of the rights of children not to be sexually used?
Comments continue below
Human Females and Human Males | 10:45 p.m. April 8, 2008
Larry:
It is easy to support them. Human females become capable of sexual love and conception at puberty. Human males remain capable of both until they die.
That's what God created.
Government is the most dangerous social organization known to man.
Anyone who denies these facts is the freek (sic).
It is easy to support them. Human females become capable of sexual love and conception at puberty. Human males remain capable of both until they die.
That's what God created.
Government is the most dangerous social organization known to man.
Anyone who denies these facts is the freek (sic).
To: CougarKeith | 7:04 p.m | 10:57 p.m. April 8, 2008
Your comments are idiotic and repugnant! You want to "reason it out"
with child abusing rapists? What if your daughter or grand-daughter was raped
and impregnated by a man more than 3 times her age? Would you want to sit down
and reason with him too? I doubt it...and the fact that a high number teens are
sexually active, (it is consensual and usually with someone the same age) It
does not make it OK for these grown men to have sex with them. All of these kids
can still be "modestly dressed, high moral children, who have a strong
faith in God" without being raped and abused on a daily basis. To say these
people are "VERY MORAL and Ethical People" is a complete
contradiction. There are numerous young girls under the age of 18 that are
pregnant, living in this "compound"...that is statutory rape and child
abuse! Doesn't sound very ethical to me.
Re: Human Females and Human Male | 11:23 p.m. April 8, 2008
Your comments are typical of how many twist the facts to meet their own needs.
My car is capable of going 150mph, does that mean I should go 150 everywhere?
Why not? it was created that way? You are a disgusting individual.
Re Cougar Keith 7:04 | 11:54 p.m. April 8, 2008
You have issues man. These women and children are being oppressed and treated
like slaves.
You make a blanket statement that most teenage girls have sex already and praise these people for at least getting their daughters married before having sex. That is disgusting and I hope you don't have any children. Some teenagers make the CHOICE to have sex, these girls did not make that choice which makes it RAPE.
Do you really think they have a strong faith in God? I think they have a strong fear of God, no love for him just fear. Scared to death of offending him. I guess you see nothing wrong with using God to control others as long as it fits into your warped ideaology of how things should be and people should act.
You make a blanket statement that most teenage girls have sex already and praise these people for at least getting their daughters married before having sex. That is disgusting and I hope you don't have any children. Some teenagers make the CHOICE to have sex, these girls did not make that choice which makes it RAPE.
Do you really think they have a strong faith in God? I think they have a strong fear of God, no love for him just fear. Scared to death of offending him. I guess you see nothing wrong with using God to control others as long as it fits into your warped ideaology of how things should be and people should act.
Mither | 12:10 a.m. April 9, 2008
I agree that the FLDS are guilty of child abuse in the cases of underage teens
forced into marriage. But should polygamy for consenting adults be against the
law. Adultry is also against the law. So is fornication There used to be laws
against homosexuality. But if we arrested all the people guilty of these
crimes we couldn't find jails enough to hold them all. I'm sure Texas
has a great number of adulterers. What hypocrits.
It is a slippery sloap we are on in allowing this wholsale breakup of families because of one unsubstantiated phone call. Who will be next. Texas Baptist zeroing in on Muslim's, then
Protestans, then Luthern's, then Catholic's and so on. If the rest of us don't defend the rights of the FLDS who are innocent it could be our religion that is preyed upon next. Or it could be atheist who come against all Christian's. The Founding Father's would never have condoned the wholsale kidnapping of so many children. Neither does the Constitutiton.
Texas, your overzealousness reeks of Bapists trying to "save" "lost souls." Your motives are suspect, your tactics deplorable. You are moving strikingly close to 1984, or a nanny state. Spare us!
It is a slippery sloap we are on in allowing this wholsale breakup of families because of one unsubstantiated phone call. Who will be next. Texas Baptist zeroing in on Muslim's, then
Protestans, then Luthern's, then Catholic's and so on. If the rest of us don't defend the rights of the FLDS who are innocent it could be our religion that is preyed upon next. Or it could be atheist who come against all Christian's. The Founding Father's would never have condoned the wholsale kidnapping of so many children. Neither does the Constitutiton.
Texas, your overzealousness reeks of Bapists trying to "save" "lost souls." Your motives are suspect, your tactics deplorable. You are moving strikingly close to 1984, or a nanny state. Spare us!
FALLACY HUNTER | 12:11 a.m. April 9, 2008
This RAID and FORUMS are riddled with FALLACIES!
What I wonder... | 12:38 a.m. April 9, 2008
is why the girl was treated by a doctor and sent back, if her injuries were from
abuse? As a medical professional, if I were treating a teenage girl who was
1)pregnant 2)already had given birth less than a year ago and 3) had injuries to
the torso...I wouldn't accept ANY story given for the accident at face
value. Particularly if the girl was from a secretive, closed society and had
two other adults sticking close to her. It is textbook for not letting her go
home until you get her alone, guarantee her safety, and get a social worker
involved to ask questions. According to the affadavit, the girl reported other
abuses...so there would have most likely been wounds/bruises/scars elsewhere on
her body. No "I fell down the stairs" story should have been
accepted. So why was she sent home and told "to rest"?
If there is/was abuse going on, it should be stopped, but this story seems more than a bit odd. I'm not saying that no abuse occurs in the FLDS community, but turning this into a general dragnet could really backfire. If the story turns out to be false, what happens when true abuse IS reported?
If there is/was abuse going on, it should be stopped, but this story seems more than a bit odd. I'm not saying that no abuse occurs in the FLDS community, but turning this into a general dragnet could really backfire. If the story turns out to be false, what happens when true abuse IS reported?
Heidi Appel | 1:02 a.m. April 9, 2008
These FLDS criminals are not "practicing their right to worship
freely." This is a group of pedophiles and misogynist abusers of women who
are wolves in sheep's clothing. It has nothing to do with worship or faith;
it has everything to do with control, domination of women, and sex for the
disgusting old men who force themselves on 12 year olds. FLDS
"practitioners" make me physically ill. They are hypocrites, tax
frauds, abusers, and worst of all, pederasts. They despoil all faiths by
pretending their own "religion" is the reason for their lifestyle.
Why, oh why can't Utah and Arizona move against these frauds with the speed
and efficiency that Texas authorities did? I pray for all the victims of Warren
Jeffs and his ilk, and I hope they can recover mentally and emotionally. The LDS
church should do much more to expose these scum for what they are, and to help
remove the stain FLDS puts on the true Mormon church. ( I am NOT Mormon, by the
way. I find the religion odd but the people kind and hardworking. THEY have
freedom to practice their faith.) May God help the victims and punish these FLDS
criminals now.
Human Females and Human Males | 6:54 a.m. April 9, 2008
One does not drive a high powered car 150 miles an hour EVERYWHERE, so sayeth an
anonymous poster. And it is correct that driving a car at that speed requires
certain conditions.
And one does not impregnate a 13 year old girl in a society with the conditions that it widely practices abortion, uses 13 year olds as throw away prostitutes, where men (teenage men as well) abandon their offspring of licentious relations, and where pregnant teenagers are told their life is ruined because carry another living human in their womb, and where the entire population is considered too infantile to manage their own lives without the intrusion of the State.
The FLDS does none of the above things that characterize the mainstream society that has decided to impose its will and moral code upon the FLDS. FLDS has a system for caring for these young wives, a cherished and honored place for them within a strong social compact, that by the way, has worked for hundreds of years, and thousands of years in other cultures.
The entire child protection movement of the late 19th Century was created to reduce prostitution and infanticide NOT to stop teenage parenting.
And one does not impregnate a 13 year old girl in a society with the conditions that it widely practices abortion, uses 13 year olds as throw away prostitutes, where men (teenage men as well) abandon their offspring of licentious relations, and where pregnant teenagers are told their life is ruined because carry another living human in their womb, and where the entire population is considered too infantile to manage their own lives without the intrusion of the State.
The FLDS does none of the above things that characterize the mainstream society that has decided to impose its will and moral code upon the FLDS. FLDS has a system for caring for these young wives, a cherished and honored place for them within a strong social compact, that by the way, has worked for hundreds of years, and thousands of years in other cultures.
The entire child protection movement of the late 19th Century was created to reduce prostitution and infanticide NOT to stop teenage parenting.
Re: Human Females and Human Male | 8:35 a.m. April 9, 2008
There are NO conditions in which it is ok to forcibly marry, rape and impregnate
a 13 year old girl. Do you not see that??? How can you possibly say they are
"moral" when they are knowingly breaking the law? Just becuse they are
physically able to breed, that doesn't mean they should. It shows your
complete disrespect for women as you view them as merely a tool for producing
offspring. You claim there are cultures in which this formula has worked...you
show me one where the women are not opressed and forced to do things against
their will. These cultures also breed the most depressed and abused women in the
world. It needs to stop not just in Texas but, worldwide.
Mither | 12:10 a.m | 8:44 a.m. April 9, 2008
They were not raided becuase of their religious beliefs. Quit trying to play the
persecution card. The were raided for child abuse and statutory rape. These
people are not "innocent" as you claim them to be.
Human Males and Human Males | 10:59 a.m. April 9, 2008
Yes, I see that there are no conditions where it is OK to forcibly marry, rape,
and impregnate a 13 year old girl. I never said there is such a condition.
Morality is not the law and the law is not morality. The FLDS have very strong moral codes. You may disagree with them. But if one are going to go around and proclaim your morality superior to others to the point that it should dominate and destroy another set of morality, one had better do quite a bit of introspection, comparison, and consideration before taking the steps of destroying the targeted culture.
BTW, the culture in which young teen women become wives and mothers is TEXAS of just a few years ago before they changed the law specifically to target FLDS, and currently, several other of the United States. Many states allow marriage of young women at the age of puberty (14, 13, some as low as 12) (notwithstanding the fact that due to better nutrition puberty starts earlier than it did only 50 years ago.) Many countries around the world do the same.
All societies force their citizens to do things against their will especially USA.
Morality is not the law and the law is not morality. The FLDS have very strong moral codes. You may disagree with them. But if one are going to go around and proclaim your morality superior to others to the point that it should dominate and destroy another set of morality, one had better do quite a bit of introspection, comparison, and consideration before taking the steps of destroying the targeted culture.
BTW, the culture in which young teen women become wives and mothers is TEXAS of just a few years ago before they changed the law specifically to target FLDS, and currently, several other of the United States. Many states allow marriage of young women at the age of puberty (14, 13, some as low as 12) (notwithstanding the fact that due to better nutrition puberty starts earlier than it did only 50 years ago.) Many countries around the world do the same.
All societies force their citizens to do things against their will especially USA.
Re: Human Males and Human Males | 12:08 p.m. April 9, 2008
"Yes, I see that there are no conditions where it is OK to forcibly marry,
rape, and impregnate a 13 year old girl."
and yet you still defend these people as having strong moral codes?
"if one are going to go around and proclaim your morality superior to others to the point that it should dominate and destroy another set of morality, one had better do quite a bit of introspection, comparison, and consideration before taking the steps of destroying the targeted culture."
Is exactly the goal LDS/FLDS Church. They want everybody converted to their "morality". IE: missionary programs, extensive marketing, meeting houses on every corner. But yet, when someone wants to change your beliefs, and tell you your morals are wrong, YOU are being persecuted and targeted. Right?
Go live in Afganistan and see what it's really like to have someone force their will upon you, and you'll realize the USA isn't so bad at forcing "their citizens to do things against their will" Give me a break.
and yet you still defend these people as having strong moral codes?
"if one are going to go around and proclaim your morality superior to others to the point that it should dominate and destroy another set of morality, one had better do quite a bit of introspection, comparison, and consideration before taking the steps of destroying the targeted culture."
Is exactly the goal LDS/FLDS Church. They want everybody converted to their "morality". IE: missionary programs, extensive marketing, meeting houses on every corner. But yet, when someone wants to change your beliefs, and tell you your morals are wrong, YOU are being persecuted and targeted. Right?
Go live in Afganistan and see what it's really like to have someone force their will upon you, and you'll realize the USA isn't so bad at forcing "their citizens to do things against their will" Give me a break.
Human Females and Human Males | 9:25 p.m. April 9, 2008
I am not a Mormon, but I do know several and have had their missionaries teach
me about their religion. Never did I feel pressure or even a hint of them
coercing me to convert nor were they rude to proclaim any judgement about my
decisions. I was 14 at the time I told them their religion was not for me, and
they simply nodded to acknowledge my decision packed up their material and left.
Either way, current events are not based on the FLDS desire to join the
Baptists in missionary work.
I see you have no idea what are morals as you continue to insist that beliefs that do not conform to your personal morality can not be morals. Go read the encyclopedia.
You also have skipped over the central point - honored teenage brides and mothers have been part of great and very successful societies for eons. The idea that they are absolutely an indication of malignancy is a very recent event in Texas and America, and upon analysis of biological and sociological facts has no foundation other than politically correct currency derived from femi-nazi propaganda.
I see you have no idea what are morals as you continue to insist that beliefs that do not conform to your personal morality can not be morals. Go read the encyclopedia.
You also have skipped over the central point - honored teenage brides and mothers have been part of great and very successful societies for eons. The idea that they are absolutely an indication of malignancy is a very recent event in Texas and America, and upon analysis of biological and sociological facts has no foundation other than politically correct currency derived from femi-nazi propaganda.
Re: Human Females and Human Male | 11:15 p.m. April 9, 2008
You've also skipped over the central point...To rape teenage girls is not
indicative of one possessing strong morals. I don't agree with raping
teenage girls. That's the point. If you think that means I don't
understand what morals are, you are a complete moron. Whether teenage marriages
have been sucessful or not, in reference to this story...These people do not
have a strong morality, as these teenage brides were held against their will.
The Texas authorities are not trying to force their morals on the people of this
FLDS community, they are trying to protect children from being raped and abused.
femi-nazi | 11:24 p.m. April 9, 2008
Human Females and Human Males | 9:25 p.m. Apr. 9, 2008
I don't know what books you are reading but, there have been extensive studies on the damaging sociological and psychological effects of child brides and teenage mothers. Perhaps you should get an updated encyclopedia set? Welcome to the 21st century.
I don't know what books you are reading but, there have been extensive studies on the damaging sociological and psychological effects of child brides and teenage mothers. Perhaps you should get an updated encyclopedia set? Welcome to the 21st century.
Scott | 7:14 a.m. April 10, 2008
If the FLDS leader did not break the law then they should be open and truthfull
during the investigation. Lets DNA test all the children and all adults in this
compound and sort out what relly is going on in this compound. Those adults
getting young girls pregnant should be thrown in jail.
I wonder how many in this cult are accepting government aid in the form of welfare?
I hope my tax paying dollars are not going to support this kind of behavior.
I wonder how many in this cult are accepting government aid in the form of welfare?
I hope my tax paying dollars are not going to support this kind of behavior.
Mark | 3:13 p.m. April 10, 2008
The Jehovah's Witnesses have settled lawsuits alleging church policies
protected pedophile men who sexually abused children for many years.
Frederick McLean is one of the most-wanted fugitives in the United States
Frederick McLean is one of the most-wanted fugitives in the United States
Bewildered | 9:37 p.m. April 15, 2008
400+ well dressed, well behaved children with no marks or signs of abuse, who
"sing and smile as if they have the upper hand" and want to go home.
Oh yes... I can see where the texas officials were right to tear these families
apart to protect the children. They're obviously in imminent danger. Once
they've spent some time in an overcrowded facility (where was that?... the
cattle pens at the local stadium?) and the Child Protective Services folks have
had some time with them we'll put a stop to that I'm sure. Then
we'll find good homes for them with people who will raise them right so
they can become pregnant teenage crack whores and drug dealers like the rest of
our society's children have the god given right to do.
Concerned in SC | 7:30 a.m. April 23, 2008
The whole concept of the FLDS could be a wonderful thing this day in age to have
a place to be away from the sins & temptations of the world and live a
virtuous life for God. Unfortunately this is a whole town of women and little
girls who are only there for the sexual pleasure of old men!!! Dont use
"Reproduction" as an excuse to sleep with these women. There are 400
children alone, I dont think they are close to extinction. If they are so
dedicated to God & frown upon sin what makes them think this is good? The
fact that they are using God to scare & brainwash these women into thinking
nothing is wrong is Blasphemy! Why not have your community just like it is and
allow these women to become of age (17 of 18) and have them marry these young
men in their age category, why are they having to marry old men & be
molested by the very Pastor of this church? Do they really believe that this is
right? No, they know this wrong. They are using the fear of God to have their
own sexual fleamarket!!
Concerned in SC | 8:14 a.m. April 23, 2008
I dont understand why everyone is so offended about FLDS being investigated. If
anyone else has been accused of breaking the law the cops will be on them like
white on rice, why is that any different for these folks? Regardless of how they
live, they live in America and must follow the laws of the land. The fact that
these folks are so secretive and someone has made allegations, I think they
should absolutely be investigated. What if these children ARE being abused and
no one steps in to help them. Its not that they are polygamist, little girls are
being raped! These women may say they are happy but I think its Bull. They are
used to this life and the outside is scary to them and they are scared of the
males and mostly God. They are taught that they will not go to heaven unless
they live this way. Maybe the TX police are these only women/childrens hope for
escaping torment. Being a Christian should not hurt! Did you know that since TX
does not require a birth or death certificate, there�s no
record of them existing, and they have the right to kill the women?
CENTRAL TEXAN | 12:02 p.m. April 23, 2008
GO The Great State of Texas for protecting the children. There sure are alot of
idiots out there. This isn't anything like Waco. And people have been
hiding behind religion for years.The officials did the RIGHT thing to take the
children out. What if they had not responded to the phone call, which by the way
is legit. The girl is there, and the others won't give her up,yet. And
there are several pregnant 13 and 14 yr old girls among the ones the state took
custody of. Way to go TEXAS.
Teresa H | 12:03 p.m. April 24, 2008
One of the mothers/ members who had escaped form the Warren Jeffs compound
years earlier.. told how she "allowed" him to take their babies..
BABIES.. and do what he calls "breaking them down". This was ... He
took the babies and spanked them and spanked then and spanked them.. then held
them face up under running water for a minute or 2..then jerked them out and
spanked them some more.. then held them under the water..and continued to do
this over and over and over..under the child was so exhausted, he literally
couldn't stay coherent or awake any longer. She said that this treatment
would go on for hours sometimes. And then he would do the same thing the next
day until he thought that they were "broke and controllable".
The mothers NEVER intervened. as they were scared to death for themselves and the ones that tried, would be beat and punished plus having their children taken from them and they and the babies would be "punished" more severely. so they kept quiet and "submissive.
The mothers NEVER intervened. as they were scared to death for themselves and the ones that tried, would be beat and punished plus having their children taken from them and they and the babies would be "punished" more severely. so they kept quiet and "submissive.
Teresa H | 12:12 p.m. April 24, 2008
The girls are kept around and "trained" as they are the Breeders.. The
boys are lots of times cast out, as they are not "needed" and their
worth is not as valuable. Because of the competition to the older men who will
breed the younger girls. and younger being as young as 10.
There is years of this kind of treatment and mental and physical torture. And the mothers are victims and the children are victims.. the child victims that become adults are as screwed up as the mothers and fathers that should have been there to protect them from any harm.. but it is a huge compound of abused victims..
And unless the strand is broken and we get people separated and try to heal them.. it will just continue on and on and on.. and never end.
There is years of this kind of treatment and mental and physical torture. And the mothers are victims and the children are victims.. the child victims that become adults are as screwed up as the mothers and fathers that should have been there to protect them from any harm.. but it is a huge compound of abused victims..
And unless the strand is broken and we get people separated and try to heal them.. it will just continue on and on and on.. and never end.
Teresa H | 12:13 p.m. April 24, 2008
Most of these children can not even tell anyone who their real parents are! And
THIS is what they consider normal?
Mothers that don't protect their children from abuse... by taking themselves and their children out of the hellish situation. or standing up for themselves do not.. and I repeat.. DO NOT need to have children. They can not take care of themselves.. let alone take care of their children.
To give them back would subject these poor innocent babies and children to more of the same ..because that is all they know and it is acceptable.. Fear.. suppression, abuse and pain...
Is THAT good family conditions for these children? Because that is what they have when they are there!
Mothers that don't protect their children from abuse... by taking themselves and their children out of the hellish situation. or standing up for themselves do not.. and I repeat.. DO NOT need to have children. They can not take care of themselves.. let alone take care of their children.
To give them back would subject these poor innocent babies and children to more of the same ..because that is all they know and it is acceptable.. Fear.. suppression, abuse and pain...
Is THAT good family conditions for these children? Because that is what they have when they are there!
Elaine | 8:49 p.m. April 28, 2008
I couldn't give a rip about what consenting adults do, but I do care if
children 16 yrs and younger are made to be part of this perverted sect. Am I
judging? I sure am.
Kari | 5:03 p.m. Oct. 20, 2008
If I remember correctly Poligamy started form a war or battle were a bunch of
husbands died. Men took in widows as second wives and took care of them and
their children. I am sure they justified this through the bible were many men
had plural wives. Practicing your own religion is protected under the
constitution. but just like you are not allowed to practice human sacrafice
in your religion because it infringes on others rights, so in fact does
"forced" poligamy and child abuse. As long as the practice is between
consenting adults and doesn't infringe on the childrens and wives rights
to life and the pursuit of happiness (and education) then the more power to them
to make this decision as (Non-brainwashed) adults who know that there are other
options out there for them.
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