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Affidavit: FLDS raid spurred by girl's reports of physical, sexual abuse
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These men are sick! | 3:26 p.m. April 8, 2008
They have so much control over these women and girls! Get them out of there!
Just Me | 4:00 p.m. April 8, 2008
Has the phone call been verified? That's the question I want to know, have
they found the lady? The actual victim in this? Anybody could call and say
I'm 16 and my husband beat me, this sounds very fishy to me still. I have
known these people, and I can promise you, I'm not able to envision any of
them doing that to their ladies. This sounds like it's a big plant,
I'm surprised it took them this many day's to just think up this lie.
As for all you who condemn and accuse, the truth of the matter is, whenever
people accuse others, they accuse them of what's in their own hearts.
BeeCareful | 4:13 p.m. April 8, 2008
You could be next... and don't kid yourself, you really could. You really
have no civil liberties today.
BTW: Why are they not raiding the Muslims who are living in open polygamy in Dearborn, Michigan? Why don't they take away the children of the hip-hop "bigamists" who impregnate a stream of young women and sponge off the aid to dependent children they get? Why do They only go after defenseless FLDS. They don't have the guts to take on the gang-banger culture who have many, many children with multiple women and then abandon them, except to show up once in a while to get money!
Shame, shame, shame.
BTW: Why are they not raiding the Muslims who are living in open polygamy in Dearborn, Michigan? Why don't they take away the children of the hip-hop "bigamists" who impregnate a stream of young women and sponge off the aid to dependent children they get? Why do They only go after defenseless FLDS. They don't have the guts to take on the gang-banger culture who have many, many children with multiple women and then abandon them, except to show up once in a while to get money!
Shame, shame, shame.
Comments continue below
Mario Zapata | 4:09 p.m. April 8, 2008
3 of the 27 wives of Brigham Young were under the age of 18. Lets not be too
fast to call the kettle black
Think of the children | 4:17 p.m. April 8, 2008
I think what the Texas authorities have done is absolutely appropriate.
Certainly people should have the right to worship as they please, and certainly
consenting adults should be able to define the nature of their relationships,
but this has nothing to do with that. Safeguards need to be in place to make
sure children and young girls are protected from abusers and predators. In
these closed societies there is no way to assure the innocent have this
protection. I'm glad Texas put the best interests of the children first.
Utah has been "gun shy" since the Short Creek incident - I think Utah
authorities need to get over it and take a leaf out of Texas' book. Think
of the children.
Minority Report | 4:21 p.m. April 8, 2008
Minority Report anyone? There have been no crimes committed, certainly nothing
that will hold up in court, but their children are being ripped from their
parents arms anyways. They are trying to prevent future crimes rather than
anything that has actually occurred. This is appalling and a total breach of
every constitutionally given right.
This country is slowly tilting toward atheist philosophy and a general hatred for religion. When will it be too late before you are able to speak up? When will your children be taken into state custody because christians 'brainwash' their children into belief of their own perspective religions.
The slope is being greased, how far down are you willing to slide until you raise your voice in protest?
This country is slowly tilting toward atheist philosophy and a general hatred for religion. When will it be too late before you are able to speak up? When will your children be taken into state custody because christians 'brainwash' their children into belief of their own perspective religions.
The slope is being greased, how far down are you willing to slide until you raise your voice in protest?
I agree | 4:24 p.m. April 8, 2008
Their only life's purpose is have have children and obey their husbands!
This is a Democratic country and these people live in this country!
Odell Campbell | 4:25 p.m. April 8, 2008
Thank you Joseph Smith for this wonderful legacy you initiated. Was it worth
it? This is the price many are paying today for you license to commit adultery
with other men's wives and teenage brides.
This is the price of what is now D&C 132 which, for you, was nothing more than revelatory permission to "cheat on Emma" which has become the sordid and sick foundation for continued abuse on children and women by men not too dissimilar as you.
And this comment will probably be deleted by those who still revere you and turn a blind eye to the abuse you created.
This is the price of what is now D&C 132 which, for you, was nothing more than revelatory permission to "cheat on Emma" which has become the sordid and sick foundation for continued abuse on children and women by men not too dissimilar as you.
And this comment will probably be deleted by those who still revere you and turn a blind eye to the abuse you created.
Bor | 4:30 p.m. April 8, 2008
I have personal experience with this sect of poligimist lead by the Jeffs. My
brother took in a boy that ran away from the sect in Colorado City, then his
sister escaped, after being married off at 13 years old and then sexually
abused. Our family took her in at 15, then helped her adapt and put her in
public school. She is now off on her own and in college. She has done well,
but the mental trauma and abuse she took was disgusting. She almost had her
childhood taken away from her. They wanted to keep her uneducated and took away
her right to have knowledge. Sounds a lot like the dark ages or communism. By
thier fruits you shall know them, to much smoke in a small community not to be
fire.
Rich | 4:33 p.m. April 8, 2008
Yes, they found the girl who they believe made the call. She had ribs that had
been broken, allegedly by her 50-year-old "husband." I hope they give
him a cell that is of the size and quality he deserves and that they keep him
there long enough to reconsider acting out his "religion" in a
criminal way.
Its about children | 4:47 p.m. April 8, 2008
100 years ago was a different time and culture than this situation today.
Zach | 4:50 p.m. April 8, 2008
I feel horror reading about children whose lives are not their own and who may
never grow up to explore their own talents and abilities because adults have
made their decisions for them.
My best friend in high school was part of a polygamist family (her father joined a group near the Arizona border and was excommunicated from the LDS Church).
Frequently my friend wrote disturbing poetry about being tied to a chair and raped. I always just thought it was the overactive imagination of a teenage girl.
Now, I'm horrified to think it may have all been real. She now lives somewhere in the desert near the Arizona/Utah border, and I still wonder if I should have done more or should still yet do something to help her.
My best friend in high school was part of a polygamist family (her father joined a group near the Arizona border and was excommunicated from the LDS Church).
Frequently my friend wrote disturbing poetry about being tied to a chair and raped. I always just thought it was the overactive imagination of a teenage girl.
Now, I'm horrified to think it may have all been real. She now lives somewhere in the desert near the Arizona/Utah border, and I still wonder if I should have done more or should still yet do something to help her.
Appalled | 4:57 p.m. April 8, 2008
I'm appalled at so many Utahn's willingness to defend child marriage
and wife beating as a traditional American right that is threatened by atheists.
Sick sick sick....
Due Process | 5:02 p.m. April 8, 2008
When the men who created this country drafted the constitution, a fundamental
principle and an inalieable right was the right to due process. There is no due
process here. If one man married an underage woman, and abused her, that one man
should be prosecuted, and if found guilty, appropriately punished. However, to
punish hundreds of people, children and families for the actions of one man
reminds me of Nazi Germany, where Hitler decided that if you were a Jew, you
should be punished, regardless of who or what you were. Obviously, Texas has
decided that if you are a member of the FLDS Church, you should loose the right
to raise your children, regardless of who you are as an individual.
Just Me | 5:12 p.m. April 8, 2008
You know for sure that they have found her? All I've got is that that is
what she said in a phone call, as a matter of fact I just asked my sources and
they say "no, we haven't found any girls with bruises, broken ribs or
any other kind of physical abuse signs. So I'd like to know what your
source is. I'm here, as close as one can get, and about to shed some light
on these civil rights abuses. These poor kids just sing, smile and have a look
about them that they have the upper hand though it all.
Reformed Utahan | 5:15 p.m. April 8, 2008
It makes me so sick to hear so many defending the memembers of the FLDS church.
Many people who know very little about the LDS church already associate the LDS
church with polygamy. To support the FLDS church and their actions sends such a
bad message to those unfamiliar with what the LDS church believes.
Juliancho | 5:19 p.m. April 8, 2008
This people has been so much brainwashed that they think they are going to
Heaven, instead they are going to be casted out if they do not repent.
And do not blame Joseph Smith or other LDS Church's Leaders, because this people has nothing to do with the True Church.
And do not blame Joseph Smith or other LDS Church's Leaders, because this people has nothing to do with the True Church.
MG | 5:29 p.m. April 8, 2008
Nazi's? The Nazis weren't trying to go in an protect the rights of
innocent people from oppressors. What kind of a twisted comparison is that?
Since when is saving children from abuse Nazi-like? A more likely comparison is
to those who went in and rescued the poor Jews from the Nazis. Or do you
suppose that infringed on the Nazi's right to their own culture that
oppressed others?
I'm so glad Texas is delivering these oppressed innocent people. These people will have their due-process, but our country figures children that are being abused is an emergency that can't wait for their rescuing until that due-process comes about.
BTW, if you abuse your dog, they will take him away prior to you getting your due-process too.
I'm so glad Texas is delivering these oppressed innocent people. These people will have their due-process, but our country figures children that are being abused is an emergency that can't wait for their rescuing until that due-process comes about.
BTW, if you abuse your dog, they will take him away prior to you getting your due-process too.
C1 | 5:29 p.m. April 8, 2008
I agree that the Texas authorities did the right thing by following up on the
phone call. They received a call that made specific allegations related to
abuse... what were they supposed to do, ignore the call? They had enough
evidence to obtain a search warrant, so lets see where it goes.
ddc | 5:39 p.m. April 8, 2008
All these cults are is Pedophile colonies hiding behind "religion."
Made by men for men. What kind of a country do we live in where american
citizens are NOT allowed to leaves ""compounds?" What is this
Nazi Germany? Children are allowed to be beaten by these men? What kind of
country are we living in when we do nothing to see that such exploitation of our
citizens does not occur? Where children are forced to accomodate the sexual
needs of men old enough to be their grandfathers under the ridiculous
"spiritual" marriage.
Pedophiles will resort to anything, including hiding behind an abomination religion to get at young children. What losers and degenerates.
All these colonies have to go. If these men want sex, go find a girlfriend like a normal human being, lay off the kids.
Shame on all who condone this BS.
Pedophiles will resort to anything, including hiding behind an abomination religion to get at young children. What losers and degenerates.
All these colonies have to go. If these men want sex, go find a girlfriend like a normal human being, lay off the kids.
Shame on all who condone this BS.
Tai | 5:41 p.m. April 8, 2008
I DO NOT believe in the plural marriage that is practices by the FLDS (or
Kingston�s, Allred�s, etc), and I do
believe they are in error. However, I don�t harbor
feelings of hatred and malice against these polygamists like I see in these
postings.
I have lived much of my life in the Mid-West and the South, and for me, seeing a polygamous family at Wal-Mart or Chuck-a-Rama in South Jordan, is the same thing as seeing an Amish, Quaker, or Mennonite family at Shoney�s.
The Quakers, Amish, and Mennonites don�t practice plural marriage, but they do marry off they daughters while they are teens; still believe that the earth is flat; still teach that those who live off the communal reservation are sinful gentiles; and still believe that black people are offspring of the devil. Yet here in the Mountain West, we try so hard to distance ourselves from polygamy that we will do whatever it takes send otherwise faithful family to prison as if they are worse than murderers. No one in their right mind would say the same thing about a Quaker.
What gives? These children are probably worse off in State endorsed foster homes.
I have lived much of my life in the Mid-West and the South, and for me, seeing a polygamous family at Wal-Mart or Chuck-a-Rama in South Jordan, is the same thing as seeing an Amish, Quaker, or Mennonite family at Shoney�s.
The Quakers, Amish, and Mennonites don�t practice plural marriage, but they do marry off they daughters while they are teens; still believe that the earth is flat; still teach that those who live off the communal reservation are sinful gentiles; and still believe that black people are offspring of the devil. Yet here in the Mountain West, we try so hard to distance ourselves from polygamy that we will do whatever it takes send otherwise faithful family to prison as if they are worse than murderers. No one in their right mind would say the same thing about a Quaker.
What gives? These children are probably worse off in State endorsed foster homes.
Contrarian | 5:51 p.m. April 8, 2008
I can't believe no one has mentioned Waco? Have we all forgotten what
happened there? It was a report of child abuse that allowed Texas law
enforcement and the FBI to attack, shoot and finally incinerate a number of
allegedly "abused" children.
At first I thought Texas police were being taken for a ride by a prankster, but after thinking about their phony rationalizations at Waco I wouldn't be surprised if the sixteen year-old girl is their own creation and justification for removing the children of the much maligned FLDS.
At first I thought Texas police were being taken for a ride by a prankster, but after thinking about their phony rationalizations at Waco I wouldn't be surprised if the sixteen year-old girl is their own creation and justification for removing the children of the much maligned FLDS.
Re: Due Process | 5:59 p.m. April 8, 2008
Not only should the child-rapist husband, but so also should the woman who held
her baby while the girl was being beaten, the church authorities who sanctioned
the underage marriage, and the doctor who treated the girl and failed to report
the abuse, should all be given their due process...
and then be sent to prison.
What kind of alternate universe are you living in that sees this kind of behavior as acceptable?
and then be sent to prison.
What kind of alternate universe are you living in that sees this kind of behavior as acceptable?
Re: Just Me | 5:12 p.m | 6:16 p.m. April 8, 2008
"I'm here, as close as one can get"
Which probably means you're just as brainwashed as these girls were. I'm suprised you're allowed to even read the news paper. But I'm sure you've been told many times it's just the devil talking and not to believe it. Who's your source? Warren Jeffs? Your comments are foul and despicable. "whenever people accuse others, they accuse them of what's in their own hearts" I don't think these "accusers" have statutory rape in the own hearts. Good luck trying to hide behind your "religion" and trying to find these "civil rights abuses" How bout' the rights of these children?
Which probably means you're just as brainwashed as these girls were. I'm suprised you're allowed to even read the news paper. But I'm sure you've been told many times it's just the devil talking and not to believe it. Who's your source? Warren Jeffs? Your comments are foul and despicable. "whenever people accuse others, they accuse them of what's in their own hearts" I don't think these "accusers" have statutory rape in the own hearts. Good luck trying to hide behind your "religion" and trying to find these "civil rights abuses" How bout' the rights of these children?
Ben Williams | 6:17 p.m. April 8, 2008
What? Quakers don't believe any of the things Tai said. How about taking a
comparative religion class before talking such nonsense. Quakers are
pacficists, equal rights promoters who believe everyone has the right to follow
their own path towards enlightenment. They have never exploited anyone. Get your
facts straight
ddc | 6:18 p.m. April 8, 2008
I have nothing against consenting adults having open marriages. If that is what
they want. What i do have a problem with is forced marriages. What i do have a
problem with is forced marriages when it pertains to minor children. What i do
have a problem with is "church" documents that say a girl who reaches
puberty is to be groomed for said forced marriage. This is child abuse.
This is nothing more than contol over another human being for the sole purpose of sexual gratification of a pedophile under the "saftey" of a bogus religion. These are all bogus religions made by men, for men. Women and children are not possessions to be abused and beat and made to obey. That's why we have laws against such practices. As far as i'm concerned any of these religions that require the use of "compounds" and controls over other human beings, Amish included, should be subjected to the same laws as the rest of society. That they aren't is an offense to our consitution.
This is nothing more than contol over another human being for the sole purpose of sexual gratification of a pedophile under the "saftey" of a bogus religion. These are all bogus religions made by men, for men. Women and children are not possessions to be abused and beat and made to obey. That's why we have laws against such practices. As far as i'm concerned any of these religions that require the use of "compounds" and controls over other human beings, Amish included, should be subjected to the same laws as the rest of society. That they aren't is an offense to our consitution.
Barlow/Jeff vehicle description | 6:25 p.m. April 8, 2008
If the authorities are serious about finding Barlow and/or Jeffs, why
haven't they released a possible vehicle description and other places they
might be heading? Like to supporters in other states?
Ken Goddard | 6:37 p.m. April 8, 2008
There is only one word for it: disgusting.
Are your children safe? | 6:40 p.m. April 8, 2008
Are your children safe from being seized by the government?
Honestly, think about it. There has been a massive raid by Texas government officials upon a religious group called the FLDS (Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints). This raid is all based entirely on an unverified phone call claiming abuse of an individual on the YFZ Ranch. Upon this single unverified phone call concerning 1 person, the government has gone in and with no evidence whatsoever they have seized over 400 women and children and immediately torn them from their homes and turned custody over to the state before anything was proven. I thought that in America we are innocent until proven guilty? The women and children did not want to leave the ranch. They were forced into being "rescued".
A woman helping care for them said:
"The children were extremely well behaved. Everyone was polite. Everyone was nice, but they wanted to go home. None of the girls at any age had a blemish on their face..." Did you hear that? They want to go home, and of all 400 women and children, no blemishes...No abuse.
Honestly, think about it. There has been a massive raid by Texas government officials upon a religious group called the FLDS (Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints). This raid is all based entirely on an unverified phone call claiming abuse of an individual on the YFZ Ranch. Upon this single unverified phone call concerning 1 person, the government has gone in and with no evidence whatsoever they have seized over 400 women and children and immediately torn them from their homes and turned custody over to the state before anything was proven. I thought that in America we are innocent until proven guilty? The women and children did not want to leave the ranch. They were forced into being "rescued".
A woman helping care for them said:
"The children were extremely well behaved. Everyone was polite. Everyone was nice, but they wanted to go home. None of the girls at any age had a blemish on their face..." Did you hear that? They want to go home, and of all 400 women and children, no blemishes...No abuse.
MiriamS | 6:40 p.m. April 8, 2008
Tia, you couldn't be more wrong.
I was raised Mennonite, I wasn't taught that the earth is flat, I wasn't taught that black people are from the devil and all my Amish relatives who quit school after the eighth grade weren't taught that stuff either.
And when they get married, it is after a period of courtship, marrying someone they choose, not someone who is assigned to them. The youngest they get married is 18, when they are old enought to make the desicion themselves. So please spare me that garbage.
I was raised Mennonite, I wasn't taught that the earth is flat, I wasn't taught that black people are from the devil and all my Amish relatives who quit school after the eighth grade weren't taught that stuff either.
And when they get married, it is after a period of courtship, marrying someone they choose, not someone who is assigned to them. The youngest they get married is 18, when they are old enought to make the desicion themselves. So please spare me that garbage.
CougarKeith | 7:04 p.m. April 8, 2008
Way to take over 400 modestly dressed, high moral children, who have a strong
faith in God and take them away from caring mothers and fathers, so you can
teach them to wear "Short Sleeve" Shirts, Halter Tops and Tube Tops
and Mini Skirts and dress like 80% of the countries teens who look like street
walkers. That's the way to go Texas Child Protective Services! Raid a
"Compound" based on a Cell Phone Call which hasn't even been
"Verified"! I am really impressed. Most Teenage kids are sexually
active anyway, the Polygamous Group at least makes sure their teens are married
first! It truthfully makes me SICK that the "MainStream" with all
it's problems with drugs and underage drinking and teen sex, and violent
crime and gangs and ill eagle aliens in the country are concerned over a Group
of people who keep to themselves and are VERY MORAL and Ethical People. I have a
problem with "Polygamy" of under-aged teens, but why don't we Sit
Down at the Bargaining Table with them, and reason it out. That is what we
should do! This is ridiculous!
Mario Zapata | 7:06 p.m. April 8, 2008
100 years ago? Well 100 years ago when a 46 year old man marries a 15 year
old, - it was a 31 year age span. And I doubt that the 15 year old already had
children that she needed a husband to support.
Yes, raping teen age girls is wrong - and it was wrong 100 years as well.
It needs to be stopped. Go for it Texas! It is a terrible thing that a church started in the United States over 100 years ago.
Yes, raping teen age girls is wrong - and it was wrong 100 years as well.
It needs to be stopped. Go for it Texas! It is a terrible thing that a church started in the United States over 100 years ago.
No Justification | 7:20 p.m. April 8, 2008
This is no justification for either hitting a woman or forcing he to have sex.
No man can be called a husband who would do either. This freakshow cult is
clearly organized by men to be a sex Disneyland.
Contrarian | 7:47 p.m. April 8, 2008
There has been no evidence that the telephone call received was made by anyone
at the ranch. If they don't come up with the victim pretty soon they are
either going to look pretty foolish, or they may try to cover their gullibility
by creating a new "reason" for their invasion of these peoples'
homes and removal of their children. Judging from the letters on this article
most people would go along with a "revised" justification and approve
punishment of these people based on nothing more than media hype. As I said,
doesn't anyone remember Waco?
FYI anyone?? | 7:58 p.m. April 8, 2008
So I am glad everyone knows the LDS church at ONE time practice Polygamy but
guess what SO DID THE US PRESIDENTS!!!! Get over yourselves; you are obviously
not all knowing you know only what you want to. When Polygamy was made illegal
the LDS church stopped practicing it, what a surprise something that was common
ground for everyone was SO wrong for the LDS church to do even though they
stopped when the government made it wrong. IF you are ignorant in the true
beliefs of anyone shut up. The FLDS church can practice how they want to but
sexual activity among or with anyone under 18 is STILL illegal and when they
have 15 year olds that are pregnant obviously laws are being broken, there is a
reason the children won't give their birthdates they know it is illegal but
are taught it is ok.
Lynn | 8:06 p.m. April 8, 2008
This si far from waco.. if they can't come up with the girl they have
impregnated teens that are 13-14 years old that they now have as a result of the
arrest warrent. that will further there case!
It never ceases to amaze me how many pedophile supporters there are on these boards!
It never ceases to amaze me how many pedophile supporters there are on these boards!
Contrarian | 8:15 p.m. April 8, 2008
Lynn: It apparently doesn't occur to you that the phone call was a hoax and
simply amounts to a pretext for invading peoples' homes and removing their
children. Child abuse was the pretext for invading, shooting, and then
incinerating the children at Waco - this situation sounds a lot like Waco and it
isn't over yet.
ddc | 8:26 p.m. April 8, 2008
Texas was right to intervine
Lynn | 8:37 p.m. April 8, 2008
I could see if texas went in and raided and found absolutly no child abuse going
on. However they have to by law investigate ALL child abuse reports. If it
was your child, or neice or nephew that was being abused you would want
everything done to make sure that the child was safe. Now just ebcause this
group is hiding behind the religion, you think it is a violation of
constitutional rights.
Constitutional rights allow freedom to choose whichever religion you wnat. Howver nothing in the constituional rights says anythinga bout imolesting and impregnanting children ages 13-14!
And when they were investigating the initial child abuse they came across more and more abuse that they saw with there own eyes.
Let me ask you this. IF this group has nothing to hide, then why are they tampering with evidence, hiding kids, etc???
By the way, have you not even give any consideration to thema ctually having the 16 year old who made the complaint, but are not releasing any details, and acting dumb to protect her?
Go read the avvidavit at smokinggun forthe full details, and then come back and tell me they are in the wrong!
Constitutional rights allow freedom to choose whichever religion you wnat. Howver nothing in the constituional rights says anythinga bout imolesting and impregnanting children ages 13-14!
And when they were investigating the initial child abuse they came across more and more abuse that they saw with there own eyes.
Let me ask you this. IF this group has nothing to hide, then why are they tampering with evidence, hiding kids, etc???
By the way, have you not even give any consideration to thema ctually having the 16 year old who made the complaint, but are not releasing any details, and acting dumb to protect her?
Go read the avvidavit at smokinggun forthe full details, and then come back and tell me they are in the wrong!
The practical effect | 8:42 p.m. April 8, 2008
With the press being kept away from the site, without access to any of the FLDS
residents, with gag orders giving personnel the leverage they need to be
accountable to no one whatsoever, with the children being the target and focus
of interrupting influences by a culture bent on domination over other cultures,
what we have is a conspiracy to annihilate another culture in its entirety.
Cultural genocide under the canard of "save the children". Last time
child rape was used this way was from the mouth of Janet Reno just before she
incinerated 80+ people in Waco. Whereforart the next Timothy McVeigh? I think
he is one of the innocent boys rounded up by Texas Baptists to carry out a witch
hunt.
Angelo Frank | 8:49 p.m. April 8, 2008
Thank God that my local San Angelo, Texas authorities stepped in and rescued
these poor children and women from the clutches of the FLDS. We Texans do indeed
cherish the lives of these people that were abused by this terrible sect and we
intend to prosecute the predators to the fullest extent of the law.
Anonymous | 8:48 p.m. April 8, 2008
There is now a CRIMINAL investigation going on at the ranch
ddc | 8:58 p.m. April 8, 2008
What kind of religion needs to carry weapons (waco)anyway? Janet Reno blundered
in her handling of waco. That was then, this is today.
Many of the adult women, 136, were asked if they preferred to go back to the compound. They declined. Why does a church have documents stating that females at the age of puberty (13-14) will be spiritually married to adult males (age of consent in texas is 16, which mean these females were minors and in no way able to give consent therefore "forced" into a sexual relationship with adult men) to then engage in sexual relations to produce children.
These children are human beings, not animals for breeding purposes.
What does it say about our country if we allow abuse such as this to keep happening?
Yes, under law, all reports of child abuse have to be investigated. Law enforcement was within their rights to do so. Anyone who cares about children living under this kind of indoctrination for purposes of sex would see that the raid was just. Those who don't, do not care about children.
Many of the adult women, 136, were asked if they preferred to go back to the compound. They declined. Why does a church have documents stating that females at the age of puberty (13-14) will be spiritually married to adult males (age of consent in texas is 16, which mean these females were minors and in no way able to give consent therefore "forced" into a sexual relationship with adult men) to then engage in sexual relations to produce children.
These children are human beings, not animals for breeding purposes.
What does it say about our country if we allow abuse such as this to keep happening?
Yes, under law, all reports of child abuse have to be investigated. Law enforcement was within their rights to do so. Anyone who cares about children living under this kind of indoctrination for purposes of sex would see that the raid was just. Those who don't, do not care about children.
Anonymous | 9:03 p.m. April 8, 2008
Is it possible for residents of other states to foster some of these kids?
hilarious says | 9:09 p.m. April 8, 2008
So let me get this straight. A call comes into Child Services that someone is
being abused and almost immediately, in a small town close to the enclave, Texas
authorities were mobilized with literally hundreds of law enforcement
authorities, buses (1st Baptist Church?) counselors, etc.
Wow! These guys should have been available during Katrina. Or maybe, it was a set up, phonied up by the Texas authorities.
I'm not saying that the FLDS aren't doing some horrendous things, they probably are but here's my take.
It appears to me that one religious sect (Baptists) raided another religious sect to 'save' them.
It all turns my stomach.
Wow! These guys should have been available during Katrina. Or maybe, it was a set up, phonied up by the Texas authorities.
I'm not saying that the FLDS aren't doing some horrendous things, they probably are but here's my take.
It appears to me that one religious sect (Baptists) raided another religious sect to 'save' them.
It all turns my stomach.
Contrarian | 9:19 p.m. April 8, 2008
Lynn: The Branch Davidians were said to be "hiding" child abuse
behind their religion and the the Justice Department incinerated the children
along with their parents because they refused to leave the compound. President
Clinton and his attorney general, Janet Reno, claimed that the compound was
invaded and fire-bombed because children were being abused, but the head of the
FBI, William Sessions, disputed that saying there was no evidence of such abuse.
When the government invaded the Waco compound back in 1993, I couldn't help but think of the early Mormons and the attitude of the country toward them. In fact, the onus of cultism continues to dog Mormons leading to the not uncommonly held belief that Mormons still practice polygamy. One man's religion is another man's cult, but our Constitution is supposed to protect us from such heavy-handed governmental actions.
When the government invaded the Waco compound back in 1993, I couldn't help but think of the early Mormons and the attitude of the country toward them. In fact, the onus of cultism continues to dog Mormons leading to the not uncommonly held belief that Mormons still practice polygamy. One man's religion is another man's cult, but our Constitution is supposed to protect us from such heavy-handed governmental actions.
Angelo Frank | 9:31 p.m. April 8, 2008
Your stomach should turn 'hilarious says' when it comes to the abuses
to children and women that were likely to have occurred under the FLDS sect. The
Baptists did not "raid another religious sect to 'save'
them". I'm not a Baptist but your conspiracy theory is really out
there.
Irate in California | 9:44 p.m. April 8, 2008
I think it's interesting that everyone is quick to point out that the
"early Mormons" practiced polygamy under the guise of "practicing
their religious beliefs"-but the early Mormon "pioneers" did not
endorse child abuse, nor did they endorse sexually & emotionally abusing
young girls into marrying men against their will. Polygamy was instilled to help
young families who would not have survived if left alone. For the FLDS leaders,
it is just an excuse to exercise their right of dominion over fearfull,dutiful
young women who were never taught oherwise. There is no reasoning with these
leaders. They must be held accountable for their actions. They are not
"exempt" from the law. They might think they have "religous
freedom" to do as they please-but everyone in this country is accountable
for their actions-whether it be in this life, or the next.
Polygamy didn't start in the US | 9:51 p.m. April 8, 2008
Mario...not sure where you are getting your facts. If you have ever read the
bible...you would know that many a prophet (Moses, Abraham and Jacob) practiced
polygamy thousands of years ago. It is also still going on in the middle
east...which has been around a lot longer than the United States. In regards to
Brigham Young's wives under 18, you aren't trying to compare laws and
social norms from today and the 1860's are you? Apples and organges.
Lynn | 9:47 p.m. April 8, 2008
Contrarian:
I am sure it was not the intention for the government to insisnerate the childen.
Why are you defending child abuse??? yes they may not ahve found the child who did the initial compalint, but when they went in to verify this womans story then they found other accounts of child bause.
I am sure it was not the intention for the government to insisnerate the childen.
Why are you defending child abuse??? yes they may not ahve found the child who did the initial compalint, but when they went in to verify this womans story then they found other accounts of child bause.
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