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FLDS roundup is largest since Waco standoff; 401 children may be placed in foster homes
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FLDS Male Strategy | 7:22 p.m. April 7, 2008
To answer some of the comments regarding why the men of the FLDS Church continue
to marry girls in the 14-16 year old range and continue to get themselves in
trouble with the law: seriously folks, that's simple. How many women over
the age of 18 even without a formal education would want to marry a 40-60 year
old man with 25 kids? Once the parents loose control over the woman, she'll
begin to think and act on her own. I know there would be some gals who would
choose what they believed to be a "higher calling" in the culture of
polygamy no matter how old they be. But, the chances for this lifestyle and
closed society to continue would diminish greatly if the woman, err girl,
didn't have two or three kids and was thoroughly expunged of hope for any
other life by the time she was 18.
Rebekah | 7:25 p.m. April 7, 2008
If 401 children can be taken from a community in Texas and put in state custody
with nobody being informed of the alleged abuse or neglect that occured, it can
happen to you and your family, in your home, church, school, or community.
Think of it this way...
If one girl from your child's sunday school class called CPS and said she was being abused by a male church member we'll name "Dale"... or at least that's what CPS says happened.
So CPS goes in and can't find the girl but determines there are 18 children who are likely being abused as well.
So, they decide to tear all 401 children from their homes, church, and known surroundings for "questioning" and "assessments". Actually, that was a ploy. CPS is now keeping all 4
They determine that "Dale" is actually in Arizona on probation and yet they still don't go arrest him, but continue to use the search warrant as legal justification to do whatever the hell they please. Because hey -- everyone hates your church. After all, some other church members and your church leader did something wrong so EVERYBODY in your church must be vile and evil.
Right?
WRONG!!!
Think of it this way...
If one girl from your child's sunday school class called CPS and said she was being abused by a male church member we'll name "Dale"... or at least that's what CPS says happened.
So CPS goes in and can't find the girl but determines there are 18 children who are likely being abused as well.
So, they decide to tear all 401 children from their homes, church, and known surroundings for "questioning" and "assessments". Actually, that was a ploy. CPS is now keeping all 4
They determine that "Dale" is actually in Arizona on probation and yet they still don't go arrest him, but continue to use the search warrant as legal justification to do whatever the hell they please. Because hey -- everyone hates your church. After all, some other church members and your church leader did something wrong so EVERYBODY in your church must be vile and evil.
Right?
WRONG!!!
Comments continue below
Get Real | 7:27 p.m. April 7, 2008
The FLDS are infamous for marrying 14 year old children to 50 year old men. If
this isn't child abuse, I don't know what is. Utah should do the same
thing to protect the children.
So Funny! | 7:27 p.m. April 7, 2008
To Karen: Stupid is as stupid does. Learn how to spell! To Mormons: Oh
really. Are you Mormon? Have you spoken with the "mainstream" Mormons
or the rest of the world? Didn't think so. To Concerned Christian:
What???? Are you blind? Did your dog run away and now you think it may be
hidden in the Temple? Give me a break!!!!
Tell me why they have to take all of the children from the compound. Why not take the married men away instead?
I've lived in Texas. There may not be too many deep thinkers. I pray for the children whom I believe are the victims here.
Tell me why they have to take all of the children from the compound. Why not take the married men away instead?
I've lived in Texas. There may not be too many deep thinkers. I pray for the children whom I believe are the victims here.
Anonymous | 7:29 p.m. April 7, 2008
Well well. One always hears how mainstream Mormons disapprove of FLDS and
polygamy. The opposite seems to be true on this site. Many of you seem quite
empathetic and supportive of the Texas compound and these people's right to
live the lifestyle they have chosen, i.e. coercing young girls and women into
polygamous marriage, producing children that they cannot support, etc. I
guarantee you the responses to this article would be very different on a
non-Mormon site...
Long | 7:27 p.m. April 7, 2008
Gary Moore
thank you. lets us, people be used. not only for them. but for us! we should matter and we will.
thank you. lets us, people be used. not only for them. but for us! we should matter and we will.
CitizensRights | 7:35 p.m. April 7, 2008
Carrying away women and children in a Baptist bus smacks of religious
persecution. A legitimate operation would have eliminated any semblence of
tainted motives.
As far as the "mothers leaving without coercion" - that appears to be a sneaky white lie spin. What mother, having the option to go with her child or lose all contact, would not go???
These state CPS people are as whacky as the FLDS. Most of them are thinking-distorted by their own abused history and now see abuse everywhere. Too bad we can't send them to Iraq, where there is a risk for agressive actions.
As far as the "mothers leaving without coercion" - that appears to be a sneaky white lie spin. What mother, having the option to go with her child or lose all contact, would not go???
These state CPS people are as whacky as the FLDS. Most of them are thinking-distorted by their own abused history and now see abuse everywhere. Too bad we can't send them to Iraq, where there is a risk for agressive actions.
Baptist Buses | 7:42 p.m. April 7, 2008
Has anyone noticed that the police are using Baptist church buses to transport
the people from the compound. Are we sure that these people aren't just a
bunch of Baptists wearing badges driving polygamist pseudo- Mormons out of
dodge? Sounds kind of familiar doesn't it?
Civil rights | 7:52 p.m. April 7, 2008
401 people detained? On what evidence? An apparently anonymous report?
Yes, I'm a Mormon, and no, I don't approve of FLDS practices that are claimed to be widespread. But more important than my distaste for the FLDS is the removal of 401 people based on one report. And I don't think we should minimize the importance of young girls being married against their will - this is simply wrong. But 400+ people? On one report? Why should 12 year old girls and older women be hauled away as the police search for a 16 year old? This is not a precedent that should be set.
Then there are the image issues, hauling away these people on buses marked "First Baptist Church". I realize that they may not have the resources to get other buses, but they must have realized how this would make them look - hauling away children from a religious compound in buses marked of a faith strongly opposed to their own.
The Texas police have handled this situation very, very poorly. It's hard to condemn the practice of marrying off child brides against their will strongly enough. But we must preserve our rights.
Yes, I'm a Mormon, and no, I don't approve of FLDS practices that are claimed to be widespread. But more important than my distaste for the FLDS is the removal of 401 people based on one report. And I don't think we should minimize the importance of young girls being married against their will - this is simply wrong. But 400+ people? On one report? Why should 12 year old girls and older women be hauled away as the police search for a 16 year old? This is not a precedent that should be set.
Then there are the image issues, hauling away these people on buses marked "First Baptist Church". I realize that they may not have the resources to get other buses, but they must have realized how this would make them look - hauling away children from a religious compound in buses marked of a faith strongly opposed to their own.
The Texas police have handled this situation very, very poorly. It's hard to condemn the practice of marrying off child brides against their will strongly enough. But we must preserve our rights.
GentleDanite | 8:03 p.m. April 7, 2008
The government can prevent future Eldorados by legalizing polygamous marriage.
There is no legitimate reason for a law prohibiting consenting adults to marry
whomever they please. Legalize it and the LDS can lift its temporary ban that
has resulted in the promulgation of these bizarre mutations of Mormonism such as
the FLDS. Allow consenting adults to marry. Prosecute child molesters and
welfare cheats to the fullest extent of the law. Get real.
Karl | 8:09 p.m. April 7, 2008
So if someone makes a phone call, the whole community is taken into custody?
Right.
We're all concerned about a 50 year-old marrying a 16 year-old? Sure. Why don't they simply arrest the 50 year-old man? And why don't you, who are LDS, speak out against prior LDS Church leaders who did the same thing?
This is called religious intolerance. And for those of you who belong to a "cult," as some call Mormonism, and are cheering on the Texas authorities, you're not too bright. You might be next.
There are a lot of people in this country who'd love to see the LDS Church shut down and its temple doors opened.
I oppose plural marriage and think these people and their clan are weird, but I also profess a belief that all other people should be allowed to worship how, where or what they may. And I think what is happening in this situation is horrible.
I'm grateful the people are cooperating, but am confident this will not end until their church and community are disbanded.
Having multiple partners is okay, as long as you don't marry them.
We're all concerned about a 50 year-old marrying a 16 year-old? Sure. Why don't they simply arrest the 50 year-old man? And why don't you, who are LDS, speak out against prior LDS Church leaders who did the same thing?
This is called religious intolerance. And for those of you who belong to a "cult," as some call Mormonism, and are cheering on the Texas authorities, you're not too bright. You might be next.
There are a lot of people in this country who'd love to see the LDS Church shut down and its temple doors opened.
I oppose plural marriage and think these people and their clan are weird, but I also profess a belief that all other people should be allowed to worship how, where or what they may. And I think what is happening in this situation is horrible.
I'm grateful the people are cooperating, but am confident this will not end until their church and community are disbanded.
Having multiple partners is okay, as long as you don't marry them.
shem928 | 8:25 p.m. April 7, 2008
What happened to our constitutional rights!!! God help us all!!!
Jen Shostak | 8:25 p.m. April 7, 2008
"A state welfare spokeswoman said Texas officially had taken temporary
custody of 401 children...As of now, they plan to place all 401 children in
foster homes. Meanwhile, law enforcement officials continued to search...for
more minors..."We do believe that there are other children still at the
ranch, and if so, they, too, will be removed...This is about children we believe
have been abused or neglected."
This is exactly what the Nazis did to the children of Polish intellectuals when Germany invaded Poland. The Poles were deemed unsuitable parents. If you have forgotten the movie, rent and watch Sophie's Choice.
Taking these 401 children away from mothers who are not physically abusive to them creates profound, long term emotional damage to the children, which will follow them into adulthood.
My heart is breaking for the children and mothers who will be separated from each other, by the children being placed in foster homes.
As a Polish American, I cannot watch Sophie's Choice. Never in my wildest dreams did I expect children to be forcibly ripped from their mothers' arms in America.
This is exactly what the Nazis did to the children of Polish intellectuals when Germany invaded Poland. The Poles were deemed unsuitable parents. If you have forgotten the movie, rent and watch Sophie's Choice.
Taking these 401 children away from mothers who are not physically abusive to them creates profound, long term emotional damage to the children, which will follow them into adulthood.
My heart is breaking for the children and mothers who will be separated from each other, by the children being placed in foster homes.
As a Polish American, I cannot watch Sophie's Choice. Never in my wildest dreams did I expect children to be forcibly ripped from their mothers' arms in America.
GentleDanite | 8:25 p.m. April 7, 2008
Why oppose plural marriage between consenting adults? What is the danger to
society? If you don't believe in purple sweaters then don't wear
them. If you don't believe in abortion then don't have one. And if
you don't want more than one wife, or don't want to share your husband
with another wife, then don't practice plural marriage. Why should it be
illegal?
farm girl | 8:41 p.m. April 7, 2008
I am proud of Texas, hope people will realize the women were treated lik the
muslim and Taliban women. yes here in america, you go Texas
CitizensRights | 8:38 p.m. April 7, 2008
To Anonymous: Perhaps you're not aware that the Qu'ran allows 4 wives
and that Islam is now larger than Catholicism and headed toward being larger
than Christianity. Your monogamy position is fast becoming minority.
Personally, I find polygamy repugnant, but I can't find any scriptural
edict against it in the Bible which only requires a necessity for a
"Bishop" to be the husband of one wife. For me to forbid other
consenting adults to be monogamous is just an exercise of power by me and my
state. Laws are not forever and change with the culture. We're not God.
If there is abuse then prosecute the abusers, but that is no excuse to persecute an entire community by assuming that they are all abusers.
Iraq turned into a mess because our leaders, in their ignorance, did not realize there could be no division of religion and state. One cannot make sucessful war against, or, destroy a culture. Cultures survive anything. For example, the American Indians have their own culture though the US attempted to educate it out of their children for a 100 years. The FLDS are no different. Attempts to destroy that culture will also fail.
If there is abuse then prosecute the abusers, but that is no excuse to persecute an entire community by assuming that they are all abusers.
Iraq turned into a mess because our leaders, in their ignorance, did not realize there could be no division of religion and state. One cannot make sucessful war against, or, destroy a culture. Cultures survive anything. For example, the American Indians have their own culture though the US attempted to educate it out of their children for a 100 years. The FLDS are no different. Attempts to destroy that culture will also fail.
PCH | 8:55 p.m. April 7, 2008
I am absolutely proud of Texas for doing what the states of Utah and Arizona
haven't had the guts to do -- enforce the law! Keep these kids out of
harms way -- protect these young girls from OLD men!
FarmBoy | 9:10 p.m. April 7, 2008
Actually, Farm Girl, I've had direct experience with the FLDS, as they
bought and harvested produce on our farm.
The girls were clean, modestly dressed, and though not quite as hard working as the boys, much more hard working than the girls in my community. The boys were cooperative and respectful of both their elders and the women. No tatoos, no foul language, no greed. What our community once was.
The real eye opener for us was that the Mothers were making the important family decisions. We had heard that it was like Islam and the men made all the decisions. Not so, we heard them confer with their wives and we watched men going along with the wive's decisions.
When it was time to settle, it was the women who carefully watched and approved the transaction.
The Texas CPS is painting with a wide brush what is likely to be an isolated incident. Hopefully they have lots of money to fight all the Pro Bono lawyers coming to Texas to make a name. It seems to me that Texas is a capital of executions and the cradle of George Bush. Maybe it needs a check mate.
The girls were clean, modestly dressed, and though not quite as hard working as the boys, much more hard working than the girls in my community. The boys were cooperative and respectful of both their elders and the women. No tatoos, no foul language, no greed. What our community once was.
The real eye opener for us was that the Mothers were making the important family decisions. We had heard that it was like Islam and the men made all the decisions. Not so, we heard them confer with their wives and we watched men going along with the wive's decisions.
When it was time to settle, it was the women who carefully watched and approved the transaction.
The Texas CPS is painting with a wide brush what is likely to be an isolated incident. Hopefully they have lots of money to fight all the Pro Bono lawyers coming to Texas to make a name. It seems to me that Texas is a capital of executions and the cradle of George Bush. Maybe it needs a check mate.
Larry | 9:11 p.m. April 7, 2008
Go Texas
Donald | 10:05 p.m. April 7, 2008
How did we come to accept the government taking children out of homes because we
didn't approve of a people's way of life? What happened to us to think
this is good? Some of you must be pretty sick and twisted in your thinking.
This would have been abhorant in Soviet or Fascist states. But here in freedom-loving America?
This would have been abhorant in Soviet or Fascist states. But here in freedom-loving America?
BRAINWASHED | 10:16 p.m. April 7, 2008
"but I also profess a belief that all other people should be allowed to
worship how, where or what they may."
Last time I check, when one is brainwashed from birth its hard to "know" what to believe....
Last time I check, when one is brainwashed from birth its hard to "know" what to believe....
It makes some people | 10:21 p.m. April 7, 2008
Angry that Texas would raise the legal age of marriage to sixteen? Goodness,
you must like the fact that many girls have been victims of statutory rape! I
guess you think a girl below sixteen is accountable and mature enough to make
the decision to marry 50 year old men. Disgusting!
DeLaval Milker | 10:19 p.m. April 7, 2008
Occasionally, we dance around it bit never too close.
The idea that in the religious arena, free as it is from the burden of proof, that the diversity, especially at the extremes, suggests that people sometimes just make stuff up and sell it is religion. And that they have a less than noble purpose.
Not every religion can be 'true'. At least some of it has to be wrong. Honestly, some comes across as simply crap. Not every follower raised in ignorance, fear and isolation is a believer. No matter what they claim, I don't think anyone can be beaten to happiness.
Unfortunately, raising a dog is a priviliege in society. Time and again we prove, however, that any idiot can own a child.
The idea that in the religious arena, free as it is from the burden of proof, that the diversity, especially at the extremes, suggests that people sometimes just make stuff up and sell it is religion. And that they have a less than noble purpose.
Not every religion can be 'true'. At least some of it has to be wrong. Honestly, some comes across as simply crap. Not every follower raised in ignorance, fear and isolation is a believer. No matter what they claim, I don't think anyone can be beaten to happiness.
Unfortunately, raising a dog is a priviliege in society. Time and again we prove, however, that any idiot can own a child.
Enter Name | 10:32 p.m. April 7, 2008
BRAINWASHED wrote: Last time I check, when one is brainwashed from birth its
hard to "know" what to believe....
Oh really? So, anyone who has stayed with whatever set of beliefs instilled into them by their own parents is brainwashed? Then who is NOT brainwashed, of any religion?
Oh really? So, anyone who has stayed with whatever set of beliefs instilled into them by their own parents is brainwashed? Then who is NOT brainwashed, of any religion?
Prosecutor | 10:42 p.m. April 7, 2008
Kudos to Texas authorities for having the courage to conduct a
"by-the-book" rescue operation, even though they know it's likely
to ignite a nationwide firestorm of criticism.
Just to make it clear, the FLDS community is not some cute little anachronism that should remind Mormons of our roots. It's the polar opposite of the early Church. Rather than humble submission to God's will, rather than kindness, gentleness, meekness, and love unfeigned, the record shows a long history in the FLDS organization and leadership of cruelty and oppression, violence, underhandedness, greed, and lechery, as well as the obvious and open rebellion to God.
Their fruits.
And what's all the fuss about Baptist Church buses? I applaud the Baptists for standing ready to assist these victims of crime, just as we would do, and have done, in similar circumstances.
The bombast about storm trooper tactics and nutty comparisons to the holocaust aside, these 401 people are people! They are victims of generations of oppression! They deserve to be offered a way out!
Demands that they be returned to a life of forced marriage to aging pedophiles demean both them and our system of justice.
Just to make it clear, the FLDS community is not some cute little anachronism that should remind Mormons of our roots. It's the polar opposite of the early Church. Rather than humble submission to God's will, rather than kindness, gentleness, meekness, and love unfeigned, the record shows a long history in the FLDS organization and leadership of cruelty and oppression, violence, underhandedness, greed, and lechery, as well as the obvious and open rebellion to God.
Their fruits.
And what's all the fuss about Baptist Church buses? I applaud the Baptists for standing ready to assist these victims of crime, just as we would do, and have done, in similar circumstances.
The bombast about storm trooper tactics and nutty comparisons to the holocaust aside, these 401 people are people! They are victims of generations of oppression! They deserve to be offered a way out!
Demands that they be returned to a life of forced marriage to aging pedophiles demean both them and our system of justice.
Hello People!!! | 10:45 p.m. April 7, 2008
Do people really think that these 401 children are being placed in foster homes
without a reason? If the people that went into this group, went legally and
they found evidence of abuse, then they are doing their duty. If they were
hasty and didn't have proof and were acting on an agenda, well the law goes
both ways. We do not have the facts, we do not know what CPS found that
justifies putting all these children in foster care. I do hope that
understanding people will take these children, they are very protected from the
real world, they do not watch TV and have a distorted knowledge of what is out
there. I do not agree with the lifestyle, but I would hope that they are not
forced to change their clothing styles, until they want to, or their hair style.
Some may be very willing to make the changes and adapt to the outside world,
some will not and I would guess that some of the women that left have wanted to
get out. I can only imagine what has prompted CPS to remove all of these
children, but we will only know if there's a trial.
Lynn | 10:49 p.m. April 7, 2008
All I can say to everyone that is saying "this was handled so wronf...
injustice..... etc etc" Whe you go to school, and get your degree fro
Child protective services, then you can have something to complain about.
We all know that this is child abuse, and the reason we are not allowed to know ALL the details is because it would jeapordize the case. Grow up, and stop doubting things Because I tell you what. If your kids are ever abused, cps would investigate that as well.
This society is so corrupt, that we turn a blind eye to things we could not even imagine would be going on in teh world. But guess what?!?!! THEY DO, THEY ARE GOING ON. AND I HOPE AND PRAY NOTHING EVERY HAPPENS TO YOUR KIDS, THAT WOULD RESULT IN CPS GETTING INVOLVED, BECAUSE YOU WOULD PROBABLY CALL FOUL THEN TO
WAKE UP TO REALITY PEOPLE! CAUSE IF YOU DON'T THEN ITS GONNA BITE YOU IN THE BUTT!
From a former childhood cult abuse survivor!!!
We all know that this is child abuse, and the reason we are not allowed to know ALL the details is because it would jeapordize the case. Grow up, and stop doubting things Because I tell you what. If your kids are ever abused, cps would investigate that as well.
This society is so corrupt, that we turn a blind eye to things we could not even imagine would be going on in teh world. But guess what?!?!! THEY DO, THEY ARE GOING ON. AND I HOPE AND PRAY NOTHING EVERY HAPPENS TO YOUR KIDS, THAT WOULD RESULT IN CPS GETTING INVOLVED, BECAUSE YOU WOULD PROBABLY CALL FOUL THEN TO
WAKE UP TO REALITY PEOPLE! CAUSE IF YOU DON'T THEN ITS GONNA BITE YOU IN THE BUTT!
From a former childhood cult abuse survivor!!!
Wow | 10:52 p.m. April 7, 2008
I guess that the contributors to these blogs will never cease to amaze me. There
is so much vitriolic language being thrown around by everyone that I will leave
this page feeling hopeless and sad. I am not a supporter of the FLDS; but they
are human beings who love their families. I believe in a government of laws and
limits and understand that the DCP workers are doing their best. Everyone needs
to step back and make sure they are being rational and civil.
Lynn | 10:54 p.m. April 7, 2008
Why couldn't the children be intervied quietly in the compound??
Umm because that is were the alleged abuse is, and that is where the alleged abusers are, no child would speak for fear of there abusers catching wind of it and have serious reprucussions!
Umm because that is were the alleged abuse is, and that is where the alleged abusers are, no child would speak for fear of there abusers catching wind of it and have serious reprucussions!
Lynn | 10:57 p.m. April 7, 2008
What happened to protecting the children?!?! if your child was abused you would
want your child protected from the abuser. Get a life people and quit defending
child molesters!
If 50 year old men are married to teens under 16 that is statutory rape, molestation. We have seen several accounts, 18 of those children under the age of 16 are pregnant! which proves the theory that they were raped. Who gives a crap whether it is under the guise of religion. Kids do not deserve to be raped... and forced into anything they don't want to do!
so once again Grow up!
If 50 year old men are married to teens under 16 that is statutory rape, molestation. We have seen several accounts, 18 of those children under the age of 16 are pregnant! which proves the theory that they were raped. Who gives a crap whether it is under the guise of religion. Kids do not deserve to be raped... and forced into anything they don't want to do!
so once again Grow up!
Lynn | 10:53 p.m. April 7, 2008
quote
"The police officers who invaded the ranch should be charged for violating the first ammendment. apparently an ammendment has been made to the constitution allowing the government to prohibit the free exercise of religion!!!!! if it comes out that any of the women and children were so much as coersed to leave, then the police should be charged for violating the fifth ammendment, for they seazed property unlawfully"
The first amendment does not say the freedom to molest a child!
"The police officers who invaded the ranch should be charged for violating the first ammendment. apparently an ammendment has been made to the constitution allowing the government to prohibit the free exercise of religion!!!!! if it comes out that any of the women and children were so much as coersed to leave, then the police should be charged for violating the fifth ammendment, for they seazed property unlawfully"
The first amendment does not say the freedom to molest a child!
Anonymous | 11:02 p.m. April 7, 2008
Quote
"401 people detained? On what evidence? An apparently anonymous report"
Not detained in PROTECTIVE custody to keep them from being abused, learn to read.
"401 people detained? On what evidence? An apparently anonymous report"
Not detained in PROTECTIVE custody to keep them from being abused, learn to read.
Lynn | 10:58 p.m. April 7, 2008
QUOTE
"The government can prevent future Eldorados by legalizing polygamous marriage. There is no legitimate reason for a law prohibiting consenting adults to marry whomever they please. Legalize it and the LDS can lift its temporary ban that has resulted in the promulgation of these bizarre mutations of Mormonism such as the FLDS. Allow consenting adults to marry. Prosecute child molesters and welfare cheats to the fullest extent of the law. Get real."
That is not the point here! CPS took custody of these kids because it was not two consenting ADULTS it was one adult forcing a CHILD into marrige. Get a grip!
"The government can prevent future Eldorados by legalizing polygamous marriage. There is no legitimate reason for a law prohibiting consenting adults to marry whomever they please. Legalize it and the LDS can lift its temporary ban that has resulted in the promulgation of these bizarre mutations of Mormonism such as the FLDS. Allow consenting adults to marry. Prosecute child molesters and welfare cheats to the fullest extent of the law. Get real."
That is not the point here! CPS took custody of these kids because it was not two consenting ADULTS it was one adult forcing a CHILD into marrige. Get a grip!
Lynn | 11:00 p.m. April 7, 2008
CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS?? Are you kidding me? Since when does molesting
children play into peopls Constitutional rights?!?!
Lynn | 11:04 p.m. April 7, 2008
Why didn't they arrest the perpatrator?!? Ummm because he CANNOT be
found. He is on the run like a chicken! That should tell you all something
right there. If there was no abuse by this guy, then why does he not turn
himself in, to end this whole thing?? He is already convicted of the
following charges
"Dale Evans Barlow, 47 years of age, "Sexual Conduct with a Minor", "Conspiracy to Commit Sexual Conduct with a Minor" both class 6 felonies, and "Conspiracy to Commit Child Abuse", a class 3 felony. "
He is on FELONY probation
As I would say.. Once a sex offender ALWAYS a sex offender!!!!!
"Dale Evans Barlow, 47 years of age, "Sexual Conduct with a Minor", "Conspiracy to Commit Sexual Conduct with a Minor" both class 6 felonies, and "Conspiracy to Commit Child Abuse", a class 3 felony. "
He is on FELONY probation
As I would say.. Once a sex offender ALWAYS a sex offender!!!!!
Kathy | 11:14 p.m. April 7, 2008
I agree and disagree with various aspects of the raid and NONE of us can make
any point as FACT until we receive more information. I am impatient to learn of
their reasonings for further and maybe more deeply mentally damaging these
children by the traumatic way in which they were removed. But one thing bothers
me the most: Why did they not remove the MEN (the alledged abusers) and leave
the women and children in their homes where they were sheltered, fed, clothed,
comforted and then interviewed? Why leave the men and terrorize those who are
victims as well as those who were not??
Solutions | 11:20 p.m. April 7, 2008
Anytime you have a lack of accountability, you will eventually get abuses, and
those abuses will get out of control. Warren Jeff was accountable to no one. The
men in this sect were accountable only to other men and not to their wives or to
the law which would be biblical. It is human nature for people who are not held
accountable for their actions and who are therefore allowed to act as though
they are above the law to abuse other people and to eventually get out of
control.
My workplace is like this in that an old man holds sway over more intelligent, harder-working, more professional people. Women who meet his emotional needs have the run of the place. Women who are honest and work hard are abused and suppressed by the favored women. Men can do what they want. This is a taxpayer supported entity but shrouded with secrecy even from agencies who have a right to information. The old man lies, and others repeat after him. He is seen abusing and lying and then is said to be "a good man." Women are told to "smile and keep quiet." In 2008. Human nature without accountability.
My workplace is like this in that an old man holds sway over more intelligent, harder-working, more professional people. Women who meet his emotional needs have the run of the place. Women who are honest and work hard are abused and suppressed by the favored women. Men can do what they want. This is a taxpayer supported entity but shrouded with secrecy even from agencies who have a right to information. The old man lies, and others repeat after him. He is seen abusing and lying and then is said to be "a good man." Women are told to "smile and keep quiet." In 2008. Human nature without accountability.
Englishrose | 11:46 p.m. April 7, 2008
Polgamy is against the law. Period. You may believe polgamy will be practiced
in eternity, but it is AGAINST THE LAW on earth and the Texas law officals are
protecting innocent children and doing their job. This is not rocket
science...this is the United States law.
LDS questioning now | 11:42 p.m. April 7, 2008
The LDS church knows too well what persecution is in our history. Our ancestors
were driven out of their homes, children taken from mother's arms. I am
ashamed to see the Church staying silent on this abuse of power by government
monkeys.
Where is the outrage from President Monson and church leaders on this matter? Every single child is abused? Every father kept prisoner at the town by armed thugs? And my LDS church keeps silent. Maybe it is time to leave.
Where is the outrage from President Monson and church leaders on this matter? Every single child is abused? Every father kept prisoner at the town by armed thugs? And my LDS church keeps silent. Maybe it is time to leave.
Adam | 11:52 p.m. April 7, 2008
Anonymous, are you posting your fathers name?
Just kidding. (I had to say just kidding so my post will go through). Some of you are quietly smirking and are happy that the state is involved not because of your concern for anyone, but your stinging hate for groups that have branched off from the "mysterious" LDS church. I might be over simplifying things here but you all know this has a lot of truth to it. Any chance to throw in your two bits on how retarded the LDS faith is or any faith that has branched off of it causes some of your eyes to light up...admit it.
Just kidding. (I had to say just kidding so my post will go through). Some of you are quietly smirking and are happy that the state is involved not because of your concern for anyone, but your stinging hate for groups that have branched off from the "mysterious" LDS church. I might be over simplifying things here but you all know this has a lot of truth to it. Any chance to throw in your two bits on how retarded the LDS faith is or any faith that has branched off of it causes some of your eyes to light up...admit it.
Children always come 1st | 11:55 p.m. April 7, 2008
Each and every one of God's children has the God-given right to be raised
in an enviroment free from the pressures of childhod marriage, mother &
fatherhood. To those of you who would suggest that the civil rights of FLDS
adults and their leaders trump the rights of these children -SHAME ON YOU!!!
Consider the words of the Saviour:
"But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck and [that] he were drowned in the depth of the sea." Matt 18:6
Consider the words of the Saviour:
"But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck and [that] he were drowned in the depth of the sea." Matt 18:6
Thanks Gary Moore | 12:03 a.m. April 8, 2008
on the comment about paraphrase "admit that you did it or loose you kids
forever."
I refused to sign the statement and I am still paying almost 20 years later. I was never charged. Onne of my children is being told that if he talks to me he will loose his kids. However my exhusband supposedly had the same allegations made against him but is free to have contact with all the kids. The child who CPS says was abused has contact with me and is planning to sue the state on the grounds that he was denied his right to having his parents in his life. We had no contact with each other for a number of years. I was told that he wanted nothing to do with me and he was told that I didn't want him.
CPS is evil. It messes with the kids heads and the parents. Children who are removed from their homes to suffer long term emotional problems. Some of the psychological problems most often diagnosed is: attachment disorder and PTSD(Post Tramatic Stress disorder regardless of how young they are removed from the home.
I refused to sign the statement and I am still paying almost 20 years later. I was never charged. Onne of my children is being told that if he talks to me he will loose his kids. However my exhusband supposedly had the same allegations made against him but is free to have contact with all the kids. The child who CPS says was abused has contact with me and is planning to sue the state on the grounds that he was denied his right to having his parents in his life. We had no contact with each other for a number of years. I was told that he wanted nothing to do with me and he was told that I didn't want him.
CPS is evil. It messes with the kids heads and the parents. Children who are removed from their homes to suffer long term emotional problems. Some of the psychological problems most often diagnosed is: attachment disorder and PTSD(Post Tramatic Stress disorder regardless of how young they are removed from the home.
Audrey | 12:52 a.m. April 8, 2008
I am truly shocked at so many people's willingness to jump to the defense
of this community. It is truly a "Utah" reaction. Trust me, know one
outside Utah is defending the actions of polygamists. As a former Utahn who now
lives in California, I can tell you that polygamy continues to give a bad name
to our state. Maybe the Utah attorney general and others can take note of this
situation and take action against the many polygamous clans in our state - after
all, they know EXACTLY where they are and choose to turn a blind eye.
Keep in mind that these children were born into this community without choice and without an option to leave.
Keep in mind that these children were born into this community without choice and without an option to leave.
Vickie | 1:25 a.m. April 8, 2008
I too just finished the book by Carolyn Jessop,
Escape and Childs Bride. You too will say it's about freakin time the Feds have come in and done something to the Polygs. Way to go Texas, unlike Utah and Arizona who haven't done a thing about all the rapings, sexual abuse, physical abuse, porn etc. Those old men are all pervs and all I have to say is read Escape and you will never feel the same way about Polygamy again. My prayers have been answered for those moms and children, maybe they will do something about those in Utah and Arizona now.
Escape and Childs Bride. You too will say it's about freakin time the Feds have come in and done something to the Polygs. Way to go Texas, unlike Utah and Arizona who haven't done a thing about all the rapings, sexual abuse, physical abuse, porn etc. Those old men are all pervs and all I have to say is read Escape and you will never feel the same way about Polygamy again. My prayers have been answered for those moms and children, maybe they will do something about those in Utah and Arizona now.
child safety | 1:30 a.m. April 8, 2008
i do not believe this is a case of religious persecution. it is about the
safety of the children. i do not care to condemn them for their beliefs or even
for the practice of poligamy as long as it is between CONSENTING ADULTS, but it
was not. these children were being abused. I'm sure that not all 401
children were abused but they were all in danger. until it is determined which
ones were abused and which ones weren't it is not safe to leave them on the
compound. if a safe environment is established then the children will probably
be returned to non-abusive families. as to what many of you have deemed a
"prank call" any report of abuse MUST be invesigated. the fact that
they have not yet identified the brave girl does not mean that she does not
exist. if she was discovered she would hae been severely punished and might
never be found or perhaps they simply have not had a chance to interview all of
the many children. i applaud the decision of the Texas authorities in taking
this seriously and preventing further abuse of innocent children.
Benjamin | 2:12 a.m. April 8, 2008
My heart is indeed broken as I contemplate the situation facing these children.
They are completely innocent and enduring a terrible situation. I also feel
some sympathy to the parents. I have five children, and don't think I
could handle my children being taken from me such as this.
HOWEVER, there is culpability and responsibilty on the heads of these parents and church leaders. This has little or nothing to do with bigotry or true christianity. The law has been broken. Those who broke it understood they were breaking it. The constitution provides religious freedom, but not in an unlimited fashion.
To those FLDS members that are feeling horrifically persecuted right now, may I politely refer you to the words of a prophet who was the founder of your faith...
We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.
HOWEVER, there is culpability and responsibilty on the heads of these parents and church leaders. This has little or nothing to do with bigotry or true christianity. The law has been broken. Those who broke it understood they were breaking it. The constitution provides religious freedom, but not in an unlimited fashion.
To those FLDS members that are feeling horrifically persecuted right now, may I politely refer you to the words of a prophet who was the founder of your faith...
We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.
Great Comment Vickie! | 3:46 a.m. April 8, 2008
This is truly an answer to prayer for these precious children who have been born
into horrific, abusive families. Read ESCAPE by Carolyn Jessop and you will get
a picture of what really goes on in these polygamist compounds.
those evil Baptists | 4:17 a.m. April 8, 2008
"
Baptist Buses | 7:42 p.m. Apr. 7, 2008
Has anyone noticed that the police are using Baptist church buses to transport the people from the compound. Are we sure that these people aren't just a bunch of Baptists wearing badges driving polygamist pseudo- Mormons out of dodge? Sounds kind of familiar doesn't it?"
Are you SERIOUS!?!? They also used school buses from the nearby district. Do you imagine that the secular humanists have teamed up with the Southern Baptists to attack FLDS? The Baptist church also opened their fellowship hall to provide aid and comfort to the women and children, including feeding them and other basic needs. Do you really believe that Mormons are the only people on the face of the earth that do kind things without any agenda? Or should be be suspicious the next time Mormons do anything to help a community? Sheesh. Praise God for any acts of charity from any group.
Baptist Buses | 7:42 p.m. Apr. 7, 2008
Has anyone noticed that the police are using Baptist church buses to transport the people from the compound. Are we sure that these people aren't just a bunch of Baptists wearing badges driving polygamist pseudo- Mormons out of dodge? Sounds kind of familiar doesn't it?"
Are you SERIOUS!?!? They also used school buses from the nearby district. Do you imagine that the secular humanists have teamed up with the Southern Baptists to attack FLDS? The Baptist church also opened their fellowship hall to provide aid and comfort to the women and children, including feeding them and other basic needs. Do you really believe that Mormons are the only people on the face of the earth that do kind things without any agenda? Or should be be suspicious the next time Mormons do anything to help a community? Sheesh. Praise God for any acts of charity from any group.
Shocked and Sad | 5:15 a.m. April 8, 2008
Although I admit inadequate information to fully understand the situation, as an
American citizen I am shocked, angry, and frightened by the situation in Texas.
Although the right to raise our children is not explicitly guaranteed in the
Constitution, I see no more sacred right endowed to mankind. As far as I can
infer from the news reports, for most of these 401 children there are no
specific allegations of abuse, only "guilt by association" because of
the religious teachings of their parents. The six-month-old is in no immediate
danger, for example, except that s/he is being raised in a specific religious
community. That the government can remove children from homes, abrogating all
parental rights, because of religious association (without specific allegations
of abuse or neglect) is far less of a grievous misuse of government power than
the "taxation without representation" that led to the American
Revolution. Combined with the lack of transparency due to the gag order, I am
surprised that American patriots are not marching in the streets. What will
happen next? Rounding up Muslims because of something taught in their mosques?
Rounding up Christians because we might teach our children that abortion is
wrong?
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Marleigh Meisner, spokeswoman for Texas Child Protective Services, addresses the press in a packed room in San Angelo, Texas, on Monday. FLDS women and children were brought to San Angelo while multiple law enforcement agencies searched the YFZ ranch for an allegedly abused 16-year-old girl. Meisner announced that all 401 children from the ranch have been removed from their parents and are now in temporary state custody.
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Accused criminals are protected by constitutional rights. Accused parents in juvenile court have none. They are not presumed innocent, they are punished without conviction or even trial, and are given one option: confess and cooperate, whether you did it or not, or lose the children permanently.
An indiscriminate mass round up. 401 children in detention, and still counting! Hopefully this extreme action will blow up in the face of Texas CPS, just like it did for Gov. Pyle in 1953, and the problem of rampant child welfare agency abuse of families across this nation will finally get some meaningful press coverage.