Deseret News | LDS officials to meet with gay group

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LDS officials to meet with gay group

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Daniel | 12:31 a.m. April 9, 2008

I think it is a great thing for Affirmation to meet with Church Leaders to vent some of their frustrations. However, I do not think they will be very pleased with the results inasmuch as the Church is not going to change any of its current beliefs, doctrines, policies or procedures. I don't know what is so difficult to understand about the Church's position about homosexuality.

If there are any complaints about the Church being homophobic, such complaints are certainly about individual Church members and not the Church as an institution.

Is it homophobic to condemn homosexuality as a sin? you could argue that, but then any Christian who belief the Bible to be a standard to live by will be found on that same homophobic group.

I personally believe homosexuality is not a good thing, the same way I think pornography is not a good thing. I don't hate the people who practice it or watch it, I do think that engaging in such practices is destructive in many levels, including emotional and spiritual.

Freeman | 1:13 a.m. April 9, 2008

Moessers, the argument here is that homosexuals are seeking acceptance WITHIN Christianity, not outside of it. If an accepting society is all they are looking for, there are plenty of countries in the world that could accomodate their lifestyle far better than ours. But they are looking for more--they want to be accepted within the "confines" of the church, and in this case, the LDS church specifically. They want the (LDS) church to say it's okay to practice homosexuality. Fortunately, those of us who are "archaic" thinkers can rest assured that our ideals, standards, and values will not bend to society's ever-changing (mis)conception of what is right and what is wrong. You are right in that our mind-set is ancient. In fact, our mind-set existed as part of an eternal plan long before this world was created. One or two more generations of society will not change that.

Sagacious Inquisitor | 1:14 a.m. April 9, 2008

RE:Sagacious PT2 | 2:36 p.m.

What specifically canï¿½t you do ï¿½under lawï¿½? There are legal methods, excluding ï¿½marriageï¿½, of achieving what you deprive yourself of by choosing to be homosexual. Historically, marriage sanctioned sexual activity and protected human reproduction. Unmarried sexual activity is outlawed. Your bedroom interests no one. The historically validated sanctity of marriage does.

If youï¿½re not a pedophile, none should label you thusly.

You didnï¿½t say anyone should remain silent, but, you railed against the ï¿½all knowingï¿½ who promote constitutional amendments limiting your ï¿½rightsï¿½. Correctly, those who feel strongly should pursue amendments. ï¿½Constitutional rightsï¿½ are extant only when codified. Each agenda can be pursued; neither should call for silencing the other. Nor should either posture as the ï¿½more righteousï¿½.

When you suffered physical violence, did you press charges under existing ï¿½assaultï¿½ laws? Those laws protect you evenly as they protect me. Iï¿½m as much minority as you. Had I suffered assault, Iï¿½d surely have proceeded under the ï¿½evenï¿½ law seeking justice. Why do you need ï¿½specialï¿½ protection? Thereï¿½s no need of any ï¿½specialï¿½ law to protect you. To pretend such is cowardly.

No, Iï¿½d settle only for even laws, with justifiable purposes. No ï¿½specialï¿½ laws.

Comments continue below

Betsy | 3:33 a.m. April 9, 2008

President Monson and the LDS church are seeking bridges. They will not change their doctrine but they can do much to integrate those who are willing to abide by the law of chastity. 1/3 of the adult membership is single. Whether someone is attracted to the opposite sex or the same sex both are bound by the law of chastity. That is if you believe in the law of chastity to start with.

Ryan | 7:34 a.m. April 9, 2008

Well, I wasn't going to submit another comment but after seeing all the nasty remarks, thank you for those that are at least open to gays talking with church leadership, I have determined that seeing the nastiness that has been put forth, leaving the church was the right thing. I do not see the Christlike love that so many purport in church meetings. I see very little in the way of actions and often times the words spoken show the true person underneath. It is interested to see that those that speak so nastily about gays do not want to put their name on, but rather some moniker.

I am not ashamed of who I am nor am I ashamed of the gospel, what I am ashamed of is the members of the church acting like they are and making assumptions that are not there to be made.

President Monson is the current prophet, sustained in a solemn assembly on Saturday morning. It is under his direction that the meeting was arranged after a letter was sent. Who are any of us to question the prophet after sustaining him or was there a secret meeting to subvert his calling?

Kit | 8:19 a.m. April 9, 2008

Utah Resident: Here's the deal: if homosexuality is wrong, then any demonstrative acts of that lifestyle are also wrong. BYU is a private university. Just as students would not be allowed to dress immodestly on campus, any act that hints at homosexuality is not allowed either. BYU will never change that. While you are correct, heterosexual students would not be punished for holding hands, etc, homosexuality is different. Displays of affection between the same gender is part of homosexuality. Since the Church does not support this lifestyle, all aspects are not supported. Period. However, I am glad that this dialogue is taking place. I would never want anyone to feel ostracized. These people are important and have value, just like me. And these people need to be loved, just like me. And we all can help each other.

Ty4417 | 8:57 a.m. April 9, 2008

Okay, well I would like to say that none of you have a choice in what you are. No one does! My first crush on a boy was in Kindergarten! I remember his name and we still attend the same High School! I did not choose this. Who would choose to be harassed and punished by the closed-minded majority of biggoted LDS members and non members?! No one would never choose this. I have been told many heterosexuals are scared off by gay activists, but twice I have been personally ASSAULTED by heterosexuals! I was raised LDS. I have learned over time that it is not all LDS members who are bigots. Only most of them. But this religion is about GOD AND LOVING ALL OF HIS CHILDREN!! Not your bigot Idea of religion!

Something to remember | 9:08 a.m. April 9, 2008

To all of those who are so worried about gays being allowed to married, or being accepted into the Church, just remember there is one place you can always go, where, according to their leader, there are NO homosexuals. That place is called Iran.

Former Member | 9:36 a.m. April 9, 2008

To all those who posted so many nasty, judgemental, self righteous comments here--THANK YOU! More than ever, I know I made the right choice.

former Utahn | 10:04 a.m. April 9, 2008

As a former Utahn, I just want to say that it is so nice to now live in a place where people just don't get so exercised by the gay issues. It is just another fact of life. Now many of you may believe that's because the rest of the world outside of Utah or outside of the church is just Sodom and Gomorrah. But I find people to be caring, Christian, and without the need to condemn other ways of life as immoral when it causes no harm to them.

Moessers | 10:42 a.m. April 9, 2008

Freeman: There are a myriad of Christian religions and organizations who openly accept homosexuals and allow them to live their life. There are also some that are still behind the times. God created homosexuals just as He did heterosexuals and all other life forms. Times are changing and will continue to change... and for the better as Christians behave more Christ-like and loving. Things are not always the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow.

Jacob | 10:51 a.m. April 9, 2008

I personally support gay marriage and the rights of gays to adopt. Being a active Latter-day Saint makes this difficult.
Does this mean I agree with their lifestyle? No. Does this mean I abuse and hate them? Absolutetly not. In fact, I just love people. It is their decision to live their lifestyle. I frankly don't care who people like, it is how they live their lives that matter.

Dave Crutchfield | 11:13 a.m. April 9, 2008

To Kit | 8:19 a.m.,

Once again, your Mormon simple-mindedness and black/white thinking is astounding.

By your arguments, because sex outside of marriage is wrong, "then any demonstrative acts of that lifestyle are also wrong". That means kissing someone to whom you are not married is wrong. and dancing with someone to whom you are not married is wrong.

Or how about this one, because religious fanaticism is wrong, "then any demonstrative acts of that lifestyle are also wrong". Hence, going to church is wrong. reading scriptures is wrong. paying tithing is wrong.

Give me a break. When are they going to start teaching you how to think clearly in Sunday "School" classes? Perhaps the use of the word "school" is a misnomer?

Freeman | 11:52 a.m. April 9, 2008

Moessers, your argument is changing (like your doctrine). Again, that's really great that OTHER religions and society accept homosexuals openly and tell them there is no sin. With so many options, why do you care what the LDS church teaches? If someone feels the church's view is oppressive, he/she can look somewhere else, not try to force change within the church. Demanding the LDS church change its view is nothing more than an incredibly ironic display of intolerance--the very thing you are reviling.

Your are right--THINGS are not always the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow. But GOD is, and so are His teachings.

Damon | 11:59 a.m. April 9, 2008

I am a gay man. I am also LDS. I've held callings, served a mission, attended the Temple. I am not a political issue. I am a Child of God who suffers and struggles with a burden thas is suffocating.

I have never acted on my desires.However,they are there and will always exist. Certainly in this life and perhaps in the next.

I currently do not attend Church because I am hated by many of the ward members.I've never shared my sexuality with the ward.How do I know? The topic of homosexuality came up once in Elders Quorum. I really got to find out how my brethern felt about me.I am hated.

I try to live the covenants I have mde. I am not perfect; clearly I fail in my attendance. It's too painful.

Where are those, who by covenant at baptism and weekly in Sacrament meeting, agreed to help bear my burdens? It feels like they're adding to it.

President Monson welcomes me back to the fold of God with open arms. Only, I don't attend Church with him. Do the local members do the same? Many of the comments here answer that for me. Overwhelming hate.

Anonymous | 12:30 p.m. April 9, 2008

Freeman,

You said, "THINGS are not always the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow. But GOD is, and so are His teachings."

So God's teachings about adultery didn't change? (except with polygamy)

And God's teachings about blacks holding the priesthood didn't change (except with the 1978 declaration)

You sure do claim that God's "teachings" change ONLY when it is convenient for you. That seems like the epitome of bigotry!

LDSHoosier | 12:50 p.m. April 9, 2008

Damon, I am humbled by your honesty and hope. If members near you strike you as more inclined to judge than love you, then that is unfortunate indeed. But there are others who, while perhaps not near you geographically, still love you nonetheless.

To Damon | 1:03 p.m. April 9, 2008

You say you've never shared your sexuality with the ward, yet you take offense at those in the ward expressing their opinion of those they see engaging in the homosexual lifestyle. They were not talking about you personally, if I interpret correctly what you wrote.

It was not a personal affront to you because they don't know about you. But, you took it personally.

I'm not homphobic if you're not hetrophobic. If you see only hate, I see a condition I neither understand nor can comprehend but wish I did. In the meantime I commend you for struggles with your attraction problem. Keep going you're on the right path.

If I could wish anything for you it's that you would have a less tender heart and accept that all are imperfect, including you and I.

May God Bless. Your Brother in Texas. And, no, I don't attend church with President Monson either, just the same church he's over. May you be blind to that which you view as hate.

No More Sorrow | 1:25 p.m. April 9, 2008

Damon, your comments really touched me because they were so similar to my feelings after my mission. After a period of such loneliness and heartache, I too stopped attending church. I met a wonderful gay returned missionary and for the past five years we have been building our lives together. I have never been so happy in my life. In the next life I may have a heart-to-heart with God. I believe he knows and loves me. In the mean time, I will continue to serve and love my fellow brothers and sisters. There is so much pain and sadness in the world--we should all strive to help ameliorate it. My heart breaks when I read about your loneliness as I know the depth and sorrow of your love for God.

Freeman | 1:53 p.m. April 9, 2008

Anonymous 12:30,

If you review the history of both polygamy and the right to hold the priesthood as recorded in the Bible, you will find that in different times and different places these practices have different applications. That does not mean that the doctrine has changed. In fact, the patterns show consistency. There is no such precedent for homosexuality in the Bible. It has never been practiced with the consent of God. Big difference.

I find your "convenient" jab completely inappropriate. How is this convenient for me? Is having a gay father convenient for me? Is having my family ripped apart convenient? Is it convenient for my mom, who had a nervous breakdown?

No, the convenience would have been to give in to societal pressures and "change with the times." Then, conveniently, my father could continue to "be himself" without the burden church-sponsored guilt. The only burden would have been on the rest of the family.

Damon | 2:12 p.m. April 9, 2008

LDSHoosier-

Thank you! I know that there are members of the Church who do love me and don't judge me. I wish that they weren't the exception.

That's where I think the Church can make a difference. Removing the stigma and prejudice surrounding this issue would make a huge difference. I believe in the last several years the Church has made huge strides toward this, but change is slow.

Damon | 2:44 p.m. April 9, 2008

No More Sorrow:

Thank you, I appreciate the empathy, it helps to know others understand the sacrifice and at what cost.

So many will disagree with me, but I am happy for you and I wish you and your partner the best! Thank you for posting back to me.

I know what you mean about that heart-to-heart with God. There is so little that makes sense regarding this. I'm glad you've found someone to be happy with.

Maybe one day for me there will be "no more sorrow". I'd just prefer not to wait until the next life for it, lol!

CougarKeith | 4:52 p.m. April 9, 2008

Re:StopDemonizingGays, I agree, we should not demonize a gay person, we should "Love Them". The act of Sex with anyone other than your husband or wife is A SIN! A Severe Sin! So we should realize we may be throwing stones and live in a glass house! I also will say, People who say they are gay or lesbian and act on the Sexual urges are committing SIN! Even thinking about it is Committing Sin, but then again seeing an attractive person of the opposite sex and thinking about sex with them is a SEVERE SIN in itself, right? I get so sick of people who think they are high and mighty and yet they themselves have many faults themselves, that really bothers me, but I am not saying I don't, because I do. We are to forgive ALL MEN and let the Lord decide their final fate, for if we don't forgive, the worse sin is found in us!

To Damon | 5:40 p.m. April 9, 2008

Thank you for posting your comments. My experiences have been so similar to yours. I have tried so hard for years to not take offense at comments made by church members. I don't think many realize how hurtful their comments are to those of us who a trying to live the gospel in spite of our sexual orientation. The constant comments, although not made directly to me, do hurt. People are saying these judgmental comments are directed only to those "living in the lifestyle." Well, deep down it still hurts because I know that I am just like "them" even though I have chosen to live a celebate life. Can people please understand how feelings like ours could be this way?

I don't think many know how lonely it is for us in a congregation that tells us to get married and have kids. If we don't do that, something must be wrong with us. In fact, we are sinning because we aren't married and having kids as well.

weightless skittles | 7:29 p.m. April 9, 2008

To the party that responded to my comments. My ancestors faced the persecutions. They were members of the early saints in the church. You truly do not know church history and how plural marriage was practiced. Please go to the church archives and B.H.Roberts-"History of the Church" The National Archives have given their seal of historical accuracy to the church's records. It is so clever and yet so hypocritical of those who think that their lifestyle MUST BE ACCEPTED. So much for freedom of religion. Those who hide behind accusations and intimidation to others deeply held beliefs, are themselves the true mean and hateful sort. Read Alma chapter 2. The followers of Nehor did that which you attempt to do today, subtly persecute while claiming kindness and victimhood. If you want to know where the Lord stands on homosexuality, ask him- sincerely after having studied ALL his words and counsel.

Kit | 11:42 p.m. April 9, 2008

RE: Dave Crutchfield

You took my words WAY out of context. Be realistic. All I am saying is that when two people of the same gender engage in public displays of affection, that is part of homosexuality, just as public displays of affection between members of the opposite sex are part of heterosexuality. But because the lifestyle of heterosexuals is condoned and permitted and that of homosexuality is not on BYU's campus and in the Church, gays and lesbians cannot do engage in the same demonstrative acts as straights! Simple as that. Don't make a mountain out of a mole hill.

Let's learn from each other | 12:44 a.m. April 10, 2008

As a heterosexual I recognize that gay people are sometimes mistreated. As a result of this discussion I will try to do better about treating them better and helping them to know that I accept them as people even if I don't like what they are doing.

In return I would hope that homosexuals can try harder to understand our point of view. Many of us heterosexuals feel very threatened by gay people because you are constantly throwing the issue in our face and trying to make us accept homosexuality as being all right. I live in California where it is practically illegal to say anything negative about homosexuality.

If you want to be accepted it would be better to back off and stop trying to force your agenda on everyone. Stop trying to make us change our beliefs. Stop calling us names because we don't agree with you. We need to do the same.

Recognize that while you may feel pain because you have been ostracized many of us also feel pain because our hearts and families have been broken because of homosexuality.

We do not want to live in Sodom. Please don't try to force us to.

Attention | 3:21 a.m. April 10, 2008

Please settle down all the liberals. God created Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve. We must take a stand against tolerating this liberal mentality. Respect peoples choices, but lets not let these ideas infiltrate our already demoralized society.

Amazing | 9:25 a.m. April 10, 2008

I just amazes me how members of the LDS Church feel that the world revolves around ï¿½The Churchï¿½ also on how they are so afraid to allow themselves to think outside of what the Church says it right and wrong. If any Church should be excepting of others beliefs or points of view it should be the LDS Church. They preach about how their ancestors survived the persecution from non-believers and how all they wanted is to be accepted and left alone to believe how and when they wish. Why canï¿½t they do the same? If you donï¿½t agree with ones point of view that is fine, but donï¿½t let those views take away others rights to live how they wish.

To Let's learn from each other | 9:49 a.m. April 10, 2008

Take a look at your comments again. Not everyone who is homosexual is trying to force an agenda in your face. Part of the problem is the blanket statements that are made when you (I mean you singular) lump us all together and blame us for what you don't like.

Many, so many, of us are living the gospel the best we can. Who knows, we may even be doing better than you. We don't know. All we are asking for is to put a stop to the public judgments that we experience.

Let's learn from each other | 11:53 a.m. April 10, 2008

I didn't say, nor mean to imply, that all homosexuals are trying to force their agenda. However an awful lot of them are. I am just trying to express why straight people sometimes feel threatened by homosexuals.

Certainly there are many people with same gender attraction that are in the church who are living the gospel as well as they can. I respect those people very much. Having had a homosexual relative I am aware that this is an extremely difficult temptation to resist for those who suffer from it. It is very damaging to the self esteem of those involved.

I hope that all people in that position know that there are many many people in the church who care and are willing to help. We won't reject you for your temptations any more than we want to be rejected for ours. We aren't perfect. I know that people aren't always understanding about this issue. We need to do better at reaching out to those who are honestly striving to overcome this problem.

Let's learn from each other | 12:07 p.m. April 10, 2008

I have one question in addition to my comments. You state that you are asking for us to put a stop to the public judgments that you experience. What specifically do you mean? How can we be less judgmental?

I'm asking this sincerely, not sarcastically. I really want to know. We are not going to change our beliefs about homosexual activity being a sin but if there is something that we can change in our behavior so that we can avoid making you feel like we condemn you or reject you, then tell us. We are willing to improve on that account.

Freeman | 12:12 p.m. April 10, 2008

To Amazing 9:25am:

Your characterization of members of the LDS church as people are "afraid to allow themselves to think outside of what the Church says is right and wrong" is completely ignorant and insulting. First, we are encouraged to question the doctrines of the church and find out for ourselves whether or not they are true. Second, our world does revolve around the church--it is a lifestyle, not a one-hour Sunday appointment. Third, we are happy to let homosexuals do whatever they want, except make us change our doctrine to accomodate their lifestyle. Therein lies the problem--many don't want to be "left alone," they want to CHANGE what we believe and FORCE us to validate their actions. I find it "amazing" that you can't see that.

Anonymous | 12:52 p.m. April 10, 2008

There are a lot worse things in this world then who a person loves. I don't consider loving someone a "sin". BYU should change their policies. What you do in you spare time outside of school is no ones business but your own. These comments make me sad seeing how close minded this state is. What happened to Love one Another?

Anonymous | 1:00 p.m. April 10, 2008

Also, I don't believe being gay is a choice. I know some people that wish they could change it. But you can't change the way you feel. I wish people would stop looking at it as a "disease" and try to "cure" homosexuality. That is insane.

Response to Anonymous | 1:53 p.m. April 10, 2008

It is a choice.

Wendy | 2:56 p.m. April 10, 2008

I am very excited by this news. No, I do not believe the church will change its stand and do not want it to because of pressure from gay groups. But we offer no reason for our gay brothers and sisters not to jump ship and go with the gay lifestyle. We offer no support, understanding or love. Just disgust and "youï¿½re a sinner". Who would stay for that? We need to offer alternatives. Right now a person with SSA can choose a life of loneliness and hiding their true feelings within the church or leaving the church and having love, respect and understanding and a relationship. When we offer an alternative such as support, respect for their struggles, honor for them staying strong and not giving in, lovingly being welcomed into our homes for fellowship, then we may help keep these beloved sons and daughters strong in the gospel. I hope this is a step towards that. Thank you so much Pres. Monson for opening up this communication. I love you and hope that this is the beginning of helping many fine people who need support and many families who are impacted by this issue. A Mom

the Ogre | 2:57 p.m. April 10, 2008

I am glad the church is opening an official dialogue with Affirmation, but I would like to point out that an unofficial dialogue has already been going on as through conference talks and church discipline.

It is very simple: the church must stay firm when any-person, of any gender or lifestyle, commits sexual sin. The church, however, must demystify positions about homosexuality. Many gays and lesbians feel insulted by recommendations to Evergreen or claims they have the problem.

I personally want the discussion to get away from sex. The dialogue must be in-depth avoiding superficialiality like BYU's honor-code and the teachings, doctrine, and policy regarding temple-attendance and temple-marriage. The church has been abundantly clear on both issues, but maybe a new one needs to be addressed: hatred versus love.

Latter-day Saints are called to love everyone. I must love the neighbors who drink often and party late. I cannot be concerned about the way they live, instead I must focus on my own personal righteousness. The general membership's love for every member must be affirmed regardless of how others live or have lived. Love and hope must be reinforced. Hatred must be avoided, when the gospel centers on love.

the Ogre | 3:05 p.m. April 10, 2008

To Ray:

I disagree with: "Diversity=Divide." The church and its members are very diverse. There is nothing to fear from diversity in the general population of the church. The gospel, however, is simple and applies to everyone regardless of who they are and how diverse the world and church is. There is no way for us to be carbon-copies of each other and nor should we pursue this.

Damon | 3:52 p.m. April 10, 2008

To Wendy and the Ogre:

Thanks to both of you. Wendy, you make an excellent point that I don't think many memebers understand. We need to feel love and be given a viable option. If the Church membership shuns you, then you feel justified in pursuing whatever lifestyle might seem best.

Ogre, you made a similar point. You are right, both of you. These are the attitudes that Church can promote and this is the positive and effective change that I hope to see happen in these meetings. The Church has been making efforts to move members more towards attitudes of love. We just aren't there yet. It reminds me of a passage from D&C, I think...

"I (God) will forgive whom I will forgive, but of you it is required to love all men."

To Damon | 10:24 a.m. April 11, 2008

Yes it is a passage from D&C
Its D&C 64:10

SLD | 1:16 p.m. April 11, 2008

"The Lord has not changed his view on the matter and neither can His church."

Principles do change and have many times in the course of the LDS Church history. That is why we have divine revelation. If you don't believe in divine modern day revelation, you are rejecting your own church and its values.

I won't hold my breath for gays to suddenly be welcomed into the fold, but what hubris to say you know what the Lord wants from now until eternity.

forgiving is not the same | 1:25 p.m. April 11, 2008

as embracing or condoning or approving behavior choices.

you can love the sinner but still recognize that he is engaged in (and declines to abandon) harmful behavior.

you can love and forgive the sinner without compromising your values and beliefs.

SLD | 1:43 p.m. April 11, 2008

Damon,

my heart goes out to you. I wish more members would take to heart the message of love and acceptance Christ preached. Hate, judgment and intolerance are always wrong.

I'm heterosexual, but I remember how hard it was when I was pretty much the only woman my age in the ward who didn't have children (infertility issues). I sometimes felt that there was no place in the church for someone who was different. It was very lonely. I can only imagine how much harder it is to be in your position. I hope you find peace - in or outside of the LDS church.

Choices, eh? | 1:50 p.m. April 11, 2008

If you don't like their rules, what's keeping you in it? Everyone brings up whether or not homosexuality is a choice or not, and no one brings up whether religion is a choice or not.
There is little difference between the attitudes of a religious person claiming with every breath that their church is true and a MLM marketer claiming their product/system will get rid of all your problems.
If the LDS church wants to think the way they do, let them be close-minded and leave. You won't miss much. I don't.

The Nature of True Love | 2:07 p.m. April 11, 2008

Many posters insist that to forgive and love homosexuals you must embrace and accept their values and choices.

That is not true.

Some parents find themselves faced with the heart and gut wrenching situation of a child who has "come out". Often they adapt to the situation by forsaking their previous beliefs and buying in to the "stepford wives" homosexual mantra;
(it is just the way he is.
there is nothing wrong with it.
he was born that way.)

But true love means never giving up on your loved ones, no matter what.

It is an incredibly delicate balancing act to maintain a loving relationship and lines of communication without becoming a facilitator.
(do you paste on blank grin and play nice for "commitment" ceremony pictures or stay away. etc)

You don't have to buy into the choices to show your "love", in fact true love will help you find the strength to never give up.

Don't give up hoping they will get back on a path to realize their full potential for joy and happiness.

Don't give up on the one's you really love.

Don't get tired and give in.

Damon | 3:29 p.m. April 11, 2008

The scripture says LOVE, not forgive. Similar to, Love thy neighbor. I think it's fair to say many negative statments given here aren't in the spirit of loving your fellow man or even in trying to provide any sort of real solution. Rather, these statements are driven by fear and hate.

No one is saying that you should agree or have to agree, but you can choose not to hate. You can choose to have compassion, you can choose to try and understand. And whether or not the "other side" chooses compassion and understanding the commandment is the same.

SLD- I know your pain. I have family members who have struggled through the same trial. Often, I've found the Church can be a very lonely place for those of us who don't fit the mold.

I appreciate your well wishes for my happiness.

Re: More to the Equation | 3:31 p.m. April 11, 2008

I am a single woman in the church and am expected to remain chaste and clean until I marry. The LDS church expects the same whether you are gay or straight. You are to be morally clean. A gay man or lesbian woman CAN go to the temple if they are not participating in immoral relationships and are trying to stay pure. If they are not partaking and remain morally clean, they are granted the same blessings and can fully participate in the church. Why is it that being gay somehow makes some people think they have a right to break the simple morality laws? It is not having homosexual tendancies that is the issue as far as worthiness is concerned. If you are not participating; if you have the urges and do not participate in the activities; if you are trying to live the laws of morality and chastity -- you are worthy. I liked what was said in "more to the equation" -- yes there is more then sex. But that is the LAW that is broken so often. I have to be morally clean; everyone needs to obey the same standard.

Damon | 3:36 p.m. April 11, 2008

To The Nature of True Love:

I appreciate your comments. I agree that loving (or forgiving) someone doesn't require agreeing with or embracing theri choices or values.

However, I don't think it means that you must constantly point out where you might disagree and how you believe they ought to change. This would only breed discontent.

Not giving up may mean, allowing them to make a choice and allowing God to handle it. Not giving up may mean loving your family member and their partner, even though you don't agree with the choice they make to be partners.

One of the primary principles of the gospel is agency...ones right to make a decision. If God is willing to honor that decision and love anyway, shouldn't we?

to Damon 3:36pm | 4:04 p.m. April 11, 2008

You are also right. I really do believe it is an incredibly delicate (and difficult) balancing act. And your comment about agency really is the final word. Our Father in Heaven loves us all, and loves us enough to let us have our agency. As earthly parents we can only do the same ultimately.

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